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DJ Commie posted:Send me a PM or djcommie at gee male SWEET! Sending one as soon as I hit post. Today was one of those days where I spent the entire day getting seemingly nothing done. All I did was something that should have taken an hour. Also I forgot the SD card for my camera so I didn't take many pics with my phone, the pics I did take aren't great quality. I'm not really very sorry. Some people have been asking me via snapchat, IRC, etc what the hell the hub/drive situation is. The three wheels one each side are always connected together by chains, it's basically like a tracked vehicle except it has wheels. The wheels on each side operate synchronously with each other. Except it one case it looks like a chain broke and put a hole in the bottom of the hull... As for the hardware, it's all off the shelf parts out of a Grainger catalog. Pretty much all the seals and bearings in this thing appear to be common items, I hope.. This is looking forward on the passenger side, we're looking at the drive for the front passenger wheel.  On the outside of the hull is a hub with a seal and a bearing, which I'll show later. The shaft goes through the hull, through the frame, through that sprocket, and into a pillow block bearing on the inner frame rail. Most of the fighting (probably all of it), was pressing (with a BFH) the shaft through the sprocket. There are two issues, not enough room to get a good swing on the hammer, and the frame is flexy so it absorbs much of the hammer blow. Really frustrating. This is a hub removed from the vehicle.  In the center we have the hub with shaft through it, the left side would be outside the hull with the flange mating to the hull. On the outside, the tube with the wheel flange slides on, on the inside the sprocket slides on. Really simple design, really miserable when rusty. Fortunately it was fairly trivial to use a puller to get the outside wheel flange pieces off. I haven't looked too closely in the hubs yet, but it looks like a single C-clip with a bearing and grease seal to keep the water out. Should be easy to rebuild. I started on the passenger side and it went OK, I had to torch the hell out of all three.  First I put a wet rag against the tub. Oh also, that's the center sprocket, it has two gears since it takes power from the transmission and distributes it via the other sprocket.  Next I put a piece of flashing over the wet rag to shield the flame from my torch, I had the hose dripping on the flashing to help keep everything cool, it worked pretty well. You may notice the bit of shiny shaft in this picture, I use plumbers sand paper tape to polish whatever I can, every little bit helps. Not trying to push rusty shaft through a tight hole has gotta help. They got progressively harder as I went along, I'm thinking it's due to fewer things holding the frame to the hull make the frame flexier so it absorbs more of the impact.  one down  Two down  passenger side done! The driver side shafts WOULD. NOT. BUDGE. It was clear I wasn't transmitting any useful force from the hammer into the shaft, I was just wasting my time. I decided what I needed was something sturdy to hit against, I devised a plan. I took some pieces of scrap metal and welded them into sort of a stand so the frame was sitting on the stand with the thing turned sideways.  As you can see here, any hammering I did on the shaft actually transmitted useful force into the sprocket since the frame is essentially sitting on the ground. It still took way more abuse to remove the driver side shafts. I'm assuming it was probably sitting sideways and that side was submerged for longer or something. It wasn't until the end of the day I devised this plan so I only had the energy to get one of them out, I have faith the other two will come out tomorrow with some heat and some abuse, this system seems to work well.  Bam, center hub is gone!  Do not disturb the sleeping Attex  That's what the stand looked like after being modified to not kill me. It's actually really stable, I spent a lot of time sitting up in the hull and it wasn't scary at all, really stable.  It looks like there was an old repair on the front right that I probably cracked with all the hammering, bummer. The back corners have aluminum flashing on them, likely to prevent this kind of damage. Maybe I'll do something similar for the front. I've been wondering how to drive the thing without doing this type of damage. Oh yea, someone was asking about the tires, here's a pic. It might be too crappy to make out, I'll try to remember to grab one with my camera tomorrow.  EDIT: Forgot the obligatory cat picture 
chrisgt fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Jun 10, 2018 |
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Jun 10, 2018 02:55
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Didn't get a whole ton done today. Went kayaking, sat in the sun, drove around in the Mercedes.... That's about it. Tomorrow I'll get the remaining two hubs out. Then I really need to disassemble the transmission and find out what bearings and seals I need to rebuild it. Things I need are: springs for the clutch (or maybe a whole new clutch). Seals and bearings for the hubs, inner pillow block bearings, and transmission. Chains and master links. All the nuts and bolts need to be replaced, I need to do an inventory and make a big McMaster-Carr order. I can get nuts/bolts locally but they're expensive. I need rope caulk or whatever you call that stuff for sealing the hubs to the body. Need an ABS repair kit, the previous owner used bondo and it's holding about as well as you'd expect. Otherwise it's just stuff here and there. I need a new ignition switch, wire to build a new wiring harness, starter solenoid, throttle cable.... I dunno. I do have to do some welding repair on the frame, there are some terrible design decisions that need to be re-done. While I'm waiting for parts to arrive I can do that, paint the frame, clean and disassemble all the hubs, etc. The big expense is going to be wheels and tires. The three-lug hubs it has are obsolete, I don't have a drill press or way to cut nice circles out, so I can't really efficiently make 6 adapters. Some companies sell them, etc. I just need to find the best/cheapest route. No matter how I cut it, will probably cost me $600-$800 for wheels/tires :/ Overall with the cost of purchase and parts I'm almost certain I'll be in under $1500 on the whole project, which, if I was actually looking to buy one, would be a fantastic deal. These 6 wheelers are insanely expensive. It's not that I don't want it, I'm super stoked and already have daydreams of putting an outboard on and driving around the lake, it's just an expense I wasn't expecting. Some people see feral dogs and save them, I see automotive stuff and have to save it. That's why I post here and not in PI. Although I can post my cat in here, so... win. I did disassemble a hub today to see what's inside, they're about as simple as I expected.  What's really odd is the bearing (6205) lists metric dimensions and the seal (63x430) lists SAE dimensions. Not sure what to think about that... I guess I don't really care, I'll just order those part numbers and roll with it. The original bearings are metal shielded, is there any reason metal shielded is better than plastic shielded bearings? Is there a better option than either of those? I don't know a whole lot about bearings. Pic of the bearing (kinda hard to see, 6205Z)  Pic of the seal   
chrisgt fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Jun 11, 2018 |
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Jun 11, 2018 00:47
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chrisgt posted:The big expense is going to be wheels and tires. The three-lug hubs it has are obsolete, I don't have a drill press or way to cut nice circles out, so I can't really efficiently make 6 adapters. Some companies sell them, etc. I just need to find the best/cheapest route. No matter how I cut it, will probably cost me $600-$800 for wheels/tires :/ Are you including having adapters laser cut in your options? The cad would be super simple and they're not big.
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Jun 11, 2018 11:38
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cakesmith handyman posted:Are you including having adapters laser cut in your options? The cad would be super simple and they're not big. No because honestly, I don't feel like loving around that much. Some dude online sells adapters for $150 which is probably about what it would cost me by the time I had them fabbed, plus it would be easier and faster just to hit ORDER. This project is dragging more than I expected and I need to get other projects in the shop. I'm delusional and thought that since it's small it would just be easy  My girlfriend was the one who actually egged me on to buy it, so fortunately there aren't complaints from that department
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Jun 11, 2018 14:53
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Video of the carnage after partially disassembling the transmission: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaUU6nKXqR8 It doesn't fit in the chronological sequence putting it at the top, but that's ok. Some people are lazy and just look at pictures or videos and don't want to read the words. I'm one of those people. Got the remaining axles out, what a miserable pain. Back on the stand with no wheels.  All the water on the floor is from using the hose to keep the body cool while torching the sprockets. Frame out  There are some really braindead design decisions here, it's kinda flimsy, etc. One thing that has to be fixed, though, is the transmission mount. The cradle has to slide back and forth to adjust (not really sure why, tbh), but the design is just terrible.  For some reason that's beyond me, these aren't welded all the way to the ends and as you'd expect, broke off on both sides. Maybe some mechanical engineering intern who just learned about stress risers designed this. Anyway, I'm gonna make one out of heavier angle, weld it all the way to the ends, and put gussets on the ends to keep this from happening again. Then I decided I needed to take the drat transmission apart. I have a phobia of transmissions, no good reason, there's just a lot of parts in them. I started by taking all the bolts out and slowly pulling things apart, it's 95% apart now and a fairly simple design. besides needing every bearing, it needs shift fork fingers which I can make. I still have to take the clutch apart, but I need to build a tool to keep the spring from killing me (and so I can get it back together again...). These are the planetaries, the big round things on the ends of the transmission with the brake rotors.  They're both in decent condition. Obviously I'll have to polish the brake rotors, but a good dunk in a bucket of diesel or something and everything will be cleaned up. The only issue with the planeries I have is this...  This is one of the axles the sun gears ride on, not sure what happened there. Picture is taken about half way through sanding and polishing, now the bearings ride smooth. Kinda weird, gonna forget about it as there isn't much I can do. The face place is also a bit worn, again, nothing I can do there. Just hope for the best.  The dick in the vise, trying to figure out how the hell it comes apart. Hint, from the other end, dummy.  This is the shaft that goes through the entire transmission that the planetaries attach to, there's a bite taken out of the keyway. It's weird because that whole keyway is always engaged in the forward/reverse dog assembly... There are signs of someone having taken it apart before, but how anyone breaks that is beyond me. fortunately I can buy a key.  Transmission off the Titanic... This thing is nasty. I'm super lucky that all the gears are in good shape, the bearings were all really bad. The input shaft bearings were completely seized and when I was rotating the clutch I was actually turning the shaft inside the bearings. Fortunately it doesn't appear to have been run this way, probably happened while sitting.  Here's a partial exploded view of the transmission... Some pieces are chilling out of frame. I hope I can figure out how it goes back together in a week when I finally get the bearings... 
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Jun 12, 2018 01:05
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If you don’t dress up as a Banana split on your first test run... I will be Vastly disappointed!
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Jun 12, 2018 03:33
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It is sort of incredible just how much engineering went into this thing that is at first glance a bathtub with some quad poo poo farted into it.
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Jun 12, 2018 03:35
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This is a cool project. You should set up an electrolysis bath for all of that rusty poo poo. Seems like this kind of thing would be a perfect candidate for it.
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Jun 12, 2018 03:54
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Black88GTA posted:This is a cool project. You should set up an electrolysis bath for all of that rusty poo poo. Seems like this kind of thing would be a perfect candidate for it. Bonus points if you can use it as it's own bath by cleaning the parts inside of itself!
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Jun 12, 2018 04:15
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Black88GTA posted:This is a cool project. You should set up an electrolysis bath for all of that rusty poo poo. Seems like this kind of thing would be a perfect candidate for it. He should just convert the whole tub into an electrolysis bath. edit ^fuuuck yooou.
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Jun 12, 2018 05:21
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ahahaha that'd be hilarious. I actually didn't even think about electrolysis, I was just going to sandblast. But now that you mention it, I'm kinda tempted. Put that 2400kva backup power supply transformer to some good use  Black88GTA posted:This is a cool project. You should set up an electrolysis bath for all of that rusty poo poo. Seems like this kind of thing would be a perfect candidate for it. Holy gently caress I haven't seen you forever, how you been? BMW still chooching along?
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Jun 12, 2018 13:03
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Seat Safety Switch posted:It is sort of incredible just how much engineering went into this thing that is at first glance a bathtub with some quad poo poo farted into it. Here I was thinking it was remarkably simple but yeah that transmission is something else. Also I know the backup engine is running but I still have a sick desire to see a CR500 motor stuffed into this bathtub for science. Or some sort of Captain Insano-esque snowmobile motor.
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Jun 12, 2018 13:22
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There are plenty of guys who do put massive engines in these, if you go on youtube and search attex racing, there are some hilarious results.Seat Safety Switch posted:It is sort of incredible just how much engineering went into this thing that is at first glance a bathtub with some quad poo poo farted into it. dear god yes I made negative progress this morning, the machine shop can't find half the bearings in the transmission, their bearing supplier was like "that's not even a bearing part number," so it must be some custom poo poo, I dunno. I started to organize the bearings neatly, clean everything up and measure them all. By start I mean I thought about it. I need to make a list of the bearings they can't find and what substitutes would work. Like the correct ID but an OD that's too small. That would work because I could use a loop of the right size shim stock or machine a spacer or something to fit it in the bore. Perhaps a bearing that's the right size but the thickness is wrong. One bearing could be a little bit thicker without much issue, they could all be thinner with the correct spacers and it would work fine. I didn't do any of that, though. My dad's chevy 2500 broke. The back gas tank strap broke which ripped one of the already rusty fuel lines apart. I went back home, got some tools, went to napa, bought a lot of stuff, went back to the truck and replaced the fuel lines. Ratchet strapped the tank up. Drove the truck home where I could use air tools to get the rusty broken piece of poo poo bolt out of the old fuel tank hanger, then drove back to drop off the truck and get my car. Bye day. nother picture of tux 
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Jun 12, 2018 21:25
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Weird bearings? Talk to Slidebite. I think he's got Plat, if not make a post in the ABAI thread and he should come around if he's not already reading this one.
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Jun 12, 2018 22:20
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chrisgt posted:ahahaha that'd be hilarious. I actually didn't even think about electrolysis, I was just going to sandblast. But now that you mention it, I'm kinda tempted. Put that 2400kva backup power supply transformer to some good use Ha, yeah...not since the NEAI in...was that 2015 I think? I might be wrong on that. I'm not on the forums as much as I used to be, but am still here sometimes looking at stuff and wishing I could take on a sweet project.  The BMW is still going, but uhh, needs some work. Like probably engine-out work. Something I'm not equipped to do here very well, so it's having to wait. Anyway, re: bearings - have you looked at the online bearing finder tools? I think most of the major bearing mfgs have them online. This was just the first one I found. They even let you input a range of acceptable sizes for ID, OD, and thickness, so you don't have to nail an exact match to whatever .001" happens to be in their catalog.
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Jun 12, 2018 23:33
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Black88GTA posted:Ha, yeah...not since the NEAI in...was that 2015 I think? I might be wrong on that. I'm not on the forums as much as I used to be, but am still here sometimes looking at stuff and wishing I could take on a sweet project. 2015 sounds about right, it would be cool to have another neai get together, but things have changed, not super likely to happen. We still chill in IRC, though. Yea, I'm looking online now. VXB has one of the bearings I need, albeit shielded, whereas the transmission uses open. I could either rip the shields out (which is really hard with metal shields), or just run it as is. Really no reason not to, oil doesn't have to get on the other side of them. There's still one more bearing in the transmission I can't get out because it has like a 4" meaty as gently caress snapring holding it in place and my snapring pliers can't handle it. I don't wanna lose an eyeball, so I have to go find the proper tool. I did little research at first because it's easier to drop a box of parts on the counter at the machine shop and have the wizard figure it out for me, sadly he was laid off due to lack of work this winter. Real shame, that guy was amazing, I need to figure out where he works now. I've brought seriously broken poo poo to that guy and he does some magic old school machine stuff and it's healed. I've always been fascinated by machine work. I'm glad I got the truck running again, my parents are great to me and the least I can do is fix their broken poo poo, but holy gently caress WHY would anyone want to be a mechanic in the rust belt? What a miserable task. I did it for a year, winter it's road salt and rust in your face, summer it's just rust in your face. Nothing ever comes apart easily, it always takes 3 times longer than it should with massive collateral damage. Kudos to the folks who take the profession, but wow, I don't get it.
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Jun 13, 2018 00:46
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A while ago at work I got to drive a slightly fatter version of this. A real slug, but it was 8x8! Took it through some nasty swamps, but man it could not climb a dune for crap.
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Jun 13, 2018 02:47
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I have vague recollections of my old engine builder having one of those things and there was an issue with the bearings being weird assed. I think he did eventually find all but one.
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Jun 13, 2018 02:53
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Kaptainballistik posted:I have vague recollections of my old engine builder having one of those things and there was an issue with the bearings being weird assed. Commodore_64 posted:A while ago at work I got to drive a slightly fatter version of this. A real slug, but it was 8x8! Took it through some nasty swamps, but man it could not climb a dune for crap. I started by cleaning up the transmission pieces since the grime was getting on my nerves. I harvested some diesel since it's pretty good at cutting through grease and grime, then cleaned everything up.  MUCH better. Since my snap ring pliers aren't skookum enough to get the circlip holding the bigass bearing in place, I took a pair of needle nose pliers I never use and filed the tips into snap ring pliers. I wore safety goggles and a face shield, but the stupid thing came out.  The transmission side of the CVT clutch was all rusty and didn't slide on the shaft, so I had to get that apart. I took some threaded rod through the holes so I could let the big spring out slowly. I just removed the bolts one at a time and changed them out for the threaded rod, assembly should be opposite of disassembly (tm)  I thought the spring looked like a mean bastard, but holy poo poo, I had no idea it was this mean.  I wire wheeled all the rust off the clutch things and uhh... this is bad.  I'm not sure what I'm gonna do about that, I'd ideally like to find replacements. I can't run it as is, that'll chew the belt all to poo poo. Maybe JB weld is the answer here. Welding or brazing likely isn't. First off it would take forever and suck balls to sand down, but it's so wide spread the heat would warp the plate and it would never work right again. (it might not anyway...) All cleaned up, I measured and tagged the bearings and brought them up to my desk.  While searching for the parts, I realized that I assumed the inner and outer planetary bearings were the same, they aren't, fortunately I caught that while transcribing what bearings I needed to paper. The final list of what I need, including the flange mount bearings for the inner end of the axles. Putting the axles back into the vehicle seems years away at this point...  I used this site to search the bearings by size, but ultimately ended up just buying all but one (the one Kaptainballistik is talking about) on Grainger. The weird bearing out is ... weird. I found a site that cross-referenced the old NICE bearings number and confirmed I measured pretty close with my machinists' approximators (calipers). The measurements are: ID: 1.75" OD: 3.093" W: 0.875 Yes, 3.093". It's nothing converted to metric, it's no even amount of 64ths or even 128ths, nothing close to it in size even commercially exists except... Amazon to the rescue. They actually have what appears to be a NOS bearing. It doesn't list the size, they don't show a picture of the part number on the box, but it's all I got so here we go. I don't like NOS bearings. If moisture gets into them they obviously rust, but they can also be dropped. Dropping a bearing actually damages them, the balls are so hard when they smash into the race they can actually cause false brinelling. I'm sure it'll be fine, I just worry about such things. I'm still looking for chain idlers. It's not that I can't find any, it's that I don't understand chain sizing. I'm pretty sure it's 420 pitch chain (because that's what I used on my motorized bicycle 10 years ago), but it's gotta go by another name based on what I'm finding... More research needed. I also haven't found seals for the hubs yet either. There are sites to search for seals by size. The hub seal does have the part number 63x430. I can't find it for sale anywhere, but searching that number brings up all the dimensions. I should be able to find something.
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Jun 13, 2018 23:33
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It's hilarious reading this in parallel to a Stalwart restoration thread on PistonHeads. On the bearing, can you sleeve the OD down, or machine the bore it fits in out, to suit something readily available?
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Jun 13, 2018 23:48
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Can you sleeve the clutch ring? Not just plain JB weld but a disc over the top? Or, do you have a lathe or brake lathe?
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Jun 13, 2018 23:53
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InitialDave posted:It's hilarious reading this in parallel to a Stalwart restoration thread on PistonHeads. Fortunately I found the part NOS on amazon, I did find a bearing with a 3.00" OD and about 1/4" thinner, which would have worked. But it's an expensive bearing and since the correct part was available NOS, I'm gonna try that. Metal Geir Skogul posted:Can you sleeve the clutch ring? Not just plain JB weld but a disc over the top? Or, do you have a lathe or brake lathe? I don't have a lathe, but I have a few friends who have offered theirs should the need arise. Welding and machining probably won't work, though since as I said, it'll warp. Well, maybe if I had a really good backing plate and worked slowly at it with a TIG (I don't have a TIG, but do know how to use one), I could pull it off... None of these options sound particularly fun, though. First step is going to a snowmobile repair shop and seeing what they say. I need a spring for the engine side clutch anyway. It's all standard off the shelf snowmobile stuff (in 1968). I know nothing about snowmobiles, so I'm not sure if shaft sizes and whatnot have changed much over the years, but it may be entirely possible to retrofit with something modern. OH also, my girlfriend is working on the seat. She's looking for new fabric or vinyl or whatever and foam, then we'll cut new plywood bases and she'll rebuild them. Should be mint. chrisgt fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Jun 14, 2018 |
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Jun 14, 2018 00:33
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chrisgt posted:brinelling
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Jun 14, 2018 00:37
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Bronze Brazing shouldn’t be too bad for warpage... t’ll be a freshly provided load of post processed equine oats on a cold morning to make dead flat... Ive done my share of Mazda Shiftforks with Bronze. The other thing is, just how. Complex a re-machine job is it to replicate?
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Jun 14, 2018 00:45
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Kaptainballistik posted:Bronze Brazing shouldn’t be too bad for warpage... t’ll be a freshly provided load of post processed equine oats on a cold morning to make dead flat... I'm pretty sure it's stamped out of a plate, it's not machined. I'm not sure silicone bronze would stand up to the abuse of a clutch belt, it's pretty soft. However, if I can't find anything it's likely an approach I'll consider. It's soft enough it doesn't really have to be machined, turn it up on a lathe and use some heavy grit sandpaper and just work it down. I don't have a lathe or a torch, though. So this option would require driving like 600 miles round trip to visit a buddy with said tools. At 17mpg on gas or 25mpg on diesel (or 40 if you believe craigslist ads), that's pretty expensive. I should buy a more efficient car, but I already have too many. Meh. I've just spent a long time poking around looking for hub seals, I found a seal that's thinner, but has the right dimensions that cross references to a 1960's and 1970's jeep rear axle seal. I kinda wanna walk into napa and ask "6 jeep axle seals, please," but I don't wanna pay $400, so I bought them on amazon instead. I could go to a different auto parts store, but they're all over half an hour away, napa is only 10 minutes. Ticked some things off my list, I only need a lot of things still: - All nuts/bolts, I need to get off my rear end and just inventory the big messy pile on the floor and head over to McMaster-Carr - Wheels/tires/adapters. This one is going to hit hard, probably $600-$700 range. By far the biggest expense of the project. - Spring for the engine side clutch and plates for the transmission side clutch, this might end up being really expensive, tomorrow may be the day of reckoning. - Strip calk to seal the hubs, apparently works better than silicone and it's pretty cheap. - Steering pucks for the calipers that act on the planetary gearset brakes. A set of 8 is $64, I could go to the junkyard and cut up old brake pads but that's too much work. I'll pay someone in cheap beer to do this task if you really want. - Rear engine mount. I probably won't find anything that's an exact fit, I'll probably have to fabricobble something new. The crossmember is an awful design anyway(ssswitch was right), but I need to get on parts for that sooner than later. Tomorrow everything needs to be ordered (it won't be, I can dream) - Throttle cable, this is just a bicycle brake cable, I'll buy one at the bike store probably - Battery, I should have ordered it today when I was on amazon, instead I'll wait until they package up the rest of my stuff and then order it so I get the most value out of prime. - Battery cables. I probably have a mile of battery cables from cars I've junked or taken apart or whatever. The stock ones might still conduct electricity, who knows. - Wires and fuses and stuff to rewire the electrical system. I have a mound of subaru wiring harnesses and junk like that, so I'll probably just steal from that. - It needs a headlight, it looks kinda sad with only one (it's like seeing an injured animal, you just wanna make it better  ). I should also have ordered this on amazon today. It's somehow not high priority.I also forgot a cat earlier 
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Jun 14, 2018 04:27
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Ordered almost everything on the list. All that's left: - Transmissions clutch plates aren't available, I'm just gonna send it. Fortunately it's really easy to remove them if I have to try one of the solutions discussed above. All I have to do is disassemble the ENTIRE TRANSMISSION to get them out. - Battery, Advance has them for $20 on sale right now, I just need to drive out there. - Spring for the engine clutch.... oh boy. - Throttle cable, same story, just have to go to the store. So the spring, here's a picture of it in its natural habitat.  It looks ok there, but obviously a torsion spring gets smaller as it's spun and it pulls the dingus end away from the tab and they come off. The main issue is that it's a lovely design, there's a single point of contact and the spring looks like it's designed to ride up and down that metal tab as the roller opens and closes. I guess this work hardens the spring and it broke. All of them on the blown engine, and on the "rebuilt" engine, two on one roller are broken and just one on another. I've been trying to find commercially available drop-in replacements, but striking out pretty bad. It doesn't help that I need both right and left handed springs, since each roller has one of each. Here are the spring measurements.  There are a couple other things I can do. Since I have an abundance of both rollers and springs, I have some room to experiment. I could extend the metal tab down so it engages more of the spring. That won't fix the problem of the springs breaking in the first place, it'll just prolong the agony. It would slightly increase spring tension (due to operating on a shorter arm) resulting in slightly higher RPM operation, I could counter that by adding a weld blob higher up. The more weight in the roller, the harder it pushes into the bell which puts the CVT into a higher gear ratio. I could do a lot of math and figure out exactly how it would change, but I'm not a mechanical engineer, if that isn't already abundantly obvious. I had another idea, but now that I'm about to type it out, it's a bad one, extending the tab is probably the easy solution. It's just mild steel so I can weld it, grind it, and shape it no issue. If I was picky about factory perfect operation I'd go buy a new 6 wheeler, I'm working with 50 year old discontinued parts so.... yea. Why did I do this to myself.
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Jun 14, 2018 21:41
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For what it's worth, there are companies that will custom-make springs if you sent them measurements. Probably not cost-effective depending on your budget, but the option is there. Here's a place that did work for a company I used to work for, just as an example: http://www.currancoilspring.com/ Looks like you get have them quote you some, might be useful just to know and then maybe find something more local to you.
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Jun 14, 2018 23:00
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chrisgt posted:I'm still looking for chain idlers. It's not that I can't find any, it's that I don't understand chain sizing. I'm pretty sure it's 420 pitch chain (because that's what I used on my motorized bicycle 10 years ago), but it's gotta go by another name based on what I'm finding... More research needed. I also haven't found seals for the hubs yet either. There are sites to search for seals by size. The seal is a Garlock Klozure Model 63 seal, size 0430. https://www.garlock.com/en/products/model-63-general-purpose-seal It'll more easily come up if you search for 63x0430. Here's some possible sources: https://www.applied.com/c-brands/c-garlock/21158-0430/Model-63-Single-Lip-Seal/p/101082157 https://www.motionindustries.com/productDetail.jsp?sku=01304942 http://www.pillarsurplus.com/GARLOCK-KLOZURE-SKF-SEAL-63x430-21158-0430-12530-p/l008362.htm and maybe an ebay lead: https://www.ebay.com/itm/GARLOCK-63X0430-21158-0430-KLOZURE-OIL-SEAL-2-seals-NIB-1-250-X-2-062-X-375-/372321743561 Aside from that, you might contact one of Garlock's North America sales reps.
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Jun 15, 2018 01:17
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boxen posted:For what it's worth, there are companies that will custom-make springs if you sent them measurements. Probably not cost-effective depending on your budget, but the option is there. antimatt posted:The seal is a Garlock Klozure Model 63 seal, size 0430. https://www.garlock.com/en/products/model-63-general-purpose-seal As I said in another post, I searched for seals by size on some website and found that it's the same diameters, just a bit wider than the axle seals out of some 60's Jeep. I ordered a pile of jeep axle seals on amazon, should be good to go there. The new seals being a tad skinnier shouldn't matter, this is by no means a precision instrument. The hub bearings are sealed anyway, I actually ordered the T spec ones, meaning the seals in the bearings ride tighter and thus seal better, the pocket between the bearing and the seal has a grease fitting in it, I'm not overly worried. Looking for a second headlight, I know I could just go buy the appropriate size LED, but the old ones look better. From some poking around the internet, I think it's a 4419 sealed beam. the dimensions and current draw check out. What I need, however, is the rubber surround pictured here.  The surround fits around the sealed beam and then pops into place on the attex, I have no idea if such a thing is still available, but there's no way it's an attex specific part. It might not be designed for the purpose of being a light surround, I dunno, I can't find it anywhere.
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Jun 15, 2018 01:44
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chrisgt posted:As I said in another post, I searched for seals by size on some website and found that it's the same diameters, just a bit wider than the axle seals out of some 60's Jeep. I ordered a pile of jeep axle seals on amazon, should be good to go there. The new seals being a tad skinnier shouldn't matter, this is by no means a precision instrument. The hub bearings are sealed anyway, I actually ordered the T spec ones, meaning the seals in the bearings ride tighter and thus seal better, the pocket between the bearing and the seal has a grease fitting in it, I'm not overly worried. Ahh, my apologies. I must've missed that. Doing great so far!
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Jun 15, 2018 01:49
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Can a drum brake spring be made to fit?
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Jun 15, 2018 02:27
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Kaptainballistik posted:Can a drum brake spring be made to fit? I've never seen a torsional spring in drum brakes. I guess I could uncoil one, I think that really weakens them, though. I've never seen a drum brake spring this meaty before either. Granted I've never worked on anything bigger than an f550. You do bring up a good point about using some spring that wasn't designed to be torsional, no reason I can't try to just uncoil it to the right size. I'd want to start with an extension spring since the coils are close together on my clutch spring (but not touching). Now as I stated I'm not a mechanical engineer, but I've seen a lot of springs working on cars, boats, and machinery. Every extension spring I've ever seen has the coils touching each other. Extension springs are wound such that the wire going onto the mandrel actually lags behind the coil just a bit so it's naturally predisposed to squish the coils up tight and return to that state. The issue I see trying to use one as a torsional spring is that the coils will be rubbing on each other every time the weight moves, whereas the current spring has a small gap between coils to avoid that problem. Compression spring obviously wouldn't work since the coils are far apart for the sake of being compressed. For these reasons, I believe the only suitable replacement for a torsional spring is another torsional spring. I should put a scatter shield on the clutch to avoid 1. putting holes in my body and 2. putting holes in the attex body and potentially sinking...
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Jun 15, 2018 03:21
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Hard to tell from that pic but the headlight seal looks like a hydraulic shaft seal, if the one you've got is no good I'd cut it to get a proper look at the cross section. Failing that, inner and outer diameter, height, search for a lip seal, piston seal or wiper seal.
cakesmith handyman fucked around with this message at 08:42 on Jun 15, 2018 |
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Jun 15, 2018 08:40
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Try Lee Spring. They do a lot of custom small stuff.
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Jun 15, 2018 16:39
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Case 350 tractors hold their head and tail light on with a similar setup. Have any measurements?
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Jun 15, 2018 16:54
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cakesmith handyman posted:Hard to tell from that pic but the headlight seal looks like a hydraulic shaft seal, if the one you've got is no good I'd cut it to get a proper look at the cross section. Failing that, inner and outer diameter, height, search for a lip seal, piston seal or wiper seal. cakesmith handyman posted:Hard to tell from that pic but the headlight seal looks like a hydraulic shaft seal, if the one you've got is no good I'd cut it to get a proper look at the cross section. Failing that, inner and outer diameter, height, search for a lip seal, piston seal or wiper seal. Also the more I think of it, the stock charging system is pathetic and I really should convert to LEDs. Since I'd still have the challenge of mounting a light without drilling new holes, I could possibly find a hydraulic shaft seal of some sort to do the trick. DJ Commie posted:Case 350 tractors hold their head and tail light on with a similar setup. Have any measurements? The seal is almost cracked in half anyway, so sure, I'll help it along for science. The headlight opening in the attex is 5.75" and the major OD of the sealed beam is about 5.65" I have two pictures of the seal thing, let me know if I did a good job depicting what it looks like, or if there's a way I could photograph it for better clarity. In the first picture, inside means it's inside the loop, touching the light. Outside means it's outside of the loop, touching the body. The second picture is simply the cross section stuck onto the sealed beam to give a better view of what it looks like installed.   The left side in both pictures is the front of the headlight, the right side is the back of the headlight. The groove to the left, that I labeled "fits in Attex body" is what would have the 5.75" diameter. sharkytm posted:Try Lee Spring. They do a lot of custom small stuff. So today I went and spent half an hour or so adding about 40 thou to the bottoms of the spring perches so the broken springs have something to contact. I'm no artist with the flux core welder (I'm too cheap to buy a tank of gas), but it came out really well. After doing that I went on ebay and bought a rebuild kit plus all the springs for the clutch for $24 shipped. I'm a loving idiot. All is not lost, I can just take the carrier things out of the clutch on the blown engine and use them with the brand new springs designed exactly for this application. My repair still looks pretty good and would probably work. I might run it a while just to be stubborn. With my tail between my legs on that one, I noticed that my engine is missing the air ducting on the sides of the cylinder and the top, the blown engine had the side pieces. So I had to pull the carburetor off because it goes between the carb gaskets. I don't have replacements, but the old ones didn't tear coming apart, I put a thin layer of aviation form-a-gasket and it should be fine. I'll make one for the top out of flashing, it won't look pretty, but it'll duct the air so the engine doesn't overheat and melt, a reputation they have in snowmobiles. I got little else done today, I spent most of the day working on outboard engines and putting my sequoia to work launching boats. I gotta make attex money somehow. Tomorrow is more of the same. EDIT: I did take a picture of one of the thingy-ma-shits the springs ride on, but it's not on my phone. It updated to oreo the other day and now it doesn't work properly anymore. I hate technology. chrisgt fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Jun 16, 2018 |
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Jun 16, 2018 03:46
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Those are fantastic pictures thank you, unfortunately I retract my suggestion, I've never seen a seal like that. Take those pictures and the seal to some place that does old car parts may be more successful as you say.
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Jun 16, 2018 10:25
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I have had really good luck with Century Spring in the past. They make a ton of stuff, check out their torsion spring search, feed it your torsion spring details and see if anything returns. http://www.centuryspring.com/torsion PS I love this thread.
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Jun 16, 2018 15:42
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The headlight grommet looks really similar to a standard 4" tail light grommet that's used on trailers and truck utility bodies. You can find these cheap in any truck supply place locally if you want to look at one. I can't find one for a 5.75", though there are headlight mounting grommets in other sizes on antique tractor sites. Possibly the easiest/cheapest solution is the 4" grommet if the shape and profile will work, cut and epoxied into the necessary diameter.
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Jun 16, 2018 17:49
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:I have had really good luck with Century Spring in the past. They make a ton of stuff, check out their torsion spring search, feed it your torsion spring details and see if anything returns. Thanks, I'll poke around that site if for some reason the rebuild kit I bought was for the wrong clutch (which is entirely possible, I have no idea what I'm looking at anyway). It's also possible the seller has no idea what they're selling. The random magic of 50 year old stuff can go both ways. angryrobots posted:The headlight grommet looks really similar to a standard 4" tail light grommet that's used on trailers and truck utility bodies. You can find these cheap in any truck supply place locally if you want to look at one. Rubber can be pretty successfully superglued, so probably the winning solution here. I should convert to LED as well which means a stock mounting grommet (so that's what that part is called) wouldn't work anyway. I spent the entire day on the water making money, tomorrow is Father's day, but I might go sandblast the sprockets and stuff. With any luck, if it doen't happen tomorrow, I'll just wire wheel. I also need to call Grainger on Monday since they shipped all but one type of bearing, the same bearing is used internally in the transmission and in the planetaries so I literally can't reassemble anything without it. It's not a rare part, if they don't wanna get it to me in a timely fashion I'll go amazon prime it...
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Jun 16, 2018 22:48
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