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Zesty posted:It always comes down to whether people personally like you. Always. "Big moves" don't matter as much, but you still should do something. I finished it, I'm onto BvW2 now. I didn't know that about Woo, that's really crummy. Even more good reasons he did not deserve to win! And re: the Tony talk, I think I said earlier or I meant to, but he's like a good Russell. Did a lot of Russell poo poo, made people who he perceived as betraying him end up leaving, but managed to do it in a way people kept following him and not being outright hostile. I suspect we hate him more as a viewer, or me anyway, but even pointed out with cops you love em or hate em and as a matter of course I hate a cop until given ample reason not to. He never gave me any reason to like him, but I was compelled to have respect for his game anyway and at several points I was glad to see him get his way because the dingdongs along the way never made the smart moves. It's like, gently caress, Tony's not gone, but goddamnit it's their own fault. Regard BvW2/SJDS - I'm guessing CBS put giant bigoted baseball boy on the show just because controversy = attention? I googled him so I know he's going bye bye soon, but drat what a piece of poo poo who only doubled down on his bullshit through time. Khanstant fucked around with this message at 05:53 on Jan 21, 2019 |
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Jan 21, 2019 04:25
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Rob got a 2 hour Davie interview up today. 
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Jan 21, 2019 06:18
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I like to believe that John Rocker's presence was at least a little because people like me so relished watching that piece of poo poo suffer. I still hold a serious issue with CBS and Survivor for casting that bigoted prick.
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Jan 21, 2019 07:05
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I think Tony being a good and competent Russell is the correct read. Not terribly surprised to hear the that the three hour Allison interview was kind of bullshit. I've had trouble trying to listen to the podcast the last few seasons. Feels like it's getting seriously indulgent and masturbatory, and I'm not sure who has time for that. Huge Rob C fan. Hope he sorts it out. Probably won't though; he's getting paid.
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Jan 21, 2019 07:07
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I'm not really a huge Rob C fan. He's an ok analyst but he's kind of single minded. Not a great interviewer but I get that he goes soft to keep up good relationships with them and CBS. And yeah, its very self indulgent. I've only really started listening regularly since Fishbauch joined. Together I think they work and Fishbauch has no problem challenging Rob so it gives the show different perspectives. I listened to the Christian interview but in general I can't see sitting through too many long interviews otherwise, regardless of the guest.
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Jan 21, 2019 07:14
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It might expose me as an Old, but I remember watching him play the Amazon and being heartbroken over his loss. He has an incredible instinct for the game. He deserved the title of being the best player never to win. Furthermore! He did literally go to school for communications. Broadcasting is literally his jam! I have respect for this. The fact of his empire and how he manages it speaks very well to his core competence. He could stand to stop licking boots, however.
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Jan 21, 2019 07:24
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I watched his season (later, I'm old enough but wasn't a fan until late) and liked him. I certainly think he was in the conversation as best never to win. I think its so long ago that its impossible to speak to now. While Rob C arguably is a pioneer of the current game who knows if he'd be able to adapt and stay at the head of the pack or if he'd just get passed by a new generation? Its not that I think Rob is bad or anything. Just one voice that doesn't blow me away. Truth is I have nothing but respect for the guy. He built a business and a career off it and he's been doing it long enough that he was probably close to a pioneer. All the credit to him and if he wasn't good at it he probably wouldn't be as successful as he is. Honestly, a lot of it is probably more a statement of my general tastes. I really don't care much for podcasts in general and never loved talk radio much. Listening to a single person or two talk for hours has never been a way I could absorb information ever since I was dozing off in school lectures. In fact part of the reason I listen to the Fishbauch episodes is probably that its video so it engages me a bit more. When I listen to the exit interviews I often end up having to just rewind because I got distracted and completely zoned out. And I even do that with the video format, especially since its usually just on in the background to something else I'm doing like a video game. So like, its probably less of a criticism of Rob and more of an indictment of my attention span.
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Jan 21, 2019 07:33
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It works well for me. I used to travel a lot and now it's great for listening at work.
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Jan 21, 2019 07:46
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Same. I just have Rob and company on in the background while I drive or do other stuff. It works great. He's an amicable guy, always willing to go for a goofy comedy bit, and I really appreciate that about him. I don't exactly blame Rob for sucking kneecaps, as it were, because the dude is not and has never wanted to be a journalist. He's a reality TV talk show host. His stuff is puff and he knows it, and he's very dependent on guests to come in and help him banter so he has to keep up good relationships in order to ensure people are willing to come on with him. In a way, he's still low key playing the social game. Given what happened this past year with Tyler from BB20 and Mike White, I can't blame Rob for wanting to kinda sidestep any toes he might tread on. EDIT: I'm a few minutes into the Davie podcast and it's already great. Turns out, Davie started watching Survivor because a lady from his church got on. Said lady also happened to be an employee of his mom. That lady? Joanne from Survivor: Amazon.  "HALLELUJAH, OHHHH GLORY" That lady.
Spergatory fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Jan 21, 2019 |
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Jan 21, 2019 14:13
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Late entry but re: Alison, my view is that she's probably an okay player but her self confidence is slightly off putting. Sure she probably was more involved in things than the show let us in on, but I doubt she really was the force of nature she keeps saying she is.
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Jan 21, 2019 14:36
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STAC Goat posted:So like, its probably less of a criticism of Rob and more of an indictment of my attention span. As someone who listens to a fair amount of RHAP and also *tries* to watch BB feeds some, this statement coming from the ultimate feed watcher has me very confused and conflicted. Edit: this is a good time to say I love you and am very grateful for your feed recaps!
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Jan 21, 2019 15:05
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My relationship with Big Brother is... weird. I like it conceptually and as a game, but I kind of... hate it as a TV show.
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Jan 21, 2019 15:33
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Spergatory posted:My relationship with Big Brother is... weird. I like it conceptually and as a game, but I kind of... hate it as a TV show. I only got into BB because it was slow at my old job one summer so all my coworkers would watch and stream it and gossip about it. I got sucked into two seasons, but never watched another season after leaving the job. The pacing of the show seems off and it's not as interesting to see catty people living in a big house.
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Jan 21, 2019 16:44
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Spergatory posted:My relationship with Big Brother is... weird. I like it conceptually and as a game, but I kind of... hate it as a TV show. This. The way it's produced feels insulting both to the houseguests and the viewers. It's a shame.
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Jan 21, 2019 17:38
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Propaganda Machine posted:This. The way it's produced feels insulting both to the houseguests and the viewers. It's a shame. It's trash TV. That's the point. That's why we like it. We know it's half-fabricated and all of the people are poo poo-heels. It's a show about putting a bunch of self obsessed assholes in prison together and having them Lord Of The Flies one another. It's A Good Show.
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Jan 21, 2019 19:16
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The show almost seems at odds with the game in the case of Big Brother. The game is a really unique format that centers on social politicking in a way that is similar to Survivor, but different enough to be distinct in that it gives individuals way more power and allows for more swings in game dynamics that could make for really interesting strategy. The show is a schlocky trash-fest that blatantly favors some contestants over others and delights in constantly insulting the intelligence of both the viewers and the house guests. And the weird thing is, I don't feel like it has to be that way. I feel like there is a happy medium where the two could meet. There's plenty of reality shows about trashy people stuck in a house together; why not let Big Brother be something a little more interesting than that? But the show as it stands now seems to be all in on the trash, so while that might be great for some people, it's not for me.
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Jan 21, 2019 20:50
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I think the fundamental problem with Big Brother as a game is its so heavily challenge-dependent, which is not inherently bad except for the fact that the players don't know what the challenges are and just have to guess what the producers are thinking at any given time. The players don't have enough information to make strong strategic decisions, so you get people just making weird decisions on whims and trying to rationalize those decisions to themselves and it's hard to really blame them. Maybe a better way to put this is on Survivor you can reasonably plan 3-4+ rounds ahead, but on Big Brother if you try to do that you have to start blindly guessing who will win whatever mystery game the producers have planned for you. You would never get (big Survivor 29 spoilers ahead!) Natalie's long-con revenge plan against Jon and Jaclyn in Big Brother, for instance. If I were to try to "fix" this problem with Big Brother, I think it could be neat if the players knew the exact challenge schedule for the season on Day 1. There would still be a big degree of variance, but it would collapse the number of possible outcomes down a bit and more realistically allow for people to plan ahead and make informed strategic decisions.
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Jan 21, 2019 22:39
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Do you guys watch a different Big Brother from the one I watch? The seasons get INSANELY boring sometimes, especially when it's just one alliance regularly steamrolling the other with little to no recourse. Admittedly (see: BB20) sometimes the opposition is just the stupidest group of idiots ever born who squander every opportunity they're given, but other times alliances go mostly uncontested. If they knew what was coming when, they could pick people off in an even more insidious way (ex: a wall comp is coming up next week, we need to vote off the short gymnast). That person had zero chance at EVER winning the game, by virtue of the fact that the cast knew when their strength was coming up so rather than leaving them around to control the game for a week they can them. I agree that the twists are stupid and almost never work to provide any positive impact to the season, and producer influence is more than likely at play pretty often, but having some rote planned season would absolutely be the most boring possible option. 
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Jan 21, 2019 22:50
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Big Brother is boring. That’s why I watch Survivor. Does Big Brother have its own thread?
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Jan 21, 2019 22:52
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Spergatory posted:My relationship with Big Brother is... weird. I like it conceptually and as a game, but I kind of... hate it as a TV show. Watching the game unfold (if it's good) is insanely fun to watch in real-time but the broadcast show is just embarrassingly awful at this point.
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Jan 22, 2019 01:30
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I think Survivor is unquestionably the better TV show. Its a tighter focus, they have tons of time to find the best narratives and make ever episode the best it can be, they know the ending so they can give you satisfying threads and endings. Its just better tv and storytelling, period. The Big Brother show is often a mess and to some extent you can't even blame them. Squeeze a week's worth of raw footage into 3 hours of TV can be a daunting task, they sometimes have only hours to do it, and they have no idea what will actually matter a week from now and what won't. I have a lot of criticisms of the way BB makes its TV show but a lot of the problem is just that the "live" nature really is a production and storytelling nightmare. As a voyeuristic shameful game I loving love BB. Primarily early on when there's a ton of people playing and everything is just constant chaos and changing dynamics and relationships forming and falling apart and its just beautiful and a ton of fun to try and unravel and guess what will happen. Its fun watching a person in control of the game either desperately try and play 24/7 to maintain control or get complacent and unknowingly have it fall apart while they're sleeping. Its fun watching an underdog scramble their asses off and learn to play the game out of desperation to save their lives. Its fun to see people bounce around wondering what their best strategy or alliance or move or vote is. Its definitely not for everyone, and it basically works for me because that 2 months where its great falls perfectly into the part of my year where I have a lot of spare time and basically just sitting on a computer waiting. But when its fun its real fun. I love those nights when the house is going insane and even the feed producers can't keep track of what's happening. Zesty posted:Big Brother is boring. That’s why I watch Survivor. SweetJahasus posted:As someone who listens to a fair amount of RHAP and also *tries* to watch BB feeds some, this statement coming from the ultimate feed watcher has me very confused and conflicted. Ha. Well, let me see if I can best describe it without getting too much into boring analysis of my broken brain. Basically, for as long as i can remember i can get easily distracted or my brain runs a mile a minute. I could never meditate or pray. I can't shut my brain off to go to bed. I can't clear my mind. I have trouble focusing on one task. As I type this I'm looking around the room, fighting other thoughts distracting me, its just the way I'm wired. I can counter that by throwing on headphones and playing some music or a podcast/radio and then it kind of monopolizes that part of my brain and lets me stay focused on my task. I listen to the BB Feeds like that. They play in the back of my head on my headphones while I'm doing other stuff, work or otherwise. Then I just tune in when I notice something happening or I need a distraction. The difference between them and a podcast is probably a single monotone voice. That becomes very easy for me to ignore and tune out even without realizing I'm doing it. So I'll be listening to a RHAP episode or whatever and realize 15 minutes has passed and I have no idea what they're talking about (and its actually done its job of focusing me on my work). With the feeds there's always lots of voices and people whispering and then yelling and the rooms jumping. Its much more dynamic so I never really fully tune out. And a lot of those long posts I make are really collections of hours of that background listening. edit: Spergatory posted:Given what happened this past year with Tyler from BB20 and Mike White, I can't blame Rob for wanting to kinda sidestep any toes he might tread on. Oh, what happened with Tyler? And more importantly how do I find it because I'm having no luck searching for it. Tyler was a low key douche who had his game completely in control until he got full of himself, lost all perspective, and set up his loss with complacency and I kind wanna hear him meltdown at Rob accidently politely suggesting he might have made a mistake. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Jan 22, 2019 |
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Jan 22, 2019 06:17
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He didn't melt down, he just publicly refused to talk to Rob or anyone associated with him after the season was over, saying something to the effect of "all you had to do was be nice." Which, to be fair to Rob, he was... mostly. Near the very end of the season, Rob went on an extended rant about how boring Tangela was, and got pretty hilariously worked up about it (Shouty Rant Rob doesn't come out often but it's always a treat when he does). And to be fair to Tyler, if my first exposure to Rob was that particular podcast, I'd kind of assume he was an rear end in a top hat as well. Add that to Brent calling them famewhores on Twitter, and yeah, Tangela was not a fan of RHAP. Tyler did eventually contact Taran, the guy who does most of the actual day to day podcasting about BB, to say he was willing to do an interview one day, but it still hasn't actually happened, so who knows if it ever will.
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Jan 22, 2019 11:19
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Zesty posted:Does Big Brother have its own thread? someone should make one so people stop posting about it here
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Jan 22, 2019 18:27
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How does Big Brother not have its own thread when you guys can endlessly talk about live feeds in there? I would be evicted and starve to death if Survivor had live feeds.
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Jan 22, 2019 21:59
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Why is Rob C considered the best player to never win the game? I'm pretty sure I saw his seasons, and even once I figured out Rob C was the one with the podcast and rep, not Rob M, I didn't see it, I barely remember him at all. At some point I guess I can go re-re-watch it, but his lack of memorability is why I've never checked his podcast.
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Jan 23, 2019 01:35
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Khanstant posted:Why is Rob C considered the best player to never win the game? I'm pretty sure I saw his seasons, and even once I figured out Rob C was the one with the podcast and rep, not Rob M, I didn't see it, I barely remember him at all. At some point I guess I can go re-re-watch it, but his lack of memorability is why I've never checked his podcast. He pretty much invented the idea of alliance-switching in Amazon
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Jan 23, 2019 01:47
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he maneuvered between alliances and controlled information really well before such a thing was done very often or at all. the 'best player to never win' title was something that was used to refer to him back around that time. i don't know if it applies 30 seasons later. now it's pretty common for the 'best' players to go out right before FTC.
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Jan 23, 2019 01:50
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Yeah, he basically was the first guy to do what like everyone does now. No real allegiance to anyone, he'd flip his targets and alliances based on the flow of the game and who he saw as the biggest threat to him, he was grooming a goat. Rob would have probably won except he misjudged his goat as too controllable/disposable and he ended up winning poo poo, building momentum, and taking him out. Like I said, I have no idea how he'd do if you dropped him into the game now (ignoring the stigma of him being a threat). If he'd have the brains to be ahead of the pack or if he'd just be one of many Nick/Davie/Gabby/Alec/Mike/Angelina/etc all thinking the same kind of things. "Best Player Not To Win" is an old nickname and I'm not sure how it ages. But historically he was really the first person to successfully pull off that strategy and come THIS close to winning with it. Its odd that you don't remember Rob C, though, since regardless of his game he really was the narrator of Survivor Amazon and the edit was in love with his sense of humor. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Jan 23, 2019 |
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Jan 23, 2019 01:55
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The modern holder of that title might be... Philippines Malcolm? By all accounts he'd have beaten Denise and he was this close to joining Lisa and Skupin to get her out anyway, he just flubbed the conversation with her terribly. There's also Wentworth, but it seems like most of the jury only realized how good she was after watching the show itself and I'm not sure she beats Jeremy.
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Jan 23, 2019 02:54
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I feel like its just kind of an outdated idea since the game is so hyper focused on threats and "players" now that you see so many potential strong winners get take out fairly early in the game or fall just short. A big part of why Rob C stood out the way he did at the time is a lot of why Boston Rob or Hatch did. They were playing a game above the level of their fellow players and doing things we hadn't seen. But the "rest of the league" has caught up now so I'm not sure its as easy today to be able to draw a difference from a Malcolm, Wentworth, Christian, Spencer, Fishbauch, etc. Really good players get their games derailed all the time these days. When Rob played it stood out.
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Jan 23, 2019 03:08
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STAC Goat posted:Its odd that you don't remember Rob C, though, since regardless of his game he really was the narrator of Survivor Amazon and the edit was in love with his sense of humor. My memory chooses what it will remember without consulting me, plus I'm binge watching seasons like a psycho and consistently rooting for losers all the time. Plus if there is a QT around I get tunnel vision, this is a character flaw of mine. I can see why Rob C got the title if he pioneered all that, it became so commonplace it's hard to remember somebody had to bust in with the tech at some point. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJlbPXZEpRE Hey this popped into youtube play next and tell me if that doesn't look like Tyson.
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Jan 23, 2019 03:10
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Rob C held the title for a good while, but nowadays I'm pretty sure Cirie, who has played four times and made it to the finale in three of them, who has never once been normally voted out of the game by a simple majority, is the current consensus pick for Best to Never Win. If we're talking about only players from the modern era, I like the Malcolm pick, and I've got a special place in my heart for Wentworth, but there's also an argument to be made for Domenick. I mean, he did come as close as you possibly can to winning without actually pulling it off. He's the only losing finalist who has ever gotten five jury votes!
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Jan 23, 2019 03:19
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Khanstant posted:My memory chooses what it will remember without consulting me, plus I'm binge watching seasons like a psycho and consistently rooting for losers all the time. Plus if there is a QT around I get tunnel vision, this is a character flaw of mine. well, code:
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Jan 23, 2019 03:20
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Khanstant posted:My memory chooses what it will remember without consulting me, plus I'm binge watching seasons like a psycho and consistently rooting for losers all the time. Plus if there is a QT around I get tunnel vision, this is a character flaw of mine. Ha, yeah. I binged a bunch (less than you) when I started watching and they definitely started to blur. Oddly these days I have a harder time remembering the seasons I watched live. I think my memory retains information better when its delivered more focused in a binge than if its dealt out over months. edit: Spergatory posted:Rob C held the title for a good while, but nowadays I'm pretty sure Cirie, who has played four times and made it to the finale in three of them, who has never once been normally voted out of the game by a simple majority, is the current consensus pick for Best to Never Win. If we're talking about only players from the modern era, I like the Malcolm pick, and I've got a special place in my heart for Wentworth, but there's also an argument to be made for Domenick. I mean, he did come as close as you possibly can to winning without actually pulling it off. He's the only losing finalist who has ever gotten five jury votes! Cirie's definitely a good counter to my "it happens so often as to not mean anything" argument because, yeah, she is actually unique in that she played a good game so many times and always got taken out in a nontraditional way. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Jan 23, 2019 |
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Jan 23, 2019 03:21
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I still maintain that Christian's threat level is overinflated because he looks like the epitome of a David. We saw no master strategy from him and his social game wasn't strong enough to protect him. Legitimate jury threat, probably, but you could say that about a bunch of 'likable' players and none of them are regarded as highly as Christian.
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Jan 23, 2019 03:35
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I mean, I basically agree. I probably regard him a little better than you. He seemed to have a perfectly valid game strategy he just misread a couple of key relationships and his cross tribe alliances were with snakes and flakes. Post game he seemed to identify his key mistakes (not finding a way to make Gabby feel more respected; not seeing the value of Davie as an ally; sketching Mike out a little too much leading him to stay Goliath Strong). And I don't think his "likability" and jury threat is really in question. It even saved him from the first Goliath vote, it just couldn't save him a second time one Mike got his mind set on ditching the "Strike Force". But that's kind of where I feel about most of the players like this. I agree that Malcolm played a good game and was one comp win away from winning. But do I think that makes him one of the best players of the modern era? Not really. That's not a knock on him its just that there's a lot of good players these days. Every season usually delivers 2-5 players we like and think could do well on a second try. But like... is there anyone from the Amazon besides Rob C we think deserves a second chance? Game just used to be a lot more shallow.
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Jan 23, 2019 03:49
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Christian was very good at making friends but couldn't maintain his core alliance or use a meat shield. I don't know if he could make it work in a second game without the kind unbreakable real life friendship that ruins All-Star seasons for me. There's a difference between insight and actually being able to pull it off. Denise surviving every tribal council with only 1 individual immunity win was amazing. She's a second tier winner after the totally dominant players. One thing I miss in modern Survivor is the floater with no social game. Nothing beats an "I'm always the deciding vote."  confessional on day 30.
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Jan 23, 2019 04:10
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Honestly, I just think Christian got bad breaks with this season. The Goliath alliance being so determined to stick together and the Davids never being a real alliance and always having different agendas just set up the circumstances perfectly for Christian to always be the biggest threat from all angles no matter what he did. I honestly think the guy's too critical of himself because of how hyper analytical he is. I'm not sure there's anything he could have done differently to change Gabby, Mike, or Davie's actions and I think the criticisms about the Brochachos voting him out are unfair. I think the one thing he probably screwed up was blindsiding Nick. But I'm not sure that actually would have made a difference because for as much as we like Nick he was kind of a melodramatic and hypocritical baby when it came to the game going against him. So I'm not sure bringing him in on the plan to blindside Carl would have worked out or changed much. But I'm not saying he's a GREAT player who got screwed either. He was a good player with a lot of pros, a few cons, who just couldn't find a path in this game. But every game is different and I definitely see him as someone who could have done better with a different deal of the cards.
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Jan 23, 2019 04:23
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Pinterest Mom posted:well,  Welp! Should've just looked for that. I have learned not to trust my instincts in this, I got embarrassingly far in The Departed thinking it was one guy living a secret double life of crime because the two main guys looked so alike and I heard the movie had a twist and figured that was it.
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Jan 23, 2019 06:43
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Christian would have easily won if he made top 3. He’s just so likable, that’s why everyone was gunning for him.
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Jan 23, 2019 07:02
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