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Skippy McPants
Mar 19, 2009

More perplexed by dual Director/EIC titles. Though looking at GamingTrend, it appears to be a content mill staffed by contractors.

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orcane
Jun 13, 2012

Fun Shoe

Skippy McPants posted:

WoW got a little bit when they paved over the 1.0 version of Azeroth in the Cataclysm expansion, but that was more of a remake-style of thing where they replaced old content with newer stuff updated to fit the state of the world. I can't think of an MMO, or really any ongoing game, that just excised past content without a drat good reason. Content generation is far and away the hardest thing about those games. Why throw away that work if you don't have to?

In fact, I'd say live service games often go too far in the other direction. A lot of them are mausoleums of archaic systems and outdated content. It reminds me of a quote from Small Gods,

So I can kinda see why Destiny would want to clean house, but they were definitely going against the grain.
Guild Wars 2 started out with a "living world" post-launch model that was maximum FOMO, all temporary content. Judging by how they changed course immediately after the first "season" tells me it probably didn't do very well. But the content wasn't all lost at least, they reused some of it for world bosses and spent the last year adding back most of the formerly temporary season 1 episodes.

That game is also a good example for your point about "mausoleums". For example, the game launched with dungeons, they came in a story mode (intended while you leveled up, telling the story of a group of NPCs) and then harder exploration modes intended for level 80 characters. But dungeons got abandoned after launch and instead they added a new form of small group instanced combat, "fractals", which come with a ton more mechanics (and new gear, and higher requirements) and much better rewards, and unlike dungeons the fractals repeatedly got revisited, rebalanced, had levels and rewards added etc. Dungeons are just dead content that never got revisited, veterans speedrun them by running past 90% of the trash mobs, stacking in specific corners of a boss arena and killing bosses in less than a minute, because slogging through them old-school style is not worth it at all (in a game where a lot of endgame activities are compared by how much gold/h you can earn).

The problem is, new shiny things attract more attention than getting old stuff polished and reusable (in GW2 a lot of people complain about how the past year was "wasted" on bringing living world season 1 back instead of adding new content after the 3rd expansion launched about a year ago). And if it doesn't tax your dev process or operating expenses much or at all, why bother removing stuff if you can just leave it in unchanged. Bonus points, if someone is mad enough to go through unpolished old grinds, they will spend more time in your game anyway = MORE ENGAGEMENT :woop:

orcane fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Mar 15, 2023

eonblue174
Sep 13, 2011

Still chipping away at the Anthem killer

Chop, chop, chop
Dreams is about to poo poo the bed, ending live support. So now I'm making "Dranthem" in a traditional engine. Starting with Blender and Godot - I'm going to make my mech again and make it walk around and shoot before I commit to moving to a new thing or hop back into the tauntaun corpse of Dreams

madfury
Dec 21, 2005
rõve loom

eonblue174 posted:

Dreams is about to poo poo the bed, ending live support. So now I'm making "Dranthem" in a traditional engine. Starting with Blender and Godot - I'm going to make my mech again and make it walk around and shoot before I commit to moving to a new thing or hop back into the tauntaun corpse of Dreams
Ill start the death clock for Blender and Godot. Everything Anthem touches either dies or goes on a life support. Still, I admire your persistence. At this pace your creation might outlive Bioware. I am fairly sure they are going to poo poo the bed with next DA and ME....

eonblue174
Sep 13, 2011

Still chipping away at the Anthem killer

Chop, chop, chop
I'm now announcing that "Dranthem" is running for US president

He he he...

ErrEff
Feb 13, 2012

eonblue174 posted:

Dreams is about to poo poo the bed, ending live support. So now I'm making "Dranthem" in a traditional engine. Starting with Blender and Godot - I'm going to make my mech again and make it walk around and shoot before I commit to moving to a new thing or hop back into the tauntaun corpse of Dreams

You sound motivated enough to take this on and start from scratch, thankfully there’s an endless supply of tutorials and extended reading available for Unity, Unreal and other creation tools. Good luck, there’s always a niche for cool mech games (except Anthem).

eonblue174
Sep 13, 2011

Still chipping away at the Anthem killer

Chop, chop, chop
Blender sucks dog dick compared to Dreams, back to the corpse!

https://twitter.com/IndeedRyan/status/1655304693000675328?s=20

Disargeria
May 6, 2010

All Good Things are Wild and Free!
Development history of OW2 with the recent news is giving big Anthem vibes with a lot of parallels. Made me think of Anthem. Does anyone remember this game?

Baba Yaga Fanboy
May 18, 2011

Disargeria posted:

Development history of OW2 with the recent news is giving big Anthem vibes with a lot of parallels. Made me think of Anthem. Does anyone remember this game?

Anthem? I think you mean "Dylan." It's called that because, like musician Bob Dylan, it's going to fundamentally change everything. HTH.

Overbite
Jan 24, 2004


I'm a vtuber expert
Bob Dylan doesn’t sing very well imo

Kaysette
Jan 5, 2009

~*Boston makes me*~
~*feel good*~

:wrongcity:

Olympic Mathlete
Feb 25, 2011

:h:


Lot of people mentioning Anthem in the same sentence as Redfall because that has turned out to be a massive disappointment. I will say though, at least Anthem had a cool way of getting around the world and AI that seemed to work.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



Olympic Mathlete posted:

Lot of people mentioning Anthem in the same sentence as Redfall because that has turned out to be a massive disappointment. I will say though, at least Anthem had a cool way of getting around the world and AI that seemed to work.

also, critically, anthem actually sold astoundingly well, whereas redfall will probably haunt arkane austin's finances until the studio eventually shutters

Thirsty Dog
May 31, 2007

Olympic Mathlete posted:

Lot of people mentioning Anthem in the same sentence as Redfall because that has turned out to be a massive disappointment. I will say though, at least Anthem had a cool way of getting around the world and AI that seemed to work.

The AI was absolute garbage and it also made no sense to have these enemies in a game about flying around in iron man suits, until you realised that was a last minute design change.

The AI in Redfall is just flat out broken

Skippy McPants
Mar 19, 2009

Anthem fell into the common Bioware trap of building really cool and satisfying combat mechanics for the player and then undermining all that hard work by offering them nothing interesting to do with all their fun toys.

dogstile
May 1, 2012

fucking clocks
how do they work?
Is that a common bioware trap? Didn't most of their other games let you actually use your fun toys?

Unless you mean dragonage because I tried playing the first and went "oh, bioware have kinda lost their way" a few hours in, so i would have missed that series doing it.

Skippy McPants
Mar 19, 2009

Nothing to do in the sense that encounter and enemy design in Bioware games is middling to miserable. From BG2 all the way through to Anthem, they're exceptional at making combat systems that are deep and fun to engage with... From the player's side of the equation. Meanwhile, most of the enemies you fight are braindead sacks of HP with maybe one ability if you're lucky.

Historically, Bioware does A+ combat design and D- encounter design.

Fellatio del Toro
Mar 21, 2009

lets not get carried away lol. ME3MP was the only bioware game that gets into the A range

anthem had two fun classes that could do fun combos calling down lightning storms and shoot fireballs or stomp around with a flamethrower and shield and launch artillery barrages. and then it also had two classes that could do a little dash or throw a dinky grenade and shoot a little poison dart

Skippy McPants
Mar 19, 2009

I disagree. I enjoyed the hell out of the combat mechanics in, off the top of my head, BG2, ME2 and 3, every Dragon Age, ME:A, and Anthem.

Fruits of the sea
Dec 1, 2010

Ehh as a BioWare enjoyer, Dragon Age 2’s combat is exactly that.

moist turtleneck
Jul 17, 2003

Represent.



Dinosaur Gum
i'm still mad at how far of a step back MEA MP was compared to ME3MP

also they made the netcode worse somehow which is great when you can accidentally jump over barriers and die instantly

the combo sounds were not near as crunchy and cool as me3mp either

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me

Yeah going from me3 mp to mea mp was a deflating experience.

Pattonesque
Jul 15, 2004
johnny jesus and the infield fly rule

moist turtleneck posted:

i'm still mad at how far of a step back MEA MP was compared to ME3MP

also they made the netcode worse somehow which is great when you can accidentally jump over barriers and die instantly

the combo sounds were not near as crunchy and cool as me3mp either

yeah the MEA MP feel was off. in ME3 when you play a krogan and melee someone you backhand the poo poo out of him and the screen shakes and he either dies or a big chunk of health leaves him and your krogan goes HAW HAW HAW

in MEA when you do the same thing your guy goes 'eh' and the enemy loses 10% of his health and doesn't stagger at all. it sucks

Skippy McPants
Mar 19, 2009

The multiplier was indeed a sarrowful step-down, even setting aside the loot boxes and awful netcode. The ME:A team did the ME3 multiplier, and the single-player combat feel was a lot more polished.

Considering how busted the game was at launch, I assume they didn't have time fully finish the multiplier.

moist turtleneck
Jul 17, 2003

Represent.



Dinosaur Gum
Still, one of the funniest loving things out of mea was cancelling quarian dlc by saying their ark crashed on the way there and they all died

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."


See, you can't say everything about Andromeda was bad.

Skippy McPants
Mar 19, 2009

It still kills me how badly they squandered the premise of Andromeda. They have a whole new galaxy to discover, a chance to introduce an entirely new slate of alien species and cultures, and what do they do with that opportunity? Tell the blandest big space empire threatens the plucky humans story imaginable.

ZeusCannon
Nov 5, 2009

BLAAAAAARGH PLEASE KILL ME BLAAAAAAAARGH
Grimey Drawer

moist turtleneck posted:

Still, one of the funniest loving things out of mea was cancelling quarian dlc by saying their ark crashed on the way there and they all died

Holy poo poo thats amazing. That has a very "gently caress it WHATEVER" vibe to it.


I do occasionally sit back and think what a shame it was this game sucked rear end. Because flying iron man coop games sounds like a lot of fun.

To pure for this world

moist turtleneck
Jul 17, 2003

Represent.



Dinosaur Gum
When I returned to BioWare last summer, Mass Effect: Andromeda had just been released and there was a significant movement among players asking for a story DLC that would answer questions surrounding the fate of the quarians. As you know, we were not able to deliver story DLC for Andromeda—this was as frustrating for us as it was for players, and it was something we knew we had to solve in future games.

That experience ultimately became a defining moment in refocusing BioWare’s mission. We need to delight players with new experiences and innovation, but we must stay focused on the importance of the world, character, and storytelling elements that players expect from our games. And our games must be designed to continue delivering new stories and experiences, in an ongoing relationship with players in the worlds we’re evolving together.

It’s in that spirit that we are working through production on Anthem–a game designed to create a whole new world of story and character that you can experience with friends in an ongoing series of adventures. It will be unlike anything you’ve played, but if we do it right, it will feel very distinctly BioWare.

Next time I’ll talk more about how our updated studio mission is helping to focus our work on Anthem and the games that will follow!

Casey Hudson

https://blog.bioware.com/2018/04/16/studio-update-from-casey-hudson/

moist turtleneck
Jul 17, 2003

Represent.



Dinosaur Gum
packing all the cool space faring races on a big bus and pushing it into a volcano

Andromeda left the fan-favourite quarians out of the game to focus on Mass Effect's more prominent races. The quarians, Andromeda explained, were lagging behind on another ark ship - the Keelah Si'yah - with many of Mass Effect's other, more minor species: the drell, elcor, hanar and volus.

Annihilation's new plot description is, to my knowledge, the first time its been stated that batarians were also on board.

moist turtleneck
Jul 17, 2003

Represent.



Dinosaur Gum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96vxUj79KK4

Pattonesque
Jul 15, 2004
johnny jesus and the infield fly rule

absolutely fuckin owns

moist turtleneck
Jul 17, 2003

Represent.



Dinosaur Gum
Remember when they re released me3 and forgot to include the multiplayer

Preechr
May 19, 2009

Proud member of the Pony-Brony Alliance for Obama as President
Remember when they originally released ME3, and forgot to include actual endings?

Pigbuster
Sep 12, 2010

Fun Shoe

moist turtleneck posted:

Andromeda left the fan-favourite quarians out of the game to focus on Mass Effect's more prominent races. The quarians, Andromeda explained, were lagging behind on another ark ship - the Keelah Si'yah - with many of Mass Effect's other, more minor species: the drell, elcor, hanar and volus.

They should make a follow up game that’s entirely cast with the weirdo races stuck on the economy ark. Forget about the Ryder you made in andromeda, you’re some Volus guy now

SubponticatePoster
Aug 9, 2004

Every day takes figurin' out all over again how to fuckin' live.
Slippery Tilde

moist turtleneck posted:

Remember when they re released me3 and forgot to include the multiplayer
That's still baffling to me. They made so much money from it, and as far as lootbox systems go it was completely inoffensive. You could get everything just by playing and some people wanted to try and get stuff quicker so they dropped money - win/win for everyone! A bit of a tweak to update it for modern consoles and they'd be raking in cash all over again.

I remember reading that they were going to bring back the MP but that's probably fallen by the wayside like pretty much everything else.

Pigbuster posted:

They should make a follow up game that’s entirely cast with the weirdo races stuck on the economy ark. Forget about the Ryder you made in andromeda, you’re some Volus guy now
You're Han Olar, and your whole story arc is that wherever you go some disaster happens and everyone but you dies.

Owl Inspector
Sep 14, 2011

100% would have bought the remake if they had included mass effect 3 multiplayer and just touched up the controls. never going to touch the singleplayer in those games again but I'd absolutely boot up some more ME3 MP with a fresh population and a little polish.

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me

SubponticatePoster posted:

You're Han Olar, and your whole story arc is that wherever you go some disaster happens and everyone but you dies.

gently caress this is a fun idea and I'm sad it'll never happen.

PringleCreamEgg
Jul 2, 2004

Sleep, rest, do your best.

Preechr posted:

Remember when they originally released ME3, and forgot to include actual endings?

This was honestly so wild to me and still is. It felt like someone who had never read more than a basic plot summary of the Mass Effect games was the one who came up with the original endings. Destroy would have been the objectively good ending if not for the collateral damage of wiping out the geth, but it was framed as red. Control was objectively dumb as hell because we had been shown time and time again that this will always fail, but it was supposedly the “good” choice. Synthesis was absolute nonsense.

The fact that you can see Shepard survive the destroy ending also makes it so Indoctrination Theory is the only thing that makes any sense. I believe bioware has commented on this and said it’s absolutely not true.

Refuse is what I tried to do initially because all presented options were insane so it was clearly a fake choice. The fact that they added this in a patch and it is made very clear that it’s the wrong choice is very bad but it’s also the only choice if Indoctrination Theory is not allowed.

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dogstile
May 1, 2012

fucking clocks
how do they work?
The patch ending was absolutely a pissbaby "go gently caress yourself" patch and i've not given bioware any money since.

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