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Spiderfist Island
Feb 19, 2011
Is there any canonical stuff about how the Lunar Empire interacts with the Western Henotheist / Monotheist / Atheist traditions and cultures? Obviously the Empire wants to eventually integrate their cultures into the Lunar Way, but the Empire's kind of separated from direct contact with the West by Dorastor and the remnants of the Syndic's Ban, so it's not as pressing as the ongoing theological struggles in Sartar or the Holy Country. I'm guessing at least some of the attempts are similar to how the Aeolian Church conflates Orlanth and the Invisible God as one and the same, but that sort of formulation is bound to stick in the craw of the stricter Malkioni or the mortal non-Brithini atheist sects.

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Spiderfist Island
Feb 19, 2011
For a long time I've been thinking about what I'd do to make Kralorela less of a lazy orientalist kludge, and I've sort of got some concepts of what a better version of the area might look like. That being said, I don’t feel like I either have a mastery of Gloranthan lore or Eastern Glorantha lore to defend the proposal, and I’d rather work on my own games and settings when it comes to tabletop design. Anyways, I’d propose these ideas for a NuKralorela profile:
  • The Dragon Empire... really isn't one, at least in the conventional Western/Lunar sense. In my remake it would be organized like the Zhou or Shang dynasties in China, or the Mayan City-State hegemonies, or very early Japan. Sure, there is a Godunya who is the technical absolute divine leader and he empowers Exarchs with temporal and spiritual power, but his rule is very indirect and contractual, and becomes a complex network of magio-political patron-client relationships between different communities the further you go down the chain of command from him. Often Godunya has to appoint prominent rulers as a Hegemon for the purposes of defending the empire in his name, but that doesn't often translate to real success. Kralorela's main strength isn't in its effectiveness at using its resources or cults for state power or war, but because its political structures are resilient and very pliable.

  • Because of the efforts of the Vithelan Pantheon, Kralorela and the northeast seas were not as affected by the Great Darkness as other places, and as a result the area has much stronger connections between the otherworlds and mortal worlds than in many other parts of Genertela. In my version of Kralorelan cultures, there isn't a big divide between the concept of gods or spirits, and what other cultures would call local spirits or demigods and their priesthoods often act as Exarchs or lesser nobility of cities or territories in the Dragon Empire. So, there's a lot of places that act kind of like Alkoth or other between-world cities outside Kralorela.

  • Alongside shamanic magic and mysticism, Kralorelans practice a unique kind of sorcery based around an arcane and extremely complex calendar defined by Godunya and his attendants. The ultimate source of its magic is from draconic mysticism, but this calendric sorcery allows even the non-enlightened to tap into this power. With space, time, intent, subject, and object all intertwined within the calculations of proper ritual actions, it is often difficult to predetermine what the results of such sorcerous spells will be to the average practitioner.

  • Like in the current canon, there's a lot of illegal or underground cults of local gods and spirits and occluded mystical traditions, and those continually lash out against the decentralized order of Kralorela. One major addition would be groups of Vithelan theistic purists working to overthrow Godunya and the prevalence of Draconic Mysticism in the culture, which they believe to have usurped the original “pure” culture of Kralorela after the Dawn and directly caused Kralorela to have suffered so much from external invaders like the God Learners and Sheng Seleris over the ages. These groups may or may not have ties to the cults exiled to the Kingdom of Ignorance.

  • This Kralorela I've proposed is based off of historical periods a lot closer in line with the usual Late Bronze Age trappings of the rest of the setting compared to its current Han-Tang pastiche, and isn't as "eternal" or history-less in how its portrayed. If a writer also applied some aspects of what’s been established as canon in the Kingdom of Ignorance, Kralorela could also be more multicultural in its real-world inspirations and take from Mesoamerica and stuff like Dunsany’s works.
I’m not East Asian though, so I’m just as much an outsider to the cultural traditions Kralorela is currently based off of as the writers at Chaosium. Hopefully this is a little less one-dimensional a portrayal of the area, though.

Spiderfist Island
Feb 19, 2011

reignonyourparade posted:

The Zistor project also wasn't just about making a new god. There were potentially factions among the God-Forgot Godlearners interested in building a replacement god, but their pitch to the rest of the god learners was basically "our mathematical models suggest there's another pair of Forces beyond the 8 forces we know about. Our theory is chaos is one half of it but there's a missing Purification rune that's the other half. We're going to try to create this missing rune."

The end result of "there is no such thing as absolute purity" is a cool part of Glorantha's anthropological subtext.

I have a dumb personal Glorantha canon that the Law, Chaos, Moon, and Dragon runes are all diametrically opposed runes of the same type- let's call them "cosmic runes"- that are associated with fundamental forces or forms of mysticism beyond the elemental runes or power runes. Law's the most boring since it basically is just cosmic order and cultural ritual and is related to "regular" forms of magic like sorcery and also Arkati mysticism, but it's still a rune in the same category as Chaos. Moon and Dragon both exist outside a Law-Chaos paradigm, but in mutually incompatible ways that aren't easily understood by people who aren't mystics or Illuminated. Under my fan canon, the reason for Arkat's pursuit of Draconic mysticism is because he figures out that it's the 'natural' opposing cosmic force to Moon via the history of Sheng Seleris even if it's not immediately evident.

Spiderfist Island
Feb 19, 2011
It's deeply ironic how similar the whole metatextual situation regarding the Yelmalio vs. Elmal thing is to the Goddess Switch. Yelmalio and Elmal are both the same kind of god, and also can't really fulfill each other's roles within their respective cultures/pantheons.

This brings up the grim question of who's trying to subsume Elmal to Yelmalio, and what sort of devious God-Learner Heroquesting they're using to do such a thing.

Spiderfist Island
Feb 19, 2011
I suppose this is the thread to complain about RuneQuest: Adventures in Glorantha's mechanics, right?

I get that it's the Chaosium BRP system, and that it's going to be grognardy by default, but... I don't know. Back when I saw early development shots and their sketch of the new character sheet with the Wu Xing-style Element Wheel and the opposed Power Runes, it looked like it was going to be doing a lot more of a change: hopefully, taking more from later forms of Pendragon in terms of complexity and something a lot more modern, accessible, and streamlined.

But, at least from my perspective, it wasn't. I don't know if it's just me being spoiled, but having to look at a massive table for the core mechanic in a Quickstart rules PDF is a real drag, and it'd immediately kill off any interest in my local player base. There's some real innovative gems in the design directions for RQAiG that they could have made more holistic and push out to the forefront for the first "new" edition of RuneQuest in ages, but it just is still an unsatisfyingly kludgy 70's system.

And yes, I do know about 13AiG and Heroquest. They just aren't what I'm looking for, either. I've played 13th Age, but it kind of just answered for me that after so long playing them, I'm 110% tired of d20 class-and-level systems. And Heroquest is more than a little obtuse to get into at this time, and was always too free-form for me.

I have pretty concrete ideas of how to make a more accessible and stylistically appropriate system for Glorantha, but I don't have the cachet and I dunno if I'd ever be in a position to develop it.

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Spiderfist Island
Feb 19, 2011

Haystack posted:

Yeah, Runequest: Glorantha is kind of a whiff. Among other things, there's a real disconnect between how involved character creation is vs how easy it is to be one-shotted.

Even if you're never gonna make it, I'd be interested in hearing your ideas.

Sure! Here's my attempt to expound on some elements of them:

  1. De-Granularize the System. BRP is filled with fiddly rules that scan from the origins of the system being in the hands of SCA enthusiasts from the 1970s. Take a big step back, ask yourself if hit points per body part, SIZ vs. STR vs. CON, and shopping-lists of magic spells at hand are needed, and start cutting, cutting, cutting. Seriously consider if roll-under percentile is still a good fit for the game, mathematics at hand, and power levels you want to display. I am greatly in favor of moving to a step-die system, making every system and check holistic, and having stats that are more "Paper Mario" scale than what is present at hand (so, 1/5 to 1/10th what is given). Quicker math + less cruft and sacred cow options == faster gameplay.

  2. Look at Systems Published since 2000, for Goodness's Sakes. Get rid of the skill lists and replace them with backgrounds (with judicious guidelines on how to define and invoke them, of course). Change the in-house writing style to fluff text clearly separate from keywords. Build NPCs using a simplified scaffold and only several actions, depending on if they're a combat and/or a social encounter (do not make them equivalent to a PC anymore, I swear to Arkat, it's never been worth it). Encounter math. Encounter math. Encounter math. 4th Edition D&D has been dead for over a decade, yet no major studio's truly internalized any of its lessons. Speaking of which, develop encounter rules for exploration, travel, and social conflict that don't suck and that fit into the game as a whole.

  3. Mix Free-Form with Cut-and-Dry. We don't need ten thousand different variations of "do a thing" or "better weapon" or "zap/burn this guy." General rune and battle magic should be well-codified, simple, and a short list of powers (unique actions) with structured guidelines on how to extrapolate to actions appropriate to a given character should be available. This system could also apply to mundane unique talents such as combat styles, cryptic languages, crafting etiquette, etc. Add degrees of success similar to 10+ results in Powered By the Apocalypse games to powers, whether generic or specific.

    Moreover, whether a character can do supernatural stuff should be approached based on what sorts of magic the character is trained or initiated into. An Orlanth devotee shouldn't have to waste a slot and rules space on being able to say "I roll Might + Storm and Spend 1 Magic to jump really high." It's just a given that they can enhance a skill check that way. ('Making Better Decisions' with Willpower plus Storm isn't within a Wind Lord's purview, in contrast.) For really unique or above-baseline magic stuff, characters should draw on their unique Cult magic talents.

  4. Strong Fundamentals. Make sure that interaction with the world is possible and interesting enough for mere mortal characters. Turn every check into a holistic variant on the core mechanic. Standardize your keywords. Have all actions (natural, supernatural, instantaneous or ritual/process, etc.) use the same descriptive framework, similar to D&D 4E's innovation there.

    Simplify combat math to the actions– center it around what's called a "bout" sometimes in fighting sports, and use "guard points" or something similar but refilling as the majority of a character's hit points. I am, of course, going to desperately ask you now to study how Sekiro handles sword fights and make that element of not landing lethal blows until one side loses control and a lethal blow takes most or all of someone's HP out a core element of the new system. Make critical hits and body part effects an aftermath of a fight to speed things along. Additionally, you can use this aftermath system to vary just how lethal you want your game to play.

  5. Runes as the Center of All Stats. It's time. We already have Elemental Affinities and Power Rune affinities as base elements of a character. Now, let's just make those core stats and have them replace POW. We've already got a list of eight to nine major cultures, right? Have that be the first thing chosen in character creation. Culture denotes what runes a character can normally be associated with, what cults/sorceries/spirits/mysticisms they may have access to, and a list of simplified backgrounds with skill bonus cues. For non-Lunar cultures, the "middle wheel" Element could be replaced by another Rune in the culture typically associated with governing the elements (Law in Orlanthi and Western cultures, Dragon in Kralorelan cultures and certain Dragon Pass residents, or gods forbid, Chaos in Fonrit) and that has its own connotations and drawbacks.

    Along with determining your Element and Power dominances, a character would also always be physically/mortally defined by a few extra runes similar to the old ability scores. Simplify the primary 'mortal' stats, and tie them to runes (seems weird? Well, physical might can be connected to the Power rune or maybe the now-disused Umath rune, the Communication rune could represent your charisma, and there's already a very apocryphal Sight rune that could be connected to perception. An 'agility' and 'willpower' representative rune are all that's needed then for a 5-stat system). Each of these Mortal runes would then have an associated calculated gauge, like HP or passive perception.

    Speaking of which, get rid of Intelligence. It's instead spread across your backgrounds and cult / caste trainings. Since I like low-granularity step-die systems, there isn't much space to allow for random rolling to really be plausibly balanced if I get 100% my way, so I'd replace it with randomly rolling to determine what your stat array is.

  6. Heroquesting Rules. No, no, I'd want to stay away from Godlearnerism. But we really need codified rules for these. A Heroquest is a very involved form of ritual magic that's a mini-adventure in of itself. Much like in KoDP and its successors, a Heroquesting write-up would include the "mundane" reasons for why you'd normally want to undertake the quest, the required characters and roles, a list of "stations" of the legend where encounters would occur, along with the projected benefits. The GM may also add in incursions from other myths, other heroquesters or Chaotic entities in the Otherworlds, and put places where things may start to go horribly wrong (or where you could find a New Truth). This is a thing that characters are able to do in Glorantha. You should be able to do it with support from the rules.

  7. Every Cult (and Subsequently, All Magic) is Unique. On top of our little mortal scaffold of Ability Runes, a few Power and Element Rune affinities/weaknesses, a background, and a few neat cultural traits or powers, we can then start layering on top of a character the magic system, which is where most of a character's major defined power comes from. Each type of magic (the old God/Spirit/Sorcery distinction, along with artifacts) has a different structure and method of character advancement. I really only have thought out the Theism structure, though.

    Let's assume that we're using my suggested step die mechanic for a moment, since it's one I've used for my own home-brew projects and I'm familiar with its quirks. Each cult, like with your ability scores and your Power / Element Runes, has both a static value used in calculations and a die value used in checks. The static value is the mean of the die value's roll, rounded down. (So, one could have a 2/d4 in Harmony and a 3/d6 in Water, or what have you). Cults work the same way, with the uninitiated at 0/– in the cult, an Aspirant to the Cult at 1/d2, an Initiate (the minimum a PC would start at) at 2/d4, Rune Lords all the way at 5/d10, and Rune Priests at 6/d12. There's a ladder to climb, but it's not one that's as tedious as full class/level systems. The higher you are in the cult, the more strength you have to draw on when acting as your god (or association of gods) would with those freeform spells I brought up earlier, as opposed to raw runic powers.

    Naturally, at each level you'd gain a new passive trait or a unique, more powerful power or ritual. Some cult levels, mostly the Rune Lords and Rune Priest Levels, would also reveal heroquests to you, free of charge. These would all be tailor-made for the given cult in question. Since unless you're Arkat you're not exactly bouncing between cults and retaining full strength in all of them, the average high-level PC would have a few very powerful unique abilities but still be relatively easy to run without option paralysis.

  8. Lay Observance of Cults. One thing present in the setting's fiction, but rarely extant in the tabletop rules is the fact that most members of a given society do pay observance to other gods in the pantheon. As such an Orlanthi character that pays proper observance to a given deity can gain a temporary boon. This is the cult's Observer Boon, equivalent to a Level 0 spell in D&D or what have you. For devotees of that god's cult, this is a permanent thing that's part of their panoply of powers. Anyone can do this, provided they do the proper libations and recognize the same gods. So, characters can get minor effects as part of a greater community and for temporary purposes.

    Here's how an Observer trait for Orlanth would just kidding, it's Nanda's time to shine for once:

    Hypothetical Observer Trait for Nanda posted:

    Cult Sites and Libations
    A shrine to Ernalda’s Weaver Women or a tula’s hearth-shrine is the most proper place to offer libations to Nanda. Shrines devoted solely to Nanda are uncommon, but not unheard of, particularly in Esrolian cities. There is a full-fledged temple for Nanda in Notchet, located in-between the Tershis and Kalava districts. This may be the only temple to the Bearded Woman in the world, and the only location where a Rune Priestess of Nandan could be found.

    Nanda will accept a lock of your beard hair, cow or mare urine, corning salt, pickling brine, or pickled vegetables as libations.

    Lay Observance of Nandan
    Nanda may be observed by any Orlanthi, though observance is primarily by Heortlings and Esrolvuli. Other cultures that recognize the Earth or Storm Tribe may observe Nanda at any proper cult site, if given instruction by a Orlanthi-cultured character.

    Nanda’s gift to Observers is the Blessing of the Housekeeper trait. This trait lasts by default from when the libation is offered to the sunrise of the next day.


    Observer of Nanda Boon
    Blessing of the Housekeeper (Trait, Observance, Duration)
    When Vinga led off all the women to fight Erladivus, the men of the Storm Tribe were helpless to feed the children, work the looms, and thresh the grains. One of them stepped forwards, strung a loom with Her beard-hair, and renounced all manhood so as to lead the men in how to work the home. Now She is Nanda, the Bearded Woman and Housekeeper. Or perhaps She always was.

    Effect:
    • You grant advantage when Aiding Another in performing women’s work in Orlanthi cultures.
    • When you make a Critical Success on checks taken when performing any women's work in Orlanthi cultures, you gain +1 Magic per additional degree of success. This also applies to Aiding Another in such checks.

    Duration: Until the next sunrise; or, permanently if a member of the Nandan Cult.

    Reprisal:
    Trigger: Performing men’s work or referring to Nanda, yourself, or other Nandans with ‘he,’ ‘him,’ or ‘his.’
    Effect: The boon immediately ends. If you are a Nandan Cultist, you must perform Aspirant Observance to regain use of all your Nandan powers.

Anyways, that all is what I've got in terms of coherent thoughts on how I'd handle my own addition to the endless attempts at a Glorantha RPG.

Spiderfist Island fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Sep 23, 2023

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