The EV Thread - I opted for the performance GPU package

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > The EV Thread - I opted for the performance GPU package

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Ola: Jul 19, 2004

Beffer posted:

Tesla has until the end of the year to pump out as many model 3s as possible before the tax credit starts reducing. Presumably they�ll focus on the US market to maximize the tax breaks for customers until the new year.

Yep. And I believe 2019 deliveries have been the word on the street for quite a while. Tesla just posted a thing about tax credits as well: https://www.tesla.com/no_NO/blog/what-you-need-know-about-federal-ev-tax-credit-phase-out

# ¿ Aug 10, 2018 23:15

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# ¿ May 23, 2024 20:13

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

OldPueblo posted:

What is a recommended alternate to this purchase for my wife or I to tootle around town,

A Nissan Leaf. More space, slightly longer range, uses CHAdeMO fast charging. That may be the Betamax of DC charging some time in the future, but if you do most of the charging at home it's not an issue in the car's lifetime anyway. You should be able to find one for less than $11k, if you want to spend a bit more you can get a 2016 with the 30 kWh battery upgrade. I don't know to properly shop for those, but since they've sold quite well, google results will be plentiful. "Remaining bars" on the battery indicator is a useful wear gauge.

# ¿ Aug 13, 2018 22:31

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

The batteries do degrade from just sitting there, but not so much that it's a problem over a few years of normal use. Particularly if the Spark has active cooling and a low-ish charge limit on the battery. I didn't know that as it isn't sold over here in Euroland. Based on those alone, I'd say if the car fits your use, go for it over a 2013 Leaf. The Leaf has no active cooling and some of the early models have some really bad degradation by now. The Leaf has that battery capacity indicator which loses bars over time, don't think anyone else has it. But on all EVs, you can just charge to 100% and see what the remaining range counter says and compare that with others online. It's not a perfectly accurate diagnostic, but it gets you a pretty good ballpark condition. (The number might vary based on various modes and settings)

# ¿ Aug 13, 2018 23:20

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

lostleaf posted:

I'm looking into idea of an used small cheap EV. Does anyone have experience with the Fiat 500e? They're even cheaper than spark and leaf here in Norcal.

Here's a vlogger review, if you hadn't come across it already. The use case would require owning a parking spot with charging and not having any road trip plans, but other than that it looks fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHcWTDtA5iA

# ¿ Aug 18, 2018 07:41

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

It's a bit confusing that it uses the same symbol as Coulomb. Not sure what it's short for, but I think of it as Capacity. If you charge twice the battery's capacity in one hour, it's 2C. (But Ulf is very right about charging rates)

# ¿ Aug 20, 2018 08:42

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

Golf-sized cars will have 60 kWh batteries and cost Golf-amounts of money quite soon, the Hyundai Kona is basically there already. Smaller/cheaper than that is perhaps what you'd properly call a city car, but then you are basically competing with not owning a car at all, which is also a sensible scenario.

# ¿ Aug 21, 2018 16:24

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

Slightly cheesy ad :smug:

but good idea. Tesla has also mentioned expanding on this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66D6spRemGk

Basically, being able to get useful amounts of electricity from the battery. Great for camping and artisanal cheese markets.

fe: is :smug:

actually a cheese?

# ¿ Aug 21, 2018 16:40

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

The Workhorse PHEV truck has an outlet on the side, covered by a panel kind of like the gas fueling port. The truck's target market is contractors, so basically it replaces the generator they might otherwise have to haul to the work site.

I don't know how much utility it'd give to most people though. How often do you want to run electric devices somewhere where you're taking your car, but you're not in your car, and there's no other outlets nearby? I'm sure it's amazing for a small subset of people, but how large is that subset?

First thing I can think of is a cooler box on road trips. So not external to the car, but sucking power all the time anyway. Also, you often get demand after the supply. You could run a more powerful compressor while working on your car, or a pressure washer maybe. Not a massive market, you're probably right there, but quite useful nonetheless and something else that sets it apart from ICE cars.

# ¿ Aug 21, 2018 17:05

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

Ergos look a bit cramped and it doesn't seem quite touring friendly, but otherwise I'd say that looks pretty good.

# ¿ Aug 31, 2018 18:21

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

Kia Niro interior tour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us5fV1Oa2vo

Same as Kona more or less, slightly different interior layout and more rear legroom. Assuming it gets the adaptive cc lane keepy stuff as well. Comes in 64 and 39 kWh.

# ¿ Sep 5, 2018 22:37

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

22 Eargesplitten posted:

It should be pointed out that Tesla will cut you off from their superchargers after you use them too many times.

Name an example please. They have some terms and conditions about abuse, taxis etc, but no hard limit. Vlogger Bjørn Nyland has done something like 350 000 km across two cars, most of it on superchargers.

# ¿ Sep 5, 2018 23:25

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

22 Eargesplitten posted:

The YOSPOS Tesla mockthread has a former Tesla employee tell-all, pretty horrifying.

Total bullshit, got it.

A thing that got some negative reactions is that the 90-pack gets throttled to 95 kW or thereabouts after a certain amount of supercharging. The 85 doesn't, not sure about the 100.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2018 05:52

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

MrOnBicycle posted:

Range anxiety is only one part of the problems EVs have to overcome. Infrastructure and cost are bigger problems. Especially in cities (where and EV makes the most sense but is the hardest to make work as a daily). It might be different in the US, but if I'd buy an EV in my country I'd be left with a car that has the interior quality/sound proofing that equivalent to a economy car. Except I'm paying 4x the money for the pleasure of driving an EV. I won't ever see any savings on fuel that will offset the huge cost compared to what a car of equal comfort/quality would get me.

I tried and loved the Renault Zoe, but unless you go for the absolute top trim with "leather" seats, it's lovely plastic and lovely fabric all over. I've never sat in a car that felt as cheap. For the same price I can get a top spec Mazda 6 and use the left over money to fuel it for years. Cars that aren't even comparable in anything except price.

Think of your situation as a point on a descending curve of cost. A few years ago, the economics was much worse for your case. In a few years, it will be much better.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2018 07:26

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

MrOnBicycle posted:

Which is exactly why I'm holding off on buying an EV until they become reasonably priced compared to an ICE car. Won't be buying any new ICE car neither. I'd rather save that money for when a nice EV shows up.

You're basically waiting for the used market to pick up. I think EV depreciation will be quite hard once supply is high and gradually better and better models are introduced. But right now, in Norway at least, they're holding up very well since demand is so high. If you want the most economical solution, become your username. :v:

# ¿ Sep 6, 2018 08:02

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

A Tesla almost ran me over just now. Pack it in, Elonailures.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2018 14:59

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

Nfcknblvbl posted:

I'm legit looking forward to getting this car.

Have you pre-ordered?

# ¿ Sep 6, 2018 17:20

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

ClassH posted:

Did/does Kia's other EVs have actively cooled batteries? How have they held up?

Kia has no other EV I think, apart from the same car in PHEV config. It's the same as Hyundai Kona, actively cooled and heated 64 kWh.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2018 21:05

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

Powershift posted:

Kia sells a Soul EV, but it has air cooled batteries.

Doh! Forgot about the Soul, even though I've driven about 500 miles in one.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2018 22:03

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:

Uh sure that sounds convenient but what if I wanted to ride my lawn mower on a weekend road trip to the lake? What the hell am I supposed to do then?

You'd have to stop for grass anyway.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2018 17:33

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

Kia Niro charging on CCS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRGgOdjXWOY

A bit faster than Kona, tapers less on the midrange but has slightly weird breakpoints. No matter. Max rate is in the low 70s, which considering the lower consumption puts it up near the Model S, certainly the 60 or 75 models, at 470 km/hour. You won't get a full hour's worth of that speed though, since it fills up and begins tapering around the half hour mark. In a real hour of charging it added 380 km range. That means a 700 km trip is doable with a 1 hour dinner break in the middle, or two half hours along the way. Awesome.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2018 21:48

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

dissss posted:

I thought the Kona was significantly smaller and is on a different platform?

I don't know about platform or not, but they certainly share a lot, like battery packs, software, buttons, levers etc.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2018 12:59

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

e: forget about it!

Ola fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Sep 8, 2018

# ¿ Sep 8, 2018 21:52

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

The EV anticipation / speculation / discussion electrothread - Don't root your car

# ¿ Sep 14, 2018 07:18

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

creationist believer posted:

I always wished this thread was called "anticipation/speculation/discussion/electrocution thread"

It will be once people start DIYing (which I just read as dying).

# ¿ Sep 14, 2018 08:14

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

In a slight surprise, ~~Citr�en~~ PSA is releasing an EV, the DS 3 Crossback. Small crossover with a 50 kWh battery, list price less than the Hyundai Kona.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2018 09:37

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

Teslabj�rn is doing some range tests on the i-Pace. On FB he's saying:

quote:

If you drive at 90 km/h and get some tail wind, 370 km with I-Pace is possible. WLTP range is 470 km. Estimated available energy is 80.8 kWh, not 84.7 kWh that I heard before.

It seems to be thirstier for electrons than even the Model X. At 110 kph it does 249 Wh/km, vs Model X 216 Wh/km. Hopefully something that can be optimized through software.

e: some more info regarding that net capacity:

quote:

I-Pace has a buffer on top. I guess it is 4 kWh. At 100 % on display, it still charges at 20 kW right before it finishes. And when I start driving, I can regen about half power. This means you can charge to 100 % daily without having to worry that the battery will degrade faster. 100 % on display seems to be 95 % true SoC.

Ola fucked around with this message at 10:11 on Sep 26, 2018

# ¿ Sep 26, 2018 09:15

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

spandexcajun posted:

Any other Tesla or ICE RWD winter car drivers have better suggestions?

R2s are very good when it's very cold, but not too good when it's above freezing and wet roads. Long braking distance, overly soft feel. If your winter temps have mild periods, check out the newer R3s, they are supposed to fix that issue. ContiVikingContact 6 and 7 are also very good in variable winters, not sure if they are sold in the US. Perhaps under another name.

# ¿ Sep 26, 2018 16:10

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

I'm also quite unsure how any range optimization Tesla has done hampers performance or increases degradation. The P85D got much improved range through a software update IIRC, something with torque sleep.

# ¿ Sep 26, 2018 17:08

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

Another tip for Tesla winter tires which I guess applies in the US as much as in Norway: Loads of people sell their stock rims second hand as they go aftermarket. You may even get a fresh set of summers you can use when yours are worn out.

# ¿ Sep 26, 2018 19:36

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

Anything under the wrap is definitely going to be new, but you probably need the occasional refill of ceramic to keep that easy wash thing going. Perhaps a bottle of spray sealer will do. PPF seems to be very expensive compared to insurance payment and body panel swaps, but I guess there's something about peace of mind? That stuff can handle someone keying your car or a scrape against a lamp post. And certainly the inevitable rock chips.

I love the look of matte wraps in Instagram shots, but in real life it tends to be a bit more dull. Once it gets a dusting of road grime it looks like a school blackboard, I kind of want to take a piece of chalk and write "remember to buy winter tires, not M+S" somewhere.

# ¿ Sep 27, 2018 20:32

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

ExecuDork posted:

* Has anybody taken a AWD EV offroad? The Model X looks like a big dumb SUV, has anyone tried it out?

Yes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie79Jk9Ob2s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5EBczqJDRg
(the repair video contains a lot of stuff specific to him, mostly interesting to his vlog followers keeping up with some warranty issues)

It's not very good offroad, but pretty good in general "sport utility" conditions, particular that last stretch to a winter cabin on 3-4 inches of snow or similar. You can tell how it pitches around on bumps instead of letting the suspension travel absorb it. You see it even with the Model S on bumpy city streets. it pitches and rolls when ze Germans just soak it up and float. A bit too "sporty", or just not sophisticated enough. Good suspension has markedly different characteristics on slow and fast bumps.

Here's some fooling around in the snow:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuxkwLccmEY

It beaches quite easily, but it does climb hills very well. That heavy, moist snow in the video packs up to a icy glaze real quick when you start spinning.

# ¿ Sep 27, 2018 21:58

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

spandexcajun posted:

Uh, the whole point of PPF wraps like Xpel / SunTek / LLumar is that they don't do this. They have UV protection and warranty against yellowing.

He's saying the unwrapped parts will deteriorate like normal paint does while the wrapped bits don't, which over time will create a difference.

# ¿ Sep 27, 2018 22:59

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

spandexcajun posted:

Which is why I had the car coated with a high end ceramic coating, that also contains UV protection.

I get that I don't have some guarantee that if I remove the PPF in a few years the panels will look exactly the same, but I'm just not convinced it's a problem. The detailer I used wraps 1000's of cars a year and has repeat customers over the years. He has not seen real world examples of what you are saying, I asked about it specifically. That is the reasoning behind PPF + ceramic coating.

I just don't think it's a widespread problem. I could not find examples on internet car forums that would indicate this is some large issue with PPF. The biggest complaints are yellowing (solved problem if you don't use poo poo quality wrap) and peeling. My install warranties against peeling. Well and cost, sure it's debatable if it's financially worth it (probably not), but I did it to keep the car looking good as long as possible, not to make money / retain resale value.

Yeah I think you'll be fine. You risk getting a color difference by parking your car the same orientation in the driveway every day as well, in theory. Not a big deal, or even a small deal.

# ¿ Sep 28, 2018 03:17

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

Elon may very well be in serious trouble, but so is this thread if we keep going on about him.

# ¿ Sep 28, 2018 04:31

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

bawfuls posted:

Sorry but the high profile, cult-of-personality CEO of the most important electric car company in business today being charged with securities fraud by the SEC is a big deal for EVs and will inevitably dominate any EV discussion in the short term.

Apology accepted, but no that is not inevitable, it's just what you want to spend your internet posting time doing. The last thread got closed because of this. There is an Elon thread elsewhere.

# ¿ Sep 28, 2018 06:34

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

Cached Money posted:

Has anyone seen or tried the new Mercedes EQ cars?

Fully Charged got a ride in a development mule EQC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7ZjkoJgXWk

# ¿ Sep 30, 2018 20:48

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

Wait what? At least in the Northeast the people who have a hard time installing charging infrastructure are the people with the best access to public transportation.

I figured "bad public transportation" was just a way of saying "American public transportation".

# ¿ Oct 1, 2018 12:46

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

Platystemon posted:

I would pay good money for a cam or ECU firmware that fixed this.

Also as an upgrade option on rental cars.

Just pretend you are driving a beast, but that you're known for your cool restraint.

# ¿ Oct 2, 2018 23:36

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

bawfuls posted:

That is definitely a good color but I'll never understand the appeal of those particular wheels. Whatever tickles your fancy I guess.

"Don't overpay for option wheels, go stock or 3rd party" tickles mine.

e: also they are hub caps. Sort of.

# ¿ Oct 3, 2018 20:13

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# ¿ May 23, 2024 20:13

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

Which reminds me, has anyone done a thorough consumption test on those rims/caps?

# ¿ Oct 3, 2018 20:19

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > The EV Thread - I opted for the performance GPU package

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