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Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
There were also some openings in the premiere for people figuring it out, like Mike O'Malley warning Michael to be alone when he uses the key, which felt like they were setting things up for someone to catch him.

Also, prediction: whenever they all end up back in the afterlife, Simone will be there (because time is meaningless and she was pulled from whenever she died). Or, this would probably not fit in with the themes of the show but I feel Simone is someone who would totally want to study all the scientific aspects of this whole deal if she were to find out.

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Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
I was wondering if that guy, or the lady who told Chidi not to eat blueberries, were bad place reps, but it looks like they hadn't found the humans or couldn't reach them until Michael started nudging them (giving their hacker an in into the judge's system), which he only started doing after they backslid.

edit: thematically, that would also be an incredibly easy out--if they were caused to backslide by demons, the experiment was already tainted before Michael interfered, and he could explain his behavior away as trying to stop the demons, which I think would be too lazy a solution.

Argue fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Sep 29, 2018

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
Also, regarding someone from the group potentially finding out about the experiment, I wonder if they just also happened to have Simone mention that the MRI could examine the part of the brain that governs memory.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
Kamila goes to the Bad Place but much to Tahani's chagrin all the demons there adore her too.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
Give Janet a break; it's only been 3 episodes! 4 if you count the premiere as two.

Senor Tron posted:

Looking at the episode titles on Netflix, I'm really interested in episode 7: Reboot 445*

That's interesting; that's not the title in the released list of episode names. I checked and there's no known previously mentioned reboot corresponding to that one; the longest one has an unspecified number, the shortest one was 556, and the one where Eleanor and Chidi fell in love was 119 or something like that.

I really hope Simone is just a human. If she were a Good Place agent it would go against the thesis that humans can improve each other without divine intervention (granted, Michael already screwed that up but having Simone be a permanently installed Good Place agent would taint it way way worse).

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
The season premiere had them say that there are 30 billion souls in The Bad Place, and it seems like it would have been trivial for the writers to research that there have been roughly 100 billion anatomically modern humans ever, so I'm going to take this as an implicit confirmation that 63-70 billion people (accounting for those still living) have made it to The Good Place, and that the overly harsh requirements were a lie. Or maybe they were true and the other 70 billion or so people... are I dunno, just floating around the universe as ghosts?

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
Actually thinking about it I'd like to watch a spinoff that's just Janet walking the earth and telling everyone what they need to know.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines

Calico Heart posted:

Hey all. I just finished the first season and a pretty major thing is bugging me, can anyone let me know if this is ever addressed;

Chidi was sent to the bad place for the consequences of his actions
but Tahani was sent there due to the intentions behind her actions


For this show, this seems like an especially weird issue. It seems like something that might be addressed later, and I reall hope it is, because I can equally see it as something fans just have to kind of explain away.

That said, apparently the showrunner has a seven season plan or whatever, so who knows what will and won't come back.

We're definitely meant to think the entire system by which it works is unfair, but your specific comment isn't one of the reasons they give. The requirements for the Good Place being as stringent as they are, I would think that you would need to have both good intentions and actions to get in, so Chidi and Tahani would both fail such criteria. I think it might be in the back of their minds, since at one point Chidi does namecheck Aristotle's concept of "doing virtuous acts makes you virtuous" versus "being virtuous makes you do virtuous acts" (I hope I got that right).

Edit: this is a completely unrelated stray thought but I think April Ludgate would end up in The Good Place, though on the off chance she didn't, she'd surely be the one to realize Eleanor's plan of making Michael think he's the one in the Bad Place

Argue fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Oct 14, 2018

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
Judge Gen said that from now on the Brainy Bunch are just going to be living their lives and earning points to get into the Good Place like anyone else on earth, so it's probably a real system which they'll end up destroying by the time the show is over (the way this show is paced, more like by season 4 episode 2).

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
I hope "Jeremy Bearimy" supplants "Timey Wimey" as the idiom of choice when expressing confusion about how time travel works.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
What if this entire show is all actually a prequel to all the movies and tv shows about people who die but are given a second chance to do something good on earth.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
They can just reset the timeline if that happens, but also I don't think someone would find the manifesto and automatically think it was a real thing, I guess unless the person who finds it already suspected something was supernatural about Michael.

I think endgame will be something along the lines of "the real Good Place is the one we make for ourselves".

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
I can't believe they didn't pay off the Rick Justice running joke by having them use it on Pillboy.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines

Phenotype posted:

Why did Chidi have to break up with Simone, and why can't Jason ever come back to visit Pillboi?

He has a huge problem with lying, as well as with withholding the truth. He'd probably eventually break and tell her, dooming her soul to eternity.

Although honestly I would expect her to have pretty good point totals that I imagine nullifying her future point gathering would have just guaranteed her place in the Good Place.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines

Phenotype posted:

So maybe it's been a double bluff by Michael this whole time? "Oh no, now that you know you can't be saved your motivations are corrupt" - "Now that they think they can't be saved all the good they're doing can't have corrupt motivations"?

Unlikely considering he and Janet were preparing to disappear into eternity forever.

SirSamVimes posted:

Given that no human has ever found out the truth about the afterlife, how would she know?

She was literally built for The Good Place.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
I'm concerned that we have yet to see a single alien in the afterlife.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
Eleanor's mother, having just given birth to Eleanor, tried to pass Eleanor off as her little sister.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines

pwn posted:

I looked it up, and not quite yet.

11.15 new episode, Don’t Let the Good Life Pass You By
11.22 thanksgiving night footbawl
11.29 some weird lego jurassic world specials
12.06 new episode, Janet(s)

THEN there’s a month or so with no new episodes - December 13th and 27th are reruns, 20th is a series finale of Timeless ( :woop: ), and January 3rd is a two-hour premier of that Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson competition show, The Titan Games. The Good Place returns January 10 at 9:30/8:30c, after the season premiere of Brooklyn Nine-Nine (Titan Games runs in the 8/7c slot.)

01.10 The Book of Dougs
01.17 Chidi Sees the Time-Knife
01.24 Pandemonium

Ugh the calendar I use lied to me! It told me there was a new ep next week, double ep the following week, and then one ep each of the two weeks after that! :mad:

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines

howe_sam posted:

A Bad Janet can't impersonate a Good Janet

On the other hand, the next episode is titled "Janets"

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines

greententacle posted:

I've been thinking, being pyschologically tortured, like in the fake Good Place, I think I could deal with that. But being physically tortured, like what's supposed to happen in the Bad Place, nuh-uh, no way! What do you think? Would you rather be physically or psychologically tortured?

Yeah, even the soul squad agreed with that. But the innovation in Michael's neighborhood was that it would be more fun for demons. Vicki certainly seemed to be having a blast.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
He also missed his mom's back surgery because he promised his landlord's nephew that he'd help him with his phone!

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines

ZRM posted:

No maliciousness, just the system being balanced wrong and nobody catching it.

Point Calculation Changelog (2018 CE):
- Doug Forcett now gets a 50% penalty on all good acts he performs
- Fixed a bug where people can accumulate points by being happiness pumps
- Humans can no longer force other humans' scores to decrease by sticking them on a runaway trolley
- Humans now receive points even after confirming how the afterlife works, if they commit good acts while believing they're going to the Bad Place, unless they have also seen this line of this changelog

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
They joked about this in season 2 but I think it's all leading up to a completely unironic realization that the real Good Place was the friends we made along the way.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
I much prefer the scheduling of the British version of the show, The Gooud Place. It's been running for 5 years on the BBC and they've done nearly as many episodes.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
Are you guys seriously trying to dissect a plot device which clearly exists for the purpose of telling viewers that time works in whichever manner has the most narrative impact for the story? Even the Doctor Who and Legends threads don't discuss why time doesn't wibble wobble when someone does a timey wime.


BioEnchanted posted:

I just realised in the scene when they first decided to go see the Judge after discussing what their Bad Places would probably be, they were giving the demons waaaaay too much credit assuming that their hells would be in any way personalised. The Demon's are all very boring people, the personlisation was entirely Michael's thing, the only time we ever got an inkling of that in the Real Bad Place was with Real Eleanor in season 1 and she was reading from a memorised script, written by Michael. There will be no crap concerts or infinite camping because Shawn wouldn't be smart enough to think of that, it's all samey physical tortures for him. It'll be butthole spiders and being twisted in two for everyone. One Demon literally needed to ask an ethics professor for help figuring out how to torture someone (although he didn't know it at the time) so they are really pathetic.

Chidi had a whole subplot where a demon wanted his advice on how to personalize someone's torture.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
The rule is that time works in whichever interpretation of it has the most narrative impact.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
This popped up in my Youtube recs and I have no idea what it is going to be but I'll be sure to watch the recording of it when I wake up tomorrow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0z-Lf7EkfU

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
I don't think the answer was entirely satisfactory; Doug Forcett explicitly structured his life to make sure that he avoided unintended consequences. I guess it could be that everything he did prior to his revelation already put him too far into the negatives but I'd have appreciated them addressing it considering they specifically mentioned him by name.

Edit: Also it really WAS because Chidi kept using almond milk!

Argue fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Jan 11, 2019

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines

Taear posted:

Exactly though. Who cares if it's 1400 years when it's Jeremy Bearimy years?
After all they've been in the afterlife for at least 300 years and it's still 2018.

You're really hung up about this. I already said this earlier in the thread but you'll just have to accept that time works in whichever way has the most dramatic impact for the show. It isn't some well defined theory of time that you can unravel by obsessing over a blackboard drawing of the phrase "Jeremy Bearimy" in English cursive.

If they say nobody's gotten in in 500 years, then ask yourself: would it be more dramatic for us, the viewers, if the last person to get in was from the 15th century? Or would it be more dramatic if the last person to get in was from 2199 and because of Jeremy Bearimy it was 500 years ago for Michael?

And if they say it'll take 1400 years, would it be more dramatic if it meant "you and the people of earth are going to be waiting a very long time", or if it meant "yeah we already solved the problem yesterday in earth time"?

If you try to interpret it any other way you're going to go the way of Chidi when he tried.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
I don't know where Larry would end up but as punishment for her low point score April should be sent to the actual Good Place.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
It turns out that the entire cast of the show "The Good Place" is demons and it is we, the audience, who they are getting to torture each other in this thread, the real Bad Place, by incessantly bringing up timeline discussion.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines

WampaLord posted:

I don't want to have the same conversation over and over

Jeremy Taearimy.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
Hahaha, I was predicting that they'd spend an episode having the Judge spend the day on earth and they did except it took all of 5 seconds, and just when I think I've got a grasp on how quickly this show paces itself. I also expected they'd spend about 3 or 4 episodes next season doing exactly this experiment but I guess it's going to be entirely contained in the finale, and who the gently caress knows what season 4 will be? Maybe season 4 will be about being in the actual Good Place and resolving the problems within it.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
Is the season finale a double ep?

Selachian posted:

I was thinking some kind of TMZ sleazoid.

Clickbait writer. Gotta be a clickbait writer.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
The main character in Little Evil.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
Is the finale gonna be a double ep?

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines

SardonicTyrant posted:

Wow, this show really picks up after the twist.

Did you know the twist going in and what was your reaction

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
https://twitter.com/dandiestdaisy/status/1136404177968619523
https://twitter.com/dandiestdaisy/status/1118123897231220737
https://twitter.com/dandiestdaisy/status/1128064384406781953

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
I think Schur said, and the show implied, that even if you're an extreme hippie recluse like Doug, or from an isolated tribe untouched by capitalism, you also need to do massive amounts of good that affect many many people to get enough points. Avoiding the bad isn't sufficient.

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Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
Buried among Michael's lies in season 1 was the probably true fact that you needed an insane amount of points to get in, and that even a lot of people you'd think would get in, didn't. Of course, we know now there are bigger reasons for that, but those factoids he dropped on Eleanor could easily have been rooted in the truth, that the point requirement is unreasonably high.

And here's Schur on the matter:

quote:

Even if the world has become much more ethically complex, couldn’t someone who lives in an isolated, indigenous community avoid most of those conflicts and still rack up enough points to get in?


The inherent catch-22 of the system is: You can’t get enough points unless you affect a large number of people’s lives, but with the world becoming ever more complex and the effects of your actions becoming more and more unpredictable, it’s harder and harder to do so without screwing yourself. Doug Forcett is living in a Westernized, modern society, but has sequestered himself in a rural environment so as not to have to participate in the structures that suppress his positive point accrual, has spent his whole life doing nothing but good deeds… and he wasn’t really close to getting in.

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