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NewMars posted:Six ages part 2 is absolutely nuts. It takes place during the end of the great darkness. Not the parts where everything gets slowly worse, but the full bore "the spike has exploded, wakboth marshals his armies, orlanth and ernalda are dead, oh god oh man" part. In fact, one of the clan creation choices? How long until the world ends. Events have stuff like happy chaos people made out of random limbs telling you that they can help the sun shine on your crops again if you just worship their chaos god. You can invent new heroquests out of utter desperation, including one that gives birth to babeester gor via kicking the absolute poo poo out of a chaos god. Wakboth himself can just show up and cause trouble for you personally, like taking a nap in front of a river, incidentally flooding you. Or just straight up stepping on your stuff like an rear end. you can actually get a different version of this same event where instead of saying that Antirius/Little Yelm/Yelmalio is close kin to your Elmal, the Dara Happans can straight up just call your Elmal tribe Yelmalio worshippers. So evidently the merger was already happening, if only for some. There's lots of fun little details like that, like your tricksters now being called eurmali but if you look at their art they're still doing Raven rites to at least some degree. ZeroCount fucked around with this message at 12:15 on Aug 23, 2023 |
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Aug 23, 2023 12:04
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NewMars posted:On a solar note, here's a list of suns in six ages: Specifically, it seems that the Hyalorings in Six Ages predate the idea of 'planets' and refer to as any celestial object as a 'sun'. So Elmal is Lightfore, the loyal sun that remained in the sky after Yelm fell but things like moons are also suns, since they live in the sky and provide light. But they also seem to divide the Sun worship into the different roles that it plays in their life, especially now that Yelm the sun-in-itself is dead. Yatelo is the sun that dries the ground and withers crops and is a great patron to bandits, Shargash is the Red Planet but also the sun that destroys and burns so that new things can be regrown but they think that he (and Alkoth) have gone insane since Yelm died. Interestingly, in Six Ages 2, the Berenthelli (Hyalorings who have become Orlanthi) have changed in their estimation of Shargash, since their myths now list him as a part of dead Yelm who escaped from the underworld when the line between death and life was broken by Chaos. Yelmalio/Antirius is *also* Lightfore but unlike Elmal, who was the patron god of Nivorah and married to the Golden City's tutelary goddess before Nivorah fell, Yelmalio is the patron god of some losers in the old empire who the Hyalorings hate, so 'Little Yelm' shows up occasionally in their myths as a symbol of slavery, antiquated ways and impotence and his main role is to get owned because he's an enemy god in someone else's mythology. Despite this Hyaloring hostility, some Dara Happans in Six Ages 2 are already equating Elmal and Antirius as just being two different facets of the Lightfore God and invite you to do the same. There's also sort of an explanation for this in one of your clan's main myths, the Tablets of Hyalor, which details how the Hyalorings and Samnalings rebelled from the Dara Happans empire and split away. quote:Elmal's wife, Nivorah, had finally died. The walls and streets of what had once been a living city were now her mausoleum. Elmal was gone, off on a quest to restore the sun's warmth, when bells rang and drums boomed. A procession entered the city, sent by the throne of Dara Happa. As always the legates of the ineffective Emperor came to us when we were starving, and offered to feed us only nonsense. Elmal might have once been more widely worshipped in the Empire but his worship may have been banned or subsumed into Yelmalio after Manarlavus cursed Elmal to irrelevance. This would explain why the Hyalorings and Samnalings are Elmali but nobody else from the Empire is. And indeed, considering the current state of Elmal that everyone is discoursing about, it seems like the Emperor's curse was wholly effective in the end. It's interesting to me (and probably only to me) that by Six Ages 2, we have three very distinct strains of Elmal worship present in the valley. The Hyalorings worship Elmal as an extremely reluctant king and their main heroquest about him is 'Elmal Guards the Sunpath', which is about Elmal not wishing to be the Sun or to rule but has to, in order to preserve light and the heavens for everybody. The Hyalorings don't like kings or emperors so they've clearly gone to some lengths to make Elmal sympathetic to their views despite being the king of their pantheon. It's extremely easy to see how this Elmal carries into the way the Orlanthi see him, after some of the Hyalorings become Orlanthi and join the tribe. Through this, Elmal becomes not a reluctant king but a loyal thane who steps up when needed but would never rule. And of course, his main heroquest is still all about him persevering and preserving the world against destruction. But not only are the Orlanthi Elmal worshippers (Elmal becomes the main god of the Berenthelli since Orlanth is dead) and the original Hyalorings co-existing, the Samnalings are also still there. We don't get a whole lot of information about how the Samnalings worship Elmal but their myths would probably be the closest to how Elmal was originally worshipped in Nivorah, with him as a just but strict and patriarchal king, who rules over the slaves and the lower classes of people as he is meant to do. None of that hippy hyaloring bullshit, none of that Raven Trickster nonsense, no elevation of goddesses (The Samnalings worship male deities of healing and trade as opposed to the Hyalorings, view the Hyaloring forage goddess as merely Elmal's slave and Ernalda/Nyalda as Elmal's subservient wife) and certainly no recognition of the Storm Tribe. Their Elmal also wouldn't have any horse association at all, which is wild to think about. By the the time of Six Ages 2, there are a lot of different Elmals roaming about! I wish we got to see more of the Wheel religion. Probably the funniest part of my Six Ages 2 playthrough was hearing that one of their clans had cleansed a Chaos infestation by invoking 'a dubious god they call Sun Bull'. That the Samnalings have hastily found a way to syncretize Urox as some sort of Sun God so they can take advantage of him and the Uroxi while still claiming to be untainted by Storm is hysterical. Oh and while Yonesh the Cold Sun has the same title as Yelmalio would later have, I don't think they're supposed to be read as the same thing. In Elmal Guards the Sunpath, Elmal rebukes Yonesh by saying that he is 'studded with Storm runes' and is unclean as a result. And the myth art also gives Yonesh the swirl markings it denotes all Storm Gods with. A storm-aspected sun? He is described as a 'chill pale orb that hurls snow, hail and sleet', so in keeping with them worshipping the Sun in its different aspects and roles, he might simply be how the sun appears when it is hidden by storm, just like how Shargash is the sun that burns. Yonesh might also simply be a Storm God of some sort that the Hyalorings have misidentified, possibly Valind, since the Hyalorings blame Yonesh for the creation of Valind's Glacier. According to some advisors, it is unclear whether Yonesh was ever actually a Dara Happan god at all, which points to him being Valind. Alternatively, Yonesh might be Yavor, the Fire Tribe god who snuffed his own fire out to help him fight Umath and then took some of Umath's lightning from his corpse afterwards. This would explain a Cold Sun who has the Storm Rune. He also gets killed by Orlanth during the Storm Age so that would also explain why Yonesh is present in Six Ages 1 but doesn't show up at all by Six Ages 2 (though this absence can also be explained by the SA2 viewpoint being Orlanthi, who 'know' that Yonesh is simply Valind) ZeroCount fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Sep 21, 2023 |
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Sep 21, 2023 05:48
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Nanomashoes posted:Shargash takes the mantle of the sun during the great darkness, and burns the world of chaos. It's then taken by Kargzant. This is according to the Glorious re-ascent. You may be right about the planet thing, but Shargash literally is the sun at some point. It's not crazy to think that he was contesting that position in the storm age. Fair point. The meaning of 'sun' is certainly very fluid at this point. Tias posted:Does this mean someone at least thought Elmal and Yelmalio were different? I had no idea Elmal ruled in Nivorah, but I never got far in Six Ages, so perhaps I'll pick it up again. At the very least, the Elmali descendants of Nivorah some generations after the fact claim that Elmal ruled in Nivorah. I think what's probably the most important thing here is that after the people of Nivorah declare rebellion against the Emperor, Manarlavus decrees that the god of the rebels will be cursed and doomed to never be spoken of again. This explains the lack of Elmal worship in the rest of the Empire and, in my mind at least, posts two possible things: 1) Elmal and Yelmalio were both once worshipped by different parts of the Empire at roughly the same time and for roughly the same purpose, as the surviving light in a Yelmless world, but an Elmali rebellion made Elmal worship illegal and it was all syncretized into Yelmalio, leaving only the descendants of Nivorah as the last Elmal worshippers who would eventually introduce it to the Orlanthi. or 2) At one point before this Elmal and Yelmalo *were* the same but the splitting of Nivorah from the Empire and the Emperor's condemnation of them caused a split, that the sun god of the Empire and the sun god of the rebels must be different. The Empire decreed that the god of the rebels was nothing but dust and the Hyaloring rebels also participated in this split, by having Elmal symbolize *their* sun worship (good, cool, cock is huge) and made Yelmalio in their myths be a separate figure to symbolize the sun worship of the old Empire (bad, old and stupid, cock is small) Regardless, the Hyalorings did feature both Yelmalio and Elmal in their myths and as separate beings. Yelmalio isn't very important to them, mind you, and he certainly isn't worshipped but he shows up and every now and then to be bested by Elmal. In their actual myths, he is most present in Elmal Guards the Sunpath, where he makes a brief attempt on the Sunpath but is immediately shamed by Elmal's virtue: quote:Upon this path pretenders prowled. They tore up the golden paving stones, sutffing them in stacks, devouring them, seeking to usurp not only Yelm's throne but his rune of power. and in Nyalda's Bride Price, the myth about Nyalda seeking out Elmal to be her husband, where he is her first suitor: quote:With Yelm dead, his sons and vassals leapt enthusiastically to war. After fighting each other for a while they remembered that soldiers have to eat. Each commander came to Nyalda to make an offer. Nyalda knew this would happen and sent Ekarna to gain the Negotiation Rune. Ekarna spoke for her, and Busenari gave practical counsel. EDIT: Interesting little SA detail is Reladivus, who is regarded these days as a son of Yelm, is mentioned in SA1 Hyaloring myth as a son of Elmal and Nivorah and thus Yelm's grandson instead of son. This, IMO, speaks to the idea that there was a huge purge of all things Elmal from the Empire during the Storm Age, to the point of loving up genealogy a little bit and promoting his son into his place. ZeroCount fucked around with this message at 08:19 on Sep 21, 2023 |
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Sep 21, 2023 07:40
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White Coke posted:I do wonder how the game is going to deal with Monrogh's revelation in the Third Age. Hopefully they don't take a cowardly route and end before the timeline gets to that point. Based on what people have said about the depictions of Elmal and Yelmalio they haven't shied away from the conflict but haven't definitively taken a side. My guess is that the player's clan will have the choice of switching over to Yelmalio and that whatever decision they make will be the 'correct' one. What I'm more interested in though is how the First and Second Ages will be depicted. I hope we get to see the Bright Empire and Empire of Wyrm Friends in all their illuminated madness along with how the Elmali deal with the Yelmalios of those periods, Daysenerus and Tharkantus. Six Ages 1 has a very similar thing happen in-game where an event brings the Hyaloring clans of the valley into contact with a drastically different interpretation of Hyalor, specifically about the events of his death and his lineage. Some clans adopt this, some oppose it and it leads to a permanent schism that almost always lasts the rest of the game. You can choose a side, engage in a lot of infighting about it, send off guys to try and find the truth yourself, etc etc. Depending on which side you take, there can be serious benefits or penalties. It seems kind of dubious that we're ever gonna reach the Third Age anytime soon but if we do, I expect the Monrogh revelation will be mechanically treated the same.
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Sep 23, 2023 09:53
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