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Yesterday I dropped acid and then watched Mandy followed by Beyond the Black Rainbow and my idea of what cinema can be has just been shattered. Thanks Cosmatos.
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Oct 8, 2018 12:57
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I know the apparently lack of understanding of what magical realism entails has cause enough derailment, but didn't the chemist show to have both telepathy as well as telekinesis? I swear when I saw it he flicked a switch or something without touching it, but I could have been mistaken. If so, that would mean that the acid had some sort of magical properties. What do you guys take from Mandy herself as a character? The scene when she's coming out of the water staring at Red, and the way that Jeremiah was so drawn to her, as well as the weird eye stuff she sometimes had going on make me feel like there was something supernatural about her as well.
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Oct 9, 2018 20:45
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Gejimayu posted:I know the apparently lack of understanding of what magical realism entails has cause enough derailment, but didn't the chemist show to have both telepathy as well as telekinesis? I swear when I saw it he flicked a switch or something without touching it, but I could have been mistaken. If so, that would mean that the acid had some sort of magical properties. Yea I think there's enough ambiguity there that you can read it as a batch of LSD(or whatever) so potent that it actually did pierce the veil or however you want to put it. I'd have to watch it again to really figure out if I come down particularly hard on one side or the other.
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Oct 9, 2018 20:51
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I saw it again last night so I can comment on LSD chat but we get two examples of it seeming to make characters omniscient. When Red samples the batch the bikers have he gets a glimpse of where the radio tower which seems to be how he knows where to go at all, and of course the entire "conversation" between the chemist and red that was mentioned before. Also was extremely glad to see a completely packed theater for a late night showing on a Tuesday night. I'm pretty happy for Cosmatos getting the response that he is with Mandy. Dude hit it out of the park.
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Oct 10, 2018 14:18
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Gejimayu posted:I know the apparently lack of understanding of what magical realism entails has cause enough derailment, but didn't the chemist show to have both telepathy as well as telekinesis? I swear when I saw it he flicked a switch or something without touching it, but I could have been mistaken. If so, that would mean that the acid had some sort of magical properties. Totally. The impression I got if you want to take it more literally is that Sand finds out about the super pierce the veil of reality I can see everything LSD and uses it, but maybe like it doesn't quite work that well on everyone (i.e. the bikers) but for reasons it works on the chemist and Red and like, maybe it made Sand perceptive enough in such a way that he could see she was powerful enough to handle it too but they have her generally incapacitated/kill her off too early before that happens, so all we hear from her after is Red hallucinating or/and her communicating from beyond our time and space. Just because if you want to look at it like actual magical stuff is happening because of this drug then yeah actual telepathic kind of stuff was happening was happening between Red/the chest/his pet tiger. Of course the biggest indicator that Mandy is someone special is that the cult had to hire the bikers in the first place. The tiger was my favorite part of that whole thing, that it as kind enough to go straight to where Red wanted to go and then tell them where that is. Like thanks to this movie, FINALLY, the lyrics to Holy Diver make sense. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Oct 10, 2018 |
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Oct 10, 2018 14:56
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Gejimayu posted:I know the apparently lack of understanding of what magical realism entails has cause enough derailment, but didn't the chemist show to have both telepathy as well as telekinesis? I swear when I saw it he flicked a switch or something without touching it, but I could have been mistaken. If so, that would mean that the acid had some sort of magical properties. I'm having trouble separating myself from my read on the movie being a story she writes, so that sort of focus makes a lot of sense to me. But there was a lot of hidden backstory neatly written into this movie. Mandy and Red are both immensely damaged folks, like Vern wrote, the movie starts like it's already at a climax. But Mandy seems to have a power even if you put aside my theory, her eyes are a particular signpost of this flick. Like, what was happening with her scar? It's Odin like. And now I'm thinking of her being hanged, which is how that particular god got his wisdom. e: there isn't a particular logic to be gained from this flick, no straight story. Just a wash of allusions and influences, which mix together just as combustly as its various painter like brushes.
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Oct 10, 2018 15:06
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Trip report:
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Oct 10, 2018 16:45
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Gejimayu posted:I know the apparently lack of understanding of what magical realism entails has cause enough derailment, but didn't the chemist show to have both telepathy as well as telekinesis? I swear when I saw it he flicked a switch or something without touching it, but I could have been mistaken. If so, that would mean that the acid had some sort of magical properties. The LSD is clearly magic by any real world definition. But I think it was meant to be more like "drugs but times a million" more than like, a wizard enchantment. Like there is no real world non-magic reason it'd let you see something far away, but I think the idea is like, lsd makes you feel in tune and connected so like super perfect LSD would make you so in tune you could feel a cricket move on a leaf a mile away or whatever. Metal gear solid type logic. everything that happens is clearly magic and any of the hand waved explanations make no real world sense. But it's all supposed to be drugs. Like drugs make you ignore pain sometimes, so like, super drugs would let you take an arrow to the neck and then parry an ax with your forearm and there is no way that makes any real sense but it makes sense if you take what it's going for. Like you couldn't make up a chemical pathway lsd would let you parry ax blades so it's magic, but like, it's "he is so drugged up he doesn't even register the pain" then "shut up" with the answer if you ask any follow up questions on how that would work.
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Oct 10, 2018 17:20
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"Do you like The Carpenters?" lol
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Oct 10, 2018 19:43
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:The LSD is clearly magic by any real world definition. But I think it was meant to be more like "drugs but times a million" more than like, a wizard enchantment. You'd think this would be less of a sticking point with people now that over the years we've had decades of stuff like the X-Men, Bioshock, online games with super abilities and cooldowns to them, and MCU, etc. superhero origin stuff becoming about as mainstream as it could possibly get. That said I don't think anyone in the thread is asking or particularly flummoxed about how poo poo works in the movie rather than just giving their takes on how it played out to them.  This makes me want to see a cut of the movie though with voice over narration from the the guy who explains how water tower/monorail explosions work in Batman Begins. Like instead of Shadow Forest/etc. title cards just cut to him in his little control office like "THAT GUY RED IS SO ANGRY RIGHT NOW HE'S GOING TO FORGE THE BEAST AND GET REVENGE!"
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Oct 10, 2018 19:44
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Neo Rasa posted:The impression I got if you want to take it more literally is that Sand finds out about the super pierce the veil of reality I can see everything LSD and uses it, but maybe like it doesn't quite work that well on everyone This was my read. It seemed to be tied to a character's intent or purity of purpose, and just made them more of whatever they were inside, like how the super soldier serum affected Captain America, Red Skull, and Abomination differently. Like imbibing is hitting a big red button that says "become fictional" and that affects everyone in a unique way
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Oct 10, 2018 20:22
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SlimGoodbody posted:This was my read. It seemed to be tied to a character's intent or purity of purpose, and just made them more of whatever they were inside, like how the super soldier serum affected Captain America, Red Skull, and Abomination differently. This makes sense considering real LSD also can have very different effects depending on several factors, so specifically namedropping that as the basis for the fictional superdrug seems to support that reading.
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Oct 10, 2018 20:41
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"When, if at all, does the movie does explicitly cross the distinct line from just drug-induced hallucinations to the supernatural" is kind of beside the point, I think. It's depicting the aftermath of an era where the idea that psychedelic drugs could expand your consciousness and reveal previously unsuspected realms was treated as a perfectly plausible one; we're looking at a kind of magic realism, not conventional fantasy. The line between drugs and magic in Mandy doesn't exist.
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Oct 10, 2018 21:07
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Neo Rasa posted:You'd think this would be less of a sticking point with people now that over the years we've had decades of stuff like the X-Men, Bioshock, online games with super abilities and cooldowns to them, and MCU, etc. superhero origin stuff becoming about as mainstream as it could possibly get. I don't think it's supposed to be mystic, or a super power or anything. I think it's like if a movie had a really hot pepper and someone used the extract to melt through a lock. It makes zero physical sense how that would work without magic but it sounds enough like how it should work that it's acceptable for fiction. A hot pepper seems hot so a special one would melt metal. LSD seems like it heightens your senses so it seems like special LSD would do that more. Even if the specifics don't hold up in real life.
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Oct 10, 2018 22:29
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I just mean that I think audiences are more than able to except "it's magic, we ain't gotta explain poo poo" when weird stuff happens in movies. I think stuff falls apart more the more a flick tries to explain stuff if it's not done carefully.
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Oct 10, 2018 22:58
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Neo Rasa posted:I just mean that I think audiences are more than able to except "it's magic, we ain't gotta explain poo poo" when weird stuff happens in movies. I think stuff falls apart more the more a flick tries to explain stuff if it's not done carefully. In a movie like this saying "it's enchanted LSD that contains magic" is over explaining. It's drugs that do drug stuff but a lot, and you shouldn't think of the specifics of how none of it is anything that would really happen.
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Oct 10, 2018 23:14
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:"When, if at all, does the movie does explicitly cross the distinct line from just drug-induced hallucinations to the supernatural" is kind of beside the point, I think. It's depicting the aftermath of an era where the idea that psychedelic drugs could expand your consciousness and reveal previously unsuspected realms was treated as a perfectly plausible one; we're looking at a kind of magic realism, not conventional fantasy. The line between drugs and magic in Mandy doesn't exist. This kind of "aftermath of the fallen Aquarian Age ideal" inspection is a theme in both of Panos' movies, I think.
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Oct 10, 2018 23:28
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:In a movie like this saying "it's enchanted LSD that contains magic" is over explaining. It's drugs that do drug stuff but a lot, and you shouldn't think of the specifics of how none of it is anything that would really happen. I mean, we already know everything's happening from special LSD because Bill Duke looks at us and tells us that. But like Tuxedo Catfish and others have mentioned there isn't a clearly drawn line between magic or not, I don't think "the LSD is magic that does some unexpected stuff" or "the LSD is weird chemicals that do some unexpected stuff" are particularly invalid when a big part of the movie is about that era where flower power "grew up" into parapsychology being a thing actually researched in universities all of which came crashing down hard in the early 80s.
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Oct 11, 2018 00:13
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Neo Rasa posted:I mean, we already know everything's happening from special LSD because Bill Duke looks at us and tells us that. But like Tuxedo Catfish and others have mentioned there isn't a clearly drawn line between magic or not, I don't think "the LSD is magic that does some unexpected stuff" or "the LSD is weird chemicals that do some unexpected stuff" are particularly invalid when a big part of the movie is about that era where flower power "grew up" into parapsychology being a thing actually researched in universities all of which came crashing down hard in the early 80s. I have now watched this film a LOT, looking for different things. I am still comfortable with the conclusion that the drug and/or mysticism angle is being depicted exactly as Panos intended. Truly, utterly and purposely ambiguous. What I'm really curious about is what this was like in Panos's head before he realized Cage would be great. He's mentioned that it was originally a "old vs young" angle, and that would really fit the "disillusionment of flower power and mystic healing" but it really mellowed that message having Red and Sand be closer in age. The Chemist has grown on me, even if his role is that single scene. Even compared to the Black Skulls he seems the most 'mystic' out of everything, blurring the "is it drugs or is it magic" even more. Some how noting that Red is a Jovian warrior and communicating seemingly through thought. I also love how crushed he is by whatever it was that Red communicated to him about Lizzie. It's pretty great. Nothing truly suggests it in the movie, but I like the idea that it was the Chemist that grew the disliking to the Black Skulls, giving them what ever it was that made them them. He is the only one involved with the drugs that openly admits Red was wronged, and he chooses to surrender to Red so he seems like a decent dude compared to the others. Another thing I think this film should get credit for is that even though it's a nightmare art film, it has some pretty decent fights in it. The chainsaw fight is pretty great and even if Red killing gently caress Pig and Sis isn't very long its still neat to watch. The Bruce Lee zoom as Cage breaks the neck is loving great. As much as I love the scoring for the film, I kinda wish Panos did get Ruleth by Ssleperhood for the fight between Red and the Leader (who is either Scabs or Skratch, who knows  ). Holy poo poo does it work. That fight does give me a smile from the fact that the Leader is using a switchblade even though he has his goofy demon-claw-ring things that have already been already shown to cut people when he caresses Swans face.
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Oct 11, 2018 05:58
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Now that you mention it, that shot is pretty much just this shot from Enter the Dragon (which makes me love it even more) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QI26j81Khs
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Oct 11, 2018 12:08
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Coffee And Pie posted:Now that you mention it, that shot is pretty much just this shot from Enter the Dragon (which makes me love it even more) In the GQ video interview (that everyone should watch) Nic said that was exactly the shot he wanted to copy.
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Oct 11, 2018 13:45
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Watched it again in theater. Still hauls rear end
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Oct 11, 2018 15:01
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Free Drinks posted:I have now watched this film a LOT, looking for different things. I am still comfortable with the conclusion that the drug and/or mysticism angle is being depicted exactly as Panos intended. Truly, utterly and purposely ambiguous. Coffee And Pie posted:Now that you mention it, that shot is pretty much just this shot from Enter the Dragon (which makes me love it even more) Old vs. Old, Evil against Evil The chemist really grew on me too. I love what the movie does any time someone goes from one location to another and how hazy it is, like did he drive a mile north to get to the radio tower? A day or two? I love how insanely far away the church feels distance wise even though "realistically" the movie takes place over a small amount of space and, old vs. old? Red is a lumberjack.
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Oct 11, 2018 16:55
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There’s gotta be some symbolism in the tighty whities Cage wears. Innocence? Impotence?
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Oct 12, 2018 01:46
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Coffee And Pie posted:There’s gotta be some symbolism in the tighty whities Cage wears. Innocence? Impotence? It was the 80s
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Oct 12, 2018 01:53
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6 days until I can see this. I am so hyped. Tell me it's warranted. Please.
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Oct 12, 2018 10:00
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Olympic Mathlete posted:6 days until I can see this. I am so hyped. Tell me it's warranted. Please. https://twitter.com/alamodrafthouse/status/1050026281029513216
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Oct 12, 2018 10:08
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Coffee And Pie posted:There’s gotta be some symbolism in the tighty whities Cage wears. Innocence? Impotence? The streaks in them represent the demarcation and shift of innocence to guilt. Truly a beautiful visual metaphor.
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Oct 13, 2018 01:33
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I wish I didn't have to wait another eight years until the next Panos Cosmatos film. It's hard to think of movies I want to see now, because I just want to see Mandy again fresh. What else can I watch that has the same vibe? Probably nothing out there I haven't already seen. Something with the same dark atmosphere, visuals, and a hint of the unexplainable like Beyond the Black Rainbow (duh); Annihilation; Stalker; Enter the Void; even Event Horizon in some respects. Anything else?
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Oct 13, 2018 02:02
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Mandy is what you'd call a real cinematic experience, and not everyone is out there making those. In fact most are not. It was a pleasure to go to a theater and watch that.
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Oct 13, 2018 02:08
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Ramrod Hotshot posted:I wish I didn't have to wait another eight years until the next Panos Cosmatos film. It's hard to think of movies I want to see now, because I just want to see Mandy again fresh. Have you seen Under the Skin?
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Oct 13, 2018 02:12
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Ramrod Hotshot posted:I wish I didn't have to wait another eight years until the next Panos Cosmatos film. It's hard to think of movies I want to see now, because I just want to see Mandy again fresh. I would highly recommend The Void (a different film from Enter the Void), but with a big grain a salt. I don't know how that works, but it's a very interesting movie that just doesn't live up to it's potential. It's overt in it's use of supernatural eldritch forces but I feel shares some of the ethereal dread that comes from Mandy. Though I'll say it's faaar closer to Event Horizon than any of the others on your list. Would have made for a loving amazing TV show or miniseries, giving us more information while also making it so that information means less. Oh well. Free Drinks fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Oct 13, 2018 |
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Oct 13, 2018 02:27
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Free Drinks posted:I would highly recommend The Void (a different film from Enter the Void), but with a big grain a salt. I don't know how that works, but it's a very interesting movie that just doesn't live up to it's potential. It's overt in it's use of supernatural eldritch forces but I feel shares some of the ethereal dread that comes from Mandy. Though I'll say it's faaar closer to Event Horizon than any of the others on your list. Cosmatos is thanked in the credits for this, so I'm planning to watch it soon just based on that.
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Oct 13, 2018 03:37
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The Void is a pretty cool movie
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Oct 13, 2018 10:57
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Oct 13, 2018 11:31
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Ramrod Hotshot posted:I wish I didn't have to wait another eight years until the next Panos Cosmatos film. It's hard to think of movies I want to see now, because I just want to see Mandy again fresh. Basically every David Lynch movie.
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Oct 13, 2018 17:38
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Free Drinks posted:I would highly recommend The Void (a different film from Enter the Void), but with a big grain a salt. I don't know how that works, but it's a very interesting movie that just doesn't live up to it's potential. It's overt in it's use of supernatural eldritch forces but I feel shares some of the ethereal dread that comes from Mandy. Though I'll say it's faaar closer to Event Horizon than any of the others on your list. The (A)void
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Oct 13, 2018 17:38
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Our local indie cinema just announced they'll be showing it from the end of the month so now I get to see it again and drag more friends with me. I can't wait!
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Oct 13, 2018 20:21
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My screen tonight was super annoying. I HAD to see it in a cinema though, after watching it with my face smushed next to a 15 inch monitor already. The fuckin noise out of this movie
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Oct 13, 2018 23:20
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Basebf555 posted:Have you seen Under the Skin? No I haven't, good suggestion.
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Oct 14, 2018 14:42
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