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ricdesi
Mar 18, 2014

Does it really need saying?

Alxprit posted:

It's kind of weird, but if you search "general tips" for the randomizer they mention doing the dash BONK jump there. It's definitely not how the devs intended you to get in but it's an extremely simple trick to pull off once you get it down.

We've even found a few new ways to use it in not-so-randomized games ;)

Polsy posted:

The map 2 overworld seems pretty close to 'we moved some of the walls around but otherwise things are the same' but at least they messed around with the dungeons.

Yeah, the overall world map is more or less split into the same pieces, but with each piece being reconstructed in ways that at least tweak how you have to get places. The dungeons being totally different are a nice touch though, keeps this thing going and keeps it surprising.

Part 5: "Burn Down the Dungeons" | Week 2: Level 4, vs. Digdogger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-KmNhUqgHo

Part 6: "This Is How Relaxing Works" | Week 2: Level 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAQQqqvPsis

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ricdesi
Mar 18, 2014

Does it really need saying?
What's that? We're halfway through the old Zelda cartoon and there hasn't been an "evil twin" storyline yet? Oh gently caress, yeah let's fix that pronto.

The Legend of Zelda, Episode 7: "Doppelganger"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDN8rPIbxag

The Legend of Zelda, Episode 8: "Underworld Connections"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_O4NgHCKlk

ricdesi
Mar 18, 2014

Does it really need saying?
Slightly MIA over the past week, since I've been prepping for my first-ever 24-hour stream -- on Saturday I'm going to be participating in Extra Life 2018 by playing Super Mario Odyssey from midnight to midnight (EDT) with the aim of 100%ing it, and I'll be raising money for Boston Children's Hospital! If anyone's interested in checking that out, I'll be streaming from our Twitch channel at http://twitch.tv/dpadFM, and some more details can be found at the video below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wI0Gryk6WE

As for BS The Legend of Zelda, we seem to be making some solid progress, but a few bits of the original game's lore are starting to come a bit undone...

Part 7: "Did I Poison the Meat?" | Week 3: Level 5, vs. Patra
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL0VRPejqAY

Part 8: "All the Hearts" | Week 3: Level 6, vs. Gohma
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ue49wwCcNDM

Part 9: "Revenge for Breath of the Wild" | [b]Week 3: Level 6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMk5vIQoEDU

Seraphic Neoman
Jul 19, 2011


Btw Rick if you want a challenge, do enemizer keysanity. That's when it gets really :suicide:ROMHACKZ:suicide:

ricdesi
Mar 18, 2014

Does it really need saying?

SSNeoman posted:

Btw Rick if you want a challenge, do enemizer keysanity. That's when it gets really :suicide:ROMHACKZ:suicide:

Oof god, I'd love to take less than a full year to get through it, though ;)

Slowly waking up from our 25-hour Super Mario Odyssey run, and cartoons are just what my brain needs right now...

The Legend of Zelda, Episode 9: "Stinging a Stinger"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3W1rH8CZRzU

The Legend of Zelda, Episode 10: "Hitch in the Works"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDex7XxBcho

Ryushikaze
Mar 5, 2013

SSNeoman posted:

Btw Rick if you want a challenge, do enemizer keysanity. That's when it gets really :suicide:ROMHACKZ:suicide:

INVERTED enemizer keysanity.

I can get 'normal' keysanity runs to about 4 hours, but the entrance randomizer, enemizer, and Metroid/LTTP randomizers make me go WTF

ricdesi
Mar 18, 2014

Does it really need saying?

Ryushikaze posted:

INVERTED enemizer keysanity.

I can get 'normal' keysanity runs to about 4 hours, but the entrance randomizer, enemizer, and Metroid/LTTP randomizers make me go WTF

Super Metroid + A Link to the Past is such a bizarre format, it's fascinating to me. I honestly have been considering trying just some crazy balls-to-the-wall setup sometime just for the hell of it, we may see!

I have no idea why the thumbnails are all weirdly small, I wonder if the Zelda videos' PNG files have some kind of data hanging outside the normal boundaries, and YouTube is picking up on that? Weird, I'll look into it, but before that, let's close out BS Zelda, MAP 2!

Part 10: "Needledick! Needledick! Needledick!" | Week 4: Level 7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wms1aDfO1nA

Part 11: "I Could Go Down for That" | Week 4: Level 7, vs. Aquamentus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HzmQkuPFk8

Part 12: "Not That Door, The Actual Door" | Week 4: Level 8, vs. Gohma, vs. Ganon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2MhTJpVq0o

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006

z3+m3 rando is super annoying to play if you're not immersed in its community because the 2 games have very different skill floors. You can brute force your way through Zelda 3 without really knowing anything about how to run it. Metroid 3 rando likes to make you do near frame perfect poo poo just to get out of the starting area and then give you hand cramps from single wall jumping everywhere.

ricdesi
Mar 18, 2014

Does it really need saying?

dis astranagant posted:

z3+m3 rando is super annoying to play if you're not immersed in its community because the 2 games have very different skill floors. You can brute force your way through Zelda 3 without really knowing anything about how to run it. Metroid 3 rando likes to make you do near frame perfect poo poo just to get out of the starting area and then give you hand cramps from single wall jumping everywhere.

Valid, I have super little experience with Super Metroid, so it sounds like that's a huge no until or unless I spend some serious time getting that game down by heart.

As for the Zelda cartoon, I have to say, they really decided to go out with a decidedly weird BANG. These have to be the strangest episodes in the series, I'm not sure if they were angling for some kind of hook to help get a second season going, or if they already knew it was over and decided to get real weird with their last minutes of show.

The Legend of Zelda, Episode 11: "Fairies in the Spring"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvdstfig1Cc

The Legend of Zelda, Episode 12: "The Missing Link"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOnKHlPpnxw

The Legend of Zelda, Episode 13: "The Moblins Are Revolting"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6DV8ctKhSU

Polsy
Mar 23, 2007

I think I'd only seen the first episode of this before you started, and I'm not feeling like I really missed much. Well, now I know.

ricdesi
Mar 18, 2014

Does it really need saying?
Yeah, the old Zelda cartoon was... strange. And not very involved. It was basically the lowest-common denominator of all the other "heroic" 80s cartoons, but with a lot less impressive stuff happening. No real wonder why it didn't get a second wave of thirteen.

Now while we're all done with BS The Legend of Zelda, we're not quite done with the Satellaview just yet. See, in the spring of 1997, St.GIGA and Nintendo set up another broadcast, this time based on A Link to the Past, this time directly acknowledging the original game and setting itself an equal-to-real-life six years after. Now, while Ocarina of Time was still a year and a half away, Link's Awakening had already been out since 1993 (in fact, the gap between said game and Ocarina marks the longest gap between games that the franchise ever saw).

Suggesting a connection to both early-90s titles, Link has departed from Hyrule on another adventure, leaving the Hero of Light (the menu character from BS-X) to come save the country from a new attack by Ganon. It's... actually a pretty solid game, to be dead-honest. It would make a great DLC pack in a modern setting, but alas. This is BS The Legend of Zelda: Ancient Stone Tablets!

And of course, since we liked this game, the recording is deeply CURSED. We experienced just about every single issue we have ever faced / could ever face. For Week 1, due to trying to deal with several later issues, we entirely lose Ben's commentary audio! I did the best I could reconstructing it from cranked-up audio on John's mic, but obviously for everyone's eardrums' sake that meant scaling it back when John talks. Fortunately, while Ben only stuck around for two episodes and that is sad, it does mean no more horrific audio tweaking to make it function from Part 3 on.

Part 1: "It's Gold and Recovers" | Week 1: Level 1, vs. Armos Knights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhpX13sM_Wk

Part 2: "A Thick gently caress Appeared" | Week 1: Level 1, Level 2, vs. Moldorm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr8CcvK_dJc

Part 3: "One Second of Joy" | Week 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGMGaNVG0mY

ricdesi
Mar 18, 2014

Does it really need saying?
As we slide on into the second week, we're starting to see how this game separates out its weeks. It feels a little less contrived than the first BS Zelda, though maybe it's the text on the bottom that helps drive the "plot" along. I really do wish they'd stop telling me about the constant sales, it's starting to feel more like local radio than the guy trying to psychically find the thing to save the world.

Unfortunately, this is where the crux of our technical issues fell. We had an audio error in one episode, a video error in another, and trying to fix all this took up so much space that it was what axed Ben's audio in the earlier videos. Thankfully from Part 7 on, it's pretty much solid.

Part 4: "As I Haunt Your Toilet" | Week 2: Level 3, vs. Helmasaur King
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woqwMF3zN_Q

Part 5: "A Normal-Timed Person" | Week 2: Level 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iQ-xVUHfs4

Part 6: "Puzzle & Enemy" | Week 2: Level 4, vs. Arrghus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YroGc_j9JVQ

ricdesi fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Nov 15, 2018

ricdesi
Mar 18, 2014

Does it really need saying?
Okay, so we're out of the weeds with recording errors at long last. I gotta be honest, with the Switch's NES Online going strong so far, with a couple "bonus" variants in the mix, it would be neat if (when the SNES Online inevitably comes along) there were some form of re-release (or re-broadcast, in some way?) of Ancient Stone Tablets. It feels like a solid DLC for the original game, we were definitely not expecting to enjoy this as much as we are!

Part 7: "3% Cartoon Evil Rat King" | Week 3: Level 5, vs. Lanmolas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8KcaT3tUCk

Part 8: "Everyone's Favorite Dungeon: The Sand One" | Week 3: Level 6, vs. Mothula
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLLdAguPqeY

Part 9: "An Ingenious Dungeon or a Total Mess" | Week 3: Level 6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK54p4woqwo

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

That's honestly a pretty solid suggestion. I doubt that Nintendo would go through with it, if they wanted to actually recreate it as faithfully as possible, though. First let's see if they actually do put SNES games on Switch.

The LP has been great, by the way. A lot of smart plays, a lot of funny moments...

Polsy
Mar 23, 2007

I was wondering if they had some sort of deal with Satellaview to never release them separately but wikipedia informs me they rereleased the BS Fire Emblem game, so I guess it's possible.

ricdesi
Mar 18, 2014

Does it really need saying?

Alxprit posted:

That's honestly a pretty solid suggestion. I doubt that Nintendo would go through with it, if they wanted to actually recreate it as faithfully as possible, though. First let's see if they actually do put SNES games on Switch.

Polsy posted:

I was wondering if they had some sort of deal with Satellaview to never release them separately but wikipedia informs me they rereleased the BS Fire Emblem game, so I guess it's possible.

This could be really interesting, I had no idea any of the BS games saw the light of day again after their initial broadcast, so this does leave just the tiniest glimmer of hope that something could come of this (even though Nintendo's had 20 years to and hasn't).

The ending of the game, despite the rest moving at a pretty brisk pace, definitely slows to a bit of a crawl... Well, let's exercise our patience and take out the big guy one more time.

Part 10: "Link, It Was Kappa Again" | Week 4: Level 7, vs. Kholdstare
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR2Nfy9ctDU

Part 11: "What Color Is Third?" | Week 4: Level 8, vs. Trinexx
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCjE2dALhLo

Part 12: "Waiting for Death" | Week 4: Dark World, vs. Ganon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_6OaC0YX2I

Alxprit posted:

The LP has been great, by the way. A lot of smart plays, a lot of funny moments...

Ay, thank you! I'm pumped that we managed to get through it on our first try, this was a surprisingly enjoyable game. So far, definitely the winner of A Terrible Fate, but we shall see as we continue onward...

Carbon dioxide
Oct 9, 2012

You commented a couple times on the size of rooms and the camera movements being weird.

Well, I don't know about BS Zelda but I know how this works in the original LttP and it seems to be a good assumption that this uses the exact same engine.

What's happening is that the entire underworld (that is, all dungeons and other indoor spaces) is divided into square rooms. A 'room' is the size of one of those grid squares on the map screen. You can fit 4 small dungeon rooms in, or one of the huge ones. Or two of the 'long' ones. Often there are several of those small rooms in the same 'grid square', and these could even be rooms from different dungeons in order to save memory space.

To make the illusion work, the devs programmed the camera such that for each room it can be set to scroll with the player, be locked on the quarter of the grid space they are in (for the smallest rooms), or be locked on the half of the grid space they are in (for long/tall rooms). That tiny room in dungeon 8 where the camera moved around so much, and there seemed to be so much black space around it? Well, on the map it was in the middle of a grid square so they couldn't use the camera-lock trick on corners there. Instead they had no choice but to give the camera free range and not put any rooms directly next to it.

Any time the camera seems to act unusual it has to do with hiding the fact that every room of the smallest size is in fact part of a bigger room that's hidden from you.


Anyway, when are we getting to the CD-i Zeldas? I want to see what y'all think of it.

ricdesi
Mar 18, 2014

Does it really need saying?

Carbon dioxide posted:

You commented a couple times on the size of rooms and the camera movements being weird.

Well, I don't know about BS Zelda but I know how this works in the original LttP and it seems to be a good assumption that this uses the exact same engine.

What's happening is that the entire underworld (that is, all dungeons and other indoor spaces) is divided into square rooms. A 'room' is the size of one of those grid squares on the map screen. You can fit 4 small dungeon rooms in, or one of the huge ones. Or two of the 'long' ones. Often there are several of those small rooms in the same 'grid square', and these could even be rooms from different dungeons in order to save memory space.

To make the illusion work, the devs programmed the camera such that for each room it can be set to scroll with the player, be locked on the quarter of the grid space they are in (for the smallest rooms), or be locked on the half of the grid space they are in (for long/tall rooms). That tiny room in dungeon 8 where the camera moved around so much, and there seemed to be so much black space around it? Well, on the map it was in the middle of a grid square so they couldn't use the camera-lock trick on corners there. Instead they had no choice but to give the camera free range and not put any rooms directly next to it.

Any time the camera seems to act unusual it has to do with hiding the fact that every room of the smallest size is in fact part of a bigger room that's hidden from you.

Thaaaaat makes sense, it's a clever trick when the level is designed around the mechanic, definitely makes things a little strange when that's taken less into consideration.

So we are officially done with Satellaview Zelda games! But A Terrible Fate is far from over, so where better for us to turn next than the blight of Majora's Mask that is inexplicably popular over the Atlantic, with Freshly-Picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland! I have no idea what we're getting ourselves into.

Part 1: "What Am I Sacrificing Today?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC1CEMRtJ08

Part 2: "Hungry Poseidon Loves to Eat"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0If_2sy-kk

Polsy
Mar 23, 2007

Ah, I played this through when it came out and yeah, it's ...unique. The start of the game where you have basically no money, a bunch of people who want money, and no experience with how much they're likely to want, is pretty rough.

ricdesi
Mar 18, 2014

Does it really need saying?
Now, for anyone who hasn't seen it spammed all over their Twitter feeds, this past Wednesday was the 20th anniversary of Ocarina of Time's release in Japan, and Friday was its 20th anniversary in the US! So in honor of the legendary title, I decided to put my knowledge of that game to the test by checking out Ocarina of Time Randomizer for both of this week's streams! It's definitely strange seeing how scattered everything can be, but a few lucky chests early on seem to be making things a lot simpler than they could have been otherwise...

Ocarina of Time Randomizer, Part 1: "Spider House Rules" |
Inside the Great Deku Tree, Dodongo's Cavern, Bottom of the Well, Spirit Temple
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJY0g7K1R3w

Ocarina of Time Randomizer, Part 2: "Sorry I Broke Your Box" |
Forest Temple, vs. Phantom Ganon, Dodongo's Cavern, vs. King Dodongo (as Adult Link!), Thieves' Hideout
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1XHcxazfOc

ricdesi fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Nov 25, 2018

Polsy
Mar 23, 2007

I figured this was going to be a lot more straightforward than the LttP one because there aren't nearly as many chests scattered around in random overworld spots but I'd entirely forgotten about all the grottos which normally don't have anything of consequence in them. Also hadn't really considered they'd include the songs as 'items'.

At least you're doing better in terms of not getting stuck on a single item.

Seraphic Neoman
Jul 19, 2011


Yeah the wallet is a killer and that's why the expansion of the wallet in LttP is such a fantastic QoL change. Good news is that you're only short like 4 items to fully explore dungeons (2 tunics, longshot and fire arrows)

ricdesi
Mar 18, 2014

Does it really need saying?
Sorry for the amount of dragging our feet with Rupeeland, this game is... a bit of a slog, if I'm honest. It's got this anti-Zelda quality to it that makes it tough to get into for long stretches, but we said we're gonna push through, and that's what we're gonna do!

Part 3: "Touch Where You Want Me to Go" | Hero's Shrine, vs. Beetle Lord: Death Bug
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pkQyvLFR7I

Part 4: "Here's Your Empty Jar"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23bhkMfo6Xc

Carbon dioxide
Oct 9, 2012

Ok, so I never played this game, but looking at the LP, it seems most people are EXCESSIVELY happy when you give them a 'reasonable' amount of money. From this I conclude the game actually wants you to be stingy and give them way less - never more than 10 or 20 rupees during the early game.

That seems to be the way to make a net profit.

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Polsy
Mar 23, 2007

Yeah, pretty much. At the very start you can't get your hands on much money so people are satisfied with less. To an extent part of the game is figuring out how much is enough but there's trial and error involved. I will say this - the dungeon gates are one of the few things that remember how much you already gave them, so you don't have to go overboard there.

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