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Yeah but you can do both? Even if you don't turn up to the meetings because you're busy doing anarchist stuff it still makes a lot of sense to try and retain control of the group which might actually control the government sometime soon? Like you've got an organization that is at least nominally aligned with a bunch of your goals and which gives you a vote, by virtue of membership, on its policy and executive leadership, which has been demonstrated to be arguably one of the most significant political forces in the last decade. That's a weird tool to give away unless you're short of money. You don't have to respect it but I can't imagine why on earth you wouldn't use it?? I'm saying, as an anarchist, why on earth would you have a principled objection to entryism? OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Sep 1, 2018 |
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Sep 1, 2018 00:49
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disengagement with parliamentary politics in britain in 2018 seems like possibly the worst time and place in history to do that, from a revolutionary perspective
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Sep 1, 2018 00:50
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Guavanaut posted:Wait, is that an option? I checked and neither one is a Category 3 forbidden word so "The Labour Party With Blackjack and Hookers" is a-ok. "Hookers" might fall under offensive language though. Looking back at goddamnedtwisto's link for making this dumb post I saw that it's forbidden to name your party with the words Ratepayers, Residents, or Tenants without referring to a geographical area. Does anyone know why this is? I assume there's a story behind it. quote:Category 4 prohibited words are:
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Sep 1, 2018 00:56
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brb registering The Cooperative Party With Twenty-one and Sex Workers
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Sep 1, 2018 00:58
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V. Illych L. posted:disengagement with parliamentary politics in britain in 2018 seems like possibly the worst time and place in history to do that, from a revolutionary perspective Jeremy Corbyn is not going to usher in a revolution.
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Sep 1, 2018 01:24
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Nor is the labour party losing or becoming centrist again, unless, as before, you're an accelerationist.
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Sep 1, 2018 01:26
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Marxist-Jezzinist posted:Jeremy Corbyn is not going to usher in a revolution. No, but this is about shifting the Overton window. Nobody thinks corbyn is going to immediately usher in post scarcity space communism, but the society he would leave would be so much closer. OwlFancier posted:It is literally the only temptation of going tankie. 'Tankie' isn't just shorthand for authoritarian, it implies a weird reductionist commitment to dogma and an underlying social conservatism. It's entirely possible to agree that violence may be necessary, even via the state, to some extent without being a tankie. ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Sep 1, 2018 |
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Sep 1, 2018 01:35
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So how long do we have to wait for your revolution then? I mean I wish we could just go pillage the south east too but i'm still going to vote Labour in the mean time.
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Sep 1, 2018 01:39
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suggesting corbyn isn't a revolution unto himself in the time where lying shitheads are the norm for world leaders is a special kind of galaxy brain imo
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Sep 1, 2018 01:41
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Marxist-Jezzinist posted:While my local party is deeply concerned with fundraising and my local momentum group holds very serious discussions on fully automated luxury gay space whatever, anarchists are feeding people and mobilising to make fascists go away. I mean there's nothing about that which is exclusive to anarchists, much as I intensely admire anarchists for the good work they often do, it's not like they have a much bigger plan for the widescale societal change that's necessary. TBH, at this junction in time there should be both the usual boring but necessary fundraising/party shite to keep Labour on the straight and narrow while also engaging in direct action to make peoples lives better. Community activism should be an important part of Momentum, about making it more than just another pressure group inside the Labour Party. No, Jeremy Corbyn isn't going to usher in a revolution, clearly. And I have a deep cynicism towards the chances of the sort of longterm policy making that would be needed to unfuck the last 39 years of neoliberal horseshit and just get us back to an acceptable point in the current media circus where politicians struggle to think 5 years down the road, never mind 50. But nor are anarchists. Or tankies. A revolution isn't happening in Britain unless things get a whole fuckload worse, like, way worse than Brexit is going to end up being. What we've got is a chance to take a party that has name recognition, established membership and all that poo poo, and is currently polling at around 37%-41% with a leader further left than the leader of any British political party with Westminster representation since the Communist MP lost its last MP in 1950. It's a serious chance to improve people's lives on a national scale and reform society. Like, yeah, revolution is probably necessary to end the loving hellworld we've got but society getting to a point where it's bad enough that enough of the British public would be radicalised enough to make it feasible is a pretty loving depressing prospect.
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Sep 1, 2018 01:42
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I just realised I'm going to need a name change
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Sep 1, 2018 01:47
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gently caress
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Sep 1, 2018 01:47
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Tangentially related though, I would love it if Labour got more involved with community work like homeless shelters and food banks. God knows they have the money now with all those new members, and it would be doing good and an immediate PR coup.
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Sep 1, 2018 01:48
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ThomasPaine posted:'Tankie' isn't just shorthand for authoritarian, it implies a weird reductionist commitment to dogma and an underlying social conservatism. It's entirely possible to agree that violence may be necessary, even via the state, to some extent without being a tankie. I was trying to suggest that I don't think it's necessary and probably isn't even helpful, I just personally lust for it occasionally.
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Sep 1, 2018 01:49
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all politics is violence - albert s hoover
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Sep 1, 2018 01:57
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ThomasPaine posted:Tangentially related though, I would love it if Labour got more involved with community work like homeless shelters and food banks. God knows they have the money now with all those new members, and it would be doing good and an immediate PR coup. Snipee fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Sep 1, 2018 |
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Sep 1, 2018 04:27
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Snipee posted:What is Labor currently doing with its money anyways? No idea, might want to ask an Australian
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Sep 1, 2018 05:02
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there's a certain kind of activist that keeps hoping Labour the party turns into a federated commune, and Labour seems content to encourage that belief - why not? "if you want it so much, gently caress off to rural Northumberland and try to organize people who are 100% concerned about DEFRA and the CAP and the CFP and not really so concerned about the homeless man outside Boots" seems like a reliable way to dissipate middle-class-guilt energies emanating from Labour volunteers from the suburban Midlands at some point a "actually, let's spend all of this money on suburban homeless shelters" demand is going to come to a boil, and then the party would have to put its foot down, but not yet, perhaps does Labour really have tons of new retained earnings to throw around? I haven't picked through the party budget this year, mind you, but the conceit, wasn't it, was that membership revenue is what allows the party to give large donors the finger as and when the membership decides ("large" including e.g. trade unions that might be out of step, mind). A substitute, not a new revenue source. The last time this was brought up I emphasized that the order of magnitude of state welfare spending is large - really, really, large - esp as compared to what is otherwise a mass media op. That's why welfare states have income taxes, not donation plates. Paying a few hundred people to keep the show going (as an operating expense that is responsible for being able to continue to generate that revenue - staffers who generate surplus value, one might say) is a very different beast than proposing to divert funds to Project: Solve Homelessness In Country Of Sixty Million People. You don't have to dig into the precise numbers to eyeball the differences in magnitudes - the only thing which begins to grapple with the latter is Country of Sixty Million People Cough Up A Third To A Fifth Of Their Cash Flow. ronya fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Sep 1, 2018 |
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Sep 1, 2018 05:11
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Marxist-Jezzinist posted:Cottage cheese is poo poo garbage. gently caress off
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Sep 1, 2018 07:35
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Spangly A posted:
Would be fun though
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Sep 1, 2018 07:37
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What if we just make Hodges do a panto where he's mock hanged every night? Full safety gear on the noose so it catches on hooks in his costume, firing squad with blanks, electric chair that plays fart noises and sprays brown water out of the seat while the lights flicker. Top it all off with a crowd who cheer and throw nuts at him, three shows a night, five nights a week, proceeds go to good causes like housing the homeless and medicine for refugees. All the visceral fun of a bloodthirsty crowd watching a live execution and none of the guilt. A full year of that should be adequate punishment.
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Sep 1, 2018 08:09
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Dabir posted:No idea, might want to ask an Australian  You got me.
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Sep 1, 2018 08:12
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A mate made an observation on Facebook this morning - when they were digging a new train line in the seventies, they decided to rename it from the Fleet Line to the Jubilee Line as it would open in 1977, Brenda's Silver Jubilee. It was then delayed 2 years so actually opened in 1979, making the renaming a bit silly. So if naming a tube line after something royal means that it's likely to be delayed enough to be anachronistic, does this mean that the same curse will happen here and Crossrail being renamed Elizabeth Line has just signed Her Maj's death warrant?
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Sep 1, 2018 08:19
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ThomasPaine posted:Tangentially related though, I would love it if Labour got more involved with community work like homeless shelters and food banks. God knows they have the money now with all those new members, and it would be doing good and an immediate PR coup. In my area, there is a large overlap between Labour party members, community activism (food banks / homeless / environment / mental health / etc) and local church membership (C of E, methodist, quakers at least. I don't know enough about all party members to note if other religious bodies are represented) as per my hastily created Venn Diagram here: 
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Sep 1, 2018 08:49
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Marxist-Jezzinist posted:Jeremy Corbyn is not going to usher in a revolution. He's closer to a revolution than the anarchists are
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Sep 1, 2018 08:58
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Angepain posted:to clarify, were these protests in favour of cottage cheese or against? this is very important to whether i support them as there is clearly only one correct view on the matter "cottage cheese (and by extension the basic cost of living) is too high someone do something!"
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Sep 1, 2018 09:02
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Marxist-Jezzinist posted:Cottage cheese is poo poo garbage.  quark's great though
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Sep 1, 2018 09:21
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Cottage cheese is considered a basic ingridient in Israel and is very widely used. It's not bad.
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Sep 1, 2018 09:27
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ronya posted:The last time this was brought up I emphasized that the order of magnitude of state welfare spending is large - really, really, large - esp as compared to what is otherwise a mass media op. That's why welfare states have income taxes, not donation plates. Paying a few hundred people to keep the show going (as an operating expense that is responsible for being able to continue to generate that revenue - staffers who generate surplus value, one might say) is a very different beast than proposing to divert funds to Project: Solve Homelessness In Country Of Sixty Million People. You don't have to dig into the precise numbers to eyeball the differences in magnitudes - the only thing which begins to grapple with the latter is Country of Sixty Million People Cough Up A Third To A Fifth Of Their Cash Flow. Yeah, use taxes to fund core government responsibilities imo. Rightwing idiots are always gonna be like ~no you see when the state steps back, society steps in!!~ like in Cameron's big society and stuff like that, but it doesn't really. I still think Labour buying derelict payday lenders and forgiving all debt would be a really good benefit/cost thing, if done tastefully at least
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Sep 1, 2018 09:32
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oh good the guardian have made the labour antisemitism bullshit their headline news including comments from david blunkett lol
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Sep 1, 2018 09:33
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Miftan posted:Cottage cheese is considered a basic ingridient in Israel and is very widely used. It's not bad. The consistency weirds me out. Quark's pretty much the same thing only smooth like thick yoghurt
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Sep 1, 2018 09:34
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lol interviews with blair's defense minister and home secretary jfc
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Sep 1, 2018 09:36
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Cottage cheese sounds like a euphemism for pools of old crusty semen found on the floors of public toilets, and in reality is only marginally more appealing as a foodstuff
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Sep 1, 2018 09:37
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No one reads the guardian so who cares. It's odd they haven't got behind jez a bit as he is a North London no if only to see if it would hold up their sagging ratings
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Sep 1, 2018 09:37
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Tijuana Bibliophile posted:The consistency weirds me out. Quark's pretty much the same thing only smooth like thick yoghurt Israel is full of popular things that are unappealing to most people
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Sep 1, 2018 09:56
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Marxist-Jezzinist posted:Cottage cheese is poo poo garbage. Cottage cheese is bad UNTIL you start going to the gym and lifting weights and then your body legit starts craving completely different food. Cottage cheese is amazing when you're building muscle because it's healthy protein and goes with everything and you actually start craving it. Then you injure yourself and stop getting fit and turn into an absolute unit and eat pizza instead of cottage cheese.
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Sep 1, 2018 09:58
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Breath Ray posted:No one reads the guardian so who cares. It's odd they haven't got behind jez a bit as he is a North London no if only to see if it would hold up their sagging ratings Seriously did you take some kind of knock to the head around 1999 and have problems forming new memories since? Between this and your belief that the civil service represents a stable, well-paid career path I'm genuinely worried for you.
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Sep 1, 2018 09:59
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WhatEvil posted:Cottage cheese is bad UNTIL you start going to the gym and lifting weights and then your body legit starts craving completely different food. Cottage cheese is amazing when you're building muscle because it's healthy protein and goes with everything and you actually start craving it. Can confirm this happened to me. I put cottage cheese in my overnight oats / protein shakes and eat it with most lunch and evening meals now. Used to hate it.
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Sep 1, 2018 10:00
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RabidWeasel posted:Can confirm this happened to me. I put cottage cheese in my overnight oats / protein shakes and eat it with most lunch and evening meals now. Used to hate it. Pro tip: just dip a cucumber in it. Also works in slices, I guess.
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Sep 1, 2018 10:05
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goddamnedtwisto posted:A mate made an observation on Facebook this morning - when they were digging a new train line in the seventies, they decided to rename it from the Fleet Line to the Jubilee Line as it would open in 1977, Brenda's Silver Jubilee. It was then delayed 2 years so actually opened in 1979, making the renaming a bit silly. If it were delayed enough that it opened after her death that would be more, not less, appropriate. Naming something in memory of someone still alive is the silly anachronism already
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Sep 1, 2018 10:11
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