Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Bognar
Aug 4, 2011

I am the queen of France
Hot Rope Guy

Sachant posted:

It's very, very classic EQ-like in its mechanics

My god even from the character creation screen this feels like EQ being rendered with Minecraft graphics. I created a Dark Elf Necromancer, loaded into the world and received a Spirit of Wolf buff, then wandered into a cleric (?) area and was promptly murdered inside of town.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Bognar
Aug 4, 2011

I am the queen of France
Hot Rope Guy

Pandaal posted:

This is how Albion currently works as a "single world server". It works like this, let's take a look at this section of the world map:

...

I really wanted to like Albion. It seems like they did a ton of stuff right with the economic interactions tying into risky gameplay and reinforcing a player backed economy. Things like the black market are also SUPER interesting:

https://wiki.albiononline.com/wiki/Black_Market

quote:

The Black Market, located in Caerleon, is an essential component of the Albion Online economy. The market is where the world’s mobs get their loot from. As the need for dropped items increase or decreases, so does the price the Black Market merchant buys them for.

Whenever a mob is killed, there is a chance a buy order is generated for the Black Market. Once there are a certain number of active buy orders for an item, the Black Market will start increasing the price of the item. This means that everything on the Black Market is directly linked to players’ actions in the open world.

I played it for a couple months and I was forcing it for probably half that because I wanted to enjoy it, but the inner loop of the game just didn't feel that exciting to me and I can't find the words to explain why.

Bognar
Aug 4, 2011

I am the queen of France
Hot Rope Guy

Ignoring the screenshots, this article reads like it could have been written yesterday.

edit: lol except for this

quote:

Once everybody has moved to console games, due to their stability and lack of patches, I'm sure all you arrogant business clowns who keep pushing out unfinished lumps of poo poo can have a meeting and wonder how the industry got to the way it currently is. When I buy a console game, I can safely expect to take it out of its packaging and begin playing it the instant I get it.

Bognar fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Aug 27, 2022

Bognar
Aug 4, 2011

I am the queen of France
Hot Rope Guy

Phigs posted:

Nothing I said makes a persistent world impossible.

Imagine an MMO "Battle Royale" where the world doesn't restart constantly and instead people and places respawn over time and there is no dwindling circle. People spawn in without items and they're tasked with quickly finding their items and maybe even leveling up their characters. Then you've got resources around that you gather the same way as your gear, and you can kill players to get a % of the resources they've gathered and their gear. Every player dies after a certain amount of time and has to respawn just like as if they died. They can also get to special locations on the map to bank their full resources and respawn. The resources you gather pay for a meta progression that gives you better/different starting characters/items or lets you level up into different specs or make different gear or whatever. The characters can be your clones or summons or something like that.

The world persists, the characters don't. Or keep the characters and just reset their gear. Or whatever, this is just a quick idea to illustrate a possibility, not a game pitch. :banjo:

Point is this way you focus on making a game that is fun to regear/relevel because players are expected to do it always, and nobody loses anything beyond a % of gathered resources on death because they were going to lose all that anyway. I think a central problem of PVP in a lot of MMOs is you have a game where players want to make vertical progress and then somehow expect them to be okay with someone coming along and setting them backwards on that progress. Ideally you'd want to somehow make a game where the consequences of being killed are themselves desirable, that it is part of the gameplay loop such that players would be wanting to engage in it if they like the game.

This is how I wish Sea of Thieves worked.

Bognar
Aug 4, 2011

I am the queen of France
Hot Rope Guy

CuddleCryptid posted:

The issue with that is that the tight view of the top down game is *why* it's possible to run the war like it does. Otherwise building infrastructure would be impossible once someone got a good rifle and a vantage point unless you made some honest to God 30 mile deep WW1 style trench networks.

Hell Let Loose is not Foxhole, but it has some semblances of infrastructure management and lots of emergent mechanics around setting your own spawn points and hunting down enemy spawn points, while still being primarily a first-person shooter with 50v50 games on large maps. I'm having a lot of fun with it at least.

Bognar
Aug 4, 2011

I am the queen of France
Hot Rope Guy
I know you said not WoW or FF14, but honestly if loneliness is the thing you're trying to counter then I think an established regular casual raiding guild in either of those games is the ticket. Lots of old(-style) MMOs try to encourage social interaction via game mechanics in the world, but modern MMO raiding is an easy excuse to join an in-group of people and make internet friends.

Bognar
Aug 4, 2011

I am the queen of France
Hot Rope Guy

CuddleCryptid posted:

Honestly I disagree with this, smaller guilds are the best way to find internet friends. The issue with larger guilds is that a guild with 1000 active members or whatever is really no different than trade chat on the server itself, and you could friend random people in PUGs just as much as one of untold numbers you happen to guild with. There's just so much noise.

Since guild level mechanics in games like WoW functionally demand huge populations to farm points the problem with bloat gets even worse.

Ultimately if you want people to play with and it doesn't really matter who then large guilds are the ticket, although you can generally get that out of pugs. But if you want the kind of friendships that are in Your Favorite MMO Anime (It's "Recovery of a MMO Junkie") then small is good. Just not so small that everyone is constantly offline.

I understand that soul sickness though, and I really wonder if that kind of experience exists anymore. I hope around games too much to really get a single game friend group going and all my IRL friends are much slower paced at games than I am so I get frustrated. The closest would have been back when I mainlined WoW back on Wrath days.

I can't really put my finger on how things have changed other than to say that pugging is a lot easier, but in terms of online friendships I guess it could come back to the idea that with constant connectivity through apps like discord then, idk. No one can be happy to see you if you never actually leave.

That's why I specifically called out casual. Modern WoW has pretty much all content available as 10-person groups and has flexible raid difficulty so it doesn't matter if you bring a few extra people along or lose a couple for the night. I got sucked into the latest expansion hype cycle for a few months and met some chill people in a small guild to do normal raids with, then ended up playing a bunch of other non-WoW games with that group too like League of Legends and Valheim. Not everything has to be a monster guild clusterfuck. For a lot of casual raiders it's just their third place and you'll be accepted quickly if you hang around and be pro-social.

Bognar
Aug 4, 2011

I am the queen of France
Hot Rope Guy

Ibram Gaunt posted:

This makes me remember the insane cope from people who thought Vanilla was way harder than it actually was when people cleared MC in like level 40 greens the week it launched or w/e.

Vanilla was way harder because I wasn't just fighting Ragnaros, I was also fighting my frame rate.

Bognar
Aug 4, 2011

I am the queen of France
Hot Rope Guy

Sachant posted:

BitCraft alpha early next year. Trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUxM9fPK1KU

quote:

work together with others to build a new civilization in a single, editable wilderness

So this is just gonna be covered in cocks then?

Bognar
Aug 4, 2011

I am the queen of France
Hot Rope Guy

kedo posted:

This was, unfortunately, my experience with the last Evercraft Online stress test as well. I'm ashamed that I never played EQ (I was consumed by UO and then WoW), so I don't know if I just lack the foundational knowledge the devs expect, or if the games are just poorly designed for new players at this point. I spent way too much time just trying to figure out controls and systems.

(disclosure: I'm on the EverCraft dev team)

The last stress test was a while ago so it's probably not fresh in your mind, but if anything was particularly difficult I'd love for you to drop by the discord and leave some feedback. We have a handful of plans about making the new player experience more instructional and less EQ-style "drop you in a foreign world with a tattered robe and a pat on the back". However, the entire dev team is full of nostalgic EQ brain worms and often doesn't notice the sharp edges, so we love to hear fresh player experiences to know what needs attention.

Bognar fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Nov 15, 2023

Bognar
Aug 4, 2011

I am the queen of France
Hot Rope Guy

shirunei posted:

I would only like to join this discord so I can lead a coup against your blunting ideas! If the world isn't an unforgiving land full of death what incentive will there be for players to band together?

That is basically the world design ideal, coupled with each class ideally having something unique to bring to a group composition. However throwing that hostility at level 1 players who are also struggling with old school MMO mechanics is a recipe to have people bounce off the game.

My take is that it takes a few hours of play (ideally grouped) to start to appreciate the slower pace of advancement and inherent danger of the world, but that also means people need to not get fed up 30 minutes in.

Bognar
Aug 4, 2011

I am the queen of France
Hot Rope Guy
Any details on what makes it different from Albion Online? I really really wanted to like Albion, like it has everything I think I should find interesting in a medieval PvP sandbox economy game but somehow I just couldn't get into it.

Bognar
Aug 4, 2011

I am the queen of France
Hot Rope Guy
I'm really bored by instanced housing, like I never understood the appeal. If I want to build something I want to build it in some changing world that is occupied by other people. I figure game developers should overprovision the amount of buyable land to avoid shortages.

While we're at it, I want to see an MMO go full Georgism and start taxing land rents at their market value. Most games still have a land-grabber's advantage with fixed rent costs that over time become less meaningful as the economy inflates. This could also be a way to combat currency inflation in MMOs.

Bognar
Aug 4, 2011

I am the queen of France
Hot Rope Guy

Third World Reagan posted:

you then have to put in another system to stop people from land speculation

which you have a hard time actually solving

That was exactly the point of a land value tax, they're tailor made to prevent speculation by making speculating costly. Maintenance cost of land should rise with its market value. As for how to establish "market value" in a game instead of just being lazy as a developer and setting a flat price, the simplest way is a blind auction system with bid costs and up-front payment (to prevent oversubscribing bids or bid griefing), then base rents off a percentage of the average auction cost in a given area.

I should note that this is not something for every game. If you're building a PvE pro-social MMO then sure have instanced housing who cares, it's a checkbox feature for a certain kind of player. But if you're a building a sandbox PvPvE crafting economy-focused MMO, then there's a significantly deeper sense of immersion gained from everything being in the world instead of sequestered off into instances. Land is also often a useful resource like any other where you can use it for certain kinds of crafting/farming or use its location for setting up a shop, therefore it should also have an effective market instead of having the same flat fee everywhere and incentivizing land grabs.

Bognar
Aug 4, 2011

I am the queen of France
Hot Rope Guy

Blacula posted:

Sim Tower: The MMO!

I don't even know what this would be but now I want to play it. Sim Tower hooked me hard when I was young.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Bognar
Aug 4, 2011

I am the queen of France
Hot Rope Guy

Ruggan posted:

EverCraft Online is having a full-weekend alpha test starting in a few hours.

There's a thread over this way: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4018831

I've enjoyed the few community alphas they've run so far, and I'll probably be dropping in for some of this weekend's event. Game is heavily inspired by EQ, and IMO is in a much better state than Monsters & Memories. It's also much much more approachable for new players / those without overwhelming nostalgia for EQ. The voxel (minecraft-y) art is definitely a love-it or hate-it thing, but even if you don't like it in screenshots, you might very well be surprised by how decent it looks in-game - don't let that put you off.

Also, shoutout to Bognar, who is a fellow goon and is on their dev team.

Thanks for taking over advertising! I had to miss this alpha test unfortunately due to some prior plans, but I made sure to help load test before disappearing. We only load tested 500 concurrent players but we ended up with 600 during the alpha so I'm glad everything mostly turned out okay. The dev team had internal bets going on concurrent player count and I think the highest was 420.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply