Thread for Incredibles 2 and arguing over whether its Randian or not

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Thread for Incredibles 2 and arguing over whether its Randian or not

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

I feel like the claims of being elitist and randist are a bit undercut by how the series consistently infantilizes the rich.

The truth is that Evelyn was right that her dad was being an idiot and people shouldn't blindly just trust superheroes. But that's never really been the point of Incredibles. The first film is about how family, friendships, and our ties to one another strengthen us. This sequel builds on this and even critiques the original film. While Incredibles builds the importance of family, it also casts family as a reflection of its male protagonist. The sequel is about Bob learning how he supports his family, specifically Helen, and how that means sometimes taking a step back.

What makes Everyln the bad guy is her belief that if you can't just blindly trust the superheroes then you can't trust them at all. There is no in-between for her. I once again find the elitism complaints weird because the heroes are shown constantly to be fallible. The inability to see both good intent but fallibility is what makes the villain the villain. Both films aren't championing elitism. They're championing humility and cooperation.

With that said, there is a LOT going on in the film that doesn't really pay off. The police body cameras might be more incidental than trying to say anything, but the film seems to be saying things about mass media that never really adds up to much.

For people who have not seen the movie yet, stay for the credits! The theme songs are wonderful.

Timeless Appeal fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Jun 17, 2018

# ¿ Jun 17, 2018 23:22

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# ¿ May 19, 2024 09:34

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

Was there anything in the original Incredibles that made it clear that it was literally the 1960s and not just a film with a retro aesthetic?

# ¿ Jun 17, 2018 23:31

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

Pants Donkey posted:

Dash is learning New Math, which schools adopted in the 1960s. But it parallels the frustration modern parents have with Common Core mathematics so it's easy to miss.

Also all of the TV they watch is dated. At first I figured it was just Dash loving old monster flicks but all the programming is from around that era.

I know that, but I was talking more about the first film. It looked like the 1960s, but I don't remember anything so explicit as Violet seeing Dementia 13.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2018 00:24

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

Lurdiak posted:

I don't even know how anyone could argue The Incredibles wasn't a Randian film with a straight face, that's like saying there's no fascism in 300.

Because the Randian material people find is pretty broad and not exclusive to Rand's work. Incredibles can also easily be compared to Harrison Bergeron written by a Socialist author. Like I'm not blind to what people are pointing out as Randian, but it's always seemed superficial. And it's kind of grown into this meme that sidesteps the actual story the film is telling. People weigh one line by Syndrome over everything else that happens.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2018 02:45

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

General Dog posted:

She was more severe Dreamworks face than the actual Dreamworks version.

Nah, she's raising both of her eyebrows.

# ¿ Jun 22, 2018 21:30

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# ¿ May 19, 2024 09:34

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

Magic Hate Ball posted:

His belief seems to boil down to �if you can do something exceptional, you should a: be encouraged to develop your skills and b: use those skills philanthropically�, which comes with the necessary flip side of �if you can�t do anything exceptional, accept and encourage those who can�, and both elements fly in the fundamentally selfish and anti-altruistic face of Randian objectivism.

Honestly the very notion of family is kind of a huge blind spot for Rand's entire work.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2018 17:57

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Thread for Incredibles 2 and arguing over whether its Randian or not