Old-school D&D/Retroclones: (Rolls the die, but it doesn't matter what the result is)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Old-school D&D/Retroclones: (Rolls the die, but it doesn't matter what the result is)

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dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

Do you guys think the greater druid community would be for or against nuclear power plants? I think the relatively low footprint of uranium mining compared to fossil fuels means that fey creatures with any intelligence ought to be on board.

You can't hug your trees with nuclear arms

# ¿ May 29, 2018 03:12

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 11:06

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Dolash posted:

Hey there, I spotted Dungeon Crawl Classic at a gaming store and this happened to converge with a friend of mine back home who did the same at his store. Twice a year I go back to my hometown and while I'm there get together with my old group to run a oneshot of some new system or other, so I'm thinking this might be a good candidate.

3rd edition was really more my entry point into gaming as a teen but I did have a taste of 2nd and a bit of nostalgia for it, and my friends are much the same way. It can be tricky running these oneshots for them though and while I find the old-school idea interesting I'm leery about pulling it off on the first (and possibly only) try.

Is there any advice for how the game works for a fairly large (6-8 players) one-off? The pack of zero-level characters for example sounds like it'd be pretty unmanageable unless that's all the session was about. These guys are mostly combat-oriented and forget each others' in-character names basically immediately and my biggest problem is always trying to keep everyone engaged so no one feels left out, bored, and starts messing around on their phone. Last Christmas we played Fantasy Flight's Edge of Empire Star Wars game and I was struggling to find something for everyone to do on their starship during a TIE attack, so avoiding getting bogged down like that would be great.

Frankly, DCC sounds perfect for a group like that. But with 7-8 players, I might recommend cutting it down to 3 0-level characters per player. (Basically, the 0-level adventures say stuff like "20 0-level characters", IIRC.)

The way it generally works in practice is that you have a favorite character or two, so you keep them safe (and earning XP) while sending your worst dudes out in front to get survival-of-the-fittest'd. You're not really actively playing 3-4 characters most of the time, but they're around if you need to - for example - gang up on a critter, or if someone comes at you from behind. Each of my players put up a "lead" character and everything that happened was just assumed to happen to them first, barring a darn good reason otherwise.

Character names will devolve into, for example, breakfast cereals. So there's no worry there either.

(e: And 1st+ level characters in DCC are both durable and interesting. The design is a lot more innovative than they pretend it is.)

# ¿ Jun 4, 2018 20:34

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Dolash posted:

I'm a bit worried about giving them all a bunch of zero-level characters, since rolling a ball of 21-24 shallow peasants around sounds like it'd make individual initiative difficult and I tend to lose these guys unless they're all regularly getting opportunities to take actions that hold their attention. I could maybe make it constant combat and try to whittle the group down quick to leave time for a regular adventure afterward - is the zero-level stuff typically a whole session or more like an extended character creation sequence?

Do not, not, not roll individual initiative for a bunch of 0-level scrubs.

And like I said, most of the time it'll be one active character per player, with the rest keeping a safe distance. (Unless they are lucky enough to have a sling or something.)

DCC does not play like 3e, or even 2e. It's its own thing. Combat will move incredibly fast even with a bunch of characters because, seriously, they have no mechanics to worry about at that level.

e: And no, the zero-level adventures are good, real adventures.

dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Jun 5, 2018

# ¿ Jun 5, 2018 01:29

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Dolash posted:

When I said individual initiative, I meant more the ability for any one player to do anything stand-out or interesting. Having a lot of characters that give each player three or four basic attacks in a mob without much to distinguish one player's actions over another sounds like it'd be hard to hook them with anything unique they can bring to a battle, especially if that's going to last a whole session.

Then again, there's maybe a sort of black comedy element to a high lethality game where they have several "lives" to manage that's definitely different than how we usually play. Maybe I'll give it a shot and look up some of these level 0 adventures to get a sense of what that sort of play is supposed to look like. Thanks for the feedback, I think it's helped get a bit of a grasp on the game's gist.

There's definitely a 'black comedy' feel to it. The body count - and enrichment through attrition - are part of the point.

Sailors on the Starless Sea is (imo deservedly) considered the best 0-level funnel. It's long enough that I'd personally recommend letting surviving characters level up mid-adventure as soon as they rack up the XP, but I'm a big softie. The increase in power and options from 0 to 1st is considerable.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2018 21:42

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

WiiFitForWindows8 posted:

I don't really have much to say of Mutant Crawl Classics. I threw 150 dollars onto the KS, but meh...

I only threw 50 bones at it, but I am likewise feeling pretty 'meh' about it. There's a lot of cool stuff here, but a lot of it also seems slapped-together in ways that DCC isn't.

I think I just love the '70's van art and bong-wizards' vibe of DCC a whole lot more. Problem is, about half my table was lukewarm on it. I think I can bring them back around in the future.

# ¿ Jun 6, 2018 14:26

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Megazver posted:

That seems to be the consensus on MCC.

I agree especially with the Shaman parts (and the Human classes in general).

EDIT:

And also I am super perplexed at the Constant mutations, with the rolls and whatnot, and their interaction with glowburn, etc. It doesn't seem fully thought through.

dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Jun 6, 2018

# ¿ Jun 6, 2018 14:56

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Yeah for us it was basically an add-on for the B/X we'd already been playing.

We still mostly used B/X rules, you know?

# ¿ Jun 13, 2018 14:05

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Lexicon of the Throne

Verdict? Still reading, but I'm impressed so far. There's a whole lot of design notes, which I appreciate. He does a good thing where he urges GMs to be very careful with the (new) Word of Desire, too.

# ¿ Jun 20, 2018 17:30

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Godbound Talk!

So we finished up the first ... well, it's a sandbox, can I really call it an adventure? I will do it anyway. Adventure ... of our Godbound campaign. And because Lexicon of the Throne just came out, I told my players they could change things around to take one of the new Words so long as it was adjacent to their character concept.

* Our Fire/Earth/Luck godbound dropped Luck and is now a Dragon. He very much likes being a dragon, to a rather surprising extent. It's a really, really good Word, though I explained to him that there's not much miracle possibility.
* Our Health/Passion/Sky peace-loving godbound dropped Sky and switched to Protection, which is way more his 'thing' anyway.
* Finally, our Knowledge/Endurance/Bow godbound decided to drop Bow and pick up the Luck that the new dragon just dropped.

We're more or less retconning everything.

ANYWAY! They saved the village they were in by - in effect - giving a horde of Uncreated an entire ruined/abandoned city. Which solved their immediate problem but created another big one. They are not sure they can handle an Uncreated of the Shackled Court due to their 3-point Cold Breath, so they went off to find an artifact that can suppress the Cold Breath. I have a vague outline (thanks, Kev, for those random tables) where a Knight Glorificant has set (something) against a Zealot of some sort, but it has turned back on him with dire consequences. I guess I will fill in those blanks today.

Godbound good so far.

# ¿ Jun 22, 2018 16:36

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Xotl posted:

Can you explain Godbound? I keep hearing "Exalted" raised when people talk about it, which is pretty much the polar opposite of old-school style, but it keeps being raised in an OSR context, so I'm really curious as to how it squares that circle.

"OSR Exalted" is pretty close, actually.

The rules are free. Check em out. Be sure to read the (short) rules section, though, because hit points mean something different than you might expect.

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/185959

# ¿ Jun 22, 2018 18:24

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

DCC is not a game designed for serious role-acting. Heck; I think the game's intro says as much, if I'm not mistaken.

This is not to say you can't do it, but you really shouldn't during the Level 0 funnel.

# ¿ Jun 25, 2018 15:12

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

WiiFitForWindows8 posted:

Stop. Please.

Anyway, I just pledged to said Kickstarter. Sakkara is an excellent KotB clone, and this should be good too. Threw in for Advanced LL but I might just drop that and get S&W instead...I hate Descending armor class.

There was a post here about LotFP's new rules.

I'm conflicted on them. There's nothing wrong with changing poo poo up, LotFP is a pretty "old" system and Raggi's admitted he's bored of it a little bit. There's a lot of ODD in it, but I dunno how much I like some of the changes

No, don't stop. Don't give Macris your money.

Tenkar's juvenile rant was basically that he wanted to shut his eyes and pretend that only elfgame-land exists. But the books - and money we pay for said books - live here in the real world. And those books are written by real people. We pay for them with money, not with gold pieces looted from a dragon's horde.

And if there's one person in gaming you should not give any money to, it's Macris. He is - right now - contributing to real-world misery in a more direct and far-reaching way than any Zaks or Pundits or whatever other grogs you can name, ever have.

# ¿ Jun 27, 2018 18:19

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

WiiFitForWindows8 posted:

That's it, donation tripled.

Oh sick burn. If you really wanted to own the libs, you'd forego the elfgame books entirely and just send money to Milo.

# ¿ Jun 28, 2018 05:55

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

obeyasia posted:

This guy seems like a massive tool, and the gaming with porn stars bit is obvious pandering.

What is there to like about his creative output? Honest question.

Is supporting him doing more long term damage than good?

He is a massive tool, but has produced good work in the past, including several supplements that have garnered awards and near-universal acclaim.

However, I recommend against supporting him or giving him any of your money.

# ¿ Jul 18, 2018 15:40

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

al-azad posted:

What settings do you think are underrepresented in OSR and OSR-likes?

Pretty much every OSR setting these days is some combination of dark, edgy, and Cthulhu.

So stuff that's not that, I guess.

# ¿ Jul 26, 2018 21:42

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

TheDiceMustRoll posted:

Honestly, I read a description of OSR and it works pretty great for me:

OSR is rejection of "New School" (corporate bullshit that requires from DM to use railroady story-telling modules and forces ten thousand sourcebooks filled with nonsensical character options on players; or that a fully-narrative improv theater that is presented by youtubers as THE role-playing).

OSR is sandbox-y, high-risk gameplay, without "option paralysis" (permitting players to generate character under 5 minutes - so that it might die within an hour without causing player some traumatic experience). You can add or remove compatibility with early D&D. That's up to personal taste.

I have no idea why you spoilered that out. But the first part is complete horseshit and the second is just dumb.

I mean if you want to sound like a reactionary neckbeard, fine, but it's still dumb. Like, focus on what your game does well, not on what silly caricature you've decided to shake your fist at.

# ¿ Jul 27, 2018 19:43

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

drrockso20 posted:

I recognize that too, although I'd say just because we use that site doesn't mean we're lovely

It makes it a much more likely possibility, though, in TYOOL 2018 as opposed to, like, 10 years ago.

# ¿ Jul 27, 2018 19:45

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Everything about that sounds horrible.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2018 16:01

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

It's like, I'm trying to imagine a situation where I'd present my players with a petrified penis of any kind as a treasure item.

I can't see myself running a game where that would be a thing.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2018 16:29

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Hollismason posted:

Oh I finished my map finally. I don't think I shared the finished version.

For Full Size

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vgfH3mWqHdX5TBwPmmRJrZbLenaDzioP/view?usp=sharing

This is what I worked on while my dad was in ICU and I was going crazy.

Oh neat - sunken Greyhawk?

edit: Never mind; phone resolution made the white look like a continuation of the seas.

dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Aug 12, 2018

# ¿ Aug 12, 2018 00:59

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Hey, if the player was cheating or being vaguely weird, then yeah, handle it off-table.

If they are being extremely weird, offensive, or making other players uncomfortable, handle it right away.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2018 18:02

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

TheDiceMustRoll posted:

he's a freedom of speechy kind of guy

# ¿ Sep 12, 2018 20:08

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Everything always migrates to Reddit.

# ¿ Oct 8, 2018 20:51

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

It looks like I'll get to run DCC again pretty soon!

Frankly, the amount of support that DCC gets is what I need right now. Free time is limited, so the more work that's done for me, the happier I am.

I already ran Starless Sea last time I ran the game. What other 0-level adventures would you run?

And do you go with the standard 3d6 characters, 3d6-but-then-improves characters, or go to one of the typical methods like 4d6s3 or even a weird method like in the 2015 program guide, 3d7, count 7=6?

# ¿ Dec 3, 2018 17:57

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

mkultra419 posted:

I've not run it yet, but the third party Nevin Pendlebrook's Perilous Pantry looks fun. Also, in case you haven't already found it Purple Sorcerer is an incredible resource site for running DCC. All kinds of generators amd a great app for zochi rolling and quick reference of spells and abilities.

Oh yeah I've been using the heck out of that.

quote:

I go with the 3d6 method. Both times I have ran Starless I pregenerated characters on Purple Sorcerer (four to a sheet) and let them quickly choose a sheet from a stack. I really emphasized using the luck mechanic to my groups to help smooth things out as its easy to forget if its their first time playing DCC.

I think I am probably - PROBABLY - going to go with the 3d6-in-order, but with some more heroic re-rolls on a few stats when they hit 1st.

I am also really intrigued by the Tatterdemalion's Heroes option (presented in the Program Guide 2015 - roll 3d7, count 7's as 6's). It gives a neat curve - still weighted in the positive, but less positive overall than 4d6s3 (except right at 18).

https://anydice.com/program/1281a

# ¿ Dec 4, 2018 19:39

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Amethyst posted:

DCC seems really cool, just reading over the modules and rulebook. The character funnel is a fantastic idea.

How's it play? Is getting characters beyond level 3 even viable? Does it end up fun for the players?

My table loved the 0-1 experience by and large.

It plays very well, though with more table look-up than ~~most~~ any modern games. (This is not a bad thing.)

Survivability spikes bigtime after level 0. You still need to be careful, but you aren't made of glass anymore.

# ¿ Dec 5, 2018 00:54

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Amethyst posted:

Sweet. I'll run it in the next week or two and see how it goes.

Any trip reports on the Starless Sea module?

Arguably, one of the best adventures of all time. It hits all the best notes for DCC.

My advice is to be sure you track xp. It's a long enough adventure that surviving characters will get enough to level up before the end - and they'll need it!

# ¿ Dec 5, 2018 00:56

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Amethyst posted:

I imagine the leviathan encounter going many different ways. Any TPKs?

It could very easily happen, yes.

You can drop very pregnant hints about it. And the proper solution.

# ¿ Dec 5, 2018 02:18

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

We started our DCC campaign last Wednesday.

I'm running Hole in the Sky (expanded) and it's been loving great so far.

I'm planning on letting the players increase their stats at the end, and then running Sunken City to set up the adventure framework. We're all excited as poo poo, it's great.

# ¿ Jan 13, 2019 03:05

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Basically yeah. Flavor-wise it's pretty good. The art is very computer-y and kinda takes me out of it, but the content is solid.

The "framework" is the Sunken City itself - it provides some good in-game justifications for adventuring parties, a way to move from adventure site to adventure site, crocodile/armadillo crossbreeds, and opossum-men.

Basically there's a lovely suburb right outside an ancient city, parts of which keep getting overtaken by a huge swamp. In this swamp full of ruins, you can put just about any adventure you see fit. All across the sunken city, there are magical pillars. A bound Demon teleports people between these stones, thereby providing dirt-poor low-level parties a way to get to sweet adventures.

It's simple but pretty cool.

# ¿ Jan 13, 2019 05:05

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Yes. And it should have been all along.

# ¿ Feb 12, 2019 18:25

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

There is OSR stuff being made by non-lovely people, and nothing the lovely people made is so good that it's irreplaceable.

# ¿ Feb 12, 2019 18:26

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

slap me and kiss me posted:

How about instead of a ban on denouncing lovely people, we ban discussing the work of lovely people?

This guy gets it.

# ¿ Feb 12, 2019 21:03

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

A Strange Aeon posted:

Anything I should know about MCC? I've played and run a few DCC meat grinder one shots which would probably be all I'd use MCC for. But I realized I've had the book from the Kickstarter for a long time now and haven't done anything with it.

This may be lost among the well-deserved excitation of Zak, but I backed MCC and do not like it at all.

It's incomplete. It is bizarrely low-powered. The few clever things are better brought into DCC games (AI patrons being the biggies) rather than stand on their own. Advancement is minimal. It's just not great.

# ¿ Feb 13, 2019 16:36

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Radio Talmudist posted:

Any thoughts on Godbound? The premise intrigues me, but I'm having a hard time picturing what a game where the PCs are demi-gods would look like. What does challenging the PCs mean in Godbound?

It means attacking things they love, at mid levels.

Combat can actually be challenging, too.

The influence/Dominion rules are extremely important, and if you don't plan on using them, you should probably not use the system. Your players will need to take a lot of initiative, and you will need to let them.

# ¿ Mar 17, 2019 18:39

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

It looks like this presentation, but it doesn't look like it's doing anything new?

# ¿ Apr 14, 2019 05:54

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Serf posted:

i got my hard copy of silent titans today. absolutely gorgeous book and the art is fantastic

I wish I hadn't had to back out of that for financial reasons.

# ¿ Apr 25, 2019 14:39

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Yah, I added on a hardcover Chained Coffin but didn't see the point of Sailors.

I now see the point, and drat.

# ¿ Jun 16, 2019 19:15

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Halloween Jack posted:

I regret every nice thing I said about DCC. I take it all back. It's a sadistic experiment by someone who thought the fatal flaw in old-school games is that character creation is insufficiently purgatorial.

Huh! We're having a blast with it.

Of course, I printed out about 50 pages of 4 characters each from purple sorcerer, and let the players pick the good ones, with stat boosts at the conclusion of the funnel (and then used 4d6 for characters after that). So I get the funnel frustration.

# ¿ Jul 12, 2019 21:59

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 11:06

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Megazver posted:

I've heard the restrictions on how much the clerics can cast are, in practice, so lax the mortality greatly drops off after level 1.

This is absolutely the case, yes - up until the Cleric pushes it too hard, which can happen. (There's also consequences - more on that in a sec.)

And if the cleric fails, there's still a very good chance the character will survive the Luck check. (Rolled equal or under current Luck on d20) particularly if there's a halfling in the group.

DCC has its deadly reputation from the funnel, but at 1st level and on it's more the kind of game where old characters get so many scars and injuries that they need to retire. Every time a character drops to 0 they permanently lose some Strength, Agility, or (usually) Stamina. That adds up over time, and it's kinda neat. It's one of those non-obvious timers people usually won't notice until running a campaign.

# ¿ Jul 12, 2019 23:23

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