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Japex posted:Let's assume the root of all evil is that which induces suffering No.
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Jul 7, 2018 07:21
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| # ¿ May 10, 2024 03:23 |
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They make pills for what is wrong with you, you know that right? e: Like that's not so much a personal attack as it is the only reality I know how to respond to here. "Well obviously I see everything in the most miserable light, even when I actively have to re-frame reality to fit my downer worldview, but maybe the problem is everything else", said nobody without chemical problems, ever. At a certain point maybe you aren't pessimistic, maybe you are just broken. Mulva fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Sep 8, 2018 |
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Sep 8, 2018 22:25
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The counter-point is that nothing you are saying is useful or productive to a society or a person. So....why care about your viewpoint? Like lets say everyone thought like you, what would you imagine is step two of this process?
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Sep 9, 2018 00:16
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OwlFancier posted:The desire to think the world is generally good is what leads to just world stupidity and all its associated damage to society. Who gives a gently caress about society when the actual damage to the world is a bunch of narcissists...how to put this...ah yes quote:demanding what they're owed to the detriment of everything around them. Society is a transitory thing that is destroyed on a fairly regular basis. We aren't the Pilgrim fathers, who weren't the general British public, who weren't the same as the Angles, and on and on. Society is a fashion trend. The world is fairly objective, and so is the damage to it. And the largest cause of that damage is people that reject the idea of anything outside their own personal morality, which is usually some variation of "gently caress you, got mine". Nothing you've said has a counter to that, which makes it fairly useless. If everyone thought like you they might do things different, but plenty of people that think like that do things worse than they should, so how is it an improvement in general? Kerning Chameleon posted:I mean, my personal step 2 is "stop throwing your short life and limited resources away on lost causes and focus on living your own life best you can". Which in my case is just refocusing my efforts on projects to better myself and my immediate family's security and comfort but would provide little if any benefit to other people beyond that. Which is ultimately self defeating in a real crisis situation because you are powerless and irrelevant on your own, and if the larger group decides to destroy you you are done. As I said, it's a viewpoint that doesn't serve the individual or the society. What you propose is giving up and hoping things just sort of wash over you which.....come to think of it, sounds a lot like optimism.
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Sep 9, 2018 00:41
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OwlFancier posted:There's a difference between what you're owed and what you can take at whim. Nothing you've said delineates that or provides the tool to measure it, but it's absolutely the viewpoint of people that don't care about the distinction in the first place. quote:The FYGM crowd don't demand, they take, or already have, by virtue of their individual power or fortune. So what you are saying is that the people that think like you and try to be productive are less effective than the people that think like you and are selfish? I mean combine that with the only other person in this thread that champions a viewpoint somewhat like you just actively admitting to giving up on change and I stand by my original statement: There's nothing useful for society in that viewpoint.
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Sep 9, 2018 00:56
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| # ¿ May 10, 2024 03:23 |
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Kerning Chameleon posted:I'd rather be correct and die miserable and impotent, than to live on believing in and laboring under the lie of false hope. I consider knowing and accepting the truth more important than anything, even mutual survival or happiness, no matter how painful or despair-inducing it may be. To do otherwise would go against everything I believe in. As I said, they make pills for that. OwlFancier posted:I didn't say that abandoning blind optimism alone would solve the world's problems, I said it is contrary to a number of detrimental cognitive positions, you require an alternative framework to replace the ones that pessimism/realism/materialism forces you to abandon. Or conversely, that adopting what I would call a good framework for looking at the world, necessitates abandoning optimism to a great degree. And I said move on to step two, show why it would in any way improve anything. And you didn't. Now we are caught up! I didn't think it was a long enough thread or that you had said anything so long and complicated we needed a recap episode, but here we are again. So I might as well repeat myself: Move on to the step where you show why doing what you want makes anything better. As a bonus, you can not respond to me and respond to Kerning. Because that is the most meaningful thing you could do to prove your point, take someone that advances the half step of rejecting blind optimism and then doing gently caress all....and try to get them to buy into positive change anyway.
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Sep 9, 2018 01:24
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