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Jacobin also has recently opened (as in, they're publishing their second issue rn) in Italy, for what it's worth.
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Mar 13, 2019 12:28
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Kurtofan posted:maybe salvini can go for another famous mussolini moment next time, i have a suggestion an italian politician said exactly the same thing and put a picture of salvini upside down next to dead mussolini upside down and got sued for defamation for it lol
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May 16, 2019 10:29
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 For this. "If he likes to re-enact [Mussolini]'s life so much, he should keep in mind that Piazzale Loreto [where mussolini's corpse was hanged, ndr] is about to become a pedestrian-only square"
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May 16, 2019 11:30
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Kurtofan posted:I really don't see what's worthy of being sued here lol Yeah but Italian public figures like to weaponize legal action cause it means you either pay a lawyer for like 4-5 years, or however biblically long it takes for poo poo to go to trial, or you settle out of court for shutting the gently caress up and issuing a retraction.
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May 16, 2019 17:15
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 here's the ft projections for who italys gonna send to the ep. welcome to reactionary hellcountry lol
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May 22, 2019 12:11
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i was gonna vote for the green party but then it turns out they were poo poo at vetting candidates/the party leader actually was a cryptofascist which is why he rejected the proposal to run as a united left list, so it came out that some of the greens candidates were linked to an 'ecofascist' (cant make this poo poo up) group founded by a close friend of the founder of the current largest neofascist party in italy so welp it doesnt matter anyway because italys contribution to europe is gonna be made singularly of reactionaries lol
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May 22, 2019 13:32
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do they also have the 'communists eat children meme' in france? or is that particular thing just italy
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May 22, 2019 21:20
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Kurtofan posted:don't think so, that's a new one for me that communist propaganda poster was just perfect material to feed that idiot meme, thats why i was asking. its a thing that was initially born during the fascist republic of salò near the end of the war and then popularized by our centre right christian democrat party which ruled the country for 40 years after wwii. mortons stork has issued a correction as of 08:32 on May 23, 2019 |
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May 23, 2019 08:25
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yeah its really bad, plus with zero-bound policies + qe in the past few years failing to meaningfully increase inflation there is literally 0 room for maneuver, any future recession can be met by only pro-cyclical contractionary responses wrt monetary policy (either doing nothing, or raising interest rates, which was only possible back when the poors couldnt vote) 'cause interest rates cant fall lower than 0 (i mean, the imf had a working proposal for negative rates but i doubt it will be in any way practically feasible). and this isn't even counting how some states (italy, greece) are already severely overstretched in their budgets despite a full decade of cuts, tears and blood and sweat. shits gonna be real bad
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Jun 9, 2019 16:30
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uncop posted:Or we could have rescuing stock prices alongside crushing austerity again, I guess. you already know which option will be chosen lol
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Jun 9, 2019 20:01
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get that OUT of my face posted:i checked out the latest google news updates on Italy and i was actually surprised to see that they put another security degree into law. i shouldn't be, but here i am that is also the decree to make italy jump category a full place into semi-authoritarian, in that it equates peaceful protest with violent dissent in the eyes of the law, increases police discretionary powers and heavily increases sanctions for 'unauthorized' protesting. not only that, it shifts the burden of dealing with immigration related crimes to the local anti-mafia units, which were special judiciary units tasked with investigating and punishing organized crime. the reason for this is all too obvious. finally it allows the state discretion to deny passage into territorial waters to any ship 'suspected' of violating immigration laws, with sanctions up to 50k€ to both crew and owner and confiscation of the ship. mortons stork has issued a correction as of 16:59 on Jun 21, 2019 |
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Jun 21, 2019 16:49
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good news! parliament is also working on several laws to make divorce in cases of violence more difficult, reforming parental leave to grant exactly 50-50 custody in all cases and pretty much eliminate alimony in one of the most gender-unequal societies of the west, considering a fetal personhood bill, and has already passed laws that make divorce longer, more expensive and difficult the state as a whole is also pushing for a federal-like fiscal reform to ensure the rich north keeps even more tax money than it already does, and salvini is now slamming fists on the table to get 10bn out of a cash strapped budget threatened with infraction procedure in order to do a hungary-modeled fiscal reform wrt income taxes mortons stork has issued a correction as of 17:53 on Jun 21, 2019 |
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Jun 21, 2019 17:50
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get that OUT of my face posted:i also saw that the government is pushing for parliament to directly appoint the majority of the board of the italian central bank, which won't result in massive graft at all not just that, they're raiding systematically the coffers of every single state enterprise that was in the black the past few years. theyre trying to appropriate the entirety of CDP, which is a state investment fund designed as a safeguard for budgetary emergencies. theyre decimating every last emergency revenue stream available, if poo poo of any kind goes down italy is hosed three ways to sunday.
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Jun 22, 2019 15:28
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this does not automatically mean new elections though, thank gently caress for parliamentary form of government. a new government can be made if a majority is found without going to new elections, and it looks at least possible that m5s and pd could find common ground. this would be deceptively good because salvini is on the backfoot and a. people in his party have been showing signs of discontent which might explode into full blown revolt if he shows them that he got outmaneuvered out of power, b. a lot of his political clients are new and not well consolidated, appointments can be reversed, so hitting him there another good way to hit him where it hurts (if he cant show his people they get appointments and power and money and bitches if they follow him theres good reason to find a better one). c. if hes no longer the minister of the interior he cant go campaigning around on state dime and have the political police's thugs protect his rallies like he did before, so he could actually face a modicum of organized resistance, further tarnishing his reputation. ffs the guy got his communication and pr staff consultancies at the ministries so weve been basically subsidising his campaign the whole way. if he leaves govt and a new one is formed he loses that, and he also loses control over state tvs, he can actually be toppled i think. i know that a lot of this is unlikely, as it implies other political forces have not only the foresight to put such a plan in act but the acumen to do it effectively, but still its a heck of a lot better than dehumanizing myself and facing to fascism. mortons stork has issued a correction as of 16:56 on Aug 20, 2019 |
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Aug 20, 2019 16:48
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He also did that in the EU thread until people got tired of his poo poo there.
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Aug 20, 2019 20:13
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why does every thread that guy posts in become about his problems
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Aug 21, 2019 14:28
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yeah they can seriously gently caress with the nazi guy's work in government and then internal party fracturing and him getting contested out of existence at every rally will hopefully take care of the rest.
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Aug 21, 2019 17:14
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the nazi guy has just announced that he's willing to go back into a coalition with the m5s so watch them gently caress this up and deliver us full fascism by the end of the electoral cycle
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Aug 22, 2019 21:16
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Kurnugia posted:how the hell did this 'direct democracy' thing even get off the ground? i know it's a difficult fit to believe, but in 2012 it was hard enough even for me to believe in, and now this is the result of all that. goddamn, democracy is a loving fail m5s was the only party to talk youth unemployment, environment issues, and wider popular participation to the political process in a country so badly ossified in power structures and gerontocratic we believe a 45-y.o. man is a junior in pretty much any sector e: m5s initially started as basically civil society orgs in medium-to-large urban centers to lobby for better environmental policy, transparency in admin, better public services and the like. thats part of what made them so appealing, they were basically grassroots. you have to draw a distinction between these guys, who have been given basically 0 say in how the party is run, and the digital marketing agency that actually runs the whole thing (im serious, sadly), who coopted the whole thing and uses parliamentary deputies basically as ad testimonials for itself. national-level m5s is an empty box with no ideas, but it took 2 electoral cycles and an actual spell in government for anyone to realise this. mortons stork has issued a correction as of 19:47 on Aug 28, 2019 |
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Aug 28, 2019 19:39
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Kurnugia posted:huh. that's pretty much how the whole direct democracy (muutospuolue) thingy went in finland. except that our equivalent party never got even one guy in the parliament. i was very into that whole thing 10 years back so i admired your m5s a lot back then, but ours just fell apart before the politicos got their hands on it. me, i got out after the first meeting when i saw the people i was supposed to be forming a party with i think the distinguishing factors here is that there was strong antipolitical sentiment to capitalise on, and the m5s did manage to get one (just the one) competent administrator elected in parma, a city that previous admins had left literally bankrupt. the other big thing is that beppe grillo, the nominal leader and comedian-activist founder of the m5s met with a crazy techno-fetishist who had crazy dreams of panopticon societies much like those libertarian memes about idiots who want everything..... on the blockchain. this guy ran a web marketing agency, who saw potential (for himself to get govt contacts and procurements) in the m5s as a national phenomenon. grillo had a lot of following, and the ad agency took care of turning that into real support with a huge social media guerrilla marketing campaign which other populists have copied in order to get themselves into office (think farage, now also salvini was doing the same etc). so they could turn out big crowds irl with grillo's shows, and they could reach huge amounts of people that nobody was bothering to reach out to, online. add to all this how the italian political class is a gigantic clusterfuck of inbreeding, crossleveraging and blackmail designed to carefully gatekeep the political arena in such a way that only a heavily restricted class of local power brokers and well connected capitalists have any real say, leaving everyone else to beg for patronage from the aforementioned, and you can see why this movement ballooned, especially in southern italy which is basically stuck in a feudal-like power arrangement. their real moment of emergence was the v-day, which translates literally to gently caress-off day. it was a huge loving rally held just to say 'gently caress you' to everyone in power at that time. nothing else, just 'gently caress you' imagine a political class sucking so bad that they engender this sort of response. mortons stork has issued a correction as of 08:44 on Aug 29, 2019 |
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Aug 29, 2019 08:41
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I mean, we're getting there pretty much everywhere else. the original v-day was 2007, symptom that the italian system was a creaky piece of poo poo already before the great recession fully hit
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Aug 29, 2019 12:40
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Ah yes the famous Dutch fiscal responsibility, which during this crisis has allowed them to *checks notes* immediately declare eugenics-worthy triage rules.
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Mar 29, 2020 14:29
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anyone have an idea why eu has done this deranged messaging shift where now nazism and communism are put on the same level? https://twitter.com/EUCouncil/status/1297449748878647297
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Aug 24, 2020 17:13
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it is absolutely an equiparation, or they'd have separate days E: the intent is clearly conflation of nazism and communism, as detailed here https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/can-europe-make-it/european-identity-and-paradox-anti-communism/ the question: why though mortons stork has issued a correction as of 18:20 on Aug 24, 2020 |
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Aug 24, 2020 18:06
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your argument about having too many days holds no water on its face and merits no further consideration. as regards the other, the explicit goal of the resolution was to conflate nazism and communism. see portrayal in our media, for instance, or the article i linked above https://www.repubblica.it/politica/2019/09/22/news/comunismo_nazismo_parlamento_europeo_risoluzione-236628451/
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Aug 24, 2020 18:24
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the heat goes wrong posted:Because EU includes lots of eastern european countries. And eastern european countries had lots of their people killed by communists. And now they have a memorial day for the victims of totalitarian states. why do they have to celebrate nazi victims and communist victims together, then if the objective is not to conflate the two things, which also refer to very different historical realities (warsaw pact lasted 50 years, nazis were openly genocidal as opposed to communist repression and so on) gradenko_2000 posted:
i think this thread is a little too defensive of lukashenko. he has lost a lot of his base of support, esp the unions who are now going on strike against him, and he is still ultimately warden of a capitalist order, however tamed. however, that said, it looks like belarus is about to get cannibalized by neoliberal hell capitalism either way. opposition programs are universally of the neoliberal, privatize and steal everything not nailed down kind. part of the opposition is financed by russian capital, the others by western capital, there's even a rising business class that wants its own interests to be reflected in policy. and if lukashenko wins, i think the retaliation isnt gonna look pretty. what im not seeing is the left part of the opposition. i think belarus might be hosed mortons stork has issued a correction as of 09:42 on Aug 25, 2020 |
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Aug 25, 2020 06:53
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gradenko_2000 posted:Do you not get that making January 18th both about Martin Luther King, Jr. AND Robert E. Lee at the same time might just have a specific political motivation to dilute the meaning of one with the other? One of the initial theses of Italian fascists asking for the (legitimate, imo) remembrance of victims of ethnic cleansing in Yugoslavia was that it had to be attached to Holocaust memorial day IIRC, specifically with the purpose you outlined above in mind. Reason eventually prevailed and a different day was chosen for those particular massacres.
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Aug 25, 2020 14:35
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Prosecutors shrugged their shoulders too Just refused to inquire on the racism thing, mustve been an honest mistake lol
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Jan 16, 2021 09:03
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Yanis Varoufakis, former finance minister of Greece during the Tsipras govt has been writing a lot of his experiences in various outlets, I'd suggest starting from him Sorry for not being very specific, it's the sort of thing I accumulated over time as opposed to reading in one source.
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Jan 16, 2021 11:50
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Even more bespoke lmaos about renzi: looks like our PM has already found a new majority for his government. those new factions being recruited include some of renzis former colleagues in his party. also, some of the new coalition members are putting a veto on ever including him again in the new majority, which lol. also, since he doesn't own his party name and symbol, which instead belongs to one of the people who are for certain going to backstab him, he's going into the unaffiliated senators group (usually end of the line for a career politician, getting kicked out or leaving a party means you're not coming back to parliament usually) just loving incredible. we gonna see even more lmaos when this shitshow of politics and betrayal is all put to the vote monday and tuesday
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Jan 16, 2021 19:12
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you guys cannot believe the amount of embarassingly bad propaganda being spewed 24/7 by our media, all stories of the same caliber of that NYT article about Kamala's jacket on vogue, and it is being pumped to the rhythm of like 5-6 articles a day on each of our major newspapers. oh he was such a rebel in school and popular with the girls! here's a story about how he flew economy one time! i fondly remember those times when we shared our bench at x company early in our careers! etc etc, all day long. if this is the sort of effort they do to push that guy i can only imagine the devastation that is about to come to us. keep us in your prayers just in case. also, lol at how italy keeps exposing democracy for the farce it is whenever they feel like it. this is like the 4th time in our history they just up and went 'no what we actually need is a technocrat to do this bit' and inevitably it ends in blood and tears mortons stork has issued a correction as of 16:29 on Feb 5, 2021 |
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Feb 5, 2021 16:25
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conte is the best example of chameleon-like italian politicians like we've had for over a hundred years. in 2018 he headed a para-fascist coalition of lega and m5s and signed on some poo poo that took us a peg or two into the sliding-scale of authoritarianism w/o even blinking. then in 2019 formed a pd-m5s government and like reversed half the poo poo he personally signed and promoted as good in the previous year initially also did astonishingly well containing the pandemic, then around september october decided to just like throw in the towel, and just contented himself with the rally-round-the-flag popularity boost leaders get for handling a crisis. still, he was miles better than he couldve been given the circumstances. he was also a lot worse than what was needed, so in short a land of contrasts
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Feb 5, 2021 22:24
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Maximo Roboto posted:lol is this an act of opportunistic centrism or is this a proof that the center is fascist a la Macron All the liberals are jumping at the chance to call him a responsible statesman so both options, op
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Feb 10, 2021 07:40
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Chomskyan posted:https://twitter.com/DanielZamoraV/status/1360203303557226500 holy poo poo lmao
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Feb 12, 2021 16:37
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:i just think italians are ahead of the curve, really. always have been. they invented the renaissance after all, and were doing fascism before the rest of europe. were also doing T.V. clown populist-plutocrat politicians before everyone else did. also, they're at the cutting edge of fashion. it is a spot-on characterization. especially the abject disillusionment at the sight of our elite reconfiguring itself in real time like a tesseract in order to gently caress our society up even harder E: there is one intensely funny thing that has had me laughing like the joker over the past evening is that they were swearing up and down that our government was really incompetent and that's why it had to be brought down, so they could replace it with smart technocrats. newspapers literally called the as of yet not formed government 'the government of the betters,' i poo poo you not. well, it turns out our betters are basically the fifth berlusconi government with a litttle more representation from the last government coalition. it is such a bitter joke Carthag Tuek posted:counterpoint: donald trump was a meme even before he became trumopr mortons stork has issued a correction as of 09:28 on Feb 13, 2021 |
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Feb 13, 2021 09:11
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https://theintercept.com/2021/04/30/italy-anti-mafia-migrant-rescue-smuggling/ this intercept story is an excellent recap of how an originally extraneous entity faced with a decline in its prospective powers - the anti-mafia prosecutorial division in italy - took over basically the nazification of the european response to the migration crisis, and both italian AND european institutions aided and abetted the transformation in policy from 'rescues at sea' to 'refoulements by proxy' i would like to post some choice quotes but reading the article makes me irrationally angry
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May 5, 2021 08:09
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lol that in keeping with late stage neoliberal decline it had to be the "social democrats" proposing to gently caress up the rental market even more and it had to be the fascists to oppose it, along with the left
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Jun 21, 2021 09:22
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Bot 02 posted:The fascists even support this specific proposal, they just want to use the opportunity to take down the current government. double lmao then. though, isnt it strategically unwise for them specifically to sink the government over it then? since you know it will have become toxic. or do they count on an absolute liberal/right wing/fash (i repeat myself) majority next go around to just push it down the country's throat with impunity?
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Jun 21, 2021 13:06
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Making "the left" lose is its own reward. Every time they show that social democrats are losers, they convince more of their voters to leave the sinking ship. oh, that makes sense then. next go around there probably wont be enough votes on the actual left to stop that poo poo, is what theyre going with right? sounds depressingly familiar tbh SplitSoul posted:Come talk to us when they sell complete control over the public energy grid to Goldman Sachs on the advice of McKinsey, whom the responsible minister then gets hired by, and it's all legal and no problem at all and now he's the editor of Børsen ("The Exchange"), the most pro-finance, free market and private enterprise newspaper. lol i come from the country whose parliament self-soft-couped so they could set up the rightmost government in our history since 1945 to blow the windfall of the european recovery fund on handouts to industrial groups and loving annihilate the possibility of there ever being any substantial investment in poo poo people actually need like healthcare, infrastructure, or education. we got a bunch of koch thinktank guys directly advising the gov on how to spend the money and evaluating the programs. you dont need to tell me, i am already laughing like the joker since january or so
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Jun 21, 2021 15:50
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mila kunis posted:is the 5 star movement a stupid joke or what it was born as an explicitly anti-system party whose values steered as close to socialistic as is possible without actually employing the S-word, starting with its territorial based organization, moving on to its emphasis on environmental preservation, democratic participation in local and national decisionmaking and grassroots organizing. this lasted about 1 year before it was entirely hijacked and turned into a national-level black box party, controlled centrally by an obscure IT firm from milan. this reorganization jettisoned everything (the territorial branches, the democratic participation, even the one or two good mayors it had managed to elect before) and turned the party into a nationally relevant channel for all anti-system sentiment, without ever actually taking any sort of anti-systemic action. notable difference is that now the party only exists at the national level, and fails miserably in local territorial elections it became a sort of security buffer for italian bipolarism, and still is today. it is a right wing crutch, no more no less, and it is now hemorraging votes to other right wing parties, as designed. the 5 star movement is the reason i answer with a full throated laugh when people try to tell me that left politics must just be unpopular, and people dont want it, they just love rightwing poverty bullshit. like gently caress, they had to do this whole elaborate scheme to strangle a vaguely left grassroots thing in the crib, lmfao at electoral politics and anyone who thinks their results align with broad popular opinion spankmeister posted:[astronaut pointing a gun at you] always has been so this, in summary, kinda mortons stork has issued a correction as of 07:34 on Jul 27, 2021 |
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Jul 27, 2021 07:28
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