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Came up in the New World thread: The way to make an open world survival MMO work long-term is to make it periodically reset, like Path of Exile does.
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May 3, 2022 04:09
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Can someone give me a rundown on, say, Sandbox MMO versus Theme Park MMO? Those are just two terms I've heard now and then and maybe there's other categories. ESO is what I heard referred to as a Theme Park MMO back in the day and never played it beyond the first area to know what that meant, but got maybe a hint. I don't know what I've played that falls into one or the other or both (EQ, XI, XIV, ESO ... Rose Online? ... New World) but I'd like to learn what opinions folks have about traits of either or others. Ranzear fucked around with this message at 12:30 on May 11, 2022 |
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May 11, 2022 12:28
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Hellioning posted:Also it's simple, 'Theme Park' means 'I play a sandbox MMO and this is a MMO I dislike' and 'Sandbox' means 'I play a Theme Park MMO and this is a MMO I dislike'. This was the impression I sorta started with but some good posts here regarding sliding scales and whatnot too. Also entirely forgot I played Galaxies. cmdrk posted:I’m working on something halfway between that and BYOND. Built from the ground up, more focused on getting some decent network/backend code in place. I want to make it easy to spin up your own realm or discover other people’s content. Been working on an SS13 styled game engine in rust off and on if you wanna hmu with what you've got so far. We're pretty locked in on a single concept but a bunch of my code should adapt to any sort of tile based stuff.
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May 12, 2022 17:06
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30.5 Days posted:Also, why isometric? UO inspiration I'm sure, but it's a giant initial pain in the rear end for users learning whether up goes left or left goes left. Rendering is okay, just a visual transform. I've thought about doing a 'partial iso' where it's not a 45 degree rotation but maybe like 20 degrees so up is still up, and this also simplifies basic z-ordering but partial tile ordering is still necessary. Maybe I'll pop over to the cobol projects subforum and make a thread for whatever I'm deciding to work on. I have both the tile based SS13-esque project and a more analog 2D collision based project on the back burners. Edit: I suppose it's called 'trimetric projection' or at least that particular one has some nice math and other alignment benefits. Double edit: Yeah, have investigated this before - A well calculated trimetric projection lends to an equal number of vertical squares as horizonal squares in a 16:9 window while well enough preserving aspect ratio of the standees compared to using 16:9 rectangular tiles in a square projection. Ranzear fucked around with this message at 06:56 on May 13, 2022 |
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May 13, 2022 06:42
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Ort posted:Meaningful loot is awesome, FFXI is a good example of a game still doing this. It feels worthwhile and you have a connection to your gear rather than just being stat sticks. I have most of an entire inventory in my house dedicated to every cool-rear end-lookin' Scythe I ever used on Dark Knight, plus some Greatswords too.
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Jun 23, 2022 04:40
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Jonny 290 posted:* arr through 2.0 starts weak and ends AMAZING. the end cutscenes were well worth the expensive scotch i poured while i watched it roll out Concurring 100% with this. And then you hit endgame and all that seeming complexity in gearing for stats and substats turns out to be a lie and only ilvl matters. That's why I went back to the equipment swapping insanity of FFXI recently.
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Aug 6, 2022 01:10
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High level XI gameplay is using Lua scripting to change 12-16 pieces of equipment two or even three times per ability or spell. Swap in equipment to cast faster > Start casting > Swap in equipment that boosts the spell accuracy and effect > Spell casting goes off > Swap back into idle or auto-attacking set. All on a spell that might take half a second to execute. It's optimization heaven.
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Aug 6, 2022 02:39
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When was the last time you played? Spellcast and its replacement Gearswap have been utilized by serious players since Treasures (2006) at the latest. Yes it could be done with in-game macros, but those don't reach the same precision and versatility, like accounting for day of the week for what belt to wear for a given spell or changing gear based on your pet using abilities.
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Aug 6, 2022 03:14
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Itzena posted:FFXIV is a Final Fantasy game that happens to be an MMO, where FFXI is an MMO that's sort of Final Fantasy-ish. It does more strongly follow the FF Tactics job concept than XIV though. And I'm gonna disagree on the other point too. It's more like a MUD that happens to have a 3D renderer, down to the auto-attack system.
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Aug 7, 2022 01:13
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XI has a lot more differences and flavor between jobs. In XIV a tank is a tank and a dps is a dps and it's strictly enforced by the content, and even at the top end there's no real gating of magical vs physical or slash/blunt/pierce and definitely none of that tied to being on x or y job, all mostly because of roulette pickup stuff. XI plays with this at times and will straight up halve or absorb your damage in some instances. XI is a lot more buff dependent too, more than just having buffs but stacking the right buffs. My DRK with mild buffs would outdamage my DRG, but with max proper buffs my DRG will just wipe the floor with just about anything not wearing vastly superior gear (Shining One is plain stupid busted on its own). Support jobs (BRD, COR, GEO) really are force multipliers and that's what I meant about playing more like classic FF than being a bunch of people who just pop their skills and faceroll a rotation and barely interact with each other. Brass posted:That's a great point about it being more of a MUD, which I think is why I love it so much. I thought that up as a joke in the moment but it sure does make sense huh?
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Aug 7, 2022 06:53
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If there's a goon resurgence to FFXI can y'all gather on Siren please? Asura is a loving nightmare hellscape outside of instanced content and even still with the queues for that content. Chill servers are just better.
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Aug 9, 2022 02:24
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jokes posted:Asura is where all the people are though, right? Too many. Like at least 2x the active players of the biggest servers of the past. Old but still relevant poo poo like abyssea drops for ochain/dharp were hard camped 24/7 in all three zones. Even getting a ??? to pop escha nms was a chore and would be hotly contested within the hour. Established players don't have much issue because they'll only run instanced stuff and the double edge is new players won't notice the congestion until it's too late. It's also, of course, where the most toxic dipshits congregate too. Any player that exclusively wants to be on the biggest server is not a player you want to play XI with. There is no worthwhile benefit unless you buy gil to merc everything. Ranzear fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Aug 9, 2022 |
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Aug 9, 2022 03:53
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jokes posted:Why siren, then? I would be concerned nobody would be selling items I want/need on lower pop servers It's just where I'm back to and where all my Diabolos peeps merged and has one of the oldest social ls in the game (Silmarillion). It's not the smallest server and anything you might care to buy from AH either requires Sp3 or higher (read: 40+ hours post-99 grinding) or costs 50mil wherever you end up just by rarity of HQ against NPC sourced mats; everything else (food, meds) is just sold on the cheap by a flying rat once you finish RoV and before then just ask and someone will stock you up. Real gear comes from content. It was the ambuscade queue that made asura so bad. That's the entry-level content now but has a solid grind with a monthly reset. A 20-30 minute queue really messes up what is usually a six minute fight and four minute runback that you're gonna do 30+ times to finish a few capes and stack some mats. I also just wanted to finish my ochain but seeing the same bot-crawling group camping both my targets for three days was just obnoxious.
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Aug 9, 2022 16:00
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As usual I'm inclined to go slam some rust together and think about how much I can get away with super variable tick rates and non-persistent zone contents and whatnot, but what I kinda wanna do right now is a writeup on Progression versus Acquisition systems and why mixing them is probably okay for PvE but bad for PvP. Short version: Acquiring, as in gear, is not the same as Progressing, as in level up mechanics. Attempting to mix these in a PvP context is where major friction happens. Note how battle royale games are strictly about acquisition while PvE MMOs don't really mix them as much as require progression before acquisition. PvP tends to be the same progression+acquisition target as whatever top-tier raid of a PvE game demands, while Gear/Level Sync systems to make open world PvP more fair is mostly just undercutting the value of both, or maybe in some cases PvP has its own progression and acquisition that feels like a whole extra load of work that might as well be a separate game entirely. This line can get really blurry with like steadily-accumulating-currency-to-gear systems but I think there's a nice basis to knock out a few pages of speculation and case study. Mostly obvious concepts but it's always fun to sit down and organize thoughts.
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Aug 15, 2022 18:12
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I'm sure latency correction isn't completely foreign to MMOs. There could be complications with game complexity and implementing state rewind for inputs and whatnot but imma tell you it's way more about laziness than it not being possible. Lacking any client side forward-sim is also just laziness but can and does look jank at low tick rates without a lot of blending.
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Aug 18, 2022 20:15
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Kaysette posted:turns autorun on, immediately consumed My unposted joke was that autorun would be without rhythm.
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Aug 24, 2022 01:20
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Bless 2: Electric Boogaloo Actually I'd respect that choice.
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Sep 2, 2022 20:09
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Hell, there are entire bands with matching outfits that rove from server to server.
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Sep 7, 2022 23:49
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Million poly avatars were never a huge problem in VRC, it was always drawcall count from multiple materials and meshes as people just slapped MMD parts together without any merging or optimization. We bitched at them for years about their silly 20k triangle limit. Anymore there are performance metrics per avatar that people will just autoblock with. VRC crashing is more intentional with a shotgunning of shader/particle exploit to crash any of various different GPU architectures at once, with a ton of extra layers like crashing in a way that can't generate and send a report and get the crash method found out. Still hilarious to see some annoying fucker just get yeeted from the game. Ranzear fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Sep 21, 2022 |
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Sep 21, 2022 22:10
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Been spitballing a pvp flagging and loot system for a while now. Gist of it is a maze running game (zelda rooms) where you can be completely solo (blue), co-op pvp (yellow), or agro pvp (red).
There will likely be a loot/progression bonus of some kind on the PvE side of things for being yellow and even more for red, but that's the divisions I like for now. Thoughts? Ranzear fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Sep 25, 2022 |
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Sep 25, 2022 03:27
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LLSix posted:What are players supposed to do while waiting around for door timers? Blue players especially, are going to be upset if they can be forced to do nothing for extended periods of time just because someone else went through a door before them. There are nonplayer enemies in each room too. There are multiple doors to a room, but only the door one just came from closes so one can't just backtrack out of the room immediately. Similar to Binding of Isaac or something, but just the one door is closed. Yellows would probably have the shortest lock time so they have an easier time sticking together but are also more easily pursued by reds. Reds would have a longer lock time to prevent pursuit. Blues kinda don't interact with it the same way but it could be even longer to force them more towards the PvE in front of them each room. There should be enough doors and movement speed from room to room to be able to cut someone off, especially if you know the parallel rooms are already cleared. There's an entirely separate PvP system aside from these flags that is the secret sauce of the game and blue will still interact with, I just like having opt-in pvp and even opt-in high-risk full loot. Ranzear fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Sep 26, 2022 |
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Sep 26, 2022 02:05
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Phigs posted:Imagine an MMO "Battle Royale" where the world doesn't restart constantly and instead people and places respawn over time and there is no dwindling circle. People spawn in without items and they're tasked with quickly finding their items and maybe even leveling up their characters. This is basically the mixed PvE/PvP maze game I'm working on that I pitched PvP divisions for a page or two back, except the maze seed resets daily too. Whatever tokens or currency or gathered in a previous run can be (use or lose it, Rogue Legacy style) spent to take unlocked items in with you, but unlocking an item for later purchase requires bringing it back to a safe area which could be quite a trek from a boss for instance. If I wasn't already ankle deep in it I'd be stealing your idea though, yeah.
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Oct 11, 2022 01:41
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I'll look that up, thanks!
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Oct 13, 2022 00:58
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Or it's poor automation, like daily work to clear logs and consulate database stuff and other busywork people made for themselves to look important, and once the game had launched half those people got sacked and still nobody knows how to keep the game from imploding when they push even a tiny update.
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Nov 8, 2022 05:14
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I'm not quite getting that New World vibe that I think would be the better parallel, but I get it.
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Nov 11, 2022 17:09
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Was Cube World ever totally resurrected? I think I was in the beta before the dude just disappeared for a while. Who knows if I still have a valid key or something.
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Nov 25, 2022 19:42
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Okay I do sorta remember that now. I just liked finding seeds that had wildly high level bosses and cheesing them for stupid op gear. Could make a fun gameplay loop just on its own if there was a way to destroy/obsolete things.
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Nov 25, 2022 20:32
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30.5 Days posted:*funcom design meeting* so yeah, it's a sci fi setting so i figure instead of the slaves we can just have intelligent robots, easy peasy, good chat everyone! I greatly appreciated your lore joke if nobody else mentioned.
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Dec 18, 2022 01:10
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Truga posted:people wiping a couple times on an old trial/dungeon/raid you got in roulette that rarely comes up happens often and is also a non-issue though? Because it tends to be hilarious, but also sprouts are clearly marked. Those only come up in roulette because somebody guaranteed to be new to the fight needs it. Also nobody will ever care about wiping if they get to see the sprout tank do the Suzano minigame. Pigbottom posted:That matrix mmo was pretty cool actually. too bad the setting got old pretty quick. It was also canon and killed off Morpheus.
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Jan 17, 2023 08:28
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jokes posted:They want you to play the newest stuff and only the newest stuff. Which is at odds with the story and setting being one long timeline, with major callbacks to Warcraft 3, Vanilla, etc. I find this a hair, just barely, more preferable to having to mash through the old stuff to play the new stuff (or else pay  and be narratively out of the loop as already discussed.)I do enjoy blasting through XIV's story content, but then I'll get to some side storyline I think is neat and ... it's dead raid content nobody should be wasting any time on.
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Feb 3, 2023 04:54
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I and my comrade revisit Batmud twice a decade or so. We might be due actually.
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Feb 6, 2023 03:44
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cmdrk posted:Let’s remake classic EverQuest together in this thread. Except each person gets to change one thing about it. The only class is monk.
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Feb 16, 2023 09:31
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Wait... This is just a Mortal Kombat MMO isn't it?
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Feb 16, 2023 23:22
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I'm still bashing my head into a netcode model with adaptive rollback and tick rate that it might run fighting games just as well as mmos and now I have an application for it?
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Feb 17, 2023 00:19
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It's it scandalous to suggest retail FFXI? Learning what jobs can do what content is a hell of a thing is all. 'Decades of experience' sounded like a joke at first, then I saw it was currentYear and did the math. Also: Get some help with directx wrappers and windower and stuff to make the game painless. Ranzear fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Feb 19, 2023 |
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Feb 19, 2023 01:45
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Full tenkey keyboard is mandatory. None of this 60% poo poo. Numpad movement with thumb on arrow key camera controls does start to make sense but the game isn't very position based to start with anyway. Compact mode activates wasd too but lets one use either. Wide and accurate macro usage is more important and suffers on controller too, way beyond what XIV ever needs for bindings. Getting certain jobs to work adequately on controller is gonna need the nerdy Lua automation I love so much.
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Feb 19, 2023 07:59
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Tism the Dragon Tickler posted:It is just a single anecdote but the woman I know who works at riot has mentioned fairly recently that the culture is better there nowadays. Can also relay an anecdote about improvements. But that doesn't mean they don't produce milquetoast ultranormie games.
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Mar 10, 2023 23:42
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Mar 16, 2023 00:13
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Diablo 3 console multiplayer was the loving bomb other than when anyone needed to menu. One screen, four players. Basically BG: Dark Alliance with better combat. It's wild to me still that the console version leaving a ton of poo poo out made it so much better.
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Mar 19, 2023 23:04
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LuckyCat posted:Are there any classes in a “modern” MMO that is a healer which heals the group by doing damage to the mobs? Closest I’ve ever come in a game was Chloromancer in Rift. XI's Dancer was supposed to be this, gaining TP with attacks and being able to heal with it, but like every job in XI it got mutated into something else because that game was always fantastic about letting stuff flex into roles they didn't think of. Turns out giving something massive resource gain to have it available for healing or buffing or whatever just turns it into a total burst machine by using that resource in the conventional way, because who needs healing when the mob dies in one combo.
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Apr 11, 2023 01:31
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