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I keep seeing people around here discussing what kind of jokes are "off limits" or "over the line" and it's just completely irrelevant. Comedy is subjective, when you're a comedian you WILL offend people, there's no way around it. Most people who make their living in comedy seem to understand that certain areas(rape, pedophilia) are more likely to offend than others, and they either stay away from those areas or they don't. The two people we're here talking about are both public figures who make their living as comedy writers. They knew the score, they knew that what they were saying was offensive because they were going out of their way to be that way. Ask Gilbert Gottfried about this. He made a joke about tsunami victims and lost a lucrative ad deal. But that's his way of life, he's a dirty comedian. He shrugged his shoulders and moved on, he found work elsewhere just like these two guys will.
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Jul 24, 2018 15:17
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Fart City posted:And for what it’s worth, I agree with Basebf555: Gunn and Harmon absolutely knew what they were doing, and why they were doing it (to elicit a shock reaction). And I’m sure they will have no issue finding more work. My issues are with the circumstances in which the situation was instigated, and what the motives of the instigators behind it were. I have the same issues, I hate the fact that Cernovich is getting a win out of this, and no I don't agree with Disney's decision. If it were my decision, I'd keep Gunn just to stick it to Cernovich, no other reason necessary. But that's just not how corporations operate, playing dumb about that isn't going to accomplish anything.
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Jul 24, 2018 15:52
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ricdesi posted:And? Extreme, edgy humor was en vogue in the 2000s, the only reason people like James Gunn, Dan Harmon, and Michael Ian Black are being singled out is because they're actively being singled out now, with the knowledge that - as envelope-pushing comedians - they would have pushed the envelope just as hard during an era in comedy where they had to stand out from everyone else doing the same. It's a bad look for Disney, the hosed up big time and they look like hypocrites because those tweets have been out there for ten years and they're only just now doing something about it. But two things can be true at the same time. Disney is poo poo, but also Gunn exposed himself to this by making the jokes on Twitter. Yes, even ten years ago. Ten years isn't really a very long time. My point in bringing up Gottfried is that he's an example of a comedian who has experienced this his entire career. He seems innocuous, and so he ends up in movies for kids or as a family friendly corporate mascot. Then he does his Gilbert thing and makes an offensive joke and people get riled up over it. Maybe he loses some work temporarily from it, but he just keeps going and keeps doing comedy. This is the life of a comedian who lives on the edge doing that kind of material. It's why Gilbert Gottfried is respected by comedians, but it's something that I'm sure Gottfried himself would tell you has cost him plenty of money over the course of his career. But it's a choice, one he made about the route he wanted his own career to take. Gunn made a similar choice by posting those jokes on Twitter.
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Jul 24, 2018 16:04
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CelticPredator posted:I really get slightly annoyed when you say 10 years wasn’t that long ago. The world was so much different than what it was today. The culture has shifted so far from then that it’s still completely alien to a lot of people. Sorry, not buying it. Rape and child abuse jokes were considered on the edge then just as they are now. It's just that being edgy for the sake of edgy was in vogue at the time, and so it was more common to see those kind of jokes. Absolutely does not change the fact that someone like Gunn knew that the jokes were meant to shock or potentially even offend. That was the point of the joke. So if you're gonna be that kind of comedian, be ready to not have every corporation beating down your door to employ you.
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Jul 24, 2018 16:12
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CelticPredator posted:Hangover 2 has an extended transgendered rape joke that’s played for laughs, tons of racist humor (I think? I barely remember that movie, it was so awful), and jokes at the expense of the mentally ill. Jack and Jill was filled with really cruel racist and gay jokes as most Sandler films are. None of that poo poo was funny even then. Sandler has been highly criticized for some of the jokes from that time and The Hangover 2 is reviled as one of the worst sequels of all time.
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Jul 24, 2018 16:15
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ricdesi posted:...the boldface part is the exact reason this entire situation is contrived, orchestrated bullshit. I can't disagree that it's contrived and disingenuous. It's a lovely situation and I hate Cernovich just as much as anyone. But for me, saying that Gunn is a blameless victim is a step to far.
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Jul 24, 2018 16:17
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If you're an entertainer of any kind, and you're on Twitter making jokes, it's the same as if you're on stage being recorded. Anyone who didn't realize that ten years ago was an idiot.
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Jul 24, 2018 17:04
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ricdesi posted:And the jokes James Gunn made in 2008 were pretty much in line with the movies James Gunn was making in 2008. Surprisingly, people make career changes. If Disney had a problem with the tweets in 2008 they shouldn't have hired him, agreed. But also, Gunn was an idiot. That is to say, if he's going to act like an innocent victim here, he's an idiot. But I've not seen a statement from him indicating that yet, so maybe he understands that this is just how the game is played. Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Jul 24, 2018 |
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Jul 24, 2018 17:11
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CelticPredator posted:Yo my dude he issued an apology where he put all the blame on himself. Good for him then, I admire that. So Gunn himself is more correct on this issue than posters itt, who are discussing it as if he's an innocent victim.
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Jul 24, 2018 17:23
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Yea I mean if we're gonna open that can of worms about the fact that almost all the art(at least the mainstream) that's created and consumed in America is filtered through corporations, and that artists who want to earn a living are beholden to those corporations, well ok let's do it but the problem goes waaaaaay beyond James Gunn.
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Jul 24, 2018 19:25
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WampaLord posted:And yet Johnny Depp, John Lassiter, etc. People keep making these kind of points as if anyone disagrees that Disney is poo poo. Don't hold your breath for them to all of the sudden start enforcing this stuff with consistency and fairness, it's not gonna happen.
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Jul 25, 2018 21:11
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WampaLord posted:I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of the outrage, not expecting Disney to suddenly act positively. Nazis are hypocrites, not really anything new about that. But Nazis have kids too and go to the movies and buy products, so Disney feels they have to worry about if they are going to pretend to be offended.
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Jul 25, 2018 21:23
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Plastik posted:It's so weird that people don't seem to understand that firing some people for some things and not firing other people for other, similar things is literally moral arbitration. It's literally the opposite. They ignore morality and simply act on what is best for the PR of the company, and therefore the ultimate bottom line. Morality doesn't enter into the thought process.
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Jul 25, 2018 22:18
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ricdesi posted:"This isn't the right kind of last straw, let's wait for a different one." Maybe instead of arguing on the internet about James Gunn being the last straw, we should do something about those concentration camps we have going or about the multiple genocides we're participating in.
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Jul 26, 2018 21:13
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ricdesi posted:Which is? gently caress you got mine
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Jul 27, 2018 16:25
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If you think we're getting out of this situation without bashing some Nazi heads in, you're fooling yourself. "Convincing them to stay home" ain't gonna do it.
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Jul 27, 2018 17:44
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It's totally possible that Chris Evans or Hemsworth just weren't James Gunn experts(they haven't personally worked with him), and so they didn't know about the offensive stuff he'd said in the past. I don't blame someone for not wanting to be associated with that kind of "comedy".
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Aug 1, 2018 14:06
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Bust Rodd posted:Evans is devoutly anti-trump and got into hot water over tweeting about how much he hates Trump and that’s a big part of why he’s stepping down from the role of Cap. While he's very openly anti-Trump, I don't know if I'd say he's leaving the role because of it. He's been looking for the exit since before Infinity War started shooting, it's come up in interviews a bunch of times over the past several years.
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Aug 1, 2018 14:57
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I think Chris Evans just desperately wants to move on with his life. At first he was like "hey everyone, I'm balding, see?!?! Can't have a balding Captain America can we?????", and when everyone was like hey whatever man just wear a hairpiece or shave your head who cares he had to move onto something else. But being honest about politics on Twitter isn't working either because Chris Evans is just too nice and basically incapable of offending anyone even when he's trying to.
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Aug 1, 2018 21:05
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Pirate Jet posted:What would Disney be able to do to Bautista if he just refused to show up? Sue him? Yea they could sue him and probably get a poo poo ton of damages out of it. Not just his salary, they could probably get more than that by claiming him breaching his contract caused damage to the project that can be measured monetarily(production costs, underperforming by X at the box office, etc.)
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Aug 6, 2018 16:55
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Fart City posted:In a working culture that tends to be full of carefully constructed statements produced by committee, I respect the hell out of Big Dave for being so direct and open about his dissatisfaction with how the Gunn firing went down. Of course that kind of outspokenness has been the kind of thing that would easily get talent blacklisted for “being difficult” in the past, but hopefully the visibility on this is too great and he’s still able to push his career forward without any artificial hurdles being placed in his way. Good on him for exercising his voice. The thing about Batista is he's been around the block, he's had multiple successful careers and I'm sure he's fully confident in his ability to go make money in any number of ways if Hollywood decides it doesn't want him anymore. He's like Terry Crews in that way, these are guys who don't define their whole identity through their acting work. So ok, I'm sure most people understand that he doesn't want to get sued for tens of millions of dollars, but that doesn't mean he's going to keep his mouth shut either. Because I truly don't think Batista gives all that much of a poo poo if he ever acts in big movies again, acting is basically his retirement after making big money with the WWE for a bunch of years.
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Aug 6, 2018 17:32
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Davros1 posted:poo poo, he probably knows that he could more than likely get a Brock Lesnar deal out of Vince McMahon if he wanted He doesn't even need to do that if he doesn't want to, or if it's not 100% on his terms. He already had a WWE return that didn't exactly go as planned and instead of sticking around to play a character he wasn't happy with, he just left again after one PPV match. Batista turns 50 years old this coming year, and he was at a main-event level for WWE for 5 solid years(main event spots pay very very well in WWE, not to mention merchandizing) and by all accounts has been relatively smart with his money. He can do anything he wants to do, or he can ride off into the sunset and not do anything at all.
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Aug 6, 2018 20:04
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Desperado Bones posted:Ugh. Im gonna skip the movie then. Sounds like is gonna be a mess (actors showing up just because is in their contracts is a big red sign for me). Part 2 was mostly poo poo anyway so it's no big loss. The real reason this is a big deal for the MCU is mostly because of how the Guardians have been positioned as the primary means of connecting all the cosmic stuff to what's happening on Earth. Especially now that Asgard is basically gone, if we never get another Guardians movie that means they'll have to figure out some other way to weave everything together. Captain Marvel being a success would go a long way towards accomplishing that though.
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Aug 8, 2018 19:43
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CelticPredator posted:Big loss for me, as that’s probably my favorite MCU movie. Not only that, didn't you say a while back that it's like one of your all-time favorite movies? I won't pretend I can understand that opinion but to each their own.
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Aug 8, 2018 20:24
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CelticPredator posted:No, not that far. Or that it had made your life better to be able to watch GotG2 or something like that? I dunno, I thought I remembered you making a very strong statement about GotG2 recently. Maybe I'm thinking about somebody else.
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Aug 8, 2018 20:28
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Wendell posted:This talk has me wondering why Gunn isn’t taking the guy to court. Like, ruin the fucker before he can ruin others. Not everyone is looking to be a crusader like that, Gunn might just want to end this as soon as possible and move on with his life. A big public lawsuit against Cernovich could drag on for over a year, I can understand why he'd pass on something like that.
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Aug 9, 2018 14:59
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Fart City posted:Hey, we got two new Vincent D’Onofrio performances out of those, one with a silly voice. Worth it. Hmmm, I never thought about it in those terms. I have to say I agree.
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Aug 15, 2018 18:36
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21 Muns posted:Maybe I'm giving them too much credit, but this sounds like something they'd put forward as a deliberately unworkable suggestion in order to stall until that one guy who refuses to reverse Gunn's firing retires. Hiring Feige is far from an unworkable suggestion. He's not radioactive after Ghostbusters, it was a disappointment but not the kind of colossal failure that's going to override the fact that he previously made three movies that brought in hundreds of millions on very reasonable budgets.
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Sep 7, 2018 18:20
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YOLOsubmarine posted:If they ever make another Guardians movie it will do fine, but if they don’t it doesn’t matter because they will just make some other comics movie instead and no matter what it is it will do about as well as Guardians did. I agree that most fans don't care about directors, but the Guardians actually are pretty drat important to the wider MCU in that they're the primary connection to all the cosmic stuff that's become so crucial. They have Captain Marvel coming up, but the Guardians series was already massively successful and important to being able to have a natural through-line from all the Earth-based characters to the space-based ones. I'm sure they really really really do not want to have to cut bait on the series entirely.
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Sep 11, 2018 16:40
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