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Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.
This gives me the impression of being a prettier version of Hobo With a Shotguns good parts. I really wanted to like that movie but it's just so drat mean spirited in a unfun way. Though I was pretty enthralled by The Plague. I loved how god damned bizarre they were and how they made me want to know what the hell it is they actually do. Not all that bothered about not getting answers, just left with a craving for more of them. Is that the kind of direction this goes in, or is it just me projecting that kind of thing into it?

I'm not sure what to think about Panos Cosmatos. It's not that the trailer for Beyond the Black Rainbow was all that misleading, it just didn't live up to the film it evoked in my head when I saw it. Though I actually loved its shift in the last 8 or so minutes of the film.

There's a showing of it around me, but a hour away. I hesitate to go, but holy poo poo it's getting some good reviews for seeming like such a nutts-o movie.

Free Drinks fucked around with this message at 10:52 on Sep 13, 2018

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Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.

Coffee And Pie posted:

I mean I’m driving ~45 minutes to see it at the Alamo soooooo

I'd be heading to grand ol' Lansing, MI where I'm 95% sure there will be no more than 5 people attending, so it might be a different experience :v:. Though it might still be worth it.

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.
Well poo poo, looks like I can't make it. Even though I only heard about this film last night, I'm pretty pumped for it. I hope there's a VOD or something that comes out soon, considering, you know, it's being played a whole one time.

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.
Seeing as it's only 15$ Amazon to preorder I'm 100% willing to toss that much down the well even if I somehow end up hating it (I can't see how I could be anymore than disappointed). Heck, I want to give it money just so Cosmatos can make more movies. He seems like someone that has a vision that really appeals to me but still needs some gestation to be truly great. Though the potential is so loving there.

Hearing about 'the bikers', (again haven't seen the movie, though look forward to it) I hope that the interpretation can fairly easily be ambiguous. Again reaching back to Hobo With a Shotgun, The Plague apparently literally are demons in the context to the story but I love that it doesn't really matter. They are a other worldly, seemingly unstoppable force and I just find that poo poo fascinating. That's part of what disappointed me so much about Kin, if anyone saw it. It felt like 'the chasers' in it would have a similar aura to them, but they ended up being superfluous to the whole film which ended up being more of a under cooked family drama. Wasted, wasted potential. So basically that's what I hope doesn't happen here, even if the bikers/demons aren't that crucial of a component.

Man, I really wish I could have seen this in theaters.

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.
There may be minor spoilers here but I don’t feel like picking them out, so just warning you.

I have no idea how I will boil away the regret of not seeing this in theaters. Since the only option was VOD if I wanted to see this before Oct 30, I had to take it. Unfortunately Amazon would not allow it to play in HD, polluting what was and what wasn’t meant to be grained or fogged out. Regardless the blown out hues, ethereal shadows, and ludicrous designs certainly were beautiful and I eagerly await being able to rewatch it again on my modest, but still nice, TV.

Though the colors and cinematography make for the easiest piece to quickly absorb and either enjoy or critique, I think the sound is by far the most impressive part of the film. The ethereal drones in the calmer pieces of Jóhann Jóhannsson soundtrack provided wonderful vibration to hold your breath to, but what stuck with me was the grinding timbre of the voice modulations and the more malevolent tracks. Like dragging your face on pavement. Like licking gravel. It was mesmerizing. The most absorbing part being the voices of the Black Skulls.

They were exactly the otherworldly force I had hoped for. And like The Plague of “Hobo with a Shotgun”, I am left craving more. Always more. But I suppose that is part of the curse of finding those types so fascinating. I love the levels of mythos built around them with barely a descriptor given. The plain explanation of them being crazy bikers on LSD functions, but there so clearly is more present. The horn of Abraxas used to summon them is a reference to ancient Gnosticism, which is a snarl of crazy beliefs that include bad rear end things that have become modern fantasy tropes, like demons, archons and the demiurge. There is a gigantic rabbit hole of amazing, fun and batshit crazy things ancient people believed. I love that they are integrated like this because it makes the story feel so much more expansive while allowing my own imagination greedily build its own theories. The film gets to simultaneously be a simple “revenge on bikers and some lovely hippies” story AND a labyrinthine “revenge on literal demons and evil cult worshipers” one.

“Beyond the Black Rainbow” had what is probably my favorite trailer of any film but I ended up being a disappointment to me because it failed to be as evocative as I had imagined. I certainly will be revisiting it, but I remember it spending far too much time in the ethereal, being all steam and no boil until the last 5-10 minutes. This, however, surpasses all I had hoped for. As cliché as it is, the film is both horrifying and beautiful. It feels as though Panos Cosmatos has an uncommon eye for both and good god I can’t wait until his next film. The thing I fear the most is all this feeling being afterglow, and the bizarre “joy” I feel from this movie will dissipate and leave me empty. At least it was fun getting here.

“Blood for blood”
“More”

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.

Hello Grand Rapids. Going there 100%. I hope my car can hold out.

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.

TheMopeSquad posted:

Rocking my 44 shirt today :boom:

I hope you are going to a show, but not wearing that shirt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgFcl3BrJpU

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.

Ramrod Hotshot posted:

Real dilemma with this one. I'm a big fan of Beyond the Black Rainbow. I want to see Mandy for the incredible vision of Panos Cosmatos, but I don't like revenge horror movies and gratuitous, graphic violence.

Is the focus more on how gross the next kill is, or on trippy suspenseful vibes like BBR was?

One way to look at it is if you remember the very ending of BtBR, the part with the drunks, take that and make it half the movie instead. With the people it happens to not being innocent drunks though. The second half isn't just wanton violence for the sake of showing fancy gore, it's deserved violence for the sake of showing fancy gore. There is quite a bit of graphic violence, but it is so extreme that it leads to cartoonish. Unlike a lot of films this could be compared to, this one isn't nearly as mean spirited. Obviously it's pretty bleak material, but it isn't total misanthropy.

Edit:

welwala harris posted:

Mandy gets sleeping-bagged too

:bisonyes:

Free Drinks fucked around with this message at 07:12 on Sep 22, 2018

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.

HumanDecency posted:

I liked this movie because it was interesting. Can't decide if it was good. Or really what was going on. There was a lot of red herrings.

Spoilerish questions below.

Was it on Earth? Was it made up? What the gently caress was going on with Mandy? Why did Cage build a sword? How much time took place? How did he not die from the original wound from the children of the new dawn?

I think from the credits scene with the photos and the in-bed conversation with Mandy about his bad dream earlier in the film lean towards that none of it actually happened and Cage was a recovering LSD addict who kept falling back into horrible trips.

Style wise it was great. I loved the LSD trip scenes. The faces blending together was a great touch. It was hard to tell Jeremiah and Mandy apart. I think that was probably important.

Cage's range went from silly to serious. It was jarring sometimes. Like not understanding how to deliver the Erik Estrada line. I think I liked that aspect.

What's your favorite planet?

More spoilers.

The easy answer is that it's just magic realism. It isn't meant to be decidedly realistic. The answers to your questions are whatever ones make the film work best in your own head. Because of my own tastes I prefer the interpretation that the cult literally summoned demons because I think that's cool as hell. It's always easy to dismiss the explanation "it's all your own interpretation maaaannn", but I think that legitimately is what this is supposed to be. I'm sure Panos has his own view, since he spent years tooling with it, but I doubt he has a specific one for the viewers.

This film really clicked with me and I've now seen it more times than is probably healthy. I managed to make it to Grand Rapids to see it at 6:30 but I decided to see it again at 9:30 because it was the only time I was going to see it in theaters so I might as well try it out twice. One really interesting thing to note was how the film ends. For most of it there is a low hum of some type going on because of the soundtrack, including as Red is driving away at the very end, but right when it cuts to the scrolling credits it goes utterly silent. I felt like that was a god drat amazing way to end this movie because it meant that just before the lights went back on to leave there was silence and while everyone was shuffling out you could hear every sound they made. It made leaving incredibly awkward and that was something that only came through the theater experience.

Zwabu posted:

Am I mistaken or did Red spare the young female cultist his wrath? If so, why? She was complicit in all of it.

My reasoning is that out of all of them she was the one that had the least control over her own actions. When Jeremiah forces her to play Russian roulette she doesn't question it (well maybe a bit of hesitation, but she still does it). She also was the only one not celebrating as Mandy burned. Well, Jeremiah wasn't really celebrating but he clearly was into seeing her burn. The only part that sours me on Sister Lucy being fully innocent is that she holds Mandy down so that she could be drugged, which can be explained by her just following orders but it is one example of her actively harming someone.

In the credits the Black Skulls are given names but I wonder what one is meant to be what. A couple are obvious. You don't need to be a film scholar to figure out who gently caress Pig was and I'm fairly certain that the one with the chinless mask would be Sis since it seemed like that one could be a woman and a actress does play Sis. That leaves Skratch and Scabs. The design I liked the most was the one with all of the bolts coming out of him because it made for a really cool silhouette. I was disappointed he was the first to go, but I'll forgive it since his body trashed the HELL out of Reds car. That was quite the flip for just hitting a dude.

Free Drinks fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Sep 23, 2018

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.

GoldenGun posted:

You mean the Ocarina of Crime.

Was anyone else upset that Brother Swan blew into it incorrectly?

HumanDecency posted:

But we know the Bikers weren't actual hell spawns because the black oracle - basically Morpheous - tells us that the bikers are just people who had bad LSD trips from Jeremiah's chemist.

That makes the assumption that Caruthers is actually correct. And he could be. But he could be wrong. It's whatever.

Another example of what happens being more on the supernatural side is the interactions with The Chemist. Red never says a word to him but The Chemist seems to know what he is thinking, acting as if he had spoken. This could be interpreted as The Chemist has obtained supernatural awareness of his surroundings and doesn't need spoken communication. Or it could just mean that either he or Red are so hosed up on drugs that we are presented with what they are seeing, not what actually happened.

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.

NmareBfly posted:

The one unexplained thing I expected a bit more on was Red's gut wound. They deffo stab him, and I was expecting one leg to be drenched in blood in the bathroom scene but... nope. Besides a tear in his shirt, it's not really mentioned that I remember.

Spoilers:

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned the parallels with Red being stabbed in the lower left like Jesus had, so I think that's where it was going. It ended up being proof that Jeremiah was wrong when he said Jesus's mistake was to not make a sacrifice in his place. Red ends up coming back and literally telling him "I am your god now" while he crushes his head.

Two of my main criticisms is actually right there in the crushing scene.

1. "I am your god now" is too close to "this is god" from A Nightmare on Elm street to be original and the context is too different to be a good homage. Since Jeremiah repeatedly talked about him being a shining light something like "I am your light now" I think would have worked better.

2. The allusions to cumming when Red crushes the head felt out of place to me. Sure it was a big moment of relief and release for Red, but the film had done a impressive job of not screaming the sexual symbolism right in your face until then. And yes I know the knife dick counters my claim immediately, but why I consider that different is that it's attached to a otherworldly, bizarre creature that kinda looks like a person (and may be a person). Though I guess I just rebutted my own complaint since it could easily be argued that Red no longer is human by then so adapting the outrageous sexual symbolism would make sense.

Well poo poo, I guess it does work. I just liked how it wasn't like how some horror films can go be way to obvious about sexual allusions were its just "GET IT. ITS HIS DICK. IT'S A DICK THAT ENTERS PEOPLE". Which again, I suppose you could argue that Red's ax could be dong metaphor city, seeing as it's shoved through Brother Swan's mouth and later Jeremiah bizarrely says he'll suck Red's cock.

gently caress. God drat it, I'm wrong about everything. Why is it so easy to pick out sex poo poo. I want to enjoy my drug fueled nightmare movie that includes a literal floppy dong without thinking everything is a reference to sex (even if it is actually interesting).

All things scream sexual symbolism. It's deafening :sad:. (that was not the emote I meant to use, but it works surprisingly well)

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.

DeimosRising posted:

What’s wrong with sex

I've analyzed too many rape/revenge movies so it just gets depressing.

I just wanted to view this as a revenge movie rather than rape/revenge because a case could be made for either.

Edit:
gently caress, I feel like I've dug a creepy hole for myself.

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.
I know that there aren't many people that will have a HD version yet, but would anyone be able to get a HD capture of this shot?



Out of a film with a lot of beautiful shots I think this is my favorite. Combined with the music sting it's just such a eerie image.

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.

Neo Rasa posted:

What about the cathartic part where Brother Swan gets stabbed in the mouth because that was one of the most phallic imagery things in the movie not counting the part where we literally see a dick.

Right below what you quoted:

Free Drinks posted:


Well poo poo, I guess it does work. I just liked how it wasn't like how some horror films can go be way to obvious about sexual allusions were its just "GET IT. ITS HIS DICK. IT'S A DICK THAT ENTERS PEOPLE". Which again, I suppose you could argue that Red's ax could be dong metaphor city, seeing as it's shoved through Brother Swan's mouth and later Jeremiah bizarrely says he'll suck Red's cock.


After the "Shadow Mountains 1983 a.d." and "Children of the New Dawn" cards I really thought it was going to go with a pulp novel chapters motif for the rest of the movie, but the only other one ended up being the title card. Though they all were pretty god drat cool, the Children one was foreboding.

Free Drinks fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Sep 25, 2018

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.

Neo Rasa posted:

Speaking of which, I saw this as a straight revenge movie. I mean obviously Sand intended to rape her but the way that scene plays out, and the way he talks about her with Red afterwards? I really read it as him getting so angry he couldn't get it up and that she just cold laughed at him that they just immediately went from there to killing her off. This fit well with him offering to suck Red's dick at the end too to me because he has this whole cult built up just so he can gently caress brainwashed people, but he failed to and is shaken by it til the end because his only way of interacting with people is through sexual domination. So of course the minute he's cornered by the Red (or the cosmology if you take it as all actual supernatural stuff) that he's awakened offering to suck his dick is literally all he's got.

I noticed is that when Mandy is laughing at him but before he yells "DONT YOU loving LOOK AT ME" he's doing a motion of jerking off to get it up and getting flustered. I have a feeling that there was more to the scene to make that explicit, but his dong floppin around was probably enough dong. I'm pretty sure it's more obvious in a different edit.

Not that he didn't give a great performance but I was actually expecting MORE from Cage. The bathroom scene is brilliant but I think he had even more to give. I did love the grabbing of his throat in order to not let the burn get to him so he can cram more alcohol down. His break down while he's watching her burn and when he tells Caruthers that they lit her on fire where powerful too. I don't think anyone other than Cage could have done Red justice. It's funny that the same person did the yelling and crying when bees are put on his head is the same one who yells and cries when it finally hits him what happened to Mandy. One of the two is a bit more relatable. None of us know exactly what we would do, but I think basically everyone would go berserk if they were forced to watch their love burn alive.

I think Linus Roache deserves a ton of credit. I don't know how you can portray psychosis that well without being crazy already. His best bits for me were right after the "DONT YOU loving LOOK AT ME" part where he's just staring into a mirror crying repeating "Tell me what do. Please tell me what to do" over and over until he manages to tell himself "Dont ever doubt yourself". I took it as it wasn't that he collected himself and calmed down, instead he left the building and let the even worse him in.

The other bit is when it happens again while he's crying and saying he'll suck Red's cock. He's panicking because the walls are finally closing in but after a bit he suddenly changes again with the "No... no! I don't kneel before you, you kneel before me!" going back to his egocentric roots. He does a great job of showing just how demented Jeremiah was.

I also loved his "pllllllleeeeeeeeeesssssseeeee fetch me Brother Swan". When that came out I know I was in for a impressive performance.

I took the "I'll suck you dick man. Is that what you want?" to be a call back to Brother Swan. If the blade on his ax is his dick, then, yeah, Red kinda does want Jeremiah to suck his dick the same way Brother Swan did. Though he goes with the "I'm crushing you head" instead since it's more personal to use your hands I suppose.

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.
Red's shirt is the Shroud of Turin.

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.
Well oh my. This all seems pretty obvious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DD00HW9ipSU

Mandy is just the stuff in this video jammed together.

The_Rob posted:

I was insanely high when I saw this last night and when that king crimson song started I knew I was In The exact right play for the next two hours.

I don't really know what would happen when watching this on LSD.

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.

Inzombiac posted:

What was up with the cazador that they stung Mandy with?
Just so the toxin would gently caress her up even more?

Yeah, just more drugs. I'm pretty confident it was there just to bring even more otherworldly things in. Make you question if that bee thing had anything to do with all the extra craziness or the super LSD or what. Kinda a red haring, kinda true, type thing. Since it is pretty gnarly looking.


I thought that face was loving awesome, but I hate the cut from it to the shot with the camera being in front of the car as it pans up for the vary last shot. There's the shot of him looking to the side with that hosed up smile, turns forward and the smile fades leaving just has a hosed up look with his mouth open, but then it cuts and his face is just a normal minor scowl type thing. Super minor, but it stood out to me.


I think I love this movie because it fulfills so many promises I felt other movies made but didn't. Maybe these movies don't really have that much in common, but how I built them up in my head they do. Hobo with a Shotgun was just so mean spirited even if it included neat demon bikers. The Void (not Enter the Void) ended up not having enough substance. It was close to great with some really hosed up imagery, but 90 min was not nearly long enough to do what it was trying to do. Beyond the Black Rainbow was too cool of a burn for me and honestly didn't get weird enough.

But this. God drat, this. I didn't even know about it until 5 days before it came out.

Free Drinks fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Sep 28, 2018

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.

Al Cu Ad Solte posted:

My favorite gag: the Chemist turning off the soundtrack

Bye Lizzie

Free Drinks fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Sep 29, 2018

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.
Noooooooooooooo. I finally put it together where I knew Linus Roache from. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf4v-3JdE6I

Now i can't separate it. Boooooo Dick Wolf. BOOOOOOO.

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.

Your Parents posted:

A lot of other movies would stick to filming her death scene in a voyeuristic way and do all the closeups and make it this whole thing about titillating the audience or whatever crap, but Mandy goes out on her own terms and doesn't give the audience any satisfaction or entertainment in her death, which is directly contrasted with Red orgasmically murdering people on screen with huge gore for the second half of the movie.

Spoilers

Really


I also appreciated the way Panos handled both not making it titillation but also not trying to hammer in the guilt of seeing what you are seeing so hard that it distracts you from the film. It is a powerful and disturbing scene, but it doesn't show contempt for its audience.

That scene I think is Cage's best part because, god drat, his screaming in silence is so brutal in a film with a lot of brutal things. The quite of the scene really sells it for me, where almost all diegetic sound is cut out and we are left with ethereal tones as we see the cult watch, but when we have Red's and Mandy's view its that horrible, grinding guitar that gives way to a hollow whine. My biggest complaint with the scene is Brother Swan interrupting the silence with his "the darker the flame, the darker the whore". While it's a useful bit of developing Swan, showing him probably being the worst out of the bunch for his willingness to do the most heinous acts, I feel it does cut in the scene negatively.

But seriously, Red's silent scream is unbelievably haunting.

I do think not having her appear much in the second half does make the very end stronger. We haven't seen her since her death but then we see what it was like when they met, then we see Red devolve as we cut back and forth from him and his visions of Mandy. It also gave us those ridiculous looks from Cage, which are hilarious out of context but god damned sad in (well, still a little funny).

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.

Blast Fantasto posted:

I do think Mandy will continue to get screened as a Midnight Movie for years to come.

A couple of people have mentioned this in the thread, and maybe it's just that I look at midnight movies differently, but I don't really see it as one. Mandy is fantastic, but it isn't really the kind of "fun" I think about when I think about midnight movies. If more of it were like the Cheddar Goblin and Too Many Cooks throughout I could see it, but it isn't really a movie you gather up your friends for midnight fun. Unless :birddrugs: are involved, that I can see. And even then, having other people there I think would be weird as gently caress on anything higher than :350:. I just don't see this as a movie to get drunk and have a blast. Not that I don't hope for it to continue to get screenings in perpetuity.

Coffee And Pie posted:

No joke, I was loving dreading some rear end in a top hat trying to start a MST3K riff fest during that scene, thankfully everyone shut the gently caress up

People chuckling at Cage's performance in the bathroom I can get because of how outrageous Cage can be combined with laughing being a way to ease uncomfortable tension, but someone quipping during a scene where a guy cries while a visage of his burnt girlfriend is blown away by the wind would just be loving mind boggling.


It's interesting hearing that for so long this was a exploration in "young v old". Hiring Cage really killed that, though I'd argue it just changed to be more of "isolation v community". Red and Mandy are physically isolated from the world but function idyllically as a small community unto themselves. The Children of the New Dawn on the other hand are physically a community, but like how most cults do it, they don't have other connections than with Jeremiah. And even then for some of them, like Mother Marlene, he leaves them completely isolated.

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.

Neo Rasa posted:

I mean, we already know everything's happening from special LSD because Bill Duke looks at us and tells us that. But like Tuxedo Catfish and others have mentioned there isn't a clearly drawn line between magic or not, I don't think "the LSD is magic that does some unexpected stuff" or "the LSD is weird chemicals that do some unexpected stuff" are particularly invalid when a big part of the movie is about that era where flower power "grew up" into parapsychology being a thing actually researched in universities all of which came crashing down hard in the early 80s.

I have now watched this film a LOT, looking for different things. I am still comfortable with the conclusion that the drug and/or mysticism angle is being depicted exactly as Panos intended. Truly, utterly and purposely ambiguous.

What I'm really curious about is what this was like in Panos's head before he realized Cage would be great. He's mentioned that it was originally a "old vs young" angle, and that would really fit the "disillusionment of flower power and mystic healing" but it really mellowed that message having Red and Sand be closer in age.

The Chemist has grown on me, even if his role is that single scene. Even compared to the Black Skulls he seems the most 'mystic' out of everything, blurring the "is it drugs or is it magic" even more. Some how noting that Red is a Jovian warrior and communicating seemingly through thought. I also love how crushed he is by whatever it was that Red communicated to him about Lizzie. It's pretty great. Nothing truly suggests it in the movie, but I like the idea that it was the Chemist that grew the disliking to the Black Skulls, giving them what ever it was that made them them. He is the only one involved with the drugs that openly admits Red was wronged, and he chooses to surrender to Red so he seems like a decent dude compared to the others.

Another thing I think this film should get credit for is that even though it's a nightmare art film, it has some pretty decent fights in it. The chainsaw fight is pretty great and even if Red killing gently caress Pig and Sis isn't very long its still neat to watch. The Bruce Lee zoom as Cage breaks the neck is loving great. As much as I love the scoring for the film, I kinda wish Panos did get Ruleth by Ssleperhood for the fight between Red and the Leader (who is either Scabs or Skratch, who knows :shrug:). Holy poo poo does it work. That fight does give me a smile from the fact that the Leader is using a switchblade even though he has his goofy demon-claw-ring things that have already been already shown to cut people when he caresses Swans face.

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.

Coffee And Pie posted:

There’s gotta be some symbolism in the tighty whities Cage wears. Innocence? Impotence?

The streaks in them represent the demarcation and shift of innocence to guilt. Truly a beautiful visual metaphor.

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.

Ramrod Hotshot posted:

I wish I didn't have to wait another eight years until the next Panos Cosmatos film. It's hard to think of movies I want to see now, because I just want to see Mandy again fresh.

What else can I watch that has the same vibe? Probably nothing out there I haven't already seen. Something with the same dark atmosphere, visuals, and a hint of the unexplainable like Beyond the Black Rainbow (duh); Annihilation; Stalker; Enter the Void; even Event Horizon in some respects.

Anything else?

I would highly recommend The Void (a different film from Enter the Void), but with a big grain a salt. I don't know how that works, but it's a very interesting movie that just doesn't live up to it's potential. It's overt in it's use of supernatural eldritch forces but I feel shares some of the ethereal dread that comes from Mandy. Though I'll say it's faaar closer to Event Horizon than any of the others on your list.

Would have made for a loving amazing TV show or miniseries, giving us more information while also making it so that information means less. Oh well.

Free Drinks fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Oct 13, 2018

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

Not really. At the end of the film, Red quotes Joseph Campbell by way of New Age ultra-kook Stanislav Grof.

Campbell said “the psychotic drowns in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight”, to which Grof added that the mystical experience is often harrowing and not very delightful at all.

Grof pushed LSD experimentation as a means of becoming a “psychonaut” - accessing past lives, achieving ‘cosmic awareness’, reliving prenatal memories, contacting demons and UFOs, etc. Grof was an admirer of, for example, L. Ron Hubbard.

The joke at the end, of course, is that Red is so psychotic that he’s swimming - he’s actually achieved the ultimate mystical experience, making New Agers like Grof and Sand look like fuckin losers by comparison.

That may be the meaning behind it, but I was more referring to the question that's been asked over and over in the thread, "is the crazy poo poo we are seeing because of drugs, or is it supposed to be real?". The answer is ambiguous, the audience wasn't intended to walk away knowing it to be one or the other. Just knowing that Red was corrupted by the events and had surpassed Sand and the others physically and spiritually.

Free Drinks fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Oct 15, 2018

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

Yeah, to fit it into SMG's analogy, people aren't questioning whether Red is drowning or swimming in the waters; they're questioning whether the waters are there at all.

I suppose I am being a little presumptuous (and wrong) about Panos' intent since I am unfamiliar with everything that informed the film.

I just enjoy that it takes a magical realism approach rather than a straight forward or total surreal one. Nothing the Black Skulls do is actually that fantastic. They could endure more than is real but that doesn't need a otherworldly explanation since it is a movie. Generic thugs could have been used but instead the Skulls are nightmarish and bizarre creating an even greater sense of dread, which is fun and interesting.

Edit: I suppose I should say nearly everything the Black Skulls does is fantastic since when the bolt covered one (Scabs I think) is hit by Red's trunk he flips it the gently caress over, which is pretty outlandish.

Free Drinks fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Oct 16, 2018

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

Cosmatos' films are both characterized by their materialism. Yes, the bikers are xenomorphized by hyper-LSD, but they also still live in a house and use a toilet (a nice touch). They're not, like, ghosts or something. They're people.

One thing that struck me about the bathroom was how clean it was considering the house, as though it wasn't used. That might just be grasping at straws though.

I legit thought that the bikers had commandeered the house and were just squatting after having killed the owners, but the basement pit area is an awfully strange feature for normal people to put into their house.

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.

SlimGoodbody posted:

Counterpoint: but what if he DID

The author is dead, long live the author!

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.

Basebf555 posted:

People seem to love to point out that it "doesn't matter" in these kind of discussions but what if it's just fun to think about and talk about? Like, the literal meaning of Jack appearing in the photo at the end of The Shining doesn't "matter" but its still a fun thing to toss around in your head.

Your Parents posted:

Because the story and experience isn't affected either way, really. Its still an emotionally driven movie about coping with loss in a destructive way. It's more fun to believe it's all literal because it's all presented that way on screen, but if you want to be a boring person who goes durr it's all a hallucination it's still fine
That's what kinda what I was trying to articulate about ambiguity but doing so poorly. It was purposefully made to allow you to have fun thinking about the crazy poo poo as real or thinking about the reasons that the crazy poo poo isn't. I think being able to take it either way was intended since it's balanced in so many ways.

The movie is almost exactly 2 hours long and shot is the literal middle.


With time code.

Pretty cleanly cleaves the story right in two.

Free Drinks fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Oct 17, 2018

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.

Marijuana posted:

edit bonus:



I really love this and how he licks his fingers when he puts his hands down. If you don't know anything about LSD, he is soaking the paper with the drug suspended in a solvent. So he's dunking his hands in LSD. His bare hands.There's a reason the guy basically doesn't have irises the whole scene. And it's that. Like, holy poo poo.

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.

felch me daddy jr. posted:

While LSD is indeed an extremely potent drug in terms of dose and licking those fingers would normally hit you like a ton of bricks, LSD tolerance also builds really quickly (as in if you take it two days in a row you'll need about three times the dose on the second day to get the same effect) and if that dude takes it daily, a little lick of his fingers is unlikely to do much. Also, anecdotal evidence from hardcore acid-heads suggest that very large doses will screw up your tolerance for much longer, possibly for life.

Probably the same reason that one dude chugs it like it's beer.

I am aware of the licking part, heck that would mostly be ethanol or another solvent anyway, but the dunking your hands in it all the time would likely be enough to be hosed up 24/7 regardless of tolerance. I mean, obviously in reality there is some point where it wouldn't have the same impact, but if you made acid nearly nude and with bare hands, you would be one hosed up dude.

Free Drinks fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Oct 19, 2018

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.

Well how disappointing.

Edit: Wait, how did Hofmann accidentally dose himself the first time then? I know he purposefully did it after.

Edit Edit: "No, I have accidentally dosed myself while laying sheets, I either touched my eye, or mouth." probably this. Well, the eye touching, not the sheets part.

Trippple Edit: I think we can all agree that The Chemist does not practice good and safe lab procedure.

Free Drinks fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Oct 19, 2018

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.

Ghosthotel posted:

After he runs over one of the black skulls and gets captured the slimiest boy in the bunch walks over to red while he's chained to a pipe and says "You have a death wish" out of his awful mouth.

That one is a lady. No joke. The Black Skulls are a equal opportunity bunch.

She is played by a woman and is named Sis in the credits. I mean, it's not like the gender of a weird, androgynous, black leather, demon-person matters, but hey.

Free Drinks fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Oct 25, 2018

Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.

Doctor Faustine posted:

Can we agree that gently caress Pig has the best name tho?

Yes.

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Free Drinks
Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

He had mere moments left. Of [...] consciousness, of memory as the curse ate away [...] himself. My

Who was the fake editor of this fake book? Ending the page with just 'My'? Terrible formatting. For shame.

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