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fist4jesus posted:Yup. Tell it to this guy. Could be though that he has somehow only worked for unicorn companies where HR gives a gently caress. After a point the employee churn is costing the company money with hiring and training new people and that's where I assume HR would step in. Then again maybe they just don't talk to accounting.
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Sep 21, 2018 15:30
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MonkeyBot posted:After a point the employee churn is costing the company money with hiring and training new people and that's where I assume HR would step in. Then again maybe they just don't talk to accounting. Again. Lol. Why would they step in? Processing the hirings and firings is about all hr do at most places. That and basic paperwork like change of address and bank if the company's systems don't allow self service.
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Sep 22, 2018 08:23
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MonkeyBot posted:After a point the employee churn is costing the company money with hiring and training new people and that's where I assume HR would step in. Then again maybe they just don't talk to accounting. HR's only purpose is to deal with potential lawsuits - it enforces new hire procedures, termination procedures, etc. It doesn't care about employee performance and budgets or career growth - that is the responsibility of the departments the employees work for, not HR. If a manager wants to fire an employee, the only thing HR cares about is 'did the manager follow the appropriate procedures set forth by the company to do so.' You should treat talking to HR like talking to the cops.
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Nov 15, 2018 18:31
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Wow, guess I was an HR Advisor at a unicorn company then. If a new hire manager went on the warpath like this on an otherwise totally normally performing staff member we would have been on it ASAP to establish what the actual gently caress. At the very least we would have been involved in any demotion process (not to mention half of what she did was appalling process here anyway) and seen both sides of the story. People don't typically magically stop performing just because a new manager comes in, it looks fishy as gently caress if the manager starts performance processes the second they walk through the door. E: Actually who am I kidding of course it was a unicorn company. Before I left the profession I did a quick contract at a much larger company and brought along the same principles in my approach to work (be helpful! give a poo poo! actually know anything about what the business does!) and when a manager approached my boss with astounded positive feedback saying I was genuinely useful and helpful for an HR person, I was gently taken aside and told that this approach "wasn't how we do things here" because the norm was to be unapproachable and say no. Tamarillo fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Nov 15, 2018 |
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Nov 15, 2018 22:55
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Tamarillo posted:Wow, guess I was an HR Advisor at a unicorn company then. If a new hire manager went on the warpath like this on an otherwise totally normally performing staff member we would have been on it ASAP to establish what the actual gently caress. At the very least we would have been involved in any demotion process (not to mention half of what she did was appalling process here anyway) and seen both sides of the story. People don't typically magically stop performing just because a new manager comes in, it looks fishy as gently caress if the manager starts performance processes the second they walk through the door.
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Nov 16, 2018 00:49
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Tamarillo posted:Wow, guess I was an HR Advisor at a unicorn company then. If a new hire manager went on the warpath like this on an otherwise totally normally performing staff member we would have been on it ASAP to establish what the actual gently caress. At the very least we would have been involved in any demotion process (not to mention half of what she did was appalling process here anyway) and seen both sides of the story. People don't typically magically stop performing just because a new manager comes in, it looks fishy as gently caress if the manager starts performance processes the second they walk through the door. Did your business have a union?
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Dec 5, 2018 07:15
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At the unicorn company - no, mercifully not. I totally back the reasons for unions existing and absolutely believe they can achieve good things for employee rights and collective bargaining, but the ones I dealt with in previous roles were mostly staffed by intractable dickheads who ran down any employer in any situation and took a strongly opposing, uncompromising stance in any negotiation no matter what the employee situation actually was (even when they had a pretty good deal!) At the larger company where usefulness and efficiency was frowned on - yes, union.
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Dec 5, 2018 09:03
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That’s the opposite of my situation. My non/union jobs sucked and my current job with a union has one of the best workplace cultures I’ve ever had.
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Dec 5, 2018 14:03
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Only trust your fists, HR will never help you
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Dec 5, 2018 15:09
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veni veni veni posted:I guess I haven't updated this in a while. I went in last Monday, told her I couldn't work in the hostile environment she created and that I'd be resigning effective immediately. It sucked I didn't get to say bye to more than a few people but I just wanted to get the gently caress out of there and never look back at that point. I went to HR and attempted to detail the harassment and lies, there was so much I couldn't even get to all of it. HR guy told me he'd take it seriously, but I know that isn't probably true. I told him "this probably seems like I'm just being salty, but I'm not mad I just hope this meeting gives you all some pause the next time this inevitably happens. And I think you are going to lose a good chunk of the staff because of her attitude because morale is horrible right now" I took the week off and just chilled and painted and played video games. Anyone at the management level who's actually competent knows the old adage, 'there's no such thing as bad jobs- people quit bad bosses' Any job can be tolerable if you're treated with respect and managed well. Likewise any perfect job can immediately flip into being complete poo poo if the wrong person is put in charge of it. If your now ex-HR department is competent they'll see this as a  and take it seriously. If they're just as garbage as your now ex-boss then... well hopefully your coworkers will be emboldened by you jumping ship.
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Dec 16, 2018 07:24
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I Demand Food posted:HR is first and foremost there to protect the company's interests, not those of the employees. a manager so bad that they start causing good employees to quit is, in fact, hurting a company's interests - and HR departments that recognize this and notify the relevant senior managers do exist. they aren't particularly common, but they exist. also the manager in this case sounds so bad they might someday do something that creates a real legal liability. HR does care about preventing hostile work environments because that is a thing people sue companies over. Earwicker fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Dec 28, 2018 |
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Dec 28, 2018 02:01
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One thing with HR is that they vary widely with regard to their power and functions. At some companies they just handle payroll, paperwork, and benefits, while in others they may be developing company strategy for attracting and retaining talent. HR is only as powerful as the upper management lets them be. If they have advice about a bad manager, it only matters if they have control over them.
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Dec 28, 2018 06:51
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I Demand Food posted:HR is first and foremost there to protect the company's interests, not those of the employees. Almost correct. HR are there for themselves first and foremost, then the company and never for the employee. There's a reason so much useless paperwork ends up funnelled through HR departments and it's job justification at their end. If you get something good from HR it's because they hosed over someone who was in their firing line in the process and you got lucky.
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Jan 1, 2019 04:59
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Tamarillo posted:Wow, guess I was an HR Advisor at a unicorn company then. If a new hire manager went on the warpath like this on an otherwise totally normally performing staff member we would have been on it ASAP to establish what the actual gently caress. At the very least we would have been involved in any demotion process (not to mention half of what she did was appalling process here anyway) and seen both sides of the story. People don't typically magically stop performing just because a new manager comes in, it looks fishy as gently caress if the manager starts performance processes the second they walk through the door. HR at one place I worked were useless people who didn't even understand how the benefits packages they managed worked and would refuse to make necessary phone calls. They also failed to protect's company's interests every single time. With that said, it was only an annoying game of trying to trick someone into doing their job when I had to do anything involving benefits/payroll. They tried to charge me 3.6x what they should have for switching from single to family because they wanted to backdate starting it by 2 months and force a post-tax payment. Anyhow, they weren't malicious or against the employees. They were just real do-nothings who would have likely been fired somewhere else. HR at other places was pretty good or a non-existent shell that amounted to "talk to almost anyone", but I've only worked at places where the employees were generally treated pretty well. Khorne fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Jan 1, 2019 |
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Jan 1, 2019 15:09
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HR is to a corporation almost exactly as the police is to a city or state. They are not your friends. Ever. But whereas many people will live their whole long lives without ever having to meaningfully interact with the police, everyone who spends their career in the corporate world inevitably, sooner or later, learns the hard way that HR is not your friend.
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Jan 1, 2019 15:42
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Earwicker posted:a manager so bad that they start causing good employees to quit is, in fact, hurting a company's interests - and HR departments that recognize this and notify the relevant senior managers do exist. lol we have lost 20% of our staff in the last 6 months, toxic managers and environment. What are HR doing? In my case actively making things worse. Case in point: We are offering team senior positions with *very* vague position descriptions. Dude is perfect for it but dubious. If it doesn't work out in the first 1-3 months, I can just step down, yes? HR - No. Its up to your managers to work it out with you. So dude wont apply. In fact no one applied apart from a relatively green guy who actually quit a few weeks later.
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Jan 19, 2019 22:55
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Holy poo poo maybe companies and their senior management can be run in wildly different ways depending on the people involved and the responsibilities they are given. Nah just kidding a lvl 2 HR manager can create a training plan but they have to specialise as a lvl 6 dispute wizard before they can identify an incompetent hire.
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Jan 20, 2019 00:33
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Eric the Mauve posted:HR is to a corporation almost exactly as the police is to a city or state. I have always found cops and HR to be fine, glad I'm not American
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Jan 20, 2019 00:35
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Dog Pipes posted:It's a good point. I'm in the UK, and it seems like a potential case of constructive dismissal. Hmm, i'd not heard of constructive dismissal before. That's an interesting one as i'm in a very simialr situation to the one the OP was in. I've been at a company for about 9 years now and last summer i was promoted to the top of my department. This is 1 level below the CEO (my boss) of a mid sized company of about 100 people. At the same time i was promoted, a new manager was hired from a bigger company to come in and operate at the same level but overseeing another department. Within this last year we and another at our level, shared company objectives, but i spotted quite quickly that this individual wouldn't include me in meetings for the 3 of us to discuss our mutual projects (the 3rd party is one of those very agreeable types). This person also didn't like when i critically challenged decisions they made that impacted my dept without consulting me. Even after confronting them about the exclusion (in front of HR), nothing changed and our mutual line manager told me i wasn't being included because i wasn't being collaborative as i worked on my own on projects and was challenging when working with this individual. Prior to Christmas my manager raised "just an idea" to me about this person and their team taking on the management and operational responsibilities of my department while i retained all of the strategy/development/growth parts of it. I wasn't keen and made this obvious, but this 'idea' was pretty much a pre-made decison of his and my role was changed. This was to include a 3 month period of transtion, where i would be hands on picking up the work of my dept that this other team wasn't capable to do whilst i worked on the dept strategic stuff. Not only that, but this person was given 'temporary' powers equal to that of my boss and i was removed from both the group meetings and mutual objectives that everyone at my level attended. I was allowed to stay in the senior communications chain though so that i was aware of what was happening in the company. During this time i've had to, fairly obviously, spend almost all of my time doing junior level work and picking up tasks that were taken away from my responsibility. Simultaneously, this new manager has continuted to cut me out of things that stilll fall into my remit or consideration. As a result, it's impacted my ability to do the other senior tasks i have as my job remit. His solution? I've to just let this manager decide what my priorites are and what i've to focus on. Which has resulted in the majority of my time being put on less important tasks while i'm cut out of the loop of bigger decision making items. Someone (not my boss) has also disconnected me from the senior communication chain. I can easilly find out who, but the only person in the group who would care to is this manager. A recent chat to a colleage revealed that my boss told him, my 'transition period' will continue for a further 3 months and that at that point I will be changing departments completely. A new task i was given, which was supposed to be just ~10% of my role, will baloon up to almost all of it, whist the the department strategies/development aspect of my former role will be removed and given to this other manager and i've to be 'on hand' to continue the type of support i've been giving during this transition period. None of this has been discussed with me, this new task is only loosely related to my field of specialsm and will impact my future career if an entire role is 'made up' around it. During this time, i've raised the pattern of exclusion, the cutting off of the comms and feelings of ostracism caused by this, but my boss just keeps telling me not to sweat the small stuff and that i don't need the same info i used to have in order to do this new task he's given me. From a top level perspective does the above chain of events sound like something that fits within grounds for constructive dismissal?
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Jan 27, 2019 23:37
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veni veni veni posted:Sorry if this is kind of E/N Dam! you hosed. i don't know what to tell ya.
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Jan 28, 2019 15:27
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Kin posted:me. Its sounds like, in my opinion that they are trying to phase you out. It happened to my boss when I was interning at a radio station. They went from xyz manager to "cluster task manager " to being fired. (No I wasn't who replaced them)
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Feb 7, 2019 02:11
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MyLord posted:Dam! you hosed. i don't know what to tell ya. I know what to tell you: read the loving thread.
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Feb 7, 2019 21:24
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joebuddah posted:Its sounds like, in my opinion that they are trying to phase you out. It happened to my boss when I was interning at a radio station. They went from xyz manager to "cluster task manager " to being fired. (No I wasn't who replaced them) Yeah, this is pretty much happening. In a catchup today my obvious unhappiness was raised and I stated that I had no interest in my role being further changed as it would be like starting a brand new career. He was nice about the way he said it but the message to me was that there's no place for me in the company now if I don't want that 2nd version of the new role. He's also the sort who never goes back on a decision he's made, and just told me that being in a leadership position was off the table at this company and whatever issues I flagged didn't change that.
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Feb 12, 2019 00:57
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Your answer lies in your contract. Request a copy from HR and ask why your role is changing. Just don't consent to any changes in future without a discussion on renumeration. For every change to your contract I would expect a change in your rate of pay. If that means you get paid more for less responsibility then have at it. Also if your old job doesn't exist with the company any more that's fine. Just ask for redundancy and tell that that you will apply for the new role if it takes your fancy. But you will deffo need that sweet paycheck first.
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Feb 12, 2019 20:39
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Also..... If you take redundancy and they then give all your old responsibilities to that new manager you could take them to tribunal and get a sweet settlement. I knew a guy that got 200k once because of that and then got his old job back which was hilarious. They made him redundant and then hired about 4 post grads on peanuts to do his old job between them and he had them over a barrel when it went to tribunal.
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Feb 12, 2019 20:46
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