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You can take the communal pool from our cold wet hands!
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Sep 5, 2019 16:47
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Rent-A-Cop posted:But they are fun and I like them so gently caress everyone who isn't me, and also me who will probably die in my pool. Literally the gun nut position
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Sep 5, 2019 17:47
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VitalSigns posted:Literally the gun nut position So two wrongs make a right, or what's the idea? Obviously guns should be banned, I agree with that. But so should pools and everything else that kills people for no reason, and it's wierd to see people saying otherwise. It's like, "Oh so you support this bad thing, huh? Well, we'll support this other bad thing, so see how you like it!"
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Sep 5, 2019 18:00
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"But there are other dangerous things in society" is literally the most simplistic and obvious form of misdirection ever. At worst, it's just being used to change the conversation. At best, it's misguided people who can't quite connect the idea that yeah we have a lot of terrible poo poo in the world we need to deal with, but right now we're talking about guns, and if we have an opportunity to do anything about guns let's maybe do it and we'll address some of those other issues at the same time in these other political/social conversations we're having? Since folks love analogies so much, it's kinda like at a college, this here is the Guns 101 and we're here to talk about guns. That doesn't mean school has cancelled every other class, there's a room down the hall where they're doing Pool Dangers, and there's an interesting seminar over in the science building about Plastic Straws. There's all these classes in session happening and the whole school functions and you can take several classes if you want, we don't live in a situation where we can only address one issue at a time. This is the College of Solving All Our Problems and we offer several degree programs. That's how society actually works.
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Sep 5, 2019 18:27
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VitalSigns posted:Literally the gun nut position 
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Sep 5, 2019 19:02
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The real threat is of terrorists committing mass drownings tbh
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Sep 5, 2019 20:49
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Ok so if we ban pools do we also ban rivers, lakes and the sea? Dumbass kids drown in all of the above and they're not even fenced in.
suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Sep 6, 2019 |
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Sep 6, 2019 12:37
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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suck my woke dick posted:Ok so if we ban pools do we also back rivers, lakes and the sea?
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Sep 6, 2019 13:22
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Xerxes I was the first gun control advocate. An administration I can get behind (as long as their focus is on the front).
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Sep 6, 2019 13:54
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Double post
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Sep 6, 2019 13:54
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suck my woke dick posted:Ok so if we ban pools do we also ban rivers, lakes and the sea? Dumbass kids drown in all of the above and they're not even fenced in. Yes. If you ban guns you have to ban pools and lakes and rivers and pencils and beds, it's common sense. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Sep 6, 2019 |
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Sep 6, 2019 14:03
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Neither guns or pools need to be banned. Nor are they in most sane nations. They're just regulated. You can get a full on semi-automatic, 30 round magazine AR15 pattern rifles in most European countries, there's just licensing involved. It's notable to me that what gun control the US does have seems to go to full bans of certain (often irrelevant) features rather than a tiered licensing system based on actual mechanics.
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Sep 6, 2019 15:45
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AlexanderCA posted:Neither guns or pools need to be banned. Nor are they in most sane nations. They're just regulated. You can get a full on semi-automatic, 30 round magazine AR15 pattern rifles in most European countries, there's just licensing involved. It's notable to me that what gun control the US does have seems to go to full bans of certain (often irrelevant) features rather than a tiered licensing system based on actual mechanics.
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Sep 6, 2019 15:47
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Interesting but not terribly surprising finding https://twitter.com/DKThomp/status/1169949914811588608
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Sep 6, 2019 17:53
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mlmp08 posted:Interesting but not terribly surprising finding  Death is certain.
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Sep 6, 2019 18:45
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Guns are really fun to shoot at pop cans, a useful tool for farmers to destroy pests and euthanize sick animals. The vast majority of violent gun crime is committed by a small minority of owners, and most of them are committed with non legally owned firearms. I think Canada has a pretty good model for gun control , but more could be done to limit firearms to at risk individuals and more enforcement of bans post domestic violence. Even if you had perfect gun control tommorow (which ain't possible for dozens of years) america would still be one of the most violent developed countries because it's one of the poorest and most unequal When it comes specifically to the mass shooting craze of innocent people in public places, its sudden increase in the past 10-20 years is due to cultural/sociological/media influence and those problems are much harder to solve. A good first step would be towards the Canadian firearms system with mandatory 2 day safety class, background checks, mental health questionairre, etc. You will still have mass shootings though.
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Sep 6, 2019 18:49
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Zapples, the issue is that - as with that latest post - you seem to just use this thread to make posts that apparently agree with everyone else in terms of policy proposals, but are phrased or presented as though you've got a dissenting view somehow. It's that "but it won't fully solve the problem" thing, where... yeah, we all know and agree with that. Of course we can't 100% end gun violence in one generation, regardless of what we do, but that's not an argument. It's just pointing out a fact. Sure we have a "goal" of zero violent deaths... we have a goal of living in a just, fair, peaceful, nonviolent society. We all understand that nobody alive today could possibly actually see such a goal achieved, but understanding that, it's terribly wrong to just decide not to act, because incremental improvements are still valuable and worth fighting for. e. also, just re-quoting verbatim, content from posts you made in this thread a year ago, is pretty annoying and lazy. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Sep 6, 2019 |
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Sep 6, 2019 18:57
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zapplez posted:Guns are really fun to shoot at pop cans, a useful tool for farmers to destroy pests and euthanize sick animals. The vast majority of violent gun crime is committed by a small minority of owners, and most of them are committed with non legally owned firearms. Are you gonna respond to be a clearly disingenuous idiot or just shine that on?
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Sep 6, 2019 18:58
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Leperflesh posted:e. also, just re-quoting verbatim, content from posts you made in this thread a year ago, is pretty annoying and lazy. America.txt
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Sep 6, 2019 19:06
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Leperflesh posted:Zapples, the issue is that - as with that latest post - you seem to just use this thread to make posts that apparently agree with everyone else in terms of policy proposals, but are phrased or presented as though you've got a dissenting view somehow. It's that "but it won't fully solve the problem" thing, where... yeah, we all know and agree with that. Of course we can't 100% end gun violence in one generation, regardless of what we do, but that's not an argument. It's just pointing out a fact. Sure we have a "goal" of zero violent deaths... we have a goal of living in a just, fair, peaceful, nonviolent society. We all understand that nobody alive today could possibly actually see such a goal achieved, but understanding that, it's terribly wrong to just decide not to act, because incremental improvements are still valuable and worth fighting for. I was trying to make a point, we actually do agree on most things, but from the extremists that just blurt out " BAN EVERYTHING TOTAL DISARMAMENT" is loving stupid (and would never pass in law anyways) and actually sets back the shared goals we all have of making society safer. Also the whole "guns should be banned because its just a dumb hobby" is a really disingenuous argument as well because we as a society accept risks like that all the time. I'd actually like to discuss exactly what type of gun control legislation would be possible and what people think is the right type. As each month goes by, it feels like more and more mass shootings are happening. They are increasing at a rate that has no correlation to overall decreasing access to firearms. That is really concerning because obviously its not going to get better anytime soon unless we start thinking outside of the box on why people are acting out this way. vincentpricesboner fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Sep 6, 2019 |
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Sep 6, 2019 20:00
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zapplez posted:I was trying to make a point, we actually do agree on most things, but from the extremists that just blurt out " BAN EVERYTHING TOTAL DISARMAMENT" is loving stupid (and would never pass in law anyways) and actually sets back the shared goals we all have of making society safer. Also the whole "guns should be banned because its just a dumb hobby" is a really disingenuous argument as well because we as a society accept risks like that all the time. Mass shootings happen because of easy access to guns that let you kill mass amounts of people in literally less than a minute This is something completely unique to guns and would not happen nearly as often without said easy access Somehow, all the other countries in the world that actually regulate and control firearms don't have mass shootings every single day of the loving year
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Sep 6, 2019 21:00
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zapplez posted:Guns are really fun You could have saved some time typing and just posted this e: zapplez posted:we as a society accept risks like that all the time. gently caress off with this. There is no other similar risk and you can tell because we arent talking people committing mass murder with a pool or a fifth of whiskey. Plot twist: The disingenuousness is coming from inside your own post!! Unoriginal Name fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Sep 6, 2019 |
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Sep 6, 2019 21:02
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Booourns posted:Mass shootings happen because of easy access to guns Also are primarily a white people problem.
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Sep 6, 2019 21:07
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Reducing inequality in America wouldn't completely solve the problem, and therefore it isn't worth talking about
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Sep 6, 2019 21:30
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VitalSigns posted:Reducing inequality in America wouldn't completely solve the problem, and therefore it isn't worth talking about Inequality is the exact reason the USA is as hosed as it is. Its got like 5% more households with guns than Canada but 500% higher homicide rate. Guns are more a symptom than the cause, especially when it comes that the majority of crimes are associated to poverty and the drug war,etc etc Inequality literally makes people want to buy a gun. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/08/income-inequality-murder-homicide-rates vincentpricesboner fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Sep 6, 2019 |
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Sep 6, 2019 21:56
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zapplez posted:Inequality is the exact reason the USA is as hosed as it is. Its got like 5% more households with guns than Canada but 500% higher homicide rate. Guns are more a symptom than the cause, especially when it comes that the majority of crimes are associated to poverty and the drug war,etc etc Ah guess all the other countries with literally 0 mass shootings are perfectly equal
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Sep 6, 2019 22:31
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zapplez posted:Inequality is the exact reason the USA is as hosed as it is. Its got like 5% more households with guns than Canada but 500% higher homicide rate. Guns are more a symptom than the cause, especially when it comes that the majority of crimes are associated to poverty and the drug war,etc etc Ya but there's no silver bullet to completely solve it so what're ya gunna do? We accept risks all the time in society and if we can't eliminate the risk then oh well time to throw our hands up
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Sep 6, 2019 23:56
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zapplez posted:I looked through your post history and I cant find any details and what you think a good gun control system would be zapplez posted:The vast majority of violent gun crime is committed by a small minority of owners, and most of them are committed with non legally owned firearms. we real anti-straw purchase laws and enforcement TenementFunster fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Sep 7, 2019 |
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Sep 7, 2019 00:05
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Raldikuk posted:Ya but there's no silver bullet to completely solve it so what're ya gunna do? We accept risks all the time in society and if we can't eliminate the risk then oh well time to throw our hands up That not what I have been saying at all. I'm for very strong gun control. Disarmament is a loving joke though. TenementFunster posted:add anything semiautomatic to the NFA, mandatory safe storage, actual training for carry permits, universal background checks, nationwide ERPOs 
vincentpricesboner fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Sep 7, 2019 |
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Sep 7, 2019 01:16
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I am very anti-gun. The following 17 point plan will reduce gun violence. Point 1: Regarding pool usage,
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Sep 7, 2019 01:19
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zapplez posted:That not what I have been saying at all. I'm for very strong gun control. Disarmament is a loving joke though.
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Sep 7, 2019 02:00
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TenementFunster posted:drat, where did that 79% of people get a gun? Dan Crenshaw 
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Sep 7, 2019 02:43
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zapplez posted:Inequality is the exact reason the USA is as hosed as it is. Its got like 5% more households with guns than Canada but 500% higher homicide rate. Guns are more a symptom than the cause, especially when it comes that the majority of crimes are associated to poverty and the drug war,etc etc But solving inequality wouldn't completely solve the problem so it isn't worth doing. The Las Vegas shooter was rich, it wouldn't have stopped him so it's pointless VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Sep 7, 2019 |
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Sep 7, 2019 05:28
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zapplez posted:Inequality is the exact reason the USA is as hosed as it is. Its got like 5% more households with guns than Canada but 500% higher homicide rate. Guns are more a symptom than the cause, especially when it comes that the majority of crimes are associated to poverty and the drug war,etc etc Canada also has more gun regulation than the US.
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Sep 7, 2019 09:22
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suck my woke dick posted:Ok so if we ban pools do we also ban rivers, lakes and the sea? Dumbass kids drown in all of the above and they're not even fenced in. Ok, give one good reason why not? Obviously one can't ' ban' the sea, but all of these things could and should be strictly off limits for any purposes that are not vitally necessary. Gathering drinking water, some forms of commercial uses etc, all of which would ideally be heavily regulated and performed by the state. You're sarcastically saying that dumbass kids are drowning but uh, they are drowning. That should supercede the right of fat tourists to roast themselves on the beach.
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Sep 7, 2019 10:51
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Crimpolioni posted:Ok, give one good reason why not? Obviously one can't ' ban' the sea, but all of these things could and should be strictly off limits for any purposes that are not vitally necessary. Gathering drinking water, some forms of commercial uses etc, all of which would ideally be heavily regulated and performed by the state. You're sarcastically saying that dumbass kids are drowning but uh, they are drowning. That should supercede the right of fat tourists to roast themselves on the beach. Actually, no. These things are typical features of a healthy landscape. Recreational benefits are still real benefits to the population, which can (and arguably do) outweigh the cost of a relatively minor increase in death rate. Your response boils down to "nobody should ever be allowed to do anything even slightly dangerous", i.e. put people in armoured pods so they can't break their neck falling down stairs. e: should kids be allowed to encounter trees that aren't fenced in? suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 11:11 on Sep 7, 2019 |
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Sep 7, 2019 11:07
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The need for mental stimulation and recreation should of course be taken into account, yes, but it needs to come after a cost/benefit calulation to whether the cost is actually worth it. You say things like could, and arguably, which is laughable when we're talking about human lives. Even if acess to dangerous bodies of water do turn out to be so beneficial for the human mind, it might well be able to to be replaced with a safer form of stimulation, like painting walls in brighter colours, and having more windows. In either case the actual facts would have to decide. As for trees, ask yourself. How many kids maimed or dead from falls do you think is an acceptable price to pay? (The answer is zero, but go ahead)
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Sep 7, 2019 11:18
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In case you didn't get the point, I explicitly do support the argument that the broad societal benefit of largely unrestricted access to the outside environment in terms of recreational benefits, health benefits (on average), and environmental benefits (via increased appreciation of the environment's existence) is worth a nonzero number of dead kids, and an additional number of dead stupid and/or unlucky adults. As far as I can tell, the ratio of societal benefit to additional deaths is much lower for GUN, making additional restrictions on access to GUN a sensible policy. Hypothetically, if Americans managed to handle GUN more responsibly or derived much higher societal benefits from widespread ownership of GUN, then they should continue to be able to buy GUN in Wal-Marts, but Americans have failed to do so and in the current situation should have less GUN. suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 11:24 on Sep 7, 2019 |
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Sep 7, 2019 11:22
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as with every gun rights talking point the "they didn't own the gun legally" is bullshit. the gun was legally owned at some point. "it was lost or stolen" isn't a defense of gun ownership when people lose or have stolen a quarter million guns per year.
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Sep 7, 2019 12:16
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suck my woke dick posted:In case you didn't get the point, I explicitly do support the argument that the broad societal benefit of largely unrestricted access to the outside environment in terms of recreational benefits, health benefits (on average), and environmental benefits (via increased appreciation of the environment's existence) is worth a nonzero number of dead kids, and an additional number of dead stupid and/or unlucky adults. Non-jokingly. If there is an easy way to regulate a common item that we know will save thousands of lives, does that mean we should automatically do it? I propose we put speed governors and breathalyzers installed in every new car starting in 2020. This is no way impacts the common use of the vehicles, going to an from places, but it would significantly curb street racing and drunk driving. Yes, it will cost 4 grand a car to have a device to prevent them from going faster than 75 mph, and to require them to take an alcohol breath test before starting the car, but we know for a fact it will save a ton of lives. Yes, the majority of cars on the road will be "dumb cars" for 15 years, but in our lifetimes we will see cars that are inherently much safer. This, coupled with auto-braking technology already emerging on cars will make them much safer in the coming years. Can you honestly give me a reason new cars shouldn't be sold with a breathalyzer and speed governors built in? Alhazred posted:Canada also has more gun regulation than the US. Is there a single poster active in this thread that is NOT proposing atleast Canada style gun control? We all agree that it would be a good start vincentpricesboner fucked around with this message at 13:10 on Sep 7, 2019 |
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Sep 7, 2019 13:02
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