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GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011

Both times Apollo kicked my rear end or gave me trouble I updated the gently caress out of my equipment and proceeded to school Shizuka right after.

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Smart Car
Mar 31, 2011

In my experience Shizuka is pretty difficult if you haven't upgraded your gear with the good stuff from Rhombus Square, and made significantly easier if you have.

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
Yeah I remember Shizuka being weirdly easy, on my first playthrough I got bodied by Apollo the first two times and narrowly won on the third, and then got straight wins against Shizuka until it was called. It turns out being able to restock HP in a duel is absurd? I never tried playing with the Wave decoys but I hear they are pretty busted too.

nrook
Jun 25, 2009

Just let yourself become a worthless person!
I definitely rushed into that last duel undergeared and got stomped.

Hey, I wanted to know what was gonna happen in the story, I didn’t have time to wander around in a big rhombus!

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
Question: Is it possible to save-edit to mess with Trophies? Specifically, is it possible to re-lock some of them? I had to re-do So'najiz Temple for the LP and of course having done it once on any of my saves I now always have the Trophies unlocked and while I can address some of this stuff with Editing Magic I'd like to be able to just always have the drat things pop on camera in my good runs.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011

IIRC the game internally checks for achievements every time you open it so achievement editors will just make the achievement pop on the main menu. I dunno about save editing but try asking the official crosscode discord, if the modders there can't pull it off then I don't think anyone can.

GimmickMan fucked around with this message at 13:46 on May 19, 2021

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
I can't believe I never tried leaving Pumpkin Fun Land until Emilie was back in the team before :allears:

SirSamVimes
Jul 21, 2008

~* Challenge *~


Oh no, you monster.

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
While I'm in here musing about stuff to get footage of, once you clear Grand Krys'kajo you can mix and match party members. I went around Autumn's Rise and Bergen Trail with Apollo and Joern and was disappointed to find they don't seem to have much to say about any of the enemies there. I presume they'll have input when I eventually take them through Sapphire Ridge. Are there any situations where you get chatter between mixed up parties, like, I'd expect Apollo and C'Tron to have some fun chats about the lore and stuff, but is any of it actually implemented?

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011

Not that I recall, though Emilie and C'Tron do have lines for Gaia's Garden I think as far as "hidden" banters go. I vaguely remember Emilie having lines with monsieur grasshead but not their actual contents so I could be wrong.

The DLC is better about that. In there you have some good banters between (DLC character spoilers) Luke and Lukas, Luke/Lukas and Emilie, Shizuka and Emilie and (my favorite) Shizuka and Apollo.

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
So, yeah, it turns out Apollo and Joern have basically loving nothing to say about Sapphire Ridge except they do have some unique input about the Test of Patience. They even make Emilie just show up at the start and talk about the giant bugs, just so you can't miss that (although you then miss out on her continually escalating despair in the area).

I did find a slightly notable secret-ish thing in whichBuggy takes his DL schtick a bit too far and you can go and talk* to him after and he gives you some Gold Bars as an apology.

AweStriker
Oct 6, 2014

Fedule posted:

So, yeah, it turns out Apollo and Joern have basically loving nothing to say about Sapphire Ridge except they do have some unique input about the Test of Patience. They even make Emilie just show up at the start and talk about the giant bugs, just so you can't miss that (although you then miss out on her continually escalating despair in the area).

I did find a slightly notable secret-ish thing in which Buggy takes his DL schtick a bit too far and you can go and talk* to him after and he gives you some Gold Bars as an apology.

I got the Buggy thing but oh how conflicted I was over “do I bring Emilie along in Sapphire Ridge”.

Speaking of, though, will attempting to get the key item required to obtain the Ridge Booster lock me into trying to find the secret place?

Smart Car
Mar 31, 2011

Fedule posted:

So, yeah, it turns out Apollo and Joern have basically loving nothing to say about Sapphire Ridge except they do have some unique input about the Test of Patience. They even make Emilie just show up at the start and talk about the giant bugs, just so you can't miss that (although you then miss out on her continually escalating despair in the area).
Doing the Test of Patience without party members is also great. Sergey tries very hard to be helpful.

Venuz Patrol
Mar 27, 2011

AweStriker posted:

I got the Buggy thing but oh how conflicted I was over “do I bring Emilie along in Sapphire Ridge”.

Speaking of, though, will attempting to get the key item required to obtain the Ridge Booster lock me into trying to find the secret place?

No, you'll get cut scenes explaining that it's the right location, but you're not forced to complete it on the spot

AweStriker
Oct 6, 2014

Smart Car posted:

Doing the Test of Patience without party members is also great. Sergey tries very hard to be helpful.

I agree, this was the best part of the area for me since I did it alone.

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
One of the great things about doing LP stuff is that I'm finally compelled to check out entire swaths of combat arts I never bothered with before. Like Karma Scale! In the Shizuka duel I used to just try and tank her Gatling Arctillery with Guard Sphere or KO her before she uses it, but now I've learned there really is a hard counter to it. More generally I've just finally started working all kinds of arts on the fly. Having an SP Fountain build is so much fun.

I really did spend like three hours yesterday trying to get the Perfect Take of that duel, and, well

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
Folks I need you to be honest with me about something;

Are the names of the moth type enemies, Pada Moth, Darth Moth, and Sandamoth, a really stupid star wars prequel reference, or has this game finally broken me?

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011

I never thought of them that way but I basically never catch SW references. Now that you do mention it, Darth Moth does seem kind of on the nose.

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
I ran up a New Game Plus and rolled my own Heaven or Hell mode by taking both Sergey Hax and Prepare to Hi (and Witch Time).

It was, uh, quite something. CrossCode is not even in the slightest bit balanced towards an ideal playstyle where you take no damage. Every applicable strategy fails. Stuff goes through your shields. Guard Sphere is useless. I never knew how many chip damage sources there were. Mostly this isn't a problem if you can also kill everything in one hit, but any encounter that's fast and dodgy and fires a lot of bullets is a bit of a problem.

It took me, uh, twelve hours to beat the final boss. Talk about an experience.

Venuz Patrol
Mar 27, 2011
most of the bosses seem like they would be really fun to learn in Prepare to Hi mode, but i wouldn't want to play through the seahorse fights of the overworld to get to them

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011

There's a handful of bosses that I can't imagine beating without hp regen (plus defensive buffs in some cases) so, while I love the idea of Prepare to Hi!, it's not something I could tackle on my own. Godspeed with the DLC you crazy bastard.

defaultluser
Jan 13, 2007

The person can drink sake for the following five reasons. First of all, for the national holiday. Moreover, it fills with the nectar. Finally, for reasons. Next, to heal the dryness of the place. After that, to refuse the future
Fun Shoe
I'm having trouble getting any more hives from beearbot. Anyone know how to get it to drop?thanks to it's painful healing loop, I usually take forever to break it (so maybe need this to be faster?)

I've killed nearly 10, but only go t a single drop; the promised 50 percent drop rate is bull

defaultluser fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Jun 7, 2021

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






-If you're looking to farm a singular tough enemy for a drop, save and quit to respawn it so you aren't waiting a while.
-You can stun one of those bears from the rear. If you're still having trouble after it starts munching honey, go for melee strikes and get your assault up.

defaultluser
Jan 13, 2007

The person can drink sake for the following five reasons. First of all, for the national holiday. Moreover, it fills with the nectar. Finally, for reasons. Next, to heal the dryness of the place. After that, to refuse the future
Fun Shoe
I think the other problem I have with the temple is the near instant cessation of the battle loop - makes it near impossible to guarantee a minimum rank

I will try quitting

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011

What I did was start the battle with a stun tech to facilitate hitting them on the back a bunch and break them before the stun ends. It didn't always work but even when it didn't it went by faster than fighting them the hard way.

defaultluser
Jan 13, 2007

The person can drink sake for the following five reasons. First of all, for the national holiday. Moreover, it fills with the nectar. Finally, for reasons. Next, to heal the dryness of the place. After that, to refuse the future
Fun Shoe
finally got enough for the Tremor Mirage plus Pioneer Vest+, and the game is so much easier
It seems like a big defensive hit over refl+, but the huge bump in hp plus massive regen makes the difference

defaultluser
Jan 13, 2007

The person can drink sake for the following five reasons. First of all, for the national holiday. Moreover, it fills with the nectar. Finally, for reasons. Next, to heal the dryness of the place. After that, to refuse the future
Fun Shoe
finally finished all those grueling puzzlers that last boss will take most of the weekend to figure out

excellent dlc

SirSamVimes
Jul 21, 2008

~* Challenge *~


The final boss of the dungeon is absolutely grueling but incredibly satisfying. I loved it.

defaultluser
Jan 13, 2007

The person can drink sake for the following five reasons. First of all, for the national holiday. Moreover, it fills with the nectar. Finally, for reasons. Next, to heal the dryness of the place. After that, to refuse the future
Fun Shoe

SirSamVimes posted:

The final boss of the dungeon is absolutely grueling but incredibly satisfying. I loved it.



Worth it, though took me a couple hours n lowest difficulty looking at newgame+, Prepare to hi sounds nuts

I may restart the game with some of these enabled

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
CrossCode now has a native PS5 version!

Good News: It's a free upgrade from the PS4 version, it's like 1/6 the install size, and it's 120fps and 4K (well, the game's internal res with like 6x scaling or whatever) and it looks good as poo poo.

Extremely Bad News: Absolutely no save import capability. God drat it Sony.

gandlethorpe
Aug 16, 2008

:gowron::m10:
Silver lining - an excuse to play from the beginning again

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
Very true, and also if you own a PS5 and haven't played it yet (or know someone else in such a situation) then this is basically one of those signs from the universe.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011

I just got Peace of Mind, the Bergen Trials achievement.

I want to thank the academy, my family and the calm and relaxing music from hollow knight compilation i was listening to this morning for getting this award with KB+M.

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
After being hype for it for months I finally got around to the DLC (on PS4. God, my PS4 save was a mess. I missed so many chests).

It's good. It delivers.

I was, as was probably everyone, deeply curious to see how they were going to resolve the C'tron situation. He was very obviously a spy and Sergey had very obviously forced him out somehow, but he did a lot of things that in retrospect were also very interesting, most notably going out of his way to patch things up between Emilie and Lea after the raid. I had expectations. I was expecting something more or less exactly like the very first explanation offered re: what C'tron's deal was; not actually Sidwell, but a worker in his employ, just a regular interchangeable gamer, paid off, the perfect cover. I should have known; this is a boring supposition. It doesn't go hard at all! It's just not CrossCode. Being a copy of an enslaved copy of Sidwell and having a recursive mental breakdown over it is back up to the high-intensity going-hard antics I expect. That said, I'm not sure if the almost-final plot beat that C'tron was one of many evotar copies passively operating within the game to enact long-term surveillance was supposed to be a big surprise; it was tipped more or less right after C'tron's return and felt extremely obvious, but later the game seems to treat it as a reveal. Of course right after that we get hit with a lab full of dead clones and the copy/copy reveal.

The new overworld is an absolutely masterful game-design shitpost. It's so obvious in retrospect. There was nowhere else CrossCode's overworld design could have gone. We've seen all the high-level approaches already, and there's not enough space to accommodate an entirely new one and have it be organic, so instead the whole thing is a giant line, with the sole real deviation being another line, equal and opposite, going back around, and your party complains each time it goes on for yet another screen.

I feel like once again the whole game assumes you're going to roll everywhere with Emilie and C'tron, because once again, they seem to have all the dialog. I went exploring around the area with every interesting party I could think of; Apollo and Joern of course, Luke and Lukas, C'tron and Luke, Apollo and Shizuka, Apollo and C'tron; I barely found any interesting dialogues, and what I did find seemed exclusively to be two or three line scenes coming out of S-rank streaks. Am I missing something? I was really hoping there'd be more to this.

The new dungeon is obscene. Holy poo poo. It's everything I ever dared dream it would be. They did it. They really did it. They found one last stop to pull out, and then another. They held nothing back. On top of everything else, they introduced a new puzzle element that blows the rest of the game design wide open. It's full of astonishingly good rooms but honestly I don't think anything can top the first time you go a little way in any direction past the hub zone and it starts dawning on you what these meteor chunks are capable of, and the implications it has on the rest of the dungeon. It's massive, and interestingly interconnected, and beautiful, and it's basically just awe-inspiring. And you can tell Emilie not to race. gently caress, they know. They've learned. They've heard. They're growing more powerful.

I'm extremely curious if there's supposed to be any kind of a canonical notion of Instatainment having any kind of awareness of Gautham's late-career level design work. The Crater Temple is the only place outside of Vermillion Tower and the mini-dungeons from the Platform Quests (and, I guess, Grand Krys'kajo) that openly mixes up elements like that, and the boss fight doesn't employ any damage hax but does take a lot of cues from The Creator, particularly the charged up puzzle-interruptable elemental supers, and even the little cutscene intro with the music kicking in.

That boss is a motherfucker and three quarters. I love it, mostly. I did it with mostly a focus build, but also with some HP up and stacks of SP regen. It's absolutely relentless but it's masterable in like six different ways. They had me using all the tricks. I can KO any of those floating motherfuckers in a round if I decide to. I think D himself is a little too chunky, and they're quite stingy with the vulnerability. I don't like that it doesn't feel possible to one-round each phase, but on the other hand I don't mind at all getting to chump the other guys again. But guys. Guys. What. The gently caress. Is with the black and white bullshit? I never figured that attack out. I just tanked the whole thing with Guard Sphere. Before that it ended three attempts. It's a fun fight, but god drat. The last phase is some serious poo poo, a real study in keeping your cool.

CrossWorlds ending with a loving barebones transparent sequel hook is perfect. There wasn't really anything else they could have done. CrossWorlds has always been bland; why would this one-of-a-kind simulation platform need to bother dressing up its telepresence theme-park video game any more than it absolutely needed to? Plus, it's doing the CrossCode irony layer trick again, where the in-game game ends in the game's expansion with tease for the in-game game's expansion, which is more or less a direct reference to how the game itself ended on a tease for the game's expansion. I can't wait for Radical Fish to announce that they were lying about Project Terra not being anything to do with CrossCode. It would be on-brand.

The quests were a lovely little greatest hits victory lap tour. The hillkat invasion of Rhombus City was a blast. I can't believe it took a backer to give us a car chase encounter. The new Rhombus Square areas generally were great and suitably infuriating to unpick. I'm guessing the one ninja guy is a serial backer self-insert? Plus I guess they went around systematically addressing the completely dropped sidequest plot threads, like the weapon smuggling and the Goatfather, which is a wrong righted at last. Also, some of the quests are bugged to poo poo on PS4 and are uncompletable. Two quests with scripted encounters where you have to capture enemies just softlock at the start of the fight, and Son of the Beach just hard crashes the game when he attacks in his Wave form. Patch plz.

At long last, they wised up and gave Apollo a repeatable duel! Oh and a canon ship. I guess too many people were asking.

SirSamVimes
Jul 21, 2008

~* Challenge *~


Black & White attack isn't that bad imo. You just dash away from the rotating beam, then when the crisscross of lines appears you have about half a second to dash to one of the safe spots. It's tough, but never felt undoable to me.

I 100% agree that the dungeon/final boss very much feel like the absolute culmination of all CrossCode design. When I realised that the New Puzzle Element a) did a different thing for every element you hit it with b) can merge with every other puzzle element you've encountered in the game I was like... a mixture of :allears: and :stonk:. It's just so very... CrossCode.


IMO the DLC is just... CrossCode but more. More ridiculous puzzles. More boss fights. More overworld exploration fuckery. More Apollo Duel. More emotional trauma.

Also yeah the ninja guy is a backer who has self-inserted into a whole bunch of kickstarters as a backer. Here's another notable appearance of his.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldR8E3q4L50

Which is why I love the fact that his quest is all about out of place monsters appearing where they shouldn't be, and ends with his character getting permanently banned from CrossWorlds.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


I got some Luke and Lukas dialogue running around the new area with them. Maybe it only happens before some point?

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011

You don't have to S-Rank to trigger the party banter in the PC version so that's weird. As for whether there's more than what you found , well, not really. I think you missed Emilie+Shizuka, most notably. Emilie+Luke/Lukas also have a bit of banter between them while beating up turtles. That's it. I think what we got was good (the Shizuka ones are fantastic, IMO), but it would've been nice to have more than that as you say.

Of the backer self-inserts, the most notables imo are Reize, who is infamous for being in a bajillion indie titles and Sao whose quest gets resolved in the most "restraint is for cowards" way possible.

Honestly my favorite part of the whole DLC is the World's Longest Platforming Puzzle overworld bit. Emilie's lines echoed my thoughts during the whole thing. She truly was one with her role as the voice of the people.

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
Good lord, it took me three complete runthroughs but I finally managed to get a good take for the LP where I beat Emilie through Ku'lero Temple (while also seeing all the conversations). I clocked 1 hour 55 minutes by my count (I still don't know what things other than literally pausing pause the timer but I'm assuming nothing). In absolute awe at this dungeon. I still have not forgotten the primal fear I felt the first time the meteor blobs started combining with other puzzle elements.

Also, I beat Son of the Beach for the first time, since on the PS4 version whenever he uses his Wave melee it crashes the game. He is some bullshit. More like, son of a--

I almost hope there is some secret metric collection in this game, only because I would love some official confirmation that absolutely zero people actually loving chose to exile C'tron given the choice. I mean what the gently caress, why is this even an option? I am not recording it, not even for completion.

Am I right in thinking there's no further elaboration ever on the Vermillion Cup? Sergey mentions wanting us to do it, but there doesn't seem to be any place for any kind of followup.

It's been amusing checking back over the handful of predictions I made back when.

Fedule posted:

I hope the new dungeon is so goddamn convoluted, I hope there are chests that require round trips through every screen.

This turned out to be the overworld and not the dungeon, but, well, gonna chalk that one up as #nailedit.

Fedule posted:

I hope there are bouncyball puzzles that make Gautham's big dumb ultimate puzzle room capstone look like Zelda puzzles.

Four of the loving things in a sequence, in fact.

Fedule posted:

Anyway, I look forward to the epilogue's final scene, where Lea's speech sync is finally fixed, and she prepares for a grand emotional event with the First Scholars, walks up to the board, just says "Lea." and walks out, smash cut to credits.

This wound up not being the final scene but it absolutely happened as written and it was always going to because that's just what Lea's like.

Venuz Patrol
Mar 27, 2011

Fedule posted:

Am I right in thinking there's no further elaboration ever on the Vermillion Cup? Sergey mentions wanting us to do it, but there doesn't seem to be any place for any kind of followup.

that would be an arena challenge. it probably has all the bosses and monsters from the main plot that aren't technically canon. you can go through some steps to unlock arena challenges for the dlc content too

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Head Hit Keyboard
Oct 9, 2012

It must be fate that has brought us together after all these years.

Fedule posted:

Am I right in thinking there's no further elaboration ever on the Vermillion Cup? Sergey mentions wanting us to do it, but there doesn't seem to be any place for any kind of followup.

Yeah it pretty much just exists because every other fight in the game is represented but since Vermillion Wasteland is uhhh... they came up with some other justification for the cup's existence.

Fedule posted:

This wound up not being the final scene but it absolutely happened as written and it was always going to because that's just what Lea's like.

:allears:

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