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edit: wrong thread
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Jun 21, 2018 16:02
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| # ¿ May 17, 2024 01:33 |
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https://twitter.com/geertwilderspvv/status/1017066719469363201?s=19
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Jul 12, 2018 17:24
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https://twitter.com/gijsvdnheuvel/status/1017488796756205568?s=20 https://twitter.com/gnobi/status/1017490902741286912?s=20 The Dutch and Portuguese PMs say he has a hernia
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Jul 13, 2018 11:24
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The other theory is that he's a drunk but I suspect this is disinformation
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Jul 13, 2018 12:46
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Maybe I should look into buying a fan or something
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Jul 26, 2018 23:33
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namesake posted:Ah that lovely little positive bump when he said all the imperialism that France does is good and that Muslims and black people should be grateful and sort themselves out. The french left will not make it to the next election due to their teleporters being sabotaged by the russians
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Jul 27, 2018 17:50
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Nice.
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Jul 28, 2018 14:38
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“The ban also targets other accessories that hide the face such as balaclavas, masks and false beards.” uh what
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Aug 4, 2018 15:11
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Can't believe the time honored European trade of false beard maker is going to be outlawed under this new regulation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRsFFB0VN-o twoday has issued a correction as of 18:37 on Aug 4, 2018 |
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Aug 4, 2018 18:34
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The EU is conducting a poll about abolishing summertime, and it's going on for the next few days https://ec.europa.eu/info/consultations/2018-summertime-arrangements_en Join me in the endless winter that is the future of Europe
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Aug 14, 2018 12:30
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 :angryitalianchef:
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Aug 14, 2018 12:41
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Uhh... Are you referring to the time when Georg Kahn-Ackerman of West Germany was appointed to the position of Secretary General of the Council of the EU between 1974 and 1979???
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Aug 16, 2018 01:51
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Nvm
twoday has issued a correction as of 11:16 on Aug 17, 2018 |
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Aug 17, 2018 02:44
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Often Abbreviated posted:So you're not going to ask any of them what they think of losing their language, then? They seem pretty happy to you, and it's not a big deal to you, so you can't possible understand how a people who had to smuggle books into their own country in order to keep their language alive might care about that? I immigrated to a country in the EU I wasn’t born in, learned the language and culture, and I’m happy I did. It’s made my life better not only materially but I also feel richer as a human being. And it goes the other way too, I know people from this country who hated it here, moved to South America, and say their life is better there. I know Brits who immigrated here and as soon as the Brexit vote happened they took the language exam needed to become naturalized here, because they value being able to live here and move around freely. Freedom of movement is something I treasure, as do my friends. Being an expat isn’t the same life as staying at home, but for some people, that’s what they want. While living here I have not only made friends with natives but with other expats in similar shoes. Because of that, I know people from countries all over the EU. In this way, moving to this country has made me connected to many others, through both experience and personal relations. This wouldn’t have been possible in the archaic walled-up Europe you dream about, but I’m extremely thankful that it is. Some of them moved here for economic opportunities but turned around and went home anyway, because they liked it better there and they were free to return. I’m not Polish, but I’m happy that there is a Polish store in this city where I can buy amazing pork and handmade pierogis and herbata, and I am happy that I went to Lithuania on vacation. And kids don’t have to lose their languages. I know a couple from 2 different EU countries who met here and had kids, and their kids speak 4 languages now (the mother’s, the father’s, the local one, and English which the parents use to communicate with each other.) Austerity is bullshit, I agree. Here, look at Portugal: http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/portugals-economic-recovery-how-much-came-from-ditching-austerity/ They rejected many suggested austerity proposals and their economy has been doing great. That, in part, because of investment plans implemented by the European Commission under Juncker in 2014. Pro-austerity isn’t the only force in the EU. Germany isn’t the only country that decides things in the EU. It’s not black and white; there are an astounding number of forces at play. Greece got hosed, sure, but look at some of the Eastern States: https://twitter.com/aleipold/status/1029328383967223808 twoday has issued a correction as of 04:31 on Aug 17, 2018 |
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Aug 17, 2018 03:47
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The Baltic states had closed borders during Soviet days, as even moving within the USSR required a national passport, people were dreaming of living in Western Europe, or at least East Germany. The net effect of being part of the EU has increased standards of living in Eastern Europe, even with the migration you are so concerned about. Estonia in particular has become a tech hub. As economies improve economic migrants also return.
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Aug 17, 2018 22:08
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not a cult posted:how do you improve your economy if all the people who are supposed to improve it have hosed off to britain or france or germany or wherever Clearly the freedom of movement granted by joining the EU encourages people to leave their countries, that's why non-EU countries such as Bosnia & Herzegovina, Moldova, Montenegro, Albania, and Macedonia don't suffer from this problem  
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Aug 18, 2018 02:51
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Antifa Poltergeist posted:Current UN secretary and world's most useless man Antonio Guterres oversaw the euro transition in portugal, as he was the PM at the time. When he signed all the paperwork and dotted all the i's , he famously said "blessed euro,we live and die by it." and everyone just assume he was being glib.But since he was part of the workgroup that was responsible for Portugal's EU membership bid since the 70's , you can bet your rear end he knew exactly what he was talking about.everyone inside knew, that the euro was a clusterfuck and that it would loving burn us alive if it ever went tits up, or even had a slight hickup. I think that the economic crisis proved that the euro was pushed too hard, far and wide and was a direct contributor to the economic problems in Greece, Spain, and Portugal, and it's bad that it is mandatory for all incoming countries to adopt it.
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Aug 18, 2018 02:59
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Coohoolin posted:It's not mandatory. It has never been mandatory. Christ. All EU members which have joined the bloc since the signing of the Maastricht treaty in 1992 are legally obliged to adopt the euro once they meet the criteria, since the terms of their accession treaties make the provisions on the euro binding on them. Christ. The 2018 Convergence Report: Review of Member States' progress towards euro adoption “All Member States, except the United Kingdom and Denmark, are required to adopt the euro and join the euro area. The UK and Denmark are therefore not covered by the report. Denmark and the UK negotiated opt-out arrangements in the Maastricht Treaty.” twoday has issued a correction as of 03:18 on Aug 18, 2018 |
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Aug 18, 2018 03:09
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If I were Scottish this would be of particular concern to me.
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Aug 18, 2018 03:22
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Alright, well I'm clearly not convincing anyone of anything here, or even understanding what you guys are saying, appare Do any of you malcontents have ideas about how to fix all these problems? How do you suggest we get ourselves out of this mess?
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Aug 18, 2018 03:45
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Often Abbreviated posted:I don't have a particular utopia I'm pushing, I have a philosophy. If someone else's utopia matches my philosophy closely enough, I'll sign up. From what I understand, your philosophy seems to be that prosperity could best be achieved when migration is discouraged, and the EU is dissolved into a collection of unassociated ethnostates. Is that correct?
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Aug 18, 2018 17:23
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Often Abbreviated posted:The connection you're missing is all the previous stuff that's been posted I dunno, a dozen times by different posters already? About how the euro system is designed to systematically bankrupt the periphery to enrich a tiny financial class in the middle. Which creates lots of desperate, despairing people whose complaints are ignored by the authorities, which leads to radicalism. As leftwing radicalism is effectively controlled and suppressed, fascism is the outcome. It goes Poverty -> Disenfranchisement -> Radicalism -> Fascism. Yes, actually. Reminds me of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucriJDhgRmA
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Aug 18, 2018 19:13
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A Buttery Pastry posted:That, and making movement the other way a viable option too. Otherwise you're only changing a very small part of the economic coercion; merely expanding how many people can choose between a few limited paths. Like, the system should move towards one where the economic argument for moving to any given country should be irrelevant - people would just choose to go based on personal reasons, rather than systemic ones . Like, fair enough, if you want to be a vintner you probably have to move somewhere they actually make wine, but wanting to make a decent living should be an option anywhere. Often Abbreviated posted:No, my reaction is that they should have the option of choosing where they want to live without the economic coercion of their own state being undermined. Actual choice, not the fake choice of "move to a rich country or starve". So that you might find people from the periphery moving to other countries in the periphery, perhaps to learn the language or experience the culture. I don't begrudge the people who've moved to the rich countries to find work at all, nor do I want rid of them. If the borders come down again I certainly don't want anyone getting shipped anywhere. But if we're going to have free movement, I want the choice to be real for everyone, not just the rich. On this point I agree with both of you. But where I disagree with Often Abbreviated is that I believe that EU, despite its problems, is enabling this to some degree. I look at the economies of Eastern European countries which have joined the EU relatively recently such as Poland, Romania, etc., and think that they have been improving drastically as a result of joining the EU, leveling out the playing field for their inhabitants to some extent, and allowing for this model of movement to slowly overcome the economically motivated one. The map I posted earlier that showed the non-EU Balkan countries shows that those countries have double the rates of economic migrants, while their economies have not had the same benefits as those that joined the EU. And yes, I am aware this is not applicable to the Mediterranean countries which have been made to suffer through austerity, but I think there are two different mechanisms at play regarding the economies of the Mediterranean austerity countries and the eastern European ones, and the main difference is the imposition of austerity (to which I am opposed). Edit: Balkan, not Baltic twoday has issued a correction as of 20:26 on Aug 18, 2018 |
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Aug 18, 2018 20:15
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I find the Visegrad Group to be an interesting phenomenon within the EU in recent years. Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, and Slovakia created the V4 as an initiative to work more closely on matters of defense, economics, etc. The countries share some cultural heritage and currently have governments with similar political beliefs in power (which I am not a fan of). Functioning as a cohesive clique within the EU they have a lot more influence and are more capable of achieving common goals than they would have as isolated countries. It echoes the strategy of the Benelux taken long ago. I think such groupings are a good way to decentralize power within the EU, and counterbalance excessive German influence, while also allowing for a greater degree of sovereignty than say the hypothetical reestablishment of the Austro-Hungarian Empire as an EU member state. It is probably a better way for these countries to achieve their goals than in a totally federal europe or an "every man for himself" Europe. Not sure to what degree this can be or already is implemented in other parts of Europe, though I believe the Scandanavians are doing something similar to a lesser degree.
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Aug 18, 2018 20:47
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https://twitter.com/Senficon/status/1030417408371122177?s=20
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Aug 18, 2018 20:54
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Rome has been in a dilapidated and ruinous state for 1500 years, they wouldn’t have to do much.
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Aug 19, 2018 01:16
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get that OUT of my face posted:this is just a system of alliances that europe has done for centuries, albeit under the framework of a continent-wide bureaucracy. between the Visegrad Group consisting of democratic governments that are either dying or dead and an Austrian government minister calling for a "Rome-Berlin-Vienna axis," this will probably not end well Well that’s the thing, people bitch about Germany having too much power within the EU and say that the EU is the 4th Reich. But if the EU was dissolved tomorrow, do you you think that the countries that want to form an axis of nations would stop doing so? No, they would continue, but they would be even more unincumbered and free to go full Fash without the EU in place, and have fewer restrictions upon them to do so. The whole premise of the EU is to put a set of limitations and controls upon European countries to avoid the sorts of situations that led up to the world wars by avoiding isolationism and encouraging interdependency. You can’t stop European countries from wanting to be fascist and evil, but you can put a system in place that makes this difficult to get away with, and that is one of the main purposes of the EU. Even if the V4 becomes a fascist powerhouse within Europe, it would still be limited by its interconnectivity with other non-fascist EU countries. As Often Abbreviated said, there is the possibility that the entire EU will go fascist, but we’re not there yet. And I would argue that this scenario would potentially happen sooner without the overarching structure of the EU in place. Then you could really have the potential for something like a reunified and fully fascist Austro-Hungarian empire that isn’t beholden to the rules of anyone else, and lets itself become totally totalitarian and evil. Instead, what we have now is just the V4 as lobbying group of restrained powers. twoday has issued a correction as of 01:34 on Aug 19, 2018 |
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Aug 19, 2018 01:22
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Yeah that's part of it, I think. The fact that every European country has a massively castrated army seems to be intentional. Like I said, it's hard to restrain the nationalist tendencies of European countries, but you can try to limit the potential for them to end up in all out war with one another. In that sense the EU has been working well; since its inception there have been zero wars fought between EU countries, in contrast to pretty much every other peeiod of history.
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Aug 19, 2018 01:44
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Aug 19, 2018 01:52
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Relatively, maybe, but if the EU and NATO didn't exist, the scale of European militaries would be entirely different
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Aug 19, 2018 01:54
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Nevertheless projects such as the Polish anime tank continue to de developed https://twitter.com/Bellagiotime/status/1030638285331333122?s=19
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Aug 19, 2018 01:58
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRzvovQK4EQ
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Aug 19, 2018 02:07
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Eurosceptics should try to remember that the primary goal of the EU is to prevent European countries from invading each other (especially to stop Germany from invading France). That may seem like an incredibly low bar for the society of a continent to be built around, and it is. It’s disgusting and tragic that Europeans have the tendency to be so nationalistic and bloodthirsty, but that’s been proven countless times, and the last 2 times that this manifested, almost the entirety of human existence was sucked into devastating warfare and misery. None of the underlying nationalism, greed, rivalry, trauma, animosity, or other forces at play have been resolved since. The EU has been functioning as a shallow stopgap measure to prevent these situations from manifesting again, and to provide a unified front that prevents interference from neighboring powers that could have equally disastrous consequences. Is the EU perfect? No. Is it even good? Not really. But it’s functional in the sense that it is preventing Europe from once again imploding into a violent and horrific nightmare that would entangle every major world power and could easily become a threat to just about all life on earth. That threat is extremely real. Until I hear someone propose a suggestion for a way to reform Europe that also addresses this crucial simmering issue, I guess I find myself on the side of defending the EU’s existence. I also wish that things were managed differently, but I think that the dissolution of the EU would open up a Pandora’s box that would leave you praying for austerity conditions and whatever unsavory limitations you might complain about today. When the ship is barely floating to begin with, I’m not going to go around pulling out the nails that are somehow holding it together. But, if you have a suggestion like that, I’m all ears. Until then, we are all eating out of the same trash can that is the EU. twoday has issued a correction as of 03:36 on Aug 19, 2018 |
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Aug 19, 2018 02:54
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Hmm, those are all good points. I don’t really want to be defending an undemocratic institution, do I? I guess I need to think about this some more.
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Aug 19, 2018 10:53
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Alright, so if your goal is to smash the EU, how do propose doing that? Not to dwell on it, but I think Britain leaving the EU is going to make the undemocratic technocratic machinery of Brussels run even more efficiently, since the British government was one of the most critical voices in the room. Even if a few other countries were to leave, I don't buy the argument that it would trigger a system-wide collapse. The large remnant chunk of the EU would be weakened slightly by the reduction of predatory capital, and euroscepticism would generally increase, but do you think that would be enough to make the whole thing fall apart? I think it might trigger some reform, but not in the good way. I think if France leaves it might make them think twice about the success of the European project, but short of that the countries of northern Europe would probably just double down on the 4th reich mentality, dig in their heels and spitefully work together against former member states, who would find themselves isolated and outnumbered.
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Aug 19, 2018 11:32
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god's plan
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Aug 19, 2018 11:53
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I still maintain my assertion that the bloodthirsty nations of Europe will begin annexing, Lebensrauming, and subjugating each other as soon as they are given half a chance, as they have always done since time immemorial. I mean, the enforcement of austerity is pretty much just a dynamic way of doing that within the constraints of NATO
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Aug 19, 2018 12:09
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twoday posted:Hmm, those are all good points. I don’t really want to be defending an undemocratic institution, do I? I guess I need to think about this some more. I guess I have pretty much been saying this:  Hmm... Edit: I retract my previous statements. The EU is bad. twoday has issued a correction as of 14:13 on Aug 19, 2018 |
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Aug 19, 2018 13:09
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| # ¿ May 17, 2024 01:33 |
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Yeah probablySheng-Ji Yang posted:it's going to brutally collapse during the next recession, dont worry this makes sense
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Aug 19, 2018 13:22
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