Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
FLIPADELPHIA
Apr 27, 2007

Heavy Shit
Grimey Drawer
Who cares

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser

Me, because I’m trying to make it make a vague kind of sense in my campaign. Most people seem to be engaging with the question except you. ‘Who cares’ is the post of a loving idiot with nothing to offer.

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007


Soiled Meat
A less adversarial way to phrase it might be "what specific issue are you having with the scale in your campaign?" Did a player just flat out ask for some rough numbers? Are you unsure how big a certain group should be? Sorry, I may have missed the OP.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser

Jack B Nimble posted:

A less adversarial way to phrase it might be "what specific issue are you having with the scale in your campaign?" Did a player just flat out ask for some rough numbers? Are you unsure how big a certain group should be? Sorry, I may have missed the OP.

My initial post on the previous page starts with

quote:

Has anyone ever addressed the underpopulation problem in the Warhammer setting?

If yes, who and where. If no, it’s a topic for discussion in a fairly quiet thread.

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012

60 or so million people served in the first world war. Trying to make the Warhammer World somehow support those numbers is way more work than simply disregarding the End Times as nonsense.

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007


Soiled Meat
Right, Ok. So my response would be that the IP is a collaborative project, no one person has or deserves any sort of final control over its cannon, and whoever at GW or FFG or wherever that provided an obviously wrong number should be ignored.

Now, if you want realistic numbers, and to draw some inspiration from history: France had about fifteen million people in 17th century. Paris, a massive city at the time that would be an excellent analogue for Altdorf, had roughly half a million people.

Armies tended to be lots of relatively small groups in the thirty years war, but they were always there, they were always fighting to some degree, and Europe really did suffer critical manpower shortages, especially when you consider that you get more soldiers by embedding raw recruits among experienced troops and then have them learn by doing - which means if your forces are decimated and you lose most of your troops the speed at which you could raise more is drastically reduced. Think tens of thousands, not hundreds of thousands. This sort of shortage suits the feeling of impending calamity of Warhammer Fantasy very well.

Also, if they stay in one area for any length of time they tend to strip it bare of food and things get very nasty between the soldiers and the peasants and burghers, regardless of sides. Warhammer Fantasy doesn't really engage with this and sort of assumes a level of logistical support much more like the Roman Empire or the last couple centuries. I'm personally playing a character right now that became a Priestess of Myrmidia after being orphaned when Empire troops ransacked her village: they weren't bandits, they weren't influenced by chaos, there had just been a battle nearby and the troops went wild in the aftermath, it's just a thing that happens.

Edit: I'd recommend Richelieu's Army by David Parrot

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Jack B Nimble posted:

Right, Ok. So my response would be that the IP is a collaborative project, no one person has or deserves any sort of final control over its cannon, and whoever at GW or FFG or wherever that provided an obviously wrong number should be ignored.

They basically had the correct solution to this later on by just not bothering to give direct population figures and saying if a city was especially large instead. After all, the world is materially quite different and who knows how much many of those differences will affect basic stuff like that, plus you don't need the direct numbers. It's enough that Altdorf is loving huge and full of people from tons of nations and places and has wizards and weird colleges. You don't really need an exact population.

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007


Soiled Meat
You make an excellent point because it was an agricultural revolution that caused the relatively recent population spikes, and the implications of "literal magic" on food, on healthcare, etc are just mind boggling.

But if you're going with "this world is broadly a historical pastiche", then real numbers could be useful. And useful is all that matters in fiction, "true" is meaningless.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser

Jack B Nimble posted:

Right, Ok. So my response would be that the IP is a collaborative project, no one person has or deserves any sort of final control over its cannon, and whoever at GW or FFG or wherever that provided an obviously wrong number should be ignored.

Now, if you want realistic numbers, and to draw some inspiration from history: France had about fifteen million people in 17th century. Paris, a massive city at the time that would be an excellent analogue for Altdorf, had roughly half a million people.

Armies tended to be lots of relatively small groups in the thirty years war, but they were always there, they were always fighting to some degree, and Europe really did suffer critical manpower shortages, especially when you consider that you get more soldiers by embedding raw recruits among experienced troops and then have them learn by doing - which means if your forces are decimated and you lose most of your troops the speed at which you could raise more is drastically reduced. Think tens of thousands, not hundreds of thousands. This sort of shortage suits the feeling of impending calamity of Warhammer Fantasy very well.

Also, if they stay in one area for any length of time they tend to strip it bare of food and things get very nasty between the soldiers and the peasants and burghers, regardless of sides. Warhammer Fantasy doesn't really engage with this and sort of assumes a level of logistical support much more like the Roman Empire or the last couple centuries. I'm personally playing a character right now that became a Priestess of Myrmidia after being orphaned when Empire troops ransacked her village: they weren't bandits, they weren't influenced by chaos, there had just been a battle nearby and the troops went wild in the aftermath, it's just a thing that happens.

Edit: I'd recommend Richelieu's Army by David Parrot

Excellent, thank you!

wiegieman
Apr 22, 2010

Royalty is a continuous cutting motion


Jack B Nimble posted:

You make an excellent point because it was an agricultural revolution that caused the relatively recent population spikes, and the implications of "literal magic" on food, on healthcare, etc are just mind boggling.

But if you're going with "this world is broadly a historical pastiche", then real numbers could be useful. And useful is all that matters in fiction, "true" is meaningless.

There's an agricultural-magical revolution with decent imperial infrastructure but there's also regular hordes of hell vikings and hell cowmen, and sometimes vampires with hordes of the walking dead.

Basically the farmland around Altdorf and every other major city is impossibly productive and never gets exhausted, but once you leave the area the army patrols things get sketchy fast -- but people are always trying to carve new settlements out of the wilderness because the settled areas are so dense.

wiegieman fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Jul 26, 2022

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Goatman Prime lurks behind every bush, unbidden and sinister.

Eandr
Oct 9, 2012
Theo Axner had a go at population figures, although not working strictly with the canonical Warhammer World

https://theenemywithinremixed.wordpress.com/2022/06/20/the-modified-old-world-a-map-of-the-empire-plus-notes-on-demographics-and-population/

thefakenews
Oct 20, 2012

Megazver posted:

Has anyone tried running any WFRP 4e material with Warlock! ? I suspect it might be more my speed than vanilla 4e.

I have run Rough Night at the Three Feathers with Warlock!. It worked quite well, although things went badly for the PCs. The group had no spellcasters, so we didn't test that side of things out however.

I do intend to try running some more WFRP content with Warlock! at some point.

Megazver
Jan 13, 2006

thefakenews posted:

I have run Rough Night at the Three Feathers with Warlock!. It worked quite well, although things went badly for the PCs. The group had no spellcasters, so we didn't test that side of things out however.

I do intend to try running some more WFRP content with Warlock! at some point.

Thanks for replying!

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you
We are moving out of the Empire.

Lord Cyrahzax
Oct 11, 2012

Ooh. Do we have any more information, or just the cover for now?

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

Lord Cyrahzax posted:

Ooh. Do we have any more information, or just the cover for now?

Just the cover.

Jeff the Mediocre
Dec 30, 2013


I hope there are rules for playing as a lizard man. Could be a skink on tour of the old world

Jeff the Mediocre fucked around with this message at 12:43 on Aug 18, 2022

Mycroft Holmes
Mar 26, 2010

by Azathoth
Wonder what an all halfling campaign looks like.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser
Pretty short :mmmhmm:

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
Sea of Claws is out, much sooner than I expected.

Do we know anything about what books (aside from Lustria) are expected in 2023 and the rest of this year, if any?

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

Rand Brittain posted:

Sea of Claws is out, much sooner than I expected.

Do we know anything about what books (aside from Lustria) are expected in 2023 and the rest of this year, if any?

Lustria is the only one we know of currently.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

Rand Brittain posted:

Sea of Claws is out, much sooner than I expected.

Do we know anything about what books (aside from Lustria) are expected in 2023 and the rest of this year, if any?

Reading Sea of Claws and I notice this is Wulfrik before he got cursed.

HidaO-Win
Jun 5, 2013

"And I did it, because I was a man who had exhausted reason and thus turned to magicks"
Archives of the Empire vol 3 is out before Lustria, they just forgot to announce it.

Badactura
Feb 14, 2019

My wish lives in the future.
Are there alcohol belts in the Old World? where would they lie along? I read in the 4E Core that wine is produced and popular in southern parts of the Reikland, so I assume it would split through the different provinces of the Empire.

Clearly Tilea, Bretonnia, and Estalia are wine countries. I would guess the Border Princes are too. Within the Empire I think that the Reikland, Wissenland, and Averland could all potentially be wine counties.

Starting from the North, Kislev is a spirit country for certain. I would also potentially put Ostermark and Ostland in that category due to cultural similarities.

That would leave Hochland, Nordland, Middenland, Talabecland, Stirland, and Sylvania as beer country. That's my first round of thoughts at least.

I wonder if proximity to dwarves might push a region towards or away from beer consumption. I also wonder if proximity to Chaos encourages heavier proof spirits for heavier drinking.

Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges



Anyone have any tips for running Power Behind the Throne? Picking up my WFRP group for the first time in a year and a half and we're gonna ease back into the campaign, which ended shortly after Castle Wittgenstein blew up.

Here's what I'm thinking as a hook: My players never killed or captured Etelka Herzen. They will receive a missive from their hiring captain in Bogenhafen to investigate Etelka further, and information will lead them towards Middenheim, as well as the captain's contact in the city: Nastassia the spy. This, combined with the fruitful proposition from Matthias Blucher will nudge them further in that direction. Some of the new players have interest in going to Middenheim on their own, such as visiting the Carnival for a variety of reasons.

The job from Matthias Blucher will further nudge them in this direction.

Depending on who the players begin interacting with, Nastassia or Rallane can act as the initial conduit of the plot, letting the players in on the power plays going on behind the scenes and how things have been off lately, what with the Graf's new taxes in place. This will (hopefully) nudge them in the direction of investigating the taxes further, perhaps with the addition of some clues such as Gotthard Wittgenstein being in the court, which could interest the players since DOTR ended with them killing his sister and blowing up his familial castle.

Following Gotthard will lead them towards the Jade Sceptre storyline from the companion, as well as Etelka Herzen, but they will discover that these two had little to do with whats been going on in Middenheim.

From there things will be played by ear. I'm planning to introduce most of the optional combat-related events to spice things up, since I know my players and it would be great to break up the investigation and talking sections. Chaos Strikes By Night seems like a great way to spice up the start of a session.


Any extra suggestions would be greatly appreciated! My players are currently used to D&D4e which we've been playing for about a year straight, so this will be a big change for many of the newer players (2-3 players out of the 5-6 total). They've done investigative roleplay in the form of Call of Cthulhu and some other systems, but primarily they're more used to heroic fantasy.

Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges



A few sessions into Power Behind the Throne and my players are loving it so far. They got over the initial hump of the hook pretty quickly, and took right away to investigating the taxes.

I wanted to encourage them to take good notes, because I can't account for everything they've done over the course of a single session, and in PBTT there are lots of NPCs to speak to and information to mark, so I started giving them bonus XP at the end of every session for taking good notes. This is purely done via the honor system, but I have noticed a HUGE increase in how strong their notes are and how well they retain things like names and conversations.

They have a contact in the city acting as a sort of starting point and guide (the spy in the PBTT book) for navigating things like the court. I had this NPC give them a list of the court members as well as their role and how many votes they have. The information they don't have is who voted for the taxes, and they're also missing 2 of the 17 votes from the court. In my mind this gives them a few easy things to look into: who voted for the taxes and who is this mystery court person.

Yesterday's session was the first day of the festival and they've already spoken to 6 of the court NPCs as well as a few others. I thought we'd get through 1 in-game day per session, but the players really took their time with various events and conversations. They barely made it to 3PM in game time. They're really making an effort to speak with NPCs and put themselves out there, and they're making great progress. They're even splitting the party willingly, something they're usually very frightened to do.

I've since turned this image into a Foundry scene that they can edit as they please, but it works out great. When they meet NPCs I display their character token as well, allowing them to quickly see who has been spoken to already.

Verisimilidude fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Feb 24, 2023

Everyone
Sep 6, 2019

by sebmojo

Verisimilidude posted:

A few sessions into Power Behind the Throne and my players are loving it so far. They got over the initial hump of the hook pretty quickly, and took right away to investigating the taxes.

I wanted to encourage them to take good notes, because I can't account for everything they've done over the course of a single session, and in PBTT there are lots of NPCs to speak to and information to mark, so I started giving them bonus XP at the end of every session for taking good notes. This is purely done via the honor system, but I have noticed a HUGE increase in how strong their notes are and how well they retain things like names and conversations.

They have a contact in the city acting as a sort of starting point and guide (the spy in the PBTT book) for navigating things like the court. I had this NPC give them a list of the court members as well as their role and how many votes they have. The information they don't have is who voted for the taxes, and they're also missing 2 of the 17 votes from the court. In my mind this gives them a few easy things to look into: who voted for the taxes and who is this mystery court person.

Yesterday's session was the first day of the festival and they've already spoken to 6 of the court NPCs as well as a few others. I thought we'd get through 1 in-game day per session, but the players really took their time with various events and conversations. They barely made it to 3PM in game time. They're really making an effort to speak with NPCs and put themselves out there, and they're making great progress. They're even splitting the party willingly, something they're usually very frightened to do.

I've since turned this image into a Foundry scene that they can edit as they please, but it works out great. When they meet NPCs I display their character token as well, allowing them to quickly see who has been spoken to already.



That is really cool. XP-wise are they start to focus more on their social stuff now as well?

Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges



Everyone posted:

That is really cool. XP-wise are they start to focus more on their social stuff now as well?

They've always been very social players, but now they're much better about remembering the conversations they have, as well as speaking more deliberately.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you
Glad they are having fun.

Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges



Everyone posted:

That is really cool. XP-wise are they start to focus more on their social stuff now as well?

I think I just now understood what you meant. They've definitely started investing more points into social skills where they can, but are limited in what options they have available due to their careers. The career makeup of the group is:

-pit fighter
-fire wizard
-celestial wizard
-apothecary
-envoy
-seaman

The envoy is doing most of the high-level talking, since he's the only gold status character and he has high social skills and the talent that lets him lie without being opposed. Everyone else is chatting people up, but sticking to their wheel house. The wizards are chatting with the npc wizards, the pit fighter is chatting with the warrior types and befriended the dwarf slayer NPC.

We used to have an elven entertainer in the group who died at the very end of the Death on the Reik campaign, who would've been perfect for many of the features of this campaign (many of the court NPCs favor speaking with elves, and the carnival has a lot of opportunities for musician PCs).

Also, it seems kind of obvious, but I highly recommend reading/listening to some of the Gotrek and Felix novels alongside your warhammer campaigns. The book Trollslayer especially feels almost like someone took a two-player campaign and converted it into a novel. It's a great way to get a feel for how NPCs in that world talk and act, especially since some of the NPCs in the big warhammer campaigns appear in the books themselves.

If you haven't used your Audible credits yet, they have Trollslayer there in Audiobook form and it was very useful to me. The narrator even does different voices for the characters, which I found very helpful as someone who tries to make the various NPCs sound different.

Verisimilidude fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Feb 27, 2023

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you
Lustria is out.
https://cubicle7games.com/blog/release-date-for-warhammer-fantasy-roleplay-lustria

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser

More content is always welcome, Lustria isn't high on my list of places I want to set a campaign though.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.
I still have not received my copy of the Magic book so I'm not gonna get another WFRP book until I get it.

Business Gorillas
Mar 11, 2009

:harambe:



Torquemada posted:

More content is always welcome, Lustria isn't high on my list of places I want to set a campaign though.

If you don't want to be a burgher that gets all their blood sucked out by a football-sized mosquito you can block me right now

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser
Ok, I've had enough of Ubersreik. The Blessings That Drew Blood is my party's last hurrah before starting The Enemy Within. Couple of things:

• What kind of player is best suited to being Kastor? I'm very tempted to make him the one quiet and nerdy guy rather than any of the other three members who're a bit more loud and roleplayer-y, to bring him out of his shell a bit.

• I've read over the opening, and see no compelling reason for using the opening sections of the campaign. I don't want them to go to Altdorf, because three of them are from there already. Are there going to be any problems with relocating the coach crash and the mutants and the dead Kastor to somewhere between Ubersreik and Bogenhafen? Do I absolutely need the bounty hunter?

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

Torquemada posted:

Ok, I've had enough of Ubersreik. The Blessings That Drew Blood is my party's last hurrah before starting The Enemy Within. Couple of things:

• What kind of player is best suited to being Kastor? I'm very tempted to make him the one quiet and nerdy guy rather than any of the other three members who're a bit more loud and roleplayer-y, to bring him out of his shell a bit.

• I've read over the opening, and see no compelling reason for using the opening sections of the campaign. I don't want them to go to Altdorf, because three of them are from there already. Are there going to be any problems with relocating the coach crash and the mutants and the dead Kastor to somewhere between Ubersreik and Bogenhafen? Do I absolutely need the bounty hunter?

I personally like the Bounty Hunter and the mistaken identity stuff, but you could always have some of the identity stuff be in Ubersriek rather than going all the way to Altdorf, don’t think it would cause issues.

Deptfordx
Dec 23, 2013

I've been treating the whole campaign as a skeleton around which to build. Chop it up as seems best to you plus whatever evolves naturally out of play.

Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges



Torquemada posted:

Ok, I've had enough of Ubersreik. The Blessings That Drew Blood is my party's last hurrah before starting The Enemy Within. Couple of things:

• What kind of player is best suited to being Kastor? I'm very tempted to make him the one quiet and nerdy guy rather than any of the other three members who're a bit more loud and roleplayer-y, to bring him out of his shell a bit.

• I've read over the opening, and see no compelling reason for using the opening sections of the campaign. I don't want them to go to Altdorf, because three of them are from there already. Are there going to be any problems with relocating the coach crash and the mutants and the dead Kastor to somewhere between Ubersreik and Bogenhafen? Do I absolutely need the bounty hunter?

In our group, “Kastor” is the social character, somewhat leader of the group.

As for the location, so long as your players go to Bogenhafen, it can be located anywhere. Going to Altdorf is just a formality.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser
A question about souls. As I currently understand it, human souls pass through Morr's gate after death, never to return? If you, uh, 'sell your soul' to Chaos in whatever form, does that just override the natural order of things and re-route your soul to the realm of chaos upon death or what?

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply