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TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
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Fun Shoe
Oh cool, glad to see you're tackling this now! The game concept piqued my interest when you first floated the idea, so I'll be interested to see what all the hype was about.

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TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
Clearly we should jump in the well. Trolls can't swim, so we'll be safe! :v:

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
Go for the kill. Nobody here is honorable, they don't care if we're craven or brave, just whether we satisfy their bloodlust.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
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Fun Shoe
It does not breathe fire; that rules out being a dragon or a red wyvern. It has fangs; that rules out being a vegetarian. Since it is not a dragon, it must be red or a vegetarian; since it is not a vegetarian, it must be red. But it cannot then be a wyvern, because a red wyvern breathes fire. Therefore, NOT a dragon, NOT a vegetarian, YES red, NOT a wyvern.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
Find the servants entrance. I have little faith in our climbing abilities, especially at night, and a disguise seems prone to us failing a bluff check (e.g. someone demanding a password). So it's either the servants or hoping there's another secret entrance by the cliffs.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe

Nakar posted:

Better question: How did our predecessor get past this part, if indeed she did? She clearly never rescued King Carlon.

"This [maze] is a creature of chaos. It may take many incarnations." Her version of the maze just bypassed Castle Perilous.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
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Fun Shoe
Ask it about the ruins. It presumably knows something.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
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Fun Shoe
The text for that flee option is some top-quality dry humor.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Fun Shoe
For all we know, those hints are relevant...to different paths through the maze than the one we are taking. It'd be entirely in-character for a game of this era to tell us information that sounds plausible but is in fact completely irrelevant to us.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Fun Shoe
As noted, it is totally solvable. Given that there must overall be more goats than sheep, but one of the two cousins gets more sheep than goats, the other cousin must get at least 2 more goats than sheep to make sure there's enough goats. If we assume that cousin has 1 sheep and 3 goats, then the cousin that gets more goats must get at least 4 goats, and at least 5 sheep. 4 goats and 5 sheep, plus 1 sheep and 3 goats, would satisfy all of the requirements except for the grand total being too low (13 instead of 16). Give the lesser cousin 1 more goat, then 1 extra goat and sheep to the greater cousin, to make the total come out right.

EDIT: update on previous page.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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ManxomeBromide posted:

Indeed, "oxymoron" is the word he seeks. Was the goal to rack up connection charges while the youthful player rifled through a dictionary?

I have to assume that was a guiding principle behind the design. Why else have the mazes (which are impossible to lose and thus far have not played any part in any puzzles), or failure states that consist of anything more than just booting you back to the start of the encounter?

Incidentally, this game reminds me at times of the "Mind Maze" game in Microsoft's Encarta CD encyclopedia. As I recall, it consisted of wandering a maze and periodically having people pop up to ask you trivia questions.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
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Fun Shoe
I love that you can pick inappropriate birds and it actually works.

Not that it gets you past the puzzle, but that the bird shows up.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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nweismuller posted:

Well, I know the crack will kill us. We are about as far from pious as it's possible to be, given our attitude towards the Mad One. The cliff, too- it seems unlikely we've mastered the philosophies in any sense.

I would guess the cliff looks easy to surmount from a distance, but as you start climbing, it gets taller; eventually you must become exhausted and fall off. The crack presumably pulls us down into Hell as we pass over it.

We have been told to trust in our valor. It's not a sure match, but my guess is that means we should go for the snakes, and hope our sword is up to dealing with a few thousand limbless reptiles.

As for the other trials, here's my guesses as to how they go poorly: The wall of flames reduces us to ash. The forest reduces us to chum. The brass river melts us, duh. We get seduced by the meadow and never leave it.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Waves of Steel
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Fun Shoe
Find Hassan, the Son of the Desert.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Fun Shoe
It is remarkably hard to fail this section. Huh.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Black Robe posted:

I still maintain the drinks thing is impossible, since I'm a snob, but apparently Chateau d'Alfar is the finest in the world.

There are nine gods but the answer the mask wants to hear is one.

As for the last, we're possibly meant to use that odd diagram from the burning river and then apply Pythagoras, but I think it's just trying to make us confuse ourselves. The base of the tunnel is 8 feet off the ground, so we just need a ladder a little bit longer than 8 feet. The exact amount doesn't matter, if it's longer it'll just have a shallower slope up to the tunnel.

The base of the tunnel is not 8' off the ground; that's just how high we can reach. Our protagonist has taken a measurement of a chord of the circle, with the two endpoints of the chord being two points that are 8' off the ground. With that 8' and the length of the chord (24'), we can calculate the radius of the circle, which is presumably what is being demanded of us here.

Also, this is not algebra. It is trigonometry. :colbert:

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Fun Shoe
What's that second screenshot there? A ladder? A spinner? Are the mazes finally going to actually be a puzzle in themselves?

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Step 1 of dealing with the snake is to not look directly at it. I don't suppose we have a polished metal shield?

We shouldn't try to attack it unless we've hit it with cold first; I fully expect a magic snake to be a match for a magic sword. I don't see any obvious way of using cold, though, short of taunting the snake into attempting some mountain climbing. So I guess invoking the talisman will be required for that. Thus:

> AVERT EYES
> INVOKE TALISMAN
> USE SWORD ON SNAKE

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Fun Shoe
We're going to make the third level of the Maze a paradise...by shunting all the nasty crap in it to the first two levels.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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What's not clear to me is, how did we know what order the geysers were in? Assigning timings to names is one thing, but assigning names to the order they're encountered in is another.

Seconding the suggestion to use Time magic here. Let's make like Fry and solve the problem in a matter of subjective seconds, except without the coffee hangover.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Fun Shoe

ManxomeBromide posted:

Come to think of it, if buckets work, then it's probably not a grease fire.

It's a really big grease fire, they need a lot of buckets to cover it.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Nakar posted:

Hell yes. We didn't pick up the Talisman of Chugotai to not use it at every opportunity, no matter how needless or dumb. :clint:

We Have A Talisman And Wish To Use It.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Fun Shoe
So I guess according to the giant stone head, we're a whale now? :v:

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Fun Shoe
Okay, the writing in that section was pretty funny.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Fun Shoe

Mad Jaqk posted:

Given that the second half of the dial puzzle can completely undo the first half, I was banking on RIPE being the final answer.

The lizardman did specify that he needed to derive a third word. Clever monkeys that are too clever get incinerated.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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oystertoadfish posted:

i guess the insects might be the good guys this time???

If I recall correctly, they worship the First Cause, which is at least not the Mad One. I don't remember anyone being mentioned previously as riding airships or using crossbows, so who knows what the other side is. But my guess is a highly technological species is unlikely to worship the Lady.

My guesses as to outcomes for our various talisman options:

Fire: re-enacts the Hindenburg disaster, regardless of which side you try to use it on.
Cold: seems unlikely to do much. Might interfere with the pterodactyls.
Wind: fucks both sides up.
Earth: it's a sky fight. What do you think this is gonna do?
Time: is too short of duration to alter things much, plus we may not be able to stop time for anyone but ourselves.
Spirit/Mind: Nakar already said these do nothing.
Lightning: kills some pterodactyls if used against them, or does the Hindenburg again if used on the blimp.

So I'd say lightning the blimp.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Fun Shoe
One of these days I'd like to see a story where the protagonist finds the Human City and goes to meet the Council of Humans to get aid on their quest.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Nakar posted:

Level Three: Sugar Cravings
In which we lose a footrace with a city, make a new friend or two, and embark on a quest to steal the greatest treasure of all.

This update is amazing. :allears:

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Fun Shoe
That rods puzzle is some bullshit, but the others were basically password checks. Which I guess is one way to encourage your players to fully-explore every area and therefore spend more time connected to (and paying for) Prodigy.

Still waiting for the crone's hint to be relevant though...also, if anyone in the Invisible Maze wants a name, "Sheltem" had better be an answer. :colbert:

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Fun Shoe
Ah, I see, the Moon of Madness is a giant bureaucracy. I wonder if we're going to see any references to Brazil?

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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I'm inclined to go with the nondescript passageway, on the theory that it feels the most out-of-place. But that's kind of metagamey.

The cake would be too vast to consume; we'd suffer coronary heart failure before making it through. The sword looks nice but who's to say we'd be its master? I bet it'd betray us. The beggar would honestly be my second choice; I don't think material riches are likely to be needed past this point, and charity is a virtue. The monster I bet we'd get into a shouting match with, get impossibly angry, and try to rip apart with our bare hands, with predictable results. The past glories tempts us to relive the old days rather than push towards the new; I agree with Omobono that we'd be trapped there. And the treasure chamber of course would turn us into an orangutan as well; where do you think the others came from?

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Fun Shoe
pride: past deeds
greed: treasure pile
lust: ???
envy: sword
gluttony: cake
wrath: French monster
sloth: ???

I guess sloth could be the featureless tunnel, which suggests we should go with the beggar.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
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Nakar posted:

This logic makes obvious sense, though in a game that does track state I wouldn't put it past these writers to have an "easy" solution that wastes the last of our money then put a tollbooth barring the path to Moraziel or somesuch. There're no alternate options in this instance, but it'd be quite a kick in the pants if there were!

Given that there's only one way to get to the colors section, they could still totally do this! And then gleefully kill anyone who claims to have money to pay the toll, because they're clearly cheating.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Fun Shoe
The only hint I remember about this is "The fruits add." Add how, or add to what, I don't know. If they added colors, then we'd just need the lime to convert black to green, but that seems overly simplistic. We smell alternating bananas and strawberries, so maybe we're meant to add those two together. Assuming the items represent a number line, that'd make bananas 1 and strawberries 3, so our choice should be 4, the peach.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
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Fun Shoe
What you do with limes is make lime curd. And then mix that with plain yogurt.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
Am I reading that correctly, that part of Moraziel's deal is that Weith Village is kept safe so long as it keeps feeding likely young heroes to the maze?

Persephone has merely been imprisoned; either she wasn't appropriate for the High Priest's needs for whatever reason, or what he does with Weith's heroes takes some time, or it'd already been done when we talked to her but wasn't obvious. Considering that she lacks our various accouterments of power (and presumably reached the moon by stealth and trickery instead of raw power), I suppose it's possible she just wasn't considered powerful enough for the High Priest's requirements.

The simplest "use" I can think of for a powerful hero here is to turn them mad and use them to extend the Mad One's dominion. One possible defense against that would be to rely on the Lady's protection, and hope that the High Priest, in channeling the Mad One's power, burns himself out (and goes mad in turn) before he can affect us.

I suppose it's also possible that the High Priest wants to use the Mad One to take on the other gods. Why rule the Earth when you can rule the Heavens? In which case we should be prepared for an attack against the Lady. What we'd do about that, I don't know.

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TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
I didn't quite get "use the Staff to turn the High Priest's attack back against himself", but I feel like my other wild speculations earlier came pretty close to the mark. :v: Has there been anything previous to this suggesting that the Lady's power is associated with Earth? I had her pegged as a nature/plants-and-animals goddess, while our Earth magic has consistently been elemental earth. So that association in the final puzzle surprised me.

Thanks for showing off this game! It was a fun ride, and definitely the kind of thing that, if it weren't for the LP format, could easily be lost to history.

I wonder how much money Prodigy made off of MadMaze...and how much it cost them to produce?

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