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I played the Mega Drive one. I remember being confused.
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Mar 11, 2024 16:52
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When are we getting Populous the Ending
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Mar 11, 2024 17:11
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victrix posted:whystrategygamesand4xshavebeencursedfor30years.txt
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Mar 11, 2024 18:46
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There’s this odd dichotomy between wanting the ai to be “challenging” but also wanting it not to “cheat”.
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Mar 11, 2024 19:22
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Falling Frontier still looking extremely crisp. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4zto6KRnWQ
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Mar 11, 2024 20:56
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Punkin Spunkin posted:I was gonna say, this seems pretty standard. I mean it's what civ v does and I even add mods to increase the AI cheat advantage sometimes since it's not like I can make them much smarter. I don't necessarily want an AI to be playing the game I'm playing. I don't need the AI to be playing the same game that I'm playing, but I should be able to have levers to affect it that make logical sense to me. If the AI has endless gold, then I can't ruin their economy, or I need the ways I have to try and ruin their economy to set them back in a manner that makes sense. If the AI isn't limited in terms of unit production the same way that I am, I still need a lever to gently caress with their ability to field a full army every turn, etc. It's a tricky problem.
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Mar 11, 2024 21:01
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appropriatemetaphor posted:There’s this odd dichotomy between wanting the ai to be “challenging” but also wanting it not to “cheat”. A good example of improving on this is Stormgate's co-op mode. SC2's co-op mode had the AI spawning waves from bases even if those bases had been destroyed; in Stormgate, you can stop those waves by killing the bases. Which makes sense, right?
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Mar 11, 2024 21:15
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Yngwie Mangosteen posted:I don't need the AI to be playing the same game that I'm playing, but I should be able to have levers to affect it that make logical sense to me. If the AI has endless gold, then I can't ruin their economy, or I need the ways I have to try and ruin their economy to set them back in a manner that makes sense. If the AI isn't limited in terms of unit production the same way that I am, I still need a lever to gently caress with their ability to field a full army every turn, etc. This is the issue. There is "cheating," and then there is the AI not even really playing the game. It's like Anno 1800, where literally the AI is just a fake screen. Resources, etc. don't matter to it - it just puts buildings on the islands over time without regard to what you are doing to it, blockades, resource starvation, etc. Imagine a game of chess where you take pieces and the AI just randomly puts more pieces on the board on its side.
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Mar 11, 2024 21:37
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The thing that feels bad is that 4X's love to introduce systems where the proper assortment of doodads allows your zoop points to get really high. But, oh look! there's a secondary systems of spy dingles that you can use to temporarily suspend an enemy player's doodad assortment matrix! How fun, to shut off someone's zoop points in a clever way! But, oh no! The AI player does not interact with the doodad matrix, and instead gains zoop points along a set interval depending on its difficulty rating, rendering the entire spy dingle system useless. This is all secondary to whether or not the AI should cheat. of course it should. it doesn't have time to think about its moves while eating a sandwich and commenting on a twitch stream in their second monitor. it only knows what it already knew. But the civ lineage of 4x's likes to present a false image of a boardgamelike competition between the player and the ai, where neither is truly living by the terms of that agreement. (The AI by "cheating" and ignoring the subsystems, the player by gaming the AI's quirks.)
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Mar 11, 2024 21:38
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The premise of most 4X's is bullshit anyway: "everyone starts on the same even footing at the same time and the cleverest wins!" Just like human history!
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Mar 11, 2024 22:47
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yeah but civ is fun which is more important than historicity
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Mar 12, 2024 02:40
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Cicero posted:Why is that an odd dichotomy? If the AI slots into the same role as a player, appears to be going through the same motions, but in actuality the things it's doing have no connection to its capabilities -- that's going to feel less satisfying. Was imagining the standard like +25% resource generation or whatever but still pressing all the same buttons as the player. I think it's odd because AI just can't compete with the best humans, CPU always gonna suck. So if you want a challenge from the AI they're going to have to get some sort of artificial boost.
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Mar 12, 2024 03:01
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appropriatemetaphor posted:There’s this odd dichotomy between wanting the ai to be “challenging” but also wanting it not to “cheat”. The problem with the AI cheating is that it often makes them immune to certain strategies, thus narrowing the strategic options and making the game less fun to play against them. For example an AI that just gets granted resources over time is immune to you raiding their economy. The true goal for developers is not to make an AI that plays like a player, but one that can be played against the same way you can play against a player. EDIT: beaten, actually, glad to see other people see the problem though. Sometimes feels like everyone is aiming at the wrong problem.
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Mar 12, 2024 06:11
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That was the good part of the recent Nebulous Fleet Command Dev diaries where they said they are introducing the whole economic management side simply to give you strategic options. A single doomstack fleet will not be able to protect the economy against multiple small raiding fleets.
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Mar 12, 2024 06:27
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The strategic layer in Nebulous is single player right? I like the game but couldn't really get into the sweaty missile pvp lobbies.
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Mar 12, 2024 08:33
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appropriatemetaphor posted:The strategic layer in Nebulous is single player right? I like the game but couldn't really get into the sweaty missile pvp lobbies. Nope, you will be able to play it multiplayer as well. In an extremely "why wasn't this done before" move, each side will split the tasks between the players so that the simultaneous turns are moving at a decent pace - so there's one person responsible for fleet movements, another for research, another for designing ships, another for refits and logistics, and so on. Then, when a tactical battle occurs you just split the ships into squadrons as you see fit.
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Mar 12, 2024 10:12
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Boy, that sounds amazing.
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Mar 12, 2024 11:56
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Lichtenstein posted:Nope, you will be able to play it multiplayer as well. In an extremely "why wasn't this done before" move, each side will split the tasks between the players so that the simultaneous turns are moving at a decent pace - so there's one person responsible for fleet movements, another for research, another for designing ships, another for refits and logistics, and so on. Then, when a tactical battle occurs you just split the ships into squadrons as you see fit. Buzzing now I just need some friends
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Mar 12, 2024 14:52
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Mordja posted:Falling Frontier still looking extremely crisp. man I hope this is actually a good game and not just a beautiful UI
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Mar 12, 2024 15:35
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doctorfrog posted:The premise of most 4X's is bullshit anyway: "everyone starts on the same even footing at the same time and the cleverest wins!" Just like human history! This is part of why I really like AI Wars/AI Wars 2.
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Mar 12, 2024 15:37
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doctorfrog posted:The premise of most 4X's is bullshit anyway: "everyone starts on the same even footing at the same time and the cleverest wins!" Just like human history! What's good for a game and what's good for history are often not the same thing.
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Mar 12, 2024 15:47
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appropriatemetaphor posted:Was imagining the standard like +25% resource generation or whatever but still pressing all the same buttons as the player. IIRC SC2's skirmish AIs actually do entirely "play fair" -- including the need to scout to gain information -- except for the ones explicitly labeled as cheating in specific ways. But yes the hardest non-cheating AI is not very challenging for a regular ladder player to defeat, though it would likely prove an insurmountable challenge for a more casual player.
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Mar 12, 2024 19:13
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I remember as a kid, we would sometimes set two AIs up to play against each other and watch what they did to improve.
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Mar 13, 2024 03:52
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Mordja posted:Falling Frontier still looking extremely crisp. I really hope this is good, it looks sick as hell. I will say the UI noises are kind of not great, the weird clicking they went with sounds like audio interference and is triggering my audio production instincts.
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Mar 13, 2024 04:10
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Age of Darkness This one has been on my wait-for-final list for a very long time now (it launched in EA in 2021, yeesh) https://store.steampowered.com/app/1426450/Age_of_Darkness_Final_Stand/ It apparently just released the final campaign chapter in January, anyone played it? Good, bad? I find this extremely specific setting (final stand in a doomed world) oddly appealing, so They Are Billions, this, and The Last Spell all caught my attention
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Mar 13, 2024 07:24
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Falling Frontier looks dope and will probably live up to the thread title.
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Mar 13, 2024 17:16
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victrix posted:Age of Darkness The one thing that stops me from loving TAB is the fact that you're pretty much hosed if a single enemy touches your base, it escalates way too quickly. Does Age of Darkness have this mechanic too?
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Mar 13, 2024 17:23
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Deakul posted:The one thing that stops me from loving TAB is the fact that you're pretty much hosed if a single enemy touches your base, it escalates way too quickly. There's no building infection mechanic, they'll just destroy your buildings instead.
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Mar 14, 2024 06:33
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Does it have coop?
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Mar 14, 2024 06:39
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Mordja posted:Does it have coop? It's one of the things they're working on, they have some preview videos of it on their devblogs IIRC.
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Mar 14, 2024 06:40
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it seems to have no following, no one answered here, I went looking on yt, all reviews are 1-2 years old, I couldn't find anything recent discussing its strengths or weaknesses
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Mar 14, 2024 07:14
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Turin is running a Dune Spice Wars tournament with 16 players, 4 pods of 4 FFA games https://www.youtube.com/live/2Ta07-sn2sY?si=AHLnpEv0G-ao2hJN Lot of the same DNA as Northgard, but more diplomatic and Dune specific fuckery for multiplayer shenanigans
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Mar 15, 2024 20:31
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victrix posted:it seems to have no following, no one answered here, I went looking on yt, all reviews are 1-2 years old, I couldn't find anything recent discussing its strengths or weaknesses It had a good start and started making some baffling balance decisions. The Campaign [Note I have not finished it yet] is fairly good if you like the very dark setting. As long as you are not trying the harder difficulties it should still be fun for Survival. It has patched at least once since I last played but the Devs have not given me much hope they made it actually fun to increase the difficulty.
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Mar 15, 2024 20:58
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Any other big cool mods for RA3? Honestly I just got the pack in order to play Zero Hour and Zero Hour-like mods, and RA3's Generals Evolved is the best incarnation of it because the engine is much better in terms of visual quality and stability Also drat I only just realized that whatever in-house engine they used for those games didn't go past 30 FPS by design. What a strange limitation
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Mar 20, 2024 06:53
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I dunno if any one is digging into Dune but the mp community over on Turin's discord is playing 4p ffa matches all throughout the day - the vibes are pretty chill given the politicking inherent in both the game and 4p ffa. They play on 1.5x speed with no other weird house rules. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1kB3gAyxp0 Tipz
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Mar 20, 2024 07:21
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Fun fact: the Dune developers are the same as the Northgard developers!
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Mar 20, 2024 17:39
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toasterwarrior posted:Any other big cool mods for RA3? Honestly I just got the pack in order to play Zero Hour and Zero Hour-like mods, and RA3's Generals Evolved is the best incarnation of it because the engine is much better in terms of visual quality and stability Does Generals Evolution have campaign support?
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Mar 20, 2024 17:50
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victrix posted:Age of Darkness It's a lot like They Are Billions (TAB). It fixes a lot of TAB's mechanical problems, but the graphics are somehow less charming. It's very vibes, but it was just less fun to play than TAB when I tried it 6-9 months ago. I can't point to any specific problem other than the art.
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Mar 20, 2024 19:36
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMze46sIwdc More good stuff I'll leave off Duneposting after this, there isn't even a thread for it on the forums, but for anyone interested, that dude is making really good videos and commentaries on live mp games, and the mp community is small but active so it's there if you're interested in some slowtime rts multiplayer
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Mar 20, 2024 22:21
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Dandywalken posted:Does Generals Evolution have campaign support? Nah, unfortunately. The first update in a long while seems to be getting more Generals mechanics working in this engine, like the Chinese horde buff mechanic (goddamn writing that out sucks in 2024, Generals my problematic fave)
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Mar 21, 2024 00:09
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