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Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

Conveniently most of those are optional. The only thing you need now is a sub and the latest expac.

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Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

Groovelord Neato posted:

Didn't the FFXI devs claim the way players finally took down Absolute Virtue wasn't legitimate and then released a video showing the "proper" way which didn't give any usable info? Coulda been Pandemonium Warden.

It was AV, and yes.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

If I had a nickel every time the state of California felt the need to intercede in a giant video game company due to lovely workplace culture, I would have 2 nickels, which isn't a lot, and I guarantee you California needs to intercede more.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

Oh my god I have never been so proud of myself for not getting into any sort of EQ.

Shared XP debt? Why? I mean, why XP debt in general, but definitely why have it be shared?

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

To contrast, raiding is fun and killing bosses makes me happy. Gear is a pretty bad reward, though, that's true.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

There's nothing stopping you from getting a group that all wants to play blind and progress through a fight together, except maybe the difficulty of finding enough people who want to play that way.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

I put it into the in-game store.

Of course now it won't accept my card for the discounted stuff which is annoying...

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

I feel like if you plan to be in early access for 2 years you're not really in early access.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

Either the default graphics options are dumb or my computer can't even run it without having half the models on screen just be silhouettes so eh.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

Cardboard Fox posted:

This definitely makes me sad. One of the best times as an MMO player 15-20 years ago was just finding random people on your server to group up with. There was an elite mob in WoW you couldn't kill yourself, but you notice a rogue also trying to kill it, so you guys group up and add each other to your friend's list.

Today everything is so pre-constructed. You need to join the official discord and see 20000 people in general chat spamming memes. How do young people even find friends in that sea of text? It probably is just me getting old and not understanding. :corsair:

I really don't see why 'this random person is doing the same thing I am so I will be friends with them' is any different from 'this random person joined when I asked for help to do this tough thing so I will be friends with them'.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

jokes posted:

Because when you stop doing Activity with them, there’s a good chance you’ll never see them ever again and that’s by design.

I've 'met' hundreds of people the old fashioned way in MMOS that I've never seen again, I don't see how this is different.


Cardboard Fox posted:

In the first example, you are traveling around the in-game world when you come across a player on your server that happens to be in your level range and doing the same group content. In the second example, you have to hop onto a third party app and find that exact player. For me, the second is not as immersive.

I suppose? But I don't think 'level ranges' or 'the same group content' are particularly immersive either.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

Maybe a video game that is designed so that you are forced to 'make friends' in order to progress can build a community, but I'm not sure if a community that is forced to exist is a great community.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

I feel like people acting that hanging out in a video game is weird and for losers in a MMO thread is strange.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

Yeah as a currently unemployed person I get 30-50 people queues in the morning and then I can keep logged in until I have to leave the house basically.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

ghostinmyshell posted:

Last night the wife and I beat Endwalker and yes it was amazing, but at the same time, I would have been fine with a single player experience/watching her play/movie because the entire xpack was jump on two seat vehicle and drive to the next plot point. We got handed our "endgame" gear during the plot and I was thinking back to the trials and tribulations of FFXI's AF gear and thinking this is so lovely :smith:

I am so sick of themepark mmos. And I know I am in the super minority these days.

If your endgame is level 89 AF gear, and you don't like that, try to do content that requires more than that?

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

Frida Call Me posted:

nah, it's simply that wow broke everyone's brains and made them come up with unbelievably stupid expectations for how an MMO should play, and they're trying to project those expectations onto FFXIV. those projections aren't fitting, so they just come up with various exceptionally weak reasons for "FFXIV bad".

I don't think it's WoW they're trying to relate FFXIV too, it's the old-fashioned Everquest stuff.

FrostyPox posted:

Plot is important but significant portions of it are told in books, not in game, IIRC. I haven't played in ages so I don't really remember tbh


Don't worry half the time the writers ignore what is in the books anyway.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

FrostyPox posted:

All i know is when I wnet back to try shadowlands, I made a new character and they were like "ok soldier, you're very important so you're going tonaccomapny Jaina on her diplomatic mission to Kul Tiras."


To this day I am only vaguely aware of who Jaina is and what Kul Tiras is.

Clearly you should have been playing since Warcraft 2.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

I think the big issue in Wintergrasp was that the WoW playerbase did not, does not, and probably never will like vehicle combat. Especially back in Wrath, when Blizzard's big vehicle push was at its strongest.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

Actually nothing is an MMO because they have yet to meet my definition of 'massively'.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

Dark Souls combat falls apart with more than, like, 2 people anyway, I don't see how it would work in a MMO setting.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

I still find it hilarious that most of the ad blurb is 'We have this comedian and he makes celebrity impressions and one-liners please buy our game'.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

No see she has exposed legs and we cannot allow this.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

OxygenO2 posted:

I would actually play this.

Well good news, they're working on one.

Name (and everything else, really...) TBD though.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

The fundamental problem of MMOs is that they are the best when lots of people play it and most 'living worlds' or 'your choices matter' or 'player driven economy' style design decisions scare people away.

Of course a group focused game should try and encourage group play but people don't like being forced to group to progress. A faction system works out until everyone wants to play on the 'dominant' faction and you get the incredibly imbalanced ratios of some of WoW's servers. And, yes, a realistic ecology system sounds cool until you get people who either want to get every skill point/gold available to murder everything or just like killing virtual animals and screwing up the whole economy.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the most popular MMOs in recent years are two games that you can play as single player games, especially since FFXIV actively forces you to play single player most of the time.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

They do, though that has its own problems (enemies respawning right after you kill them meaning you cannot meaningfully advance into, say, a cave without fighting multiple enemies at once).

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

I can't wait for WoW players to start to be nostalgic about the pre-Microsoft era.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

I think Overwatch would be cool as a single player thing which is why I am sad that Overwatch 2 may not ever come out and even if it does will probably be a mess.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

Sindai posted:

I think the starter outfits are the only ones they changed? It was very noticeably the only thing my character has ever worn that covered both legs.

Yeah, the only thing they changed was the starter outfits. Even then the OG outfits are still in game.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

It wasn't an MMO, unless you're also counting Diablo as an MMO.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

Alternatively, death resulting in exp loss is just a cheap way to encourage more playtime, and frequently leads to people not wanting to take risks, resulting in boring gameplay.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

I think removing dungeon finder is, to use a term, 'virtue signalling'. It won't actually solve any of the problems classic fans had about Wrath, and it won't actually improve the situation, but it will signal to the classic fans who dislike new things that things will be less new.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

Healing is fun because I like watching health bars go up.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

I like the idea of buffer/debuffer and controller being roles but the only MMO that I think pulled it off halfway decently was City of Heroes and they did that by not having a healer.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

Illidan was always morally ambiguous but I don't think they even gave a good reason for Illidan and friends to be evil other than 'we wanted named enemies for people to fight and these are amongst the few people on Outland people know'.

Still TBC is part of when the story went to poo poo because it was the introduction of the new Draenei, which foreshadowed all of the future retconning that Blizzard would do.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

FrostyPox posted:

I quit a bit into BC but I never understood why we were fighting Illidan. I never played WC3 but it's my understanding he was a good guy and in, like, the entirety of BC he just kinda sat in Outland brooding and doing nothing? I guess he was making GBS threads all over the Draenei which isn't cool.

Illidan wants to do good but has so many issues (most notably a desire to Be The Hero and Be Appreciated) that he causes more problems than he solved.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

You can't fool me Bezos.

Also it's simple, 'Theme Park' means 'I play a sandbox MMO and this is a MMO I dislike' and 'Sandbox' means 'I play a Theme Park MMO and this is a MMO I dislike'.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

THE BAR posted:

Having not played retail WoW in many years, this still sounds off to me. Last I played, people seemed to agree that WoW had the most intricate MMO boss battles on the market. Has that changed?

It's a matter of taste. FFXIV has a lot of great spectacle that WoW fights don't usually match, but sometimes that spectacle is blinding. As for the gameplay, FFXIV is very tightly scripted, to the point that many guides give exact timestamps for boss moves, with only the occasional random element, like who is being targetted for an ability or which of two moves coming out in sequence is first, which contrasts with WoW, which is a lot more frenzied and chaotic. Also I maintain that FFXIV healing is one of the worst in genre until you get to the very top end content because you are primarily spamming your singular attack ability since actually casting a heal is usually unnecessary, which I dislike.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

I cannot imagine that and it sounds awful.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

I said come in! posted:

How far away is the League MMO? I remember seeing that Riot started development back in 2018 - 2019.

Exceedingly. Ghotcrawler's tweet announcing it was in December of 2020, so we're like a year and a half into development.

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Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

I fuly expect the League MMO to functionally be WoW 2 so if you like WoW but want it made by people who are slightly less horrible then there's that I guess.

(It is me I want that.)

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