|
I’ve got a 50mm f/1.4 Rokkor X with some fungus inside the front element. The thing that sucks about these lenses is that the front group is sealed, making it impossible to open up without also destroying it. I know of various ways to treat the lens to at least mitigate the infestation (heat, desiccants, etc.), but what I’m more interested in is if anyone knows a way to remove the physical traces of the fungus. The poo poo’s totally safe from being physically removed. While the group is sealed in my experience with similar lenses it isn’t watertight—is there anything effective I can soak it in that will easily evaporate without leaving residue behind? Goddamn cheap manufacturing processes...
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2019 18:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 30, 2024 21:00 |
|
|
President Beep posted:I’ve got a 50mm f/1.4 Rokkor X with some fungus inside the front element. The thing that sucks about these lenses is that the front group is sealed, making it impossible to open up without also destroying it. Can you get to the front element through removing the back and opening up the aperture blades? I have that same lens but won't be home to look at it until later tonight.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2019 18:56
|
|
|
Yeah, getting the front group out is easy. It’s at that point that progress stops though. What appears to be the two front elements are forever crimped together in a housing so you can’t access the inner surfaces. You can’t further tear it down like with the older Rokkors.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2019 19:01
|
|
|
So I didn't affix the lens to the front of my camera correctly and when I dropped the front standard it bounced off into the river I was shooting at. The lens itself is fine but the shutter (Copal 0) is going to need to be taken apart and cleaned out. My first thought was to take off the front cover, give it a good bath in shellite then blow as much of the liquid out as I could with a film air duster. Is there any other approach I should take, or anything I'm not thinking off about why I shouldn't use shellite? Would Isopropyl be better?
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2019 04:09
|
|
|
I think I remember reading at some point that soaking the entire shutter housing in isopropyl works for mucked up copals, but I haven't tried it personally, and dunno how shellac would effect things. If you haven't yet, go ogling for tips on how to lube up stiff copals might help you out? I did some research when trying to figure out how to smooth out my rough aperture wheel for my Yashica mat 124.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2019 04:34
|
|
|
Well this has turned into a full tear down and clean. I just got the aperture blades back in place, the timing mechanism and shutter seem good after a good alcohol bath. I want to avoid tearing that down as much as possible. I've got some good learnings on that Aperture assembly after an afternoon of combat with it so if anyone else drops a copal 0 into a river hmu.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2019 09:25
|
|
|
Just imagining the “ploop” sound it made as it went in. Must’ve been a great look on your face too.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2019 12:42
|
|
|
Since the thread is fairly active at the moment, anyone have any suggestions for cleaning out fungus from lenses? I got a Mamiya C220 with two lenses - one looks fairly cleanable, but the other has the worst case of fungus I've ever seen. It looks like the glass is frosted! It might be too far gone, in which case I might just use it to practice breaking down and rebuilding copal shutters.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2019 19:09
|
|
|
With a badly infected lens I pretty much completely dismantle it, dunk everything in hydrogen peroxide to kill the fungus and spores, scrub in detergent (I want to get an ultrasonic for this someday), regrease the helicoids and reassemble. Its a big job but that crap will just keep growing back anytime it gets some warmth. When its just a few spots on the glass you can usually unscrew the elements from the barrel without a full tear down and give them a dunking in peroxide. Clean up with your usual lens cleaning routine and put the glass back; hopefully in the right place and right away around. Most lenses glass assemblies only require removing the front bezel and the lens mount to get at the glass.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2019 20:17
|
|
|
President Beep posted:Just imagining the “ploop” sound it made as it went in. Must’ve been a great look on your face too. As soon as I heard it I knew exactly what happened. Just given the shutter and slow speed mechanisms a good ultrasonic bath, going to oil all the pionions next and then attack the shutter blades. They kept on sticking open so I think I have their order wrong, and there's a shim and don't know under which blade it goes but we're getting there.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2019 01:11
|
|
|
https://i.imgur.com/Gy68M1Q.gifv My biggest hurdle with this was getting the shutter blades working correctly. With none of the cams in place that set the shutters configuration it defaults to Time mode and I found the trick to it was to cycle it half way and set the leaves on while the shutter was open. Megabound fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Nov 30, 2019 |
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2019 06:58
|
|
|
Canon TLb with 50mm prime. The mirror hangs up after firing every shot. Loosening the lens collar or giving the body a rap on the bottom drop it back into place. Good way to stop the binding?
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2019 23:29
|
|
|
Butch Cassidy posted:Canon TLb with 50mm prime. The mirror hangs up after firing every shot. Loosening the lens collar or giving the body a rap on the bottom drop it back into place. Good way to stop the binding? My best guess is it just requires some lubing up, especially if it sticks without the lens on. If it stops sticking when you take the lens off, I guess check to see if there’s anything sticking out on the lens that might be blocking it? Since jiggering with the camera seems to loosen it up, I’m guessing it’s due to gunked up parts. Some Isopropyl Alcohol or Ronsonol should be good to clean them out, if you can figure out where it’s getting stuck, which might be the more difficult task and may require taking some of the camera apart. If you can’t figure out where it might be sticking, you could try putting a few drops of isopropyl into some of the machinery, it probably won’t hurt anything but may flush the gunk into other parts of the camera. Here's a video for at least partially taking the camera apart, in case it comes to that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0l6hcbI6Kw
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2019 23:43
|
|
|
Thanks, I've got some naphtha on the workbench so will try that in the morning. E: Some schmutz had pooled at the bottom edge of the mirror in two spots. I had previously run my finger along that edge to feel for protrusions but they weren't noticeable. Only caught them in light at the correct angle after noticing a brushed arc on the back of the lens. Removed the two bits of pooled and hardened whatever and the camera is running properly, now. Thanks again, goon. Butch Cassidy fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Dec 8, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 04:41
|
|
|
I have a Rolleiflex 2.8GX in otherwise great condition. Unfortunately, the focus calibration between its viewing lens and taking lens is off - by a lot. The taking lens appears to be fine, it focuses to infinity or to measured distances. I verified these using both a spare ground glass taped on the rails on the back, and using film tests. The viewing lens focuses in front of the taking lens (so it can't focus on infinity) - for objects at around 3m distance, the knob has to be turned to around 4m to get the viewing lens in focus. I adjusted some old Rolleis with similar problems, with some success, using the ground glass taped on the back trick. However, for those Rolleis, there were two small slots around the circumference of the viewing lens. Using a lens spanner fit to those slots, the front element of the viewing lens could be screwed in or out to make fine adjustments of focus. On this 2.8GX, I can't see any slots on the circumference of the lens. I think there may be some sort of front cover hiding them (or maybe they use a completely different method). For comparison, here's the viewing lens of a 2.8C, with the slots:  The 2.8GX, with no slots:  Does anyone have a hint on how to adjust the viewing lens here?
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 21:43
|
|
|
k-zed posted:Does anyone have a hint on how to adjust the viewing lens here? I can't help on how to adjust the viewing lens, but could the ground glass be out of position?
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 21:46
|
|
|
If the viewing lens sticks forward enough to get a grip on, you could try loosening it that way with rubber pliers or something. Alternatively, you may need to unscrew it from the back, either by removing the mirror or by removing the front leather and removing the whole lens casing that way. I haven't been able to find much info on that particular model, but looking up repair info on similar rolleis may help?
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 22:07
|
|
|
You don't want to adjust the viewing lens that way anyhow. You've loosened it from its socket on the older Rolleis and its free to vibrate its way out or get knocked out of focus even more with handling. The viewing lens is screwed tightly into a tube that is screwed into the lens board. A jam nut locks the tube in place. Unfortunately to adjust things properly you need to take the front cover off and that also involves prying up the leatherette. Here's a good series of posts on adjusting Rolleiflex focus. Its for an Automat but I'm pretty sure all models use the same method. How to fix Rolleiflex Automat, Testing Focus How to fix Rolleiflex Automat, Front cover Disassembly How to fix Rolleiflex Automat, Setting focus
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 23:19
|
|
|
Sauer posted:You don't want to adjust the viewing lens that way anyhow. You've loosened it from its socket on the older Rolleis and its free to vibrate its way out or get knocked out of focus even more with handling. The viewing lens is screwed tightly into a tube that is screwed into the lens board. A jam nut locks the tube in place. Unfortunately to adjust things properly you need to take the front cover off and that also involves prying up the leatherette. These links are wonderful, adding them to the resources in the OP.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2019 00:32
|
|
|
Sauer posted:You don't want to adjust the viewing lens that way anyhow. You've loosened it from its socket on the older Rolleis and its free to vibrate its way out or get knocked out of focus even more with handling. The viewing lens is screwed tightly into a tube that is screwed into the lens board. A jam nut locks the tube in place. Unfortunately to adjust things properly you need to take the front cover off and that also involves prying up the leatherette.  What he said. Don't just stick the spanner in there and rotate the viewing lens. You can see in the pic above why. Do it properly - aka take the leather and then the entire front off. I swear to god I've had like three Rolleiflexes that had been handled like that and two had the grub screw shorn off or damaged. It made me want to kill that dumb rear end in a top hat that did that. Again, do it properly. Taking lens focus is adjusted by taking off the focus knob and loosening the nut so that the front standard can be racked back and forth freely. Use ground glass to adjust infinity position. Put focus knob and nut back on. Set viewing lens to agree with the taking lens on infinity. There you are. Sorta post-script: IMO the Rolleiflex GX/FX is kina crap. I disliked the one I tried a lot: it's cheapened, the light meter is horrible, the automat mechanism is gone, lots of plastic inside, the lens also offered no advantages whatsoever over the 2.8F Planar. So I ended up selling it, for a profit, go figure. Get an "2.8F" model save your bucks, get the better camera. Edit: Sorry, made image less obscenely large. VomitOnLino fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Dec 11, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2019 06:48
|
|
|
Sauer posted:You don't want to adjust the viewing lens that way anyhow. You've loosened it from its socket on the older Rolleis and its free to vibrate its way out or get knocked out of focus even more with handling. The viewing lens is screwed tightly into a tube that is screwed into the lens board. A jam nut locks the tube in place. Unfortunately to adjust things properly you need to take the front cover off and that also involves prying up the leatherette. Thanks, this is very helpful!
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2019 08:04
|
|
|
I'm tempted to make an offer on this lens with a fungus problem. It's a rare lens, for what I would consider a great price, but obviously the question of whether it can be adequately cleaned is a concern. Also the marks on the retaining ring where someone tried to open the lens and slipped... Yikes. Looks like they didn't damage the glass though. Does anyone have experience cleaning fungus out of lenses? 
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2019 20:29
|
|
|
Looks like it's on the back face of the front element. Cleaning it would be trivial. Wind off the nameplate with something rubber. The element likely has its own retaining ring. Unscrew that with same rubber bit. Tip out lens and soak it in peroxide. Then clean it however you like to cleans lenses and put it back together. Or don't. That's almost no fungus and would probably have no effect on images. Just keep it cool and dry. Be more concerned about the aperture operation. It might have oil contamination since that lens has been stored somewhere warm enough to encourage critter growth and warm oil migrates.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2019 20:42
|
|
|
Past fuckup aside, that ring should come off if you’re careful with the spanner, and as long as the front group isn’t some sealed abomination like what I was dealing with upthread you’ll be able to remove the fungus with some gentle cleaning. Whether or not the coatings are hosed up is another matter though. It’s something I’d personally take a chance on, given what you say about rarity and price, but it’s definitely a crap shoot to some degree. You could end up with a totally rehabilitated lens, one that’s clean but with compromised coatings, or it could even turn out that the group isn’t physically serviceable. I also suggest doing some reading online/searching youtube to see if you can find any teardowns.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2019 20:44
|
|
|
Cool, thanks. I'm gonna go for it. I'll probably attempt to clean it and I'll document it for the thread if I do.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2019 20:50
|
|
|
rockear posted:Cool, thanks. I'm gonna go for it. I'll probably attempt to clean it and I'll document it for the thread if I do. If you use an adjustable spanner it helps if you use one of your thumbs to apply pressure towards the outside. I'd show you how I hold it but I'm at work, so I can't. This way you may nick up the filter thread, but not the glass if you slip. Ideally though as Prez. Beep & Sauer says a rubber stopper or tube is your best bet for undoing those.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2019 02:59
|
|
|
So I stumbled onto this youtube channel recently, Daito Camera: youtube.com/user/daitocamera/videos All his videos are in Japanese, unfortunately, but they're still valuable even if you don't understand the language. He livestreams camera repairs, and uploads the recordings of the streams. Even if you can't understand him, it's fairly easy to tell what he's doing and watch him walk through the process of taking a camera apart, cleaning it, etc. Might be valuable to wade through his videos and see if he's working on a camera you plan to work on, he has a huge library of videos and has worked on a wide range of cameras. In his most recent video he also showed off an English site called "Learn Camera Repair" which has a huge depository of camera service manuals!
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2020 18:59
|
|
|
CodfishCartographer posted:So I stumbled onto this youtube channel recently, Daito Camera: youtube.com/user/daitocamera/videos Nice. Gonna check him out. Just today I watched a video from Japan about an old Konica P&S and with autotranslated subtitles on it was actually pretty easy to follow. e: Holy poo poo. This guy's prolific. President Beep fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Jan 7, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2020 20:43
|
|
|
Has anybody ever successfully taken a regular lens and modified it into a soft focus lens? I have a piece of poo poo lens I could practice on, but I do not know if this DIY project would be significantly more expensive than just picking up a soft focus lens.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2020 03:52
|
|
|
Or just put some vaseline on the front element.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2020 04:37
|
|
|
Helen Highwater posted:Or just put some vaseline on the front element. That is exactly what I wanted to avoid. I know I can put vaseline on a front filter and keep the lens clean, but part of the experiment is also to get educated.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2020 04:44
|
|
|
I only removed one screw and this happened! But seriously Pentax PK-Mount lenses are some of the nicest lenses to work on. Highly modular with quality of life features for the technician. I'll post some details later when I'm done with this one.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2020 02:59
|
|
|
I had a 40mm Hexanon pancake apart earlier today. Had to reset the focus ring to correctly reference infinity and it was a snap compared to the Rokkors I usually delve into. On those if you’re off a bit reassembling the helical you’ve got to start over. On the Hexanon you just loosen three little screws and turn the focus ring until the marks are correctly set.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2020 03:27
|
|
|
I’d also like to take this opportunity to say that I have quite a few successes under my belt tearing into and then reassembling prime lenses, but my record with zooms is still something like 0-3. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2020 03:31
|
|
|
To be fair, zooms are way more complicated. I kind of want to get one just to try taking it apart but i know i'd just gently caress it up royally
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2020 03:46
|
|
|
Yeah I really should get a junker zoom to play around with but I have no real interest in ever shooting with one.
Sauer fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Jan 12, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2020 04:37
|
|
|
In the end that’s where I’m at too. The old ones are pretty crappy in general, and I’m disinclined to start taking apart AF lenses.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2020 05:10
|
|
|
I have a Pentax-M 35mm f/2 and a 105mm f2.8 that have the usual oily blade problem. Never taken apart a lens from this series and wanted to practice first before I wreck some rather nice expensive lenses so I bought a cheapo 50mm f/2 with fungus and oil everywhere to see if there's any surprises. There were good surprises. I don't know if this will remain the case with the other two lenses I have to work on but this one had a few nice convenience features that made working in it a piece of cake. Someone else has been in here before me, don't leave apprentice marks folks and use a rubber doohicky instead of those crappy lens spanners.  If you are the last guy inside a lens don't leave an ocean of oil everywhere. There's no spring to go loose and sproing everywhere.  After the mount is off the aperture ring slides off and has this little bit that will immediately disappear the moment you stop looking at it. There are also three screws that allows the back of the lens to slide off in one piece giving you access to the helicoid keys without having to dismantle anything else.  The aperture comes out as a single assembly. In the lower left corner there is a little window.  When remounting the aperture assembly you can tell you've got it in the right spot when the window is empty like in the photo above. If any aperture blade is visible like in the photo below you need to turn the assembly a little more before tightening the screws.  Flip that tube over and the aperture mechanism itself slides out giving you easy access to the blades. No more futzing around deep in the guts of a lens to remount blades.  The screws of one of the helicoid keys are countersunk. These have to go back in the same place because the aperture lever arm sits above them. The other key's screws are raised and will interfere with the lever.  There are not very many parts and the screws for each sub assembly are different sizes so you can't mix them up. The helicoids have tight tolerances so the course helicoid is pretty hard to get back together. I had to wiggle them around for a good bit before they threaded.  Reassembling is a piece of cake since everything only goes back together one way. Its very straight forward and almost self documenting. You do need to mark the helicoid alignments and the alignment of the focus ring but that's normal for any manual focus lens.  If I didn't take time to photograph each step I probably could have been in and out of this lens in an hour. I also experimented with using india ink to reblack the chipped blacking on the lens elements that have it. That worked just fine. I also used a different lubricant for the helicoids. I normally use Helimax-XP but after using it for a while in some of my other lenses I'm finding it too thick. It adds quite a bit of resistance to the focus and is particularly bad on some of my larger lenses. I tried Super Lube 51004 which is actually a thick oil and it feels almost exactly like whatever Pentax used originally. The focus dampening is nearly identical to my other Pentax-M lenses. Sauer fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Jan 12, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2020 06:23
|
|
|
Great breakdown! I've been considering picking up some junk lenses / cameras to practice on, and maybe even see if I can fix them up / restore them. Did you have any luck cleaning up that practice lens, or did you not even try? Also, while I hate seeing evidence of sloppy work when I open something up, it's kind of fun to see some evidence of a previous repair. One lens I did a CLA on had some helpful marks on the helicoids already there, that didn't look like they were from the manufacturer. It is kind of a neat feeling seeing them, it feels kind of like saying hi to someone through time. I always try to imagine what they were trying to fix, or who they were. I wonder if anyone will one day open up the stuff I've worked on, and see some of the slight evidence I've left behind, and wonder what I was doing and who I was?
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2020 09:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 30, 2024 21:00 |
|
|
If anyone wants copies of the National Camera Technical Training Course, this guy has most of it up on his site with apparently the rest to come later. There are also a poo poo ton of service manuals and parts diagrams from a whole bunch of different manufacturers. They are all offered as free PDF downloads.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2020 12:22
|
|