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NIMBY?
NIMBY
YIMBY
I can't afford my medicine.
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OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009

Solemn Sloth posted:

Melbourne is cursed by a lack of constraining geography. There’s some mountainous bits to the east but other than that there’s very little to act as a forced barrier on sprawl. The growth areas are seriously horrendous in terms of the quality of communities being put up. Under serviced by community infrastructure, non-existent public transport, and massive houses on medium sized lots so you get serious urban heat island and stormwater management problems.

The sprawl is I’m sure similar to many US cities. We have instituted an urban growth boundary through the planning system, but in the first few years of operation it had numerous expansions, and now everyone in the development industry believes they just have to bribe hard enough to get their tract included and turn a farm purchase into a $30M residential estate. This has the follow on effect of inflating land values around the boundary due to speculation, meaning farmers face skyrocketing land taxes without their income going up and having to abandon the most fertile land (of the stuff we haven’t paved over yet)



So is the sprawl still a part of Melbourne proper? One of the problems in US is that sprawl is often totally separate municipalities.

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OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009

vyelkin posted:

Here's a news story that's insanely relevant to this thread about abolishing the suburbs:

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/aug/22/addicts-crooks-thieves-the-campaign-to-kill-baltimores-light-rail

The short version is that white people living in the suburbs of Baltimore are aggressively campaigning to have less public transit serve their area because they're convinced that black criminals are coming from downtown Baltimore on light rail to commit crimes in their pristine suburb. They believe this despite all the data showing that crime is decreasing and most crimes there are committed by people who also live in the suburb, because they have collected anecdotal evidence over social media.



IIRC the same sort of thing happened... maybe.. 40 or so...? years ago to block the extension of Boston-area subway's Red Line to the town of Arlington.

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009
Fifty billion Australian (Google says it's about 36.5 American) doesn't seem quite so bad if you consider this:


(http://greenlineextension.eot.state.ma.us/documents/about/ProposedMap/projectMap.pdf)
worth of light rail is estimated at 2.3 billion USD after all the facilities got cut down to the bare minimum...

OddObserver fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Aug 29, 2018

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009

luxury handset posted:

i was just using that as a theoretical example of how planners can extract affordable housing from developers using the tools they have available

if you're a local planning agency, you can't force anyone to do anything. the basic paradigm is to assign all land in your jurisdiction some kind of zone, which has attached to it a list of permissible uses, densities, etc. what is actually built there is up to the private market, working within the broad regulations set by the zoning maps and ordinances

if the largest structure which can be built on a plot of land is four story low rise housing, but the developer really, really wants to put five stories of condos and a couple retail units there, great! we will grant you a waiver for that and let you color outside of the lines, but in return we want you to set aside X housing units at Y discount for people making Z or less income. the developer makes more money, some workforce housing is created, everyone is happy

but, if the land is zoned high rise and the developer is only building ultra-luxe apartments at maybe 60% of the theoretical maximum of what can be built, the planner says "um, excuse me, can you perhaps put in some affor-" and the developer laughs and closes the door. we don't need your waiver, pal, take a walk

now there's ways to give planners some teeth. if they're backed up by some regional or metropolitan planning agency which can asses projects of regional impact and revoke permits if they want to, then they have a lot more muscle to wrangle developers with. or maybe there's some kind of overlay district meant to mitigate runaway housing price inflation that can just squash proposed developments. typically this is not the case

Wouldn't it also be reasonable to zone things as "High-Density Residential requiring 25% affordable" to start with?

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009
Growing up in Ukraine, we would generally have a big courtyard inside each building number (or sometimes block) and all the kids for all the apartments around it would play there, usually with each other. The buildings fit more people than what I generally see here in Boston area (apartments vs. multifamily homes), but they weren't packed anywhere near that tight.

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009

SpaceCadetBob posted:



We complained about to subpar construction to the project manager and so did the electricians, but no one has seen a carpenter in weeks and now that we’ve moved out of the attic I’m sure it will be forgotten.


Shouldn't the municipality care? They are the ones setting the building code, aren't they?

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009
Cambridge is one of many Boston-area communities whose zoning code is apparently based on how things look like in a Wisconsin suburb rather than a New England urban area. Step one of "preserving community character" might be to make the code permit what's already typical.

e.g.:
https://mobile.twitter.com/ahoreality/status/1158090223697317890

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009

Red Bones posted:

I am not American, are the houses on either side of the blue building owned by single families, or are they apartment buildings/old mansions subdivided into multiple apartments?

They're multi-family and were always built as such. Most likely 6 families for each, each getting half of a floor.

Context:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-decker_(house)
(Which the original of this photoshopped photo was taken from).

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009

Insanite posted:

Short and sweet.

Exasperated commiseration from Boston. :hmmyes:

At least MBTA's near-collapse one winter saved us from the Olympics.

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009

Solkanar512 posted:

Is there some term or way we can differentiate between the sort of lovely zoning the prevents density and reasonable mixed use stuff from the sort of zoning laws that prevent people from putting a chemical plant in a residential area? Houston is like this and it's a poo poo show when plants explode.

So what bothers me about some zoning around here in Boston is that it (soft) bans things that everyone is supposedly in favor of, things like triple-deckers.
The point of regulation, IMHO, is to ban things that are harmful, whether it's a chemical plant right next to a kindergarden --- or that chemical plant dumping whatever it wants in the nearby river.

Instead, those rules basically say that the expectation of the law is that you build something that would fit in a semi-rular suburb despite it being an urban area, so someone building something reasonable (like a 6-family home) has to go through committees (which is a vector for corruption) of tough negotiations, hordes of complaining affluent boomers that have too much free time (people working two jobs to feed their families don't have time for things like that!).

Or you could build a McMansion that fits the rules and deal with way less hassle. Oh, and of course also lots and lots of parking spots, since that's what suburban life calls for, even if you're well in range of transit.

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009
I imagine the elderly have less effect on traffic than other people, too. Given that most are going to not be commuting to a job during the rush hour.

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009
Can we all agree that the way schools are funded in the US is awful?

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009

Cicero posted:

I mean, it seems pretty obvious to me that the time value of money plays a part here. If you can knock out a big SFH (or pile of them) in < 6 months, versus a big apartment complex taking over a year (or even multiple years), the nominal profit margin on the latter has to be higher for it to actually be 'equally profitable'.

In the extreme case, if knocking out a new building in SF takes four or five years because of their process, then yes, on paper is has to be crazy profitable otherwise you could've literally just dumped that money into a index fund and sat on it and come out better.

It's not simply time, either. Like during the time you may see a bunch of boards, neighborhood associations, city council, etc. demand a bunch of changes, which probably means paying architects money. Then someone may file a lawsuit, and, well, if you want affordable housing lawyer trial costs are probably not what you want to be part of the equation. Then the end result may end up scaled down a bunch so the revenue is down and expenses are up? Putting up some exurban McMansions is gonna be way less risky.

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009
Note that you can find photos of what US cities looked like before the car/suburb era, and they are often much livelier. Also there are often a bunch of nice buildings that in modern time got demolished for parking lots or garages. I think I once stumbled on a twitter account doing comparison shots like that, but I don't have it handy.
Here is a bit in he other direction, though:
https://twitter.com/ProvPlanning/status/1482330242945585158

Like that's way more walkable without the highway bridge.

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009

SpaceCadetBob posted:


Im working pre-construction on a project to convert a large 80s office building into 400 apts and while it has some complications it will certainly be doable.

The office buildings I have recently worked in probably can't be converted into legal apartments simply based on their footprint ---- they have a lot of interior space, and apartment rooms are supposed to have windows.

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009
There is some historical irony about a guy from Arlington being in the "pro housing in MBTA communities" side since IIRC Arlington has MBTA commuter rail but not subway because racism.

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009
The one in that NYT article looks like the world's saddest courtyard. And I can't imagine that even a bigger ones would work very well on any highrise...

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009

Nitrousoxide posted:

I mean, I grew up in the Midwest, so maybe I'm more resistant. But I don't mind the cold at all.

Look, people throw hissyfits about stuff being cold in mild places like upstate NY and even barely-has-winter places like Boston, and Minnesota is actually cold.

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009
Also, well, if someone helped them pay for a move (which are expensive!) maybe some would gladly move to West Plattsburgh --- if there are jobs there.

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009
Requiring EV charging stations as an overall rule is probably a win overall. Going through a 12-month process of arguing over it for every single place, however ...

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009

Mustang posted:

I agree, but looking at the rate Seattle's light rail is being built, l just don't see that happening.

Would love for a national politician to push for something like the scale of building out the interstate highway system, but for public transportation.

That we're really bad at public infrastructure construction in US, in terms of both cost and time is another huge problem...

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009

mobby_6kl posted:

Are people going to give up their lawns and McMansiosn to live closer to civilization though? These are mutually incompatible and while everyone hates driving (for commuting), I kind of doubt many would make that trade voluntarily.

I think you are right that there are lots of people who don't want the trade, but there are also people who want to live in cities which are currently not being accommodated.

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009

Combed Thunderclap posted:

Gee, why oh why is there a cost of living crisis in America?

https://m.startribune.com/minneapolis-cannot-proceed-with-2040-plan-court-rules/600302266/?clmob=y&c=n&clmob=y&c=n

Won’t someone think of the single family homes :cry: with all these apartment buildings everywhere how will communities of color ever be able to buy a home???

We must protect the environment by making everyone have a 1-hour car commute!

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OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009
Just be ready for when people act like a bike lane killed their firstborn.

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