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Cockmaster posted:The thing there is that Elon Musk's grand vision is for there to be no excuse for anyone anywhere to stick with fossil fuels. Short-range commuter cars don't really fit into that very well. Short range commuter cars exist today as ICE cars. The range isn't truly limited on something like a ForTwo or a Mirage, but they aren't designed to be used for long haul driving. My ~ideal electric daily drive future~ for my wife and I is probably one longer range bigger EV (something like the future Model Y) and something like a purpose-buitl Fiat 500e with roughly 60 miles range. The reason to get one short range car is because it's cheap. A shorter range commuter EV will always be less expensive than a longer range EV.
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Aug 21, 2018 13:32
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If unrestricted by parking space, per-year usage taxes and insurance, I would totally rock a long distance barge for hauling many people long distances and an appliance that could haul me and my laptop to and from work in relative comfort. Two-seater, AC, 100km range, all fine by me.
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Aug 21, 2018 13:57
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Cockmaster posted:The thing there is that Elon Musk's grand vision is for there to be no excuse for anyone anywhere to stick with fossil fuels. Short-range commuter cars don't really fit into that very well. The "have a short-ranged car for commuting, rent a long-range one for longer trips" model still makes sense even if both vehicles are electric. Going from a 30-mile range to a 150-mile range on an electric car costs an awful lot (at the moment, anyway) and if you don't need that range regularly then that's just wasted money.
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Aug 21, 2018 15:47
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Golf-sized cars will have 60 kWh batteries and cost Golf-amounts of money quite soon, the Hyundai Kona is basically there already. Smaller/cheaper than that is perhaps what you'd properly call a city car, but then you are basically competing with not owning a car at all, which is also a sensible scenario.
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Aug 21, 2018 16:24
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Slightly cheesy ad  but good idea. Tesla has also mentioned expanding on this.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66D6spRemGk Basically, being able to get useful amounts of electricity from the battery. Great for camping and artisanal cheese markets. fe: is actually a cheese?
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Aug 21, 2018 16:40
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Ola posted:Slightly cheesy ad The Workhorse PHEV truck has an outlet on the side, covered by a panel kind of like the gas fueling port. The truck's target market is contractors, so basically it replaces the generator they might otherwise have to haul to the work site. I don't know how much utility it'd give to most people though. How often do you want to run electric devices somewhere where you're taking your car, but you're not in your car, and there's no other outlets nearby? I'm sure it's amazing for a small subset of people, but how large is that subset?
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Aug 21, 2018 16:50
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:The Workhorse PHEV truck has an outlet on the side, covered by a panel kind of like the gas fueling port. The truck's target market is contractors, so basically it replaces the generator they might otherwise have to haul to the work site. Tailgating
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Aug 21, 2018 16:58
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Sounds pretty awesome to me. I'd use it camping for sure. Also, would be nice to have a tire pump that you could just plug into your car to put air in your tires.
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Aug 21, 2018 17:04
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:The Workhorse PHEV truck has an outlet on the side, covered by a panel kind of like the gas fueling port. The truck's target market is contractors, so basically it replaces the generator they might otherwise have to haul to the work site. First thing I can think of is a cooler box on road trips. So not external to the car, but sucking power all the time anyway. Also, you often get demand after the supply. You could run a more powerful compressor while working on your car, or a pressure washer maybe. Not a massive market, you're probably right there, but quite useful nonetheless and something else that sets it apart from ICE cars.
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Aug 21, 2018 17:05
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Honestly just being able to more conveniently plug in the vacuum when I'm cleaning it would be nice. It feels silly to run a cord from the house in order to vacuum the top of something holding a literal tonne of batteries. Alternatively, an 80A vacuum connected to the HPWC. 
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Aug 21, 2018 17:05
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Pretty sure there's a minivan out there that has a built-in vacuum attachment point. I remember some concept vehicle from the 90s had, like, a built in dustbuster.TooMuchAbstraction posted:Going from a 30-mile range to a 150-mile range on an electric car costs an awful lot (at the moment, anyway) and if you don't need that range regularly then that's just wasted money. Going from ~70 miles to ~45 is plenty concerning if your commute is usually a 30+ minute jump on a highway/across town. Factor in something like "work commute is 5 miles, but kid's weekend soccer club is an hour away" or having to cross town for work+errands while dealing with hills and the extra range helps. FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Aug 21, 2018 |
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Aug 21, 2018 17:41
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Cute ideas, but no Ford engineer or Toyota marketing dude is going to tell their wives that they can't take the kids to the beach this weekend because they didn't reserve an extended range rental before 5:00 on Thursday.
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Aug 21, 2018 20:52
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OldPueblo posted:In the middle is where you don't get either and are sad. And yet CUVs are the hottest car on the market  People always want the Thing In The Middle even though it sucks at everything.
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Aug 21, 2018 20:54
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FilthyImp posted:Pretty sure there's a minivan out there that has a built-in vacuum attachment point. I remember some concept vehicle from the 90s had, like, a built in dustbuster. HondaVac in the Odyssey.  https://youtu.be/i35Uwct9Tkw
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Aug 21, 2018 21:01
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most people don't care about fun and can only afford one car, therefore compromises are popular
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Aug 21, 2018 21:02
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:And yet CUVs are the hottest car on the market I remember back when politics was centrist and boring and cars were radical and polarizing!  
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Aug 21, 2018 21:05
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How long am I going to have to wait for what is essentially a WRX hatchback EV? That's all I really need to know.
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Aug 21, 2018 21:07
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The Mercedes EQA hatch is going to be awd and around 270 hp in late 2019. I'm sure that's where the WRX similarities end though. Not sure if its going to be sold in the US either. Edit: Have a photo 
Humbug fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Aug 21, 2018 |
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Aug 21, 2018 23:33
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That looks pretty sweet, but now you've just made me sad.
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Aug 21, 2018 23:49
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I don't think anything is confirmed yet. Considering Mercedes aren't selling the normal petrol a class hatch in the US citing lack of interest, I wouldn't be too hopeful. It will probably have a well north of $50k msrp too.
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Aug 22, 2018 00:04
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They don’t even make the WRX in a hatch anymore. That form factor is woefully underutilized in the US. I’d also love an EV hot hatch, maybe down the line VW will make a GTI version of the egolf.
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Aug 22, 2018 06:05
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bawfuls posted:They don’t even make the WRX in a hatch anymore. That form factor is woefully underutilized in the US. I’d also love an EV hot hatch, maybe down the line VW will make a GTI version of the egolf. The GTE name wasted on a plug-in hybrid is a crime.
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Aug 22, 2018 09:01
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bawfuls posted:They don’t even make the WRX in a hatch anymore. That form factor is woefully underutilized in the US. I’d also love an EV hot hatch, maybe down the line VW will make a GTI version of the egolf. there are more hatches for sale in the US than ever before even ignoring the fact that all CUVs are basically lifted hatchbacks or wagons
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Aug 22, 2018 15:16
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I love my hatchback EV Model S.
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Aug 22, 2018 15:21
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El Grillo posted:I dunno, my impression is that most people think Tesla's are awesome cars, although there have been some issues with QA especially with the older models and early release model 3's, but those seem largely resolved now? They also don't stack up to similarly priced vehicles in terms of quality of the interior furnishings etc. 14% first pass yield is a bit worse than "some issues with QA". Are they building cars or are they building T-34s? https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-hit-model-3-target-by-reworking-thousands-of-cars-2018-8 For context, a 80% first pass yield is considered good in the auto industry. Gamesguy fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Aug 22, 2018 |
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Aug 22, 2018 23:55
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Gamesguy posted:
Does that refer to a brand new line, or like... the expectation for a 2019 Ford Focus is an 80% first pass yield? (not making any excuses for anyone or anything... just asking if we're comparing apples to Brand New Battery Powered Oranges here)
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Aug 23, 2018 00:01
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Does that refer to a brand new line, or like... the expectation for a 2019 Ford Focus is an 80% first pass yield? 80% is actually pretty low ball. From what I've been able to find most automakers range between 92 and 98%, with a couple of outliers in the 80% range.
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Aug 23, 2018 00:14
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Gamesguy posted:14% first pass yield is a bit worse than "some issues with QA". Are they building cars or are they building T-34s? That's where not having a dealer network bites them in the rear end. A *lot* of predelivery is about fixing production errors that don't get spotted at the factory. Or fixing errors the factory only becomes aware of after cars are on the way. But hey not like other car makers can right royally gently caress up....... https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/subaru-ascent-recall-missing-welds/ GoGoGadgetChris posted:Does that refer to a brand new line, or like... the expectation for a 2019 Ford Focus is an 80% first pass yield? 14% is a low success rate for a first year line. The problem being Tesla thought they didn't really need (afford?) to do the pre-production runs car companies normally do to bring the yield rate up *before* the cars go to market.
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Aug 23, 2018 00:23
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Gamesguy posted:14% first pass yield is a bit worse than "some issues with QA". Are they building cars or are they building T-34s? Certainly pretty poo poo though, here's hoping things have been improving a lot in the past couple of months..
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Aug 23, 2018 02:39
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El Grillo posted:That's certainly interesting but is a production issue, not an issue with the quality of the end products actually delivered to customers - unless I'm totally misunderstanding something? What really matters though is that a 14% FPY is just killing them on both production cost and rate, both of which Tesla has to improve asap in order to turn a profit.
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Aug 23, 2018 02:47
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El Grillo posted:That's certainly interesting but is a production issue, not an issue with the quality of the end products actually delivered to customers - unless I'm totally misunderstanding something? Like so: https://twitter.com/DietWrite/status/1029838596159619072/photo/1
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Aug 23, 2018 06:27
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Because 2018 wasn't loving weird enough, Kalashnikov has an EV prototype. https://www.yahoo.com/news/move-over-musk-kalashnikov-unveils-electric-supercar-162854131.html Yes, that Kalashnikov. 
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Aug 23, 2018 17:39
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I'm in love 
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Aug 23, 2018 17:47
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Yeah that looks cool as hell
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Aug 23, 2018 19:00
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Tangentally related to "Our Unlock Car Door server is DDoS'd, so please call an Uber if you can't get in your car" VW Developing OS for Cars The automaker has committed €3.5 billion ($4.05 billion) through 2025 for a connected car push that not only moves the company toward a new role as a "mobility services provider," but will include the development of an in-house operating system, vw.OS, that will govern entire vehicles. Though that concept vehicle really looks like a sporty futurized B<W i3
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Aug 23, 2018 19:11
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MrYenko posted:Because 2018 wasn't loving weird enough, Kalashnikov has an EV prototype. Aerodynamics? nah, more power.
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Aug 23, 2018 19:13
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MrYenko posted:Because 2018 wasn't loving weird enough, Kalashnikov has an EV prototype. Hope it has the same build quality as their other products.
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Aug 23, 2018 19:56
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It only comes in a manual but can easily be converted to automatic
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Aug 23, 2018 20:05
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Unlike the Model 3, the Kalashnikov drives in the rain.
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Aug 24, 2018 00:30
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Oh hey, Tesla's factory in Fremont caught fire and exploded. https://twitter.com/authorgutierrez/status/1032791896593035264
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Aug 24, 2018 02:10
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