|
 Age of Empires II, Age of Kings is a Real Time Strategy game originally developed in 1999 by Ensemble Studios as the sequel to the highly successful Age of Empires. The primary difference that defines the sequel is that rather than being set at the beginning of civilization leading into the late classical period, instead it displays cultures from all over the world during the period corresponding to what in European terms would be the Dark Ages until the Renaissance. In both cases, the games focus on the clash between empires as defined by the successful creation and management of an empire's economy, and then translating that engine of productivity into a military engine of destruction that brings down an entire army on your foes. Or just build very pretty towns. This can be a very lovely game sometimes, and many have gotten lost in building up amazing works of architecture unaware that their opponent is about to send an army full of angry knights to beat the living tar out of them.    The game has itself been successful and received an Expansion pack: The Conquerors which added a number of new features and civilizations, including most notably several Mesoamerican ones. In addition, there has been an updated, high definition rerelease on Steam, improving the graphics and a number of game functions. In fact, three expansion packs have since been released: Forgotten Empires - A former fan expansion, and general all rounder in including more content in the game, Rise of the Rajas - An expansion pack primarily focusing on Indian and Southeast Asian empires, and African Kingdoms - which adds exactly what it says on the tin (as well as one or two Islamic and European empires that regularly interacted with Africa). This means that surprisingly for a 20 year old game, enthusiasm has never been higher among fans and new players alike. FAQ and Comments Hey, this isn't the first AoEII thread i've seen floating around! Yes, the people in GBS have a cool and good thread located here: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3847545 and at least one attempt has been made at posting about AoEII in Games that i'm aware of. But I am a boring serious person and would like to at least try and provide something that will allow for a comprehensive organization of resources relating to AoEII rather than just a place to announce the occasional game. The game has multiple modes, right? I expect the majority of the talk here to revolve around advice or invites for games in Random Map mode, the standard "build your engine of destruction then set it loose" thing described above. However, even within Random Map there are a number of subvariants such as Regicide where the focus is not exclusively on destroying the other person's empire but killing a specific king unit, Deathmatch where you have a ton of resources, and several others. Additionally the game comes with a number of predefined scenarios which set things up for particular historical conflicts or a series of linked scenarios connected together in a Campaign. These tend to have things change on the fly more due to event triggers and are typically limited to single player only, and are thus usually considered to be their own distinct thing. Of course none of this deals with Mods. There are a LOT of player mods and Steam has only made it easier to get access to them. These can do anything from changing the map to fundamentally changing the game entirely. I expect to be describing mods in detail in another post, but for now keep an eye out for things like Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, Tower Defense, and Castles Blood Automatic (more commonly referred to as CBA) if you really want to change the game around or Diplomacy if you just want a neat map but the rules unchanged. Where should I start? If you're entirely new to the game, the tutorial is pretty good for getting things up to a basic understanding of the game. If you're looking for questions on a specific civilization to choose, I will be doing a more in depth post on the various empires below this one. If someone wants to discuss super heavy actions per minute stuff... well, I welcome the conversation, but I am nowhere good enough at this game to be giving advice on that. Youtubers Several people in the thread have been mentioning Youtubers as a good source of information, or high level games to watch for fun. I'm going to collect their suggestions for which to watch here in the OP. The Viper, ZeroEmpires, and T90 Official are all high level players who post videos pretty regularly. If you learn best by watching or just want to have some fun watching high level play or a guy successfully managing to pull off a Monk Rush then check these out. Spirit of the Law is one of the best and most accessable theorycrafting and mechanics guys in the game. He does some games too, but admits that he's here to tease out the inner workings of AoE2's systems more than anything else. Norovo... honestly doesn't really post a lot any more, but I found his videos exploring some of the scenarios interesting, especially for CBA. Do I need the expansion packs to play as the Incas/Berbers/Malay/etc.? Yes and no. You can't make a multiplayer game with the expansion packs if you don't have them, but you can join a game with someone who does and gain all the benefits as long as you have the base game on Steam. Additionally, you can play one civilization per expansion pack for free on a rotating schedule in multiplayer. I am an AoEII Veteran, what do the modern expansion packs add? Warning, if you're an AoEII veteran, the HD edition itself changes some things around even without the expansion packs. Most of them are small balance fixes, but even a small change can create big changes in a player's strategy. Each expansion patch likewise changes small things for similar balance purposes. The team's probably done on the big changes for the near future, but keep informed before you play! quote:General Expansion Additions quote:Forgotten Empires quote:African Kingdoms quote:Rise of the Rajas Is there a Discord? Here. Is there a Steam Group? Here. What's with the thread title? There is an infamous problem with the way the Mill is shaped which prevents people from finding a simple and intuitive way to put farms down for maximum efficiency. There are a number of ways to get around this, but none that will look as neat as if you had just been allowed to place things down in a simple square. 
Jossar fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Aug 12, 2018 |
#
?
Aug 11, 2018 21:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 02:13 |
|
|
Jossar's Civilization Guide Warning: I have done some research on these civilizations, but as I have mentioned before I am not a very good player. I cannot guarantee that this works for everyone, but is simply what I have observed. Everyone has their own preferences and is likely to work well with certain units in greater amounts than the "meta" standard and this is viable, as long as the civilization does not actively suck at what you are trying to use. Siege is generally useful for its role in Area Control unless your civilization has awful tech restrictions and it may be worth keeping around a few pieces even without being mentioned. Monks are usually support-y enough, that I won't mention them unless they are particularly synergistic with a civilization, so use at your own preference. Also, the situation in an individual game always takes priority over recommendations - if your opponent is trying some weird counter-intuitive strategy, you may need to use something you're weak in to fend them off at least once or twice. For many civilizations there is a common theme: you are good at a particular thing, and your victory is secured by doing that thing and figuring out how to counter your opponent's reaction to it. This is a good strategic mindset to have on autopilot while you deal with the tactical challenges of a particular game. All civilization guides are based on the latest edition of the game. Base Game - which in the HD Rerelease includes The Conquerors quote:Aztecs What You Build: Jaguar Warriors/Main Infantry, Monks. What You Pair: Eagle Warriors, Siege, maybe Skirmishers Where You Suck: Anti-Cavalry, Anti-Gunpowder, Defences Jossar's Overview: The Aztecs are a powerful infantry civilization with a relatively strong economy. Unless you're a very timid player you even more than most should try to rush. The monks help diversify as do your relatively good siege options, but you may be faced with a lot of micro in order to make things work properly. Your lack of Cavalry isn't that bad, but you kind of need Eagle Warriors alongside your Jaguars to have speed. The biggest problem you face that isn't directly mentioned here is that since you don't have Halberdiers or Light Cavalry, you are going to struggle in a late game trash-fight. In the end, it usually comes down to whether or not an opponent can hold out against you long enough to beat you down with their own advantages. quote:Britons What You Build: Archers (of all kinds), Trebuchets What You Pair: Trash Units (Skirmishers, Halberdiers, Scout Cavalry), maybe Champions Where You Suck: Gunpowder (noticeable because of Archer weakness), Navy Jossar's Overview: The Britons used to be regarded as one of the strongest Archer civilizations in the game. Nowadays that's a bit more contested, but they're still pretty far up there. What you do is smack people down from long range. You even get okay siege and cavalry, and a pretty good regular infantry line! They're never quite good enough to make you deviate from what you do best, but you have a lot of support options, perhaps more than directly listed here. You are the nerd with glasses who gets beaten up by big beefy dudes and siege weapons with pierce armor. Your biggest problem not mentioned directly is that you're kind of playing a defensive game until Imperial when you can pull an Agincourt and pile up 40 Longbowmen. In the end, it usually comes down to whether you can find a good counter to whatever your opponent is trying to squish your archers/trebuchets with. Also, as odd as it may seem for an island nation, don't get into a water fight since you will lose. quote:Byzantines What You Build: Navy, Cataphracts, Walls, What You Pair: Foot Based Trash Units (Halberdiers and Skirmishers), maybe Camels, Monks. Where You Suck: Special, see below. Jossar's Overview: You like playing a tank in other games? The Byzantines are for you! Their specialty is turtling as hard as humanly possible until the late Imperial Age at which point they've gotten all their upgrades and then they slowly grind opponents out of existence with units designed to counter whatever your opponent brings to the table. Unfortunately, if you make a big mistake your good units are expensive and difficult to replace. In the end it usually comes down to whether you can find a way to actually finish the game once you've finished your prep or if you screw up so hard that it lets the opponent finish you instead. quote:Celts What You Build: Main Infantry Line/Woad Raiders, Siege What You Pair: Halberdiers Where You Suck: Archers, Defenses Jossar's Overview: There's not much to say about the Celts that we haven't said so far, albeit in other contexts. Among the best Siege units in the game, with fairly competent Infantry (the speed bonus is surprisingly useful in a number of ways) and an econ bonus that helps advance anything involving wood. You have alright cavalry, even the whole paladin line, but it's not going to be your strongest suit. You actually have a surprisingly decent Navy because of techs and the woodcutting bonus, which is why it's said that the Celts can compete anywhere, so long as you're playing to their strengths. Of course if you don't know how to properly leverage mass siege unit tactics then you're sunk since even if it's only one part in your army, it's still important enough. In the end it usually comes down to whether you have a good enough army composition to counter your opponent's answer to your siege, but at least you're not as one note as the Franks. quote:Chinese What You Build: Archers, Scorpions, sort of? What You Pair: Halberdiers Where You Suck: Kinda Weird to Play Jossar's Overview: The Chinese have a weirder playstyle compared to a lot of other civilizations - from their nonstandard villager heavy start, to their unique unit, to the fact that they're not really bad at anything - they just naturally lean Archer because their techs are slightly more favorable that way. Honestly in the midgame before all the techs come out you could be doing pretty much anything and it wouldn't be *wrong* as such. It's harder to give a definitive 100% true piece of advice on what goes well or wrong for this civilization, but to the extent that it's anything, it's about how good you are at adapting to a particular opponent. quote:Franks What You Build: Heavy Cavalry, Castles What You Pair: Throwing Axemen, Gunpowder Units, (Main Infantry and Siege while you upgrade), maybe Light Cavalry. Where You Suck: Archers Jossar's Overview: Back to simple. The Franks take farms, use the food bonus to build a billion Paladins, support with gunpowder units and their unique unit, which they can pop out more of because you can spam more castles. You have the Barracks line, and you'll probably use it until you get your castles up and for trash fights, but the farm to cavalry funnel just works so well as long as you have the gold. Of course paladins are expensive, so if you dive, you dive hard. In the end, it usually comes down to whether you can run the Frank machine better than your opponent knows how to counter it (particularly the paladins). quote:Goths What You Build: Main Infantry/Huskarls What You Pair: Trash Infantry Where You Suck: Defenses (really bad), Navy Jossar's Overview: Huskarls are pretty beefy, but honestly Gothic infantry in general is scary. Nobody outproduces the Goths, and i've had trouble against the AI playing them more than other civilizations because if they pop a Castle (or get Anarchy up, even a regular barracks) you're already dealing with a flood of troops. And if you're a good Goth player, you won't settle for just one troop production facility. Unfortunately, their defenses are really weak so if your opponents know what's coming they will work as hard as possible to smash you into the dust before you hit mid-Castle age and get the conga line going. Funny enough, I actually like the Goths because even though they follow a lot of other civilizations in having a really narrow gimmick, it's done so well and uniquely that it doesn't feel like any other civ. In the end, it usually comes down to whether or not you can outpace your opponents at the start, to keep a good enough balance of power until you can open the floodgates. quote:Huns What You Build: Cavalry Archers What You Pair: Cavalry, Trebuchets, Trash Mobs. Where You Suck: Defenses, Infantry, moderately weak Siege? Jossar's Overview: Huns are a civilization that is built around raiding. They have to be, since most of their unique stuff isn't really that great, although the Tarkans make okay units to replace siege. Cavalry archers raid best, and they're what you get bonuses on, though you might want to add 1-2 knights for extra punch/defense. You mess up your opponent in Castle Age by attacks on their economy so that their hampered setup can't withstand you when you make the Imperial Age push. Or just knock em out in Castle if you can. You can do a late game trash fight decently well, especially because you'll be sinking resources into Cavalry bonuses in general, but in the end, it usually comes down to how hard you trolled in the earlier ages of the game. quote:Japanese What You Build: Infantry, What You Pair: A little of everything, really. Where You Suck: Cavalry. Jossar's Overview: The Japanese are very good at a lot of things, and you'll want to take advantage of that since there isn't quite one thing that's a perfect answer for you. However, the best thing in their lineup is definitely the infantry (in general). That attack bonus allows them to put out a lot more damage, and it's even better for the Samurai who are already really fast although they have a specific niche. In the end, it usually comes down to whether you can leverage those various factors into something that overcomes your opponent's specialties... unless you're facing another all-rounder in which case you're probably relying more heavily on your infantry bonus. quote:Koreans What You Build: Defenses, Archers What You Pair: Siege, Infantry Where You Suck: Cavalry, Economy Jossar's Overview: Despite being a Naval civilization, the Koreans suffer from the fact that their best stuff really shows up later in the game, and even then there are better civilizations. It's certainly no weakness, but it's not their greatest strength. That would be the ridiculous amount of bonuses they get to towers and walls and in this respect their moniker is well earned. Their true strength in offense lies in the War Wagons. They do have reasonable options for Infantry, though it's not their specialty. In the end, it usually comes down to whether you can utilize their high quality units to do something more than just turtle for eternity. quote:Mayans What You Build: Archers What You Pair: Eagle Warriors, Halberdiers. Where You Suck: Countering High Pierce Armor/Only Okay Infantry?, Gunpowder. Jossar's Overview: The Mayans have a pretty strong economy, some of the most cost effective archers in the game, and not a lot of real weaknesses. Flexible in terms of strategy if you need it, and have the potential to contest the water, although you'll likely lose here to a dedicated Naval civilization. In the end, it usually comes down to whether your opponent can exploit the fact that you don't have as good of an answer for Gunpowder or non-cavalry units with high pierce armor (since you do still have Halberdiers). quote:Mongols What You Build: Cavalry Archers, Archers, Siege. What You Pair: Light Cavalry, Skirmishers, Infantry Where You Suck: Very Micro Heavy Jossar's Overview: The Mongols are a very demanding but potentially very rewarding civilization. They can do a fairly decent job at everything except the heavy cavalry line (so they have a slightly weak late Castle Age) and do exceptionally well when using siege and cavalry archers. Unfortunately these are some of the most micromanagement intense heavy units in the game and unlike say the Celts who use siege but also infantry and Huns who use a siege cavalry unit along with their cavalry archers, you're just not at your best with the Mongols unless you're doing sick onager formation dodges and cav archer kiting all the time. In the end, it usually comes down to your technical proficiency and ability to manage multiple fronts in the game compared to your opponent. quote:Persians What You Build: Cavalry, Navy What You Pair: Light Cavalry, Skirmishers, Halberdiers, Hand Cannoneers Where You Suck: Double Edged Elephants, Main Infantry Jossar's Overview: The Persians have a pretty good economy on land and sea thanks to their bonuses, and the production even lets them have a fairly decent Navy just because of output potential. On land, it's all about the Cavalry. The War Elephants are their primary strength, but Paladins can perform well as well, and it may be necessary as Elephants can actually be countered pretty nastily by monks due to their slow speed. You do need something besides various different types of cavalry though, if only to counter the inevitable Halberdiers. In the end, it's a similar strategy as the Franks where you build a giant army of Cavalry + Support, though you trade some of the Franks pure efficiency for flexibility. quote:Saracens What You Build: Mamelukes and Camels, Monks*, Navy What You Pair: Siege, Cavalry Archers Where You Suck: Spearman Line, Jossar's Overview: There's a lot of different interesting things you can do with the Saracens - in fact, while a number of different civilizations have access to Camels, they're one of the few in the base game where it's worth using them all the time though that's mainly because the Saracens don't get Halberdiers as an option. They're one of the top tier Navy civilizations and if you're really feeling creative they're one of the pioneers of the Monk rush (although this tactic is mentioned more as a theoretical curiosity as it tends not to work so well in practice). Their endgame usually involves a rush of Mamelukes slaughtering anything that moves while Siege or Cavalry Archers reduces buildings to rubble. But this means they're dependent on expensive units and nothing that they produce is really tanky. In the end, it usually comes down to whether you've leveraged your miscellaneous resources to build a sufficiently strong horde of "alternate" cavalry. quote:Spanish What You Build: Cavalry, Navy, Villagers (?) What You Pair: Gunpowder Units, Monks Where You Suck: Anti-Archery, No real answer to Trash. Jossar's Overview: The Spanish are an interesting civilization that sort of highlights the expansion pack trying to build a civilization around things that didn't get as much attention in the original game. And it succeeds, mainly on the strength of some really powerful bonuses to those things. Also Supremacy has been used for some silly, silly things although you can't win a game with only villagers. In the end, it usually comes down to whether you can find the perfect sweet spot late enough in the game that you can break out all your toys, but before the game has descended into an all out Trash Unit fight. EDIT: I have been informed by khwarezm that apparently the Spanish are much stronger at trash fights than I thought since they get a lot of good upgrades, and this actually may be a pretty high point for them. The part about the Conquistador remaining good remains true though. quote:Teutons What You Build: Infantry, Defenses, Cavalry What You Pair: Monks, Gunpowder Units, Siege Where You Suck: Extremely Slow, Archers Jossar's Overview: The Teutons are a civilization that moves slow as molasses and hits as hard as the Great Molasses Flood. They have some of the tankiest units in the game and can hit relatively hard, but rely on those defenses over the ability to dodge. They also tend to prefer really expensive units, which creates a further need for quality, since when it vanishes you're broke. In the end, it usually comes down to whether your wall is strong enough to take everything that comes at it and go forward to destroy the enemy. quote:Turks What You Build: Cavalry Archers, Gunpowder units What You Pair: Camels, Light Cavalry Where You Suck: Spearman line (no Pikemen even) Jossar's Overview: The Turks are a civilization that can do a number of things decently well including Navy and an alright archer line, but the lack of even Feudal age upgrades to the Spearman line hurts them a lot - basically making them reliant on Camel for a good cavalry counter. Their bonuses are pretty straightforward about what they do best though - Light Cavalry, Gunpowder units and Cavalry archers. In the end, it usually comes down to whether you can avoid losing your expensive units via good positioning/range and have a good answer to your opponent's cavalry. quote:Vikings What You Build: Navy, Infantry What You Pair: Most things, but... Where You Suck: General Late Game Jossar's Overview: The Vikings are the unquestioned masters of the seas. They have a pretty competent land game as well, but they don't have anything special which lends itself to being poor closers. The flip side of Byzantium which wants to get to the late game but is similarly bad at closing. Still, if you're playing team games then everyone's existence is drastically improved by your presence. Just try to rely on a regular navy, as the Longboats tend to not be cost effective. In the end, it usually comes down to you holding a domineering enough position that your opponent never really reaches their comfortable end game. Jossar fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Aug 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2018 21:02
|
|
|
Any news about some AOE2: Definitive Edition?
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2018 22:08
|
|
|
So here's the thing. The Definitive Version for the original Age of Empires is available now... but only through the Microsoft Store for some reason. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/age-of-empires-definitive-edition/9n2kmdvlk85d?rtc=1 What i've seen based on that and the limited comments elsewhere, is a general suspicion that the announced AoE II Definitive Edition is just Microsoft trying to put it on their store with new graphical bells and whistles. Jossar fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Aug 11, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2018 23:12
|
|
|
Posted the first set of civ reviews from the base game and Conquerors. If you've got disagreements, feel free to voice them - I tend to jump around a lot and may not have as good a grasp on certain things as a diehard Spanish fan might, for instance.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2018 05:58
|
|
|
The Viper is probably the best AoC player and has tons of streams/vids if you want to watch high end games: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheViperAOC
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2018 06:42
|
|
|
If you are at all interested in game mechanics and how they work the channel Spirit of The Law is great. Looking into if things actually work the way they seem. How good is a particular unit really? Which are the most important upgrades and why?
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2018 07:42
|
|
|
Poil posted:If you are at all interested in game mechanics and how they work the channel Spirit of The Law is great. Looking into if things actually work the way they seem. How good is a particular unit really? Which are the most important upgrades and why? I actually really like Spirit of the Law and most of my opinions on civilizations tend to be similar to those expressed in his excellent series of Civilization reviews. Appropriately, enough, since I did the first set he also set up a quiz that helps you figure out on a tech by tech/strategy basis which civ best suits your particular playstyle. It can be a little arcane for someone just starting the game, but it's useful if you want to confirm your preferences or try a civ revolving around something new: https://www.buildquizzes.com/Q4142C
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2018 13:24
|
|
|
I liked AoE1 more as a kid but I fully concede that AoE2 is the better game and I also enjoyed it quite a bit back then. I started getting an RTS itch a couple days ago so good timing with this thread! I remember liking Vikings, Chinese, and Spanish the most. Also pro-click: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Czb64v3WMY E: I am very bad at multiplayer though. C-Euro fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Aug 13, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 01:23
|
|
|
Really, really, love this game. First encountered it as a kid on a demo PC at the local CompUSA and fell in love with it on the spot. My brother and I still find time to play together and I'm so happy the community is still alive and new expansions are still coming out for this classic. Seriously, as far as RTS goes, this game did basically everything right, has aged better than newer RTS that tried to do 3D graphics (homeworld, WC3), and in my opinion is surpassed in balance and polish only by StarCraft 2  Edit: forums are hard Jesustheastronaut! fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Aug 13, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 02:05
|
|
|
hell yeah AOE
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 04:27
|
|
|
Always like Age of Empires and similar RTS(Rise of Nations, Empire Earth, etc) in all forms, though I've always been universally terrible at them. I'm always too passive, or don't train enough, or train the wrong things, or don't explore enough and so on.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 09:28
|
|
|
C-Euro posted:Also pro-click:   The teal player is loving incredible 
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 14:23
|
|
|
C-Euro posted:Also pro-click: Age of Empires II - There Is No Sexual That A Galleon Is
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 15:36
|
|
|
The Shortest Path posted:
It's such a good match, people joke that wrestling and DBZ are soap operas for dudes but that match has better twists and turns than any of that other stuff. Also Teal is how I've played every multiplayer RTS match that I've ever been in- build one of each building and a few of each unit as quickly as I can, get rolled by someone who built huge numbers of a couple of units, then spend the rest of the match running interference for whoever didn't kill me.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 20:29
|
|
|
It turns out that I won't be able to fit all the civilizations in one post, since after all there are a lot! I'm therefore gonna break the rest up in posts by expansion pack. Forgotten Empires quote:Incas What You Build: Eagle Warriors, Uniques. Defenses What You Pair: Skirmishers, maybe Halberdiers Where You Suck: Late Game Jossar's Overview: The Incas sort of feel like what would happen if you took the Byzantines but instead of relying on a few Cataphracts supported by a mix of everything else, you built a lot of their unique units, Eagle Warriors, some siege and figure out where to deploy each of these as discrete blocks for maximum effectiveness. You similarly lack a real clincher, but a horde of Kamayuks apologizes or a multitude of sins and your units are cheap enough that you can put up a fight even after a screw up. In the end, it's usually about whether you crush your opponents before you're forced back into using the main line units for trash fights. quote:Indians What You Build: Camels, Elephant Archers What You Pair: Hand Cannoneers, Archers Where You Suck: Late Game Focus Jossar's Overview: Exactly what it says on the tin - you have your Camels (arguably better than the Saracens) and you have your guns (and also your elephant archers). It's a pretty powerful combination - the hand cannoneers take out infantry, the camels take out cavalry, and the Elephant Archers take out everything else. In the end, it's usually about the same as the Spanish - whether you survive to the point where you can bring out all the big guns. Also being careful not to use your camels outside their niche uses. quote:Italians What You Build: Archers, Navy What You Pair: Skirmishers, Gunpowder Units, Condottieri, Monks Where You Suck: Infantry, Conventional Siege Jossar's Overview: Surprisingly also a Gunpowder civilization, or at least it might as well be. Range is the name of the game with the Italians although it's not quite as singularly focused on one archer type as it is for the Britons. Your unique units tend to be more counter focused than all about that archer supremacy. Probably better to play the Italians on a water map though, since that makes Cannon Galleons and the like even more useful as a substitute for the things you're missing. In the end, it usually comes down to whether you can shoot an onrushing opponent before they get into close range and devastate your forces. quote:Magyars What You Build: Light Cavalry, What You Pair: Infantry (mainly early game), Cavalry, Archers Where You Suck: Siege, Defenses Jossar's Overview: The ultimate trash spammer and scout rush civ. Not only do you get Halberdiers and Skirmishers (with the Halbs even having the free upgrades), but you have amazing scouts and once the Huszars come into play you pretty much dominate the light cavalry field. Unfortunately, your siege game is pretty weak compared to the rest, but at least you don't have to worry about the enemy siege thanks the Huszars having ridiculous anti-siege bonuses on that front. In the end, it usually comes down to whether or not you overwhelm your opponent because if they can bring the fight to you, you don't have as good of an answer to what your opponents have probably brought to the table. quote:Slavs What You Build: Infantry, Siege What You Pair: Boyars Where You Suck: Archers, anti-Archer, maybe Defenses Jossar's Overview: Druzhina and a very good tech tree help to keep the Slavs an Infantry and Siege Civilization rather than just a Siege Civilization. The trample damage gets really nasty when you have a ton of infantry units stacked together - which is more easily accomplished as opposed to massing up Cataphracts. The cheap siege is also great as you are bringing a lot of it to the table, and most of it high quality. You have everything you need to get the job done, but a lot of your non-Infantry units can die really quick if they're up against the wrong things or if your opponent is great at micro/breaking through your lines. In the end, it usually comes down to your line discipline and having those Boyars start the break before the infantry literally crushes all that lies before it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 20:52
|
|
|
Glad to see another thread, I remember making one a couple of years ago but it faded into obscurity  . Can we talk about the other Age Of games here if it comes up?Also Jossar do you mind if I comment a bit on your civ descriptions? For the Aztecs Jaguar Warriors are super situational, basically you'll only send them out against specific civilizations who field their own powerful infantry, like the Goths. Mainline infantry (Militia to Champion line) are rarely seen overall except at the very earliest and very latest stages of the game since they are severely outclassed by archers and cavalry, as a result Jaguar Warriors rarely find the time to meet them. In addition to that a lot of the unique infantry units are too situational themselves to see much of them (the Teutonic Knight, for example, seems cool but is just too drat slow to really work in serious play), or they might be like the Gbeto who Jaguars are bad at handling since they are fast and hit from a range. The biggest use for Jaguars actually often seems to be match ups against other Native American Civs since they are good at dealing with Eagle warriors specifically. Overall the Aztec army should be heavily focused on Eagles and Archers since they are flexible and good at raiding while also relatively cheap and easy to produce, Archers in particular do most of the Jaguar's jobs better since they will gently caress militia-line and spearman-line units themselves. More useful for the Aztecs are their monks, if you get some techs researched they get insanely tanky, with a few done they can tank a full damage Mangonel shot in Castle Age which is huge, that gives much better ability to survive and convert the units attacking them, if you watch pro games they generally say that a monk dying but being able to convert a knight or Mangonel before dying is basically worth it, and with the Aztecs they have much better ability to keep those monks alive to convert even more guys later. When you're playing as the Persians, Elephants are cool looking and powerful, but they are so easy to counter it's just not really worth it against somebody who knows the game, really its all about the Paladins, they are second only to the Franks and the Persians have some other options besides. I disagree that Spanish don't have an answer to trash, quite the opposite, a lot of players say that when things devolve into trash wars the Spanish are one of the best save for something like the Malay or Magyars, they are one of the very few, I think only actually, civilizations that can get every single generic upgrade for every single trash unit, so their Spearmen, Hussars and Skirimishers are the very best they can be without getting into civilization specific bonuses. That means they are really versatile in trash wars, especially since Supremacy effectively turns their villagers into powerhouse military units that are especially good at destroying buildings and are way harder to kill than normal. The fact that they don't have to spend gold on Blacksmith upgrades further assists their trash. Prior to that the Conquistador is one of the best raiding units in Castle age. It's the Turks that are real hosed on Trash. Although their Hussars are good they are the only civ in the game that can't upgrade to Elite Skirmisher or Pikeman, they don't even get Onager, that means their armies are always super gold focused so they are really fixated on closing out the game in early imperial age when they have the full array of gunpowder available to them but still have gold to spend, when that gold is gone there is almost no way they can hope to win since their trash is so weak. Just some things I've picked up over the years. khwarezm fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Aug 13, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 21:54
|
|
|
Don't mind at all - I haven't played a lot of high level play, so if someone's picked stuff up that's probably more true to life. The one thing I would argue is that if Champions aren't used that much then that might be a mistake. They're supposed to remain a cost-effective counter to stuff like pikes. I don't mind talking about the other Age of games, but I can't really comment on any of them apart from Age of Mythology - although funny enough I originally discovered the series by playing the original Age of Empires as an extremely tiny child. If you want to list it,  .
Jossar fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Aug 13, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 22:27
|
|
|
khwarezm posted:Glad to see another thread, I remember making one a couple of years ago but it faded into obscurity Amusingly if you have a berber ally you suddenly get one of the best trash units in the game.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 22:46
|
|
|
Jossar posted:Don't mind at all - I haven't played a lot of high level play, so if someone's picked stuff up that's probably more true to life. Well Champions best role is to kill trash, they cost a lot less gold than most other power units and don't get countered by any of the trash while having a high attack that tears through them. That's why I mentioned that militia units either show up at the very start of the game (dark age rush with militia, possibly transitioning into men at arms in the feudal age if they survive) and at the very end (trash annihilation with champions when gold starts drying up). The problem is that games often don't go on long enough to get to trash wars, so you have a massive period from Feudal to late Imperial where militia line units are almost always a bad choice, in addition to that they have so many upgrades that it can be very difficult to transition into them since it's common to get all the way to late Imperial and never upgrade even to men at arms so you have a lot of time and resources to invest to get up to Champion which makes them even less attractive. Oddly the best civ for militia line is probably the Malay, even though they only get two handed swordsman their forced levy tech removes their gold cost which means you can endlessly poo poo out a trash unit way more powerful than all the others and almost always close things out in your favor, if you get to that stage that is. Also, against Native American civs champions are good at killing Eagle Warriors. khwarezm fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Aug 13, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2018 22:57
|
|
|
My first PvP game in something near a decade and a half, and man, I really forgot how hard this game can make you work if you want to balance good micro and macro. Thanks Ninjewtsu for the wake-up, and everyone should join the discord.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 05:52
|
|
|
yes, everyone should join the discord, playing games against other people is a lot of fun, it'd be really rad if we could get some team games going
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 06:51
|
|
|
Jossar posted:What's with the thread title? What the gently caress is this nonsense. Even as an idiot 11 year old I could figure out the pinwheel and it looks plenty neat. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 11:15
|
|
|
khwarezm posted:Well Champions best role is to kill trash, they cost a lot less gold than most other power units and don't get countered by any of the trash while having a high attack that tears through them. That's why I mentioned that militia units either show up at the very start of the game (dark age rush with militia, possibly transitioning into men at arms in the feudal age if they survive) and at the very end (trash annihilation with champions when gold starts drying up). The problem is that games often don't go on long enough to get to trash wars, so you have a massive period from Feudal to late Imperial where militia line units are almost always a bad choice, in addition to that they have so many upgrades that it can be very difficult to transition into them since it's common to get all the way to late Imperial and never upgrade even to men at arms so you have a lot of time and resources to invest to get up to Champion which makes them even less attractive. the malay basically exist to make every bad unit good lol
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 11:52
|
|
|
Autonomous Monster posted:What the gently caress is this nonsense. Even as an idiot 11 year old I could figure out the pinwheel and it looks plenty neat.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 14:51
|
|
|
Roses are red, Violets are blue. Wolololo, Now roses are too.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 16:39
|
|
|
ToxicSlurpee posted:Roses are red, 
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 19:19
|
|
|
Changing the sound effect in AoE2 was really unforgivable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7CRQU67wBw
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 19:57
|
|
|
Are there any mods around that change random map skirmishes substantially? All I'm seeing are scenarios and unit retextures, with the odd rebalance thrown in there and AI overhauls (and from the AI overhauls I've run into in other RTSes, I'm terrified of touching those). Seems to be a lack of new units, buildings, etc.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 01:32
|
|
|
Spirit of The Law just uploaded a new video, full of mathematics and trees. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkpOA1uuCkk
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 16:01
|
|
|
Spirit of the law is so good. I wish he would do more game recap stuff. It's soothing to listen to and he always has neat insights.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 22:31
|
|
|
Spirit of the law is fun to watch but some of the advice he gives for the game is kind of bad.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 22:49
|
|
|
Yeah he's 100% not a pro player and he readily admits that he does not have a great understanding of practical usage of stuff, or how various units or mechanics are intertwined. But his content will absolutely help people understand the game better in order to prepare to optimize their play.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2018 00:00
|
|
|
EDIT: Black Balloon said pretty much everything I was gonna say while I was posting, please ignore.
Jossar fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Aug 16, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2018 00:01
|
|
|
Black Balloon posted:Yeah he's 100% not a pro player and he readily admits that he does not have a great understanding of practical usage of stuff, or how various units or mechanics are intertwined. But his content will absolutely help people understand the game better in order to prepare to optimize their play. Well the problem is that he sometimes over-applies the maths and doesn't consider the realities of play and leads himself and the viewer to dodgy conclusions. This came up most notably when he made this video on when to get Wheelbarrow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptOemyCGDDQ That actually prompted Zeroempires to uncharacteristically make what was really obviously a response video, even though he was careful not to mention SotL specifically and was super nice the whole time, where he talked to theViper and showed how there's no dead set time to get wheelbarrow in actual games and it's basically entirely based on when a lull shows up in the game when it might be possible to sacrifice the resources and TC down time to get the upgrade. Unfortunately Zero took down that video for some reason so I can't show it but it kind of shows the limits of SotLs approach, he's too fixated on the numbers rather the way games actually tend to play out and though he's the most popular AoE2 youtuber he's not a great fit if you're trying to improve your game off of his advice, its better to learn about things like build orders and overall strategies like fast castle which he doesn't really cover. khwarezm fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Aug 16, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2018 00:23
|
|
|
Absolutely, totally, 100% agree. The idea is that you begin learning pretty much any competitive game by first establishing a comfortable framework to work within, so you can understand and engage certain things first in order to give context to more advanced decisions you'll end up coming across. And he is good for that. Edit: With the wheelbarrow thing specifically I think that just kinda supports everything we're both saying. From what I remember, he comes at it from a hard math standpoint, trying to find the optimum time to get it versus making more villagers without really taking much other practical opportunity cost into consideration. Naturally that's just not actually practical, but keeping certain numbers in mind from the video can at least provide you with an understanding of what it means to get the upgrade, and start you off towards understanding why you might want it at different points. Black Balloon fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Aug 16, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2018 01:28
|
|
|
More civilizations! African Kingdoms quote:Berbers What You Build: Cavalry, Camels/Camel Archers What You Pair: Skirmishers, Gunpowder Units Where You Suck: Infantry, particularly Spearline (except as a screen) Jossar's Overview: Berbers have arguably the best camels in the game and a great trash unit which they can share with everybody and are well known for doing so (you see Genitours being talked about a lot more than Condottieri, for instance), though their lack of Halberdiers hurts them somewhat. You rely heavily on speed both in general strategy (see - scout/knight rushes) and for your army composition, though you need something slower than your horses to take down buildings most of the time. Their naval bonuses are alright, but the speed thing is kind of situational compared to the bonuses that other Naval based civilizations get. In the end it usually comes down to you riding in circles around your opponents or them having a good answer to your horses. quote:Ethiopians What You Build: Archers, Siege What You Pair: Infantry Where You Suck: Cavalry, except early. Jossar's Overview: Free pikeman upgrade, strong archers and siege, and a unique unit that's quick to produce and can level Town Centers if you get enough of them in one place. What's not to like about the Ethiopians? Sure, your cavalry isn't great, but you were probably just going to use it to intercept enemy attacks on your siege (which you can do with trash anyway) or attack enemy siege and it can still do that. In the end it usually comes down to whether or not you can lay the smackdown on an opponent before they take advantage of the frailties that several of your units have. quote:Malians What You Build: Infantry What You Pair: Gunpowder Units, maybe Trash, Siege Onagers Where You Suck: Late Game Finish Jossar's Overview: Malians seem like the have a little bit of everything, but everything's also missing a little bit of something, especially near the end of the tree. So you have a great set of infantry... but there's no Halberdiers. You have good early game cavalry, but no Paladins/Hussars/Blast Furnace. You have a good Archer tree but it lacks Bracer. You have an okay siege tree, especially for Onagers, but not an exceptional one. Your unique unit feels like it's designed for hit and run rather than to clinch victory. In the end it usually comes down to whether you can kill your opponent early or leverage all the good parts into something that can take the win late. quote:Portuguese What You Build: Gunpowder Units, Navy, Archers (especially early) What You Pair: Infantry (to hold the line). Where You Suck: Late Game Dependent Jossar's Overview: Portugal can do alright early on, but their advantages tend to become more obvious the later/longer the game goes. Your economy is set for booming anyway, and the Feitorias can be useful for the long term... although they're not the end all be all until you start running out of gold. Just make sure that with all the gunpowder stuff you get that you remember to make some conventional stuff to protect them. In the end it usually comes down to whether you can field a giant gunpowder army of doom in time before you get rushed. Jossar fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Aug 16, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2018 12:14
|
|
|
Anyone else played AoE1: Definitive edition? I found if I just started playing a game against ai opponents, the ai opponents would all resign early on in the game, and after searching, I haven't found any way to stop them doing that. So I just started playing through the campaigns instead. I was surprised at getting wiped out in the tutorial campaign on normal difficulty, but after some research online I read about how the ai works in the remake, I was able to get past that point. You can change it to have 'classic' graphics, but it still uses the same ai. I just want to play the original unaltered AoE1, and have an easy way to own it legally & play it on a modern computer, without having to search for old cds.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2018 08:26
|
|
|
I've still got the old CD for AOE1 and Rise of Rome. It works perfectly fine. And the AI's very much a pain in the rear end regardless.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2018 10:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 02:13 |
|
|
greententacle posted:Anyone else played AoE1: Definitive edition? I found if I just started playing a game against ai opponents, the ai opponents would all resign early on in the game, and after searching, I haven't found any way to stop them doing that. So I just started playing through the campaigns instead. I was surprised at getting wiped out in the tutorial campaign on normal difficulty, but after some research online I read about how the ai works in the remake, I was able to get past that point.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2018 12:33
|
|