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Ain't got no job, but I still stay sharp, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iCd6UHR-3I&t=161s A month and a half ago, I got laid off. Anticipating getting rehired before the severance ran out, I bought two twin-turboed sedans. Yes, this is definitely overreaching, and yes, I need to sell one of them off.  2010 Saab 9-5 Aero 197″ L x 74″ W x 58″ H 4251 lbs 300hp / 295 ft-lb 16 city / 27 highway  2006 Mercedes S65 203″ L x 73″ W x 57″ H 4773 lbs 604 hp / 738 ft-lb (that's 1000 Nm) 13 city / 20 highway This thread is about me comparison shopping the two cars (by various normal and AI criteria) and figuring out which one to keep.
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May 29, 2018 17:13
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uh you keep the car with the V12 this isnt even a debate
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May 29, 2018 17:42
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Why on earth would you keep the SAAB? They're both fat, and one of them has twice the cylinders.
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May 29, 2018 17:47
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twice the cylinders, but still has factory support (as in it still exists). Why do something so easy?
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May 29, 2018 17:52
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Twerk from Home posted:Why on earth would you keep the SAAB? They're both fat, and one of them has twice the cylinders. A big unknown is the running costs for the Saab. I'm into it for less, so if it's also cheaper than the Mercedes for upkeep/year, which it could be, that's a factor. I'll compare driving dynamics, which aren't all in the S65's favor. e: also, I love the way the 9-5 looks.
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May 29, 2018 17:56
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Proud Christian Mom posted:uh you keep the car with the V12 this isnt even a debate Seriously. I freaking love the last generation 9-5s a lot but this isn't even a competition. One is a front wheel drive based GM platform that was re-engineered by Sweden's largest group of acid-casualties. The other is the pinnacle of German wunderkind engineering.
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May 29, 2018 17:59
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Proud Christian Mom posted:uh you keep the car with the V12 this isnt even a debate
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May 29, 2018 18:19
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Proud Christian Mom posted:uh you keep the car with the V12 this isnt even a debate
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May 29, 2018 18:20
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When/why did you get rid of the Porsche?
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May 29, 2018 18:22
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EVERYWHERE 
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SIX HUNNERT HORSEPOWER.
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May 29, 2018 18:23
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LloydDobler posted:SIX HUNNERT HORSEPOWER. SEVEN HUNNERT FORTY TORKS. YEE HAW !
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May 29, 2018 18:25
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I was trying to find some way to be contrarian and pick the 9-5 but since it's black it even loses the neat black A and B pillar accents that at least made it look like a futurecar.
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May 29, 2018 18:26
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Terrible Robot posted:Seriously. I freaking love the last generation 9-5s a lot but this isn't even a competition. One is a front wheel drive based GM platform that was re-engineered by Sweden's largest group of acid-casualties. The other is the pinnacle of German wunderkind engineering. It all boils down to cost, pretty much. With my 348, Muffinpox summed it up perfectly -- the best car for your friend to own and you to drive. I've gotta live with the actual running costs to keep the cars as fully functioning as possible. Common items with these cars are gonna run me thousands if they shuffle off prematurely, so even thought it's affordable (I hope), it still ain't cheap.
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May 29, 2018 18:26
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Seminal Flu posted:When/why did you get rid of the Porsche? Cuz I'm an insane rear end in a top hat who gets bored too easily.
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May 29, 2018 18:27
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Part of my TOC comparison will be insurance and tax fees. Today when I went to get the S65 titled and registered, I ran into this: The clerk is happily hammering away entering all the info. Then she stops and walks to the back to consult someone. Comes back to say that I'm getting a provisional registration charge based on the actual sale price. Massachusetts uses NADA guide values for private sales to prevent gaming the system. In this case, NADA doesn't have a value for S65s, at least one that the clerk could look up. So at some point, the Dept of Revenue may hit me up for paying the difference, once they figure out the value, or maybe I'll get a refund.
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May 29, 2018 19:58
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This is a real thread?
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May 29, 2018 22:56
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TheFonz posted:This is a real thread? The realest, but we already know the answer.
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May 29, 2018 23:02
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Ok, initial costs. 9-5: It's a 2010 Aero, which comes with a GM V6, Haldex XWD, and HiPer Strut. It was listed on eBay with 113k mi, pretty clean interior except for some melted buttons, and "runs and drives smooth." Uh hunh. I didn't believe it. It was having trouble selling, with at least one auction winner backing out. So what do I do but run toward it. Won it for $6300, had it shipped for $1200. I let out a loooooong sigh when the trucker backed it off the truck and the check engine light was on. I knew something was probably up at that price, but, you know, insanity. It was fully driveable, but you can't pass inspection in MA with a CEL. Some of the High Feature V6s suffer premature timing chain stretch. The shop (there are still a couple of indy Saab shops up in MA) said they'd never seen one stretch this early, but after replacing the possibly bad cam position sensor, confirmed it. So one timing chain, water pump, and 2 O2 sensors later, the car is all set. The work set me back $4600, and you better loving believe there's sunk cost fallacy running through that motor. So I'm just over 12k on it, which isn't a bad price, but not a steal. Can a car from a brand that doesn't exist be a steal at any price? S65: Seller in CT had listed this for a long time. It was just on the edge of reasonable to go check out on a weekend. It looked better in person than in the photos, and it looked pretty decent there. For 104k mi, it looked lightly broken in on the interior. There's all of one ding on the left rear door. The Pneumatic System Equipment pump had just failed, but everything else that I could think of testing worked. The seller promised to fix the PSE before selling. He had it on 20" wheels, but they looked tacky and were so stiff. We agreed to 17500 on the stock 19" wheels (he had them, but some PO spray painted them black), and I provided fresh tires. Took forever to get his mechanic to replace the PSE, but he did that, and so I bought it. The wheels are not running the TPMS, so that's currently the only error message that comes up.
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May 30, 2018 00:03
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I also vote S65, but mostly because I'll be interested to see how painful the ownership experience is. I've been greatly tempted by used mercs in the past but I've always been scared to pull the trigger due to cost of upkeep.
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May 30, 2018 00:26
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Disgruntled Bovine posted:I also vote S65, but mostly because I'll be interested to see how painful the ownership experience is. Right now the upkeep is me walking outside every hour to see if the suspension is sagging from leaking ABC pumps.
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May 30, 2018 00:40
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kimbo305 posted:Right now the upkeep is me walking outside every hour to see if the suspension is sagging from leaking ABC pumps.   A W221 S65 drove past me this morning when I was walking my dog. It sounded great. I'm loving jealous heated game moment fucked around with this message at 02:14 on May 30, 2018 |
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May 30, 2018 02:05
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Driving dynamics: 9-5: I think I might have more miles on it tiptoeing around pre timing chain replacement, but have given it full throttle a few times. The suspension feels decently firm, though in this car's case, there's a clunk in the front right and the shocks feel tired going over bigger bumps and divots. The motor has the same hp/torque figures as my old Charger, so that's a meaningful starting point for comparison. As you'd expect, it takes a couple of seconds for boost to fully come on, but once it hits, it makes that sweet turbo shove and I think of Ridley Scott's 300ZX commercial. For daily driving, it has a nice amount of power. There's a dial for Comfort/ Intelligent/Sport, but I can't tell which things it covers. Shift programming, maybe. Driven spiritedly, the car feels composed and well balanced, with excellent turn-in. NB: it has some generic all season tires on there. Past 7/10, and there's classic FWD understeer. You can feed it more wheel, but the car doesn't respond at all anymore. Grip is still good, but it'll just grip you right off the outside of the corner. I definitely miss the Charger's ability to modulate oversteer with throttle. Steering feel is not great, but plenty for this kind of car. Effort also feels suitably heavy for a big sport sedan. The upright Saab-heritage A pillar is still too thick to really see around at T intersections. The seating and steering wheel ergonomics are quite adjustable and unremarkable. Compare to the Charger where the wheel was like 2cm offset to the right. The 9-5 comes off like an enjoyable full size car with extremely easy to use point and shoot handling. S65: Ok, this is what everyone wants to know. First thing, far and away -- wtf is up with the throttle mapping? I've never felt a less linear and unintuitive gas pedal before. This assessment combines the throttle and transmission behavior. I don't know if the 5-speed they put behind these motors has lockup, but taking off from a stop, the torque converter slush has never been more evident. The first inch of travel just goes toward bringing the V12 off idle up to 1.1k. The sounds are quite nice but you barely get any forward motion. At some point the torque converter will catch up, so if you're at a light and want to proceed normally, you need to feed it another inch or so and let the transmission follow at its own pace, which is agonizingly unhurried. I think this motor to wheel speed disconnect is what people hate about CVTs. If you limited the motor to 2k RPMs, it would probably drive like any other Mercedes -- sedate and smooth. I guess I should ask -- is this normal? Will the Renntech tune reprogram the shifting?
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May 30, 2018 13:39
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kimbo305 posted:Driving dynamics: Yeah that doesn't sound like the E55 at all, which has the same 722.6 transmission. Wikipedia posted:AMG Speedshift (2002-) A few things I can think of: You can try doing the transmission ECU reset trick to make it shift quicker, they are adaptive and if you drive it around like a grandma it will shift slower. quote:Procedure Reset Transmission Adaptive Learning DIY Is the behavior the same across driving modes? Is it just you getting used to the weird drive by wire feel of everything? Is the transmission actually slipping?
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May 30, 2018 14:05
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My neighbor has an 08 E550 and when I took it for a spin the gas pedal was exactly how you described it. You just have to bury the pedal for it to even think of giving you anything resembling brisk acceleration, and even then it felt sluggish as hell. Really turned me off on Mercedes. I haven't seen reviewers complaining about it (although I haven't really sought out reviews of various mercs so...) so I'm thinking it's just the learning algorithm that messed with it, the relearn is a good suggestion. What's the transmission fluid interval? It might be due.
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May 30, 2018 14:24
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Yeah, an inch travel on the go pedal with the V12 should be fairly snappy. Hell another inch in and you start breaking laws within a couple seconds.
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May 30, 2018 14:30
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C-Bangin' it 
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You just described every Merc I've driven that was owned by someone who drives sedately. Try the relearn, cause ones I've driven that were enthusiast owned or driven hard felt totally different.
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May 30, 2018 14:42
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Do you have transmission modes? My AMG feels sluggish as hell in Comfort and won't get out of its own way, but in Sport or Sport+ it's an entirely different monster.
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May 30, 2018 15:04
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Does the TT V12 still sound like an F1 car with a proper exhaust, or did they ruin that? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-iV59F7E7s Because if yes you know what you must do.
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May 30, 2018 15:39
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mobby_6kl posted:Does the TT V12 still sound like an F1 car with a proper exhaust, or did they ruin that? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-iV59F7E7s That's the old N/A version, the 2006 and newer ones are twin turbo so they don't sound the same but still quite nice https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_ueYXvyXGY
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May 30, 2018 15:47
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mobby_6kl posted:Does the TT V12 still sound like an F1 car with a proper exhaust, or did they ruin that? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-iV59F7E7s That's hosed up. It fucks with my perception of what I'm seeing and hearing.
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May 30, 2018 16:13
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Just lol at buying a merc with more than 80k. keep the saab. you're going to need to be buried in the other one to make it worth it.
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May 30, 2018 16:38
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muckswirler posted:Just lol at buying a merc with more than 80k. keep the saab. you're going to need to be buried in the other one to make it worth it. 
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May 30, 2018 16:53
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Adiabatic posted:Do you have transmission modes? My AMG feels sluggish as hell in Comfort and won't get out of its own way, but in Sport or Sport+ it's an entirely different monster. What's funny (at least for the W221) I can't hardly tell much difference between comfort and sport. Basically in comfort it will take off in second gear and I really don't notice much difference in ride softness. Now if I hammered it off the line there might be a difference but I try not to subject the land yacht to that stress. Now rolling starts at 20 are a different matter. Another funny thing about the s-class has underbody trays. Not really remarkable. But the rear one feels like crushed velour and I'm amazed it looked practically brand new the last time I looked at it. The OP bought a lot of car for the money.
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May 30, 2018 16:54
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Are you going to be able to wrench on the S-class? Is the thought of an independent Mercedes mechanic + S-class = reasonable running cost even a thing?
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May 30, 2018 16:55
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Residency Evil posted:Are you going to be able to wrench on the S-class? Is the thought of an independent Mercedes mechanic + S-class = reasonable running cost even a thing? I have to believe that even if do your own wrenching or find a reasonably priced independent the parts cost is going to be the primary issue. I know a guy who spent $12k on getting the shocks done on his S class, but that was at the dealer so YMMV.
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May 30, 2018 17:05
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Adiabatic posted:Do you have transmission modes? My AMG feels sluggish as hell in Comfort and won't get out of its own way, but in Sport or Sport+ it's an entirely different monster. Not that I can tell, but it could be somewhere where I haven't looked. Like the massage? controls at the front of the seat pad. Reset is the next obvious step. Residency Evil posted:Are you going to be able to wrench on the S-class? Is the thought of an independent Mercedes mechanic + S-class = reasonable running cost even a thing? There's a couple of things that you can DIY. One is redoing the high pressure hoses for the ABC pump. FCP Euro is supposed to have decent prices for stuff -- the one video running down common repair parts didn't scare me off.
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May 30, 2018 17:08
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Anal Del Raytheon posted:Is it just you getting used to the weird drive by wire feel of everything? In the same way you get used to a new clutch's uptake, I could certainly get used to it, but stabbing an inch into the gas to get going is just weird.
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May 30, 2018 17:14
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kimbo305 posted:I don't think it is. When it's shifting, it feels pretty positive. The CVT effect happens all in first gear. quote:Clunky transmission. The S65 is the only refreshed S-Class to stick with a seven-speed transmission, and the gearbox’s age is evident with every shift. (Of course, this gearbox is the only one able to handle the V12’s massive torque output.) It clunks and lurches on downshifts, especially in city driving. Because the transmission starts off in second gear unless you use Sport+ mode, the wet start-up clutch slips forever off the line. It’s a stark contrast to the ultra-slick nine-speed transmission in other S-Class sedans. Found this regarding the 2018 model which still uses a variation of the same transmission. I would try putting it in sport plus mode and see if that makes a big difference. There should be a button next to the shift lever that says M C/S to change modes.
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May 30, 2018 17:27
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Anal Del Raytheon posted:Found this regarding the 2018 model which still uses a variation of the same transmission. I would try putting it in sport plus mode and see if that makes a big difference. There should be a button next to the shift lever that says M C/S to change modes. K, I do have that. I'll try it out, but will probably start with a reset after I get the car inspected -- just don't want it to throw any codes before I get a sticker.
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May 30, 2018 20:32
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Disgruntled Bovine posted:I have to believe that even if do your own wrenching or find a reasonably priced independent the parts cost is going to be the primary issue. I know a guy who spent $12k on getting the shocks done on his S class, but that was at the dealer so YMMV. The shock cost thing is often trotted out (and rightly so because somewhere there will be a failure.) Basically the parts cost are around $800 for ABC Arnott rebuilts per corner. Of course the problem is they can't rebuild them fast enough for a quick turn around so you might have to wait. As for DIY stuff, sure you can. Step 1 is to buy a Dell 610 (or maybe a 620, they are old) laptop with DAS/Star diagnostic software along with a multiplexor. Fortunately it is a big market. Once you open the hood, you see how 10 pounds of poo poo was stuffed in a 5 pound bag. Then you realize cramming the car into your garage is another task because it is well shall we say long.
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May 30, 2018 20:36
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