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I... garblah harble flagn WHAT WHY HOW Edit: Ending on the last page. It is uh...a thing... Also Bac it looks like the links at the end aren't formatted properly.
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Oct 5, 2018 08:49
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| # ? May 4, 2024 11:32 |
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Dr. Snark posted:I... Ahhh whoops. Will do an edit tomorrow morning! For now... consider it THE FINAL TEST 
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Oct 5, 2018 08:52
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Well of all the stories with that type of ending, I have to say that was the best I've ever seen. 
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Oct 5, 2018 09:25
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I'm at least glad we cleared up what the black spots in the ceiling are. Man, can you imagine if that was left unresolved?
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Oct 5, 2018 09:27
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I'd totally believe that last-minute old lady is Beth, yeah. I do find it really funny that for everyone just wittering on about how good and nice Beth is, all she does is add on the worst segment of gameplay the game has to offer. Which is hilarious. Honestly to me, the ending is where the game is at its most coherent. Which really really REALLY isn't saying much, but here's the train of logic I parse. Finding the locket is tied really deep into Grace's feelings. So when you do, it basically causes her to implode because she doesn't know how to handle that. So when that happens, the apocalypse is halted and things revert to how they'd be without the influence of the pills. So.... Henry has no massive discovery and gets fired from his job (basically how things are going before the pills get factored in) and Grace dies from her disease. In the epilogue scene, I totally buy that Henry is still cursed by her. The rhyming in the hallucination and the regular speech in reality distinguish that. But.... we already know he's a master of deflection and such, so he's subtly doing things to support his delusions. All his 'science' work is happening in his house, on a patient that no one will miss, and with 'willing' subjects contributing biomatter for it. The first disruption he twists into being his long-delayed accolades, and gets shot for ranting (which makes no sense at all, but the writer has kind of proven he really doesn't know how a lot of jobs work). It doesn't excuse how the kids basically don't factor into the ending at ALL, mind you, never mind the worst segment of gameplay immediately preceding all of it.
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Oct 5, 2018 09:33
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One word:
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Oct 5, 2018 09:36
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Whelp. That sure was a thing.  Thanks Bacter, for this fine ell-pee. Your commentary to enjoying it was key And now it's done it's time To forever forswear rhyme Thank god.
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Oct 5, 2018 09:47
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So that was the cat, umm, exiting Grace's gaping maw at the end wasn't it? Cat's do like small warm and dark spaces it's true. Also I love the idea that Henry's purgatory was rhyming speech. Really makes you think about the true nature of this LP... Anyway great work Bacter, hope you do manage to show off a bit more of this game as it would be interesting to get an idea for how different it can go. Do you actually have to give the pills to anyone to progress the story? You had the option not to give Grace one which unless it becomes a 'but thou must' you'd think would have to wildly change the outcome?
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Oct 5, 2018 11:12
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To be honest I kinda like both interpretations of the endings, both the literal one where his wife actually tells him to gently caress off for being a lovely husband, and the figurative one where the entire game's setting is a comically unjust world because it reflects is repressed feelings and because it lets him justify all his shortcomings. Both are very Henryesque. That said it's kind of a weird direction to go in when Silent Hill 2 already famously covered that "man stuck in a horror reality with terrible people but actually it's about him being a lovely husband to his terminally ill wife" ground. Edit: Also I choose to believe his name is Harris Harris, because this is Henry's nightmare reality and he's the kinda dork who would think that's someone's name. a cartoon duck fucked around with this message at 12:34 on Oct 5, 2018 |
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Oct 5, 2018 12:29
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Having seen the whole story, I can definitely appreciate what the game is trying to do. Making the rhyming diegetic is honestly really clever, and in retrospect, it makes a lot of the clunkiness work for the game. Unfortunately, I can't imagine how many people will get to the end of it to get that benefit. It hits one of my favorite notes in storytelling - feeding the audience a false expectation, then turning it on its head in a way that makes all of the elements of the story fall into place in a very different way. Granted, the initial assumption in this case was "the creator just wanted to be fancy and was terrible at it", but it kind of works. The true ending... is also a really neat idea, but the execution utterly ruins it, and as you pointed out, there's no purpose to any of it. It reminds me of those "horror" stories that used to make the rounds where the big reveal at the end is that someone was dead all along, and my reaction is always, so what? It didn't even do anything with the idea that it was Henry rather than Doris who was killing homeless people... in retrospect, it might have been interesting if Henry had a reason for not doing anything about her that turns out to be "those rumors were convenient to cover my own crimes" when you think back on it. Or maybe that would be too heavy-handed. This entire game has made me want to do something similar, but in a not awful way. Perhaps give the main character some meaningful moral choices, multiple endings that reflect those choices with all but the most hidden ending leading back to the start, probably a strong element of needing to discover things in a previous playthrough to solve the puzzles that lead to that ending (things like the safe having something important in it if you open it before you can normally get the combination, etc.), and a true ending that's satisfying in any way at all. Probably one of those story ideas that will sit at the back of my mind forever, but I rather like it.
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Oct 5, 2018 12:43
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While I've enjoyed this LP, I do have a concern that has been bugging me. The terms "Psychopath" and "Sociopath" have been thrown around a lot to describe Henry's behaviour, but they are inaccurate and also paint a stereotypical picture of those disorders. Henry isn't a sociopath or a psychopath. If anything he fits the profile of "Narcissistic Personality Disorder" more than the other two. I'm bringing this up because I have a friend who has been diagnosed with psychopathy, and while they are unable to feel guilt or empathy, they do try hard to understand how others feel, doing their best to replace empathy with something they can do. Psychopathy also doesn't gently caress your priorities/awareness of consequences the same way narcissism does.
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Oct 5, 2018 13:12
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This ending has left me dumbstruck I don't even know what the gently caress
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Oct 5, 2018 13:44
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.... Writing this as I watch: I can't help but think that that finale actually could have been a good opening for a better game. Start there, with the nightmare horrorscape, and develop it into a game where you struggle to escape your fate. Instead of spending the game learning that Henry's a jerk, have him grow and learn and become a better person. I don't know, I'm spit-balling, but man. That would've been a cool game. And I like the monster designs! ... .... wait oh my god the rhyming is an intentional curse??? That's dumb! That's really dumb! This game is...surprisingly good at horror sometimes. Wow.
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Oct 5, 2018 14:04
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Wow. That was definitely an ending alright. Still, I did like that the rhyming was supposed to be a pain/part of the curse. I think it made the ending scene a lot more effective. I still don't get wtf at all was up with the children, the security tapes, or really a lot of the stuff that went on, but this was definitely a really interesting game. Great work on the LP Bacter!
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Oct 5, 2018 14:10
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I have to say that I did expect the offices to turn into a blood-spattered mess, and Grace becoming a monster of some kind, but more of the "lots of gore, fleshy tendrils and body horror" kind of monster, not a demon. And I did like the fantasy-land/reality bit at the end. I'm very underwhelmed by the plot, though. Are we supposed to feel bad for Henry that he became insane trying to care for his wife (that he cheated on, in the night that she got her diagnosis)? Or are we supposed to feel relief because he got what was coming to him in the very end? I also did like how the rhyming is a curse, because it did sure feel like one.
Space Kablooey fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Oct 5, 2018 |
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Oct 5, 2018 14:13
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Dr. Snark posted:I...  I... I don't even know. I mean, I guess I didn't see it coming? (Question. If you're playing with the rhyming turned off, does that part change? Can't really call it a curse if the player's been refusing to experience it the whole time.) Also THANK GOD THAT ANSWERED ALL THE QUESTIONS AND TIED UP ALL THE LOOSE ENDS HUH GUYS IT WOULD BE A SHAME IF THE GAME NEVER FOLLOWED THROUGH ON A LOT OF STUFF (yes I know he hallucinated all of them but that's not an excuse for not explaining anything) also I laughed so hard I choked when Grace told us this was all because we don't like art. So Henry's not a psychopath, or a sociopath, or a narcissist - he's a schizophrenic. In conclusion, A Beautiful Mind did this exact same thing only better (minus the demons and poo poo) and I may never recover from the experience of reading this. Though the last few scenes at the end, flipping between reality and Henry's hallucinations, were by far the best part of the game and genuinely well done. Bifauxnen posted:This ending has left me dumbstruck
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Oct 5, 2018 14:37
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Links/typos fixed. We thank you for your patience! Ok so: In ALL FAIRNESS, I do think the 'black spots' come up more in a few other endings. I don't know that to be the case, but just looking at the barebones walkthrough. I really SHOULD do some 'other-path' videos, because one of them involves you using the cursed skull on somebody to do... something, another one has you putting on the haz-mat suit in the video store (remember they made a big point about how it was real?) and doing a maze in the sewers, and another one has you CARBOMBING THE POLICE. So, fair to say, there is a LOT of wiggle room for the story! Also, I DO recommend watching the video of the final bit, if only for the really good piano song Fwoderwick posted:So that was the cat, umm, exiting Grace's gaping maw at the end wasn't it? Cat's do like small warm and dark spaces it's true. Oh my gosh it totally was. I thought it was vomiting blood. That is.... b...etter? Worse? It's amazing is what it is. Bacter fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Oct 5, 2018 |
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Oct 5, 2018 16:38
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Bacter posted:I really SHOULD do some 'other-path' videos, because one of them involves you using the cursed skull on somebody to do... something, another one has you putting on the haz-mat suit in the video store (remember they made a big point about how it was real?) and doing a maze in the sewers, and another one has you CARBOMBING THE POLICE. 
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Oct 5, 2018 17:40
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Eh, he deserved it. I would like to see some of the alternate paths, if only to see how badly Henry botches other things.
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Oct 5, 2018 17:41
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Bacter posted:I really SHOULD do some 'other-path' videos, because one of them involves you using the cursed skull on somebody to do... something, another one has you putting on the haz-mat suit in the video store (remember they made a big point about how it was real?) and doing a maze in the sewers, and another one has you CARBOMBING THE POLICE. Please please please, I want to see every variant in this game if at all possible, but I'm not willing to pick it up myself. Please show me more of this terrible, wonderful game. PS I'm really enjoying your LP of the Final Station! It's just as good as your LP of Lone Survivor (which was really touching for me, especially with the self-care advice) and it's been so helpful to watch while recovering from a cold.
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Oct 5, 2018 17:50
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BioEnchanted posted:While I've enjoyed this LP, I do have a concern that has been bugging me. The terms "Psychopath" and "Sociopath" have been thrown around a lot to describe Henry's behaviour, but they are inaccurate and also paint a stereotypical picture of those disorders. Henry isn't a sociopath or a psychopath. If anything he fits the profile of "Narcissistic Personality Disorder" more than the other two. I'm bringing this up because I have a friend who has been diagnosed with psychopathy, and while they are unable to feel guilt or empathy, they do try hard to understand how others feel, doing their best to replace empathy with something they can do. Psychopathy also doesn't gently caress your priorities/awareness of consequences the same way narcissism does. Yeah, that's a good point. I've been pretty cavalier about using psychopathy/sociopathy - I feel like with psychological terms like that, the temptation is to use their pop culture representation as an insult - take anybody having VERY bad behavior, and call them a psychopath. Like how British people (used to? still do) throw around 'spastic'. Though there IS an interesting point here - I get the impression, playing this game, that Henry really SHOULD be able to do better at being a good person - as in, there's no disorder PREVENTING him from seeing the consequences of his actions, he just ignores his feelings of empathy for his own benefit. But am I sure that's the case? How deeply does NPD go in re-writing a person's experiences? And let's say he WAS diagnosed with something. Isn't it incumbent on him to try to overcome it? You mention a friend diagnosed with psychopathy, but one who actively works to overcome the limitations of the diagnosis. One of the really interesting things about Henry is that we never.... really SEE much moral anguishing out of him. You could argue that the few times we're given a choice (have/decline affair etc.) represent actual decision on his part, but most of the bad behavior he exhibits he doesn't seem to really think twice about. Whenever he's called out on his behavior, by, say, Grace's dad, his boss, Dr. Richards, he just seems to automatically dismiss it without even considering if they had a point, and he should change. When he's got his goal, and Grace is in the ward, he seems disturbed but... honestly more confused and sad than guilty. It's a comedy moment for me, because he's all "where did I go wrong?" and I'm instantly thinking of about 10 places. Maybe... he doesn't? StrixNebulosa posted:Please please please, I want to see every variant in this game if at all possible, but I'm not willing to pick it up myself. Please show me more of this terrible, wonderful game. I'm glad! Apparently pixelart apocalypse is... my thing? If anybody's interested, The Final station and Lone Survivor Are both games that are QUITE different from this one (they're more similar to each other - side scrolling survivalish games during a Bad Time for the World, with philosophical and psychological themes). I unironically like both of them. The music in the Final Station is especially a high point. Oh, and in case anybody was wondering, the decision to elope or not was the one that didn't matter. World ends anyway! I don't even think Grace is madder than usual! Based on the screenshots I've seen, if you, uh, give her to Harris, she DOES get madder than usual. As she might! Bacter fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Oct 5, 2018 |
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Oct 5, 2018 17:59
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I don't know what to say. I wanted to write more doggerel-commentary, but the muses just aren't cooperating today. I can't say I saw this coming either, so... I guess that's something? What's real? What isn't real? Is this story actually trying to say anything? (Is it poking fun at itself, or maybe at the audience for putting up with it? "This rhyming text is awful and torturous and we knew that all along, ha ha, gotcha suckers!") In fairness to this game, I do think there are a few really interesting ideas hidden in the slop, and I think a good rewrite might be possible with enough work. It would be very difficult, and I think almost all of what's actually here would need to be thrown out, but in principle I think it's probably possible. It's thought-provoking for all the wrong reasons, but I guess it's still interesting to think about.
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Oct 5, 2018 19:28
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The keys could have been veiled hints at the true ending instead of generic spooky words. The hidden key of vagrant's blood. The vibrant key of Narcussus's reflection. The familiar key of cold skin. The eternal key of what the gently caress.
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Oct 5, 2018 19:47
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Really not liking the "the rhyming was a CURSE!" reveal. It feels kind of forced to me.
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Oct 5, 2018 20:48
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Bacter posted:I really SHOULD do some 'other-path' videos, because one of them involves you using the cursed skull on somebody to do... something, another one has you putting on the haz-mat suit in the video store (remember they made a big point about how it was real?) and doing a maze in the sewers, and another one has you CARBOMBING THE POLICE. I can't even begin to imagine what fork in the road it is that would lead us to carbombing the police, in general it sounds like this playthrough's Henry is about as unfucked up as he gets?
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Oct 5, 2018 22:07
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Yeah, I think the only “bad” choice we made was giving Grace the pills without testing them. Saying you need more research leads to the “reliable husband” achievement, and giving her them is like “gambling husband” or “risky husband” something like that
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Oct 5, 2018 23:11
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...what Like I don’t even know how to feel about this ending. It’s not bad, per se, but it’s certainly not good. It just feels like the rest of the game was setting up some elder gods poo poo, and then shifted gears into silent hill at the end. I ask couldn’t really believe the game was ending already. Like what even loving happened in this game? It mostly felt like talking to random rear end people that brought nothing except “life sucks”. There was minimal character development, poo poo seems unanswered, and the biggest sin of all is that I felt like there was a lot of potential here to do something good or great.
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Oct 5, 2018 23:29
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Two endings for the price of one! Huzzah! Wrap it up, chaps, and stick it in a drawer marked-- What's that? We're not done? Well, I suppose I'll make myself cozy and wait for the fun.
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Oct 5, 2018 23:53
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really queer Christmas posted:the biggest sin of all is that I felt like there was a lot of potential here to do something good or great. I really keep saying this over and over, but this is what lead me to complete the game. It's a quick game on one play-through, but manages to build quite a bit of tension. After Grace started to go around the bend, every single time I came home it was stressful. And even the parts of the game that I particularly didn't like are more just... fascinating. I'm not totally ready to write them off as being just a bad author. I mean: take the pills for instance. If we're demanding just a regular coherent story, they're a mess. They're literally apocalypse pills, that... were just fed-ex'd to us by the devil, who is Satan? I guess? We give one to Stinky Pete, and he vanishes entirely, we have to assume we went insane and suicided or something. With Grace, it transforms her into a demon with unlimited power, who does the apocalypse? Just, what? But then... the pill is also the perfect symbol of Henry's ambitions. A cure-all pill that gets delivered to his doorstep, basically promising salvation, a la that angel/demon from his dreams. Was it sent to tempt him? And then Grace was basically given free reign to do whatever she wanted after that? Or is this whole narrative in some endless cyclical torment, and the pills are a part of that fiction? If so, how did it start? Is the cycle meant to display a conception of what hell might be - endless tests offered to a person who is unable to bring themselves to choose anything better than self-interest? I kind of want to ignore the "true" ending? I find that whole symbolism and apocalypse thing to be MUCH more interesting than "it was all a fever dream". That's basically your "get out of this narrative free" card, and it's dull as cardboard.
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Oct 5, 2018 23:57
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Bacter posted:But then... the pill is also the perfect symbol of Henry's ambitions. A cure-all pill that gets delivered to his doorstep, basically promising salvation, a la that angel/demon from his dreams. Was it sent to tempt him? And then Grace was basically given free reign to do whatever she wanted after that? I forgot the angel existed lol. Does anything even come of that in other paths? Because in this one, it seemed to be a misdirection because we chose about as well as possible and still got "Demon Grace kills everyone, eats cat, dies when husband lucks into a deus ex machina". The story, writing, and dialogue REALLY needed an editor or someone else for feedback. As is, it's so incoherent and seems to drop plot threads and hooks without even the faintest sense of caring.
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Oct 6, 2018 00:20
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I want to write a poem describing my reaction to the ending, but I'm not really sure what rhymes with  .quote:We've been dancing for a million years, and still you never learn. I think you've got the wrong character speaking this line.
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Oct 6, 2018 00:34
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Does the apocalypse happen in every ending? Just reading, I thought it might be a catastrophic consequence of giving the Grace the pill then OKing it for production without warning anyone, but it sounds like that's not the case?
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Oct 6, 2018 01:08
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I don't think the implication is that Henry is in endless Groundhog Day Apocalypse because he hated art, just that that's why it's all in rhyme.
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Oct 6, 2018 03:06
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Yeah, I am curious about the other paths through the game. This ending though... underwhelming is an understatement. It just feels so disjointed from everything that it kind of lacks any real gut punch.
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Oct 6, 2018 03:25
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Apropos of nothing I wonder if this guy was influenced by Yahtzee's Chzo games in making this. Wouldn't be surprised if the answer was no, especially now I've reminded myself how old those games are now, but there's a few echoes here that reminded me of the last two entries.
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Oct 6, 2018 03:32
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Thinking about it a bit more, with the reveal that Grace was apparently dead the whole time, I wonder if Henry's nightmare/dream/whatever is some sort of misplaced guilt over his wife's death, or an exaggerated caricature of him being an rear end in a top hat being what killed her or something. Ultimately his actions seem to make him out to be at least somewhat "caring" post-death given that he went out and gathered "volunteers" in a process that couldn't have been quick or easy. Maybe it's penance for treating her like poo poo?
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Oct 6, 2018 03:39
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Henry being a selfish idiot that causes misery all around him and him loving Grace and feeling guilt over being a selfish idiot who caused her misery aren't exactly mutually exclusive, so it's probably both. One thing I do like about the "it was all in Henry's head" ending is how it recontextualises that nightmare scene where the children go all "don't worry about killing hobos Henry, it's all cool if it's for the greater good so just chill".
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Oct 6, 2018 13:42
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The bit in the end where the police shoot Henry just because might be the impression a Swede gets of life in America if their only exposure to our culture is the news.
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Oct 6, 2018 18:21
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ultrafilter posted:The bit in the end where the police shoot Henry just because might be the impression a Swede gets of life in America if their only exposure to our culture is the news. I mean, are they wrong?
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Oct 6, 2018 18:27
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Yeah, it's totally unrealistic! Henry is a middle-class white guy living in the suburbs, so he doesn't fit any of the demographics for getting immediately shot on sight by the police!
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Oct 6, 2018 18:35
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