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NienNunb posted:I wish Hero drew some gates because hes the GOAT indie wrestler and morally deserves to be in the hall. Dumb question and maybe not the place for it, but does Chris get paid more since he apparently also works as a coach of sorts for NXT talent? Or does he make roughly the same as someone like say, Ricochet, except zero chance of a callup?
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Sep 30, 2018 00:37
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He was doing pretty well on the indies after he left NXT the first time so I imagine they must have offered him a pretty good deal to get him back.
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Sep 30, 2018 01:07
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i remembered today that Hurican Ramirez and Karloff Legarde aren't in the hall of fame why us or japan they'd be in already
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Oct 8, 2018 20:48
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Smoking Crow posted:i remembered today that Hurican Ramirez and Karloff Legarde aren't in the hall of fame Ramirez is a fairly divisive candidate there are a few people who scoff at his case.
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Oct 8, 2018 21:01
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I think he'd be less controversial if we had more information about the short wrestling booms his movies caused in Bolivia and other South American countries
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Oct 8, 2018 21:10
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Smoking Crow posted:He was a really fat guy who couldn't work but had a ton of charisma and was the son of the promoter. He was basically the antithesis of what we now consider "british wrestling" so he couldn't chain wrestle or do hold/counter-hold shenanigans, he would do 5 minute squashes. He was loving GIGANTIC for a few years in the 70s to the point of having his own comic books and being on children's shows all the time, but the promoters put all their eggs in one basket and once he got worn down, they had no stars to replace him with. Given that upcoming WWE PPVs are going to be headlined by three guys in their fifties the current WWE product is a swarm of Big Daddy's.
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Oct 10, 2018 00:38
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who are the inductees who deserved it the least? hard mode don't say Benoit
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Oct 10, 2018 05:53
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the freebirds. and dick lane should just be in the roller derby hof
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Oct 10, 2018 06:10
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NienNunb posted:who are the inductees who deserved it the least? Mentally, I know it's probably Sting. But I was a little Stinger, and in my heart, I don't give a poo poo, I'm happy he's in.
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Nov 10, 2018 13:33
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NienNunb posted:who are the inductees who deserved it the least? Nakamura deserves it less than Sting currently.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:23
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Lid posted:Nakamura deserves it less than Sting currently. Nakamura was a high end, influential worker for half a decade who was a key player turning a company around. Sting drew two buyrates, so he peaked higher for a much shorter period, was a non draw for much longer than Nakamura and his peak as a worker was barely higher than Nakamura's is now.
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Nov 11, 2018 19:47
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At time of induction, possibly Angle?
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Nov 11, 2018 19:49
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The real answer is probably some guy who promoted or drew money in the territory days that is ultimately irrelevant.
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Nov 11, 2018 19:51
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I'm glad Sting is in. fight me irl 
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Nov 11, 2018 20:20
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NienNunb posted:who are the inductees who deserved it the least? Jimmy Lennon
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Nov 11, 2018 20:38
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MassRafTer posted:Nakamura was a high end, influential worker for half a decade who was a key player turning a company around. Sting drew two buyrates, so he peaked higher for a much shorter period, was a non draw for much longer than Nakamura and his peak as a worker was barely higher than Nakamura's is now. To which this is your opinion and I have mine. Would Nakamura be a hall of fame eventually? Yes but as it currently sits I see him as a current worker in a current state. As for the turn around that weight is put much more heavily on the shoulders of Tanahashi with CHAOS being another factor but not the factor. Hall of Fame isn't as simple as a series of checkmarks, it's opinion and has to factor in things of intangibles that are more than "never drew a dime". If a Hall of Fame was purely a checkmark system it would and should exclude those that never moved a needle - I.e. I hold Daniel Bryan's independent career alone is enough to be a Hall of Famer without even needing to sniff WWE as I rate it as in a territory influencer that would be characteristic than just popping buyrates and draws. So yes - you can hold your opinion and I can hold mine and we can both be right in our own "here's what the hall of fame means to me".
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Nov 11, 2018 20:47
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Its why i find it bizarre when people counter Goldberg being in the hall with like "if Goldberg why not Lex Luger" because you can checkmark both and from top down say they are in essence the same but that's such a contrite analytical way that reduces wrestlers to somecheck box I can't comprehend.
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Nov 11, 2018 20:51
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Goldberg isn't in the WOR hall of fame though cause his peak drawing period was so short though. And Nakamura's body of work was more than good enough for him to go into the WOR hall when he came up for voting, his current WWE run (and he's a front runner for Overrated this year for the Observer awards for me) does not diminish that.
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Nov 11, 2018 20:54
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I expect Goldberg to go in within the next few years should've made that clear. I could be wrong but on a personal level believe his universal title run ignited enough good nostalgia and feeling that it will off set negatives to voters one of these years.
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Nov 11, 2018 21:02
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If Goldberg gets in so should Vampiro Send tweet
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Nov 11, 2018 21:03
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Lid posted:To which this is your opinion and I have mine. Would Nakamura be a hall of fame eventually? Yes but as it currently sits I see him as a current worker in a current state. As for the turn around that weight is put much more heavily on the shoulders of Tanahashi with CHAOS being another factor but not the factor. Hall of Fame isn't as simple as a series of checkmarks, it's opinion and has to factor in things of intangibles that are more than "never drew a dime". I'm not talking about checkmarks I am talking about the criteria of the Hall of Fame. He was an elite worker in the minds of many wrestlers, fans and journalists who was in a drawing position on many cards and came through. Be it B shows with the IC belt that did better than expected, Arena Mexico main events that did really well or the Dome show IC title match with Tanahashi. Vampiro has a much better case than Goldberg and about as much of a shot of getting in.
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Nov 11, 2018 21:09
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Anyone who is a nominee meets the criteria. Everything beyond that is our own subjective opinions and weighting. Your stuff about Nakamura is meant to be taken as an exact science which means people that didn't vote for him were objectively wrong. This is an extrapolation from your position but you are intent on being I'm right you're wrong on this subject so it's necessary to say if you arent willing to accept that this is subjective not objective that the objective criteria must stand up to scrutiny or it's pretending your opinion is infallible logic and the One True Way.
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Nov 11, 2018 21:18
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Lid posted:Anyone who is a nominee meets the criteria. Everything beyond that is our own subjective opinions and weighting. Your stuff about Nakamura is meant to be taken as an exact science which means people that didn't vote for him were objectively wrong. This is an extrapolation from your position but you are intent on being I'm right you're wrong on this subject so it's necessary to say if you arent willing to accept that this is subjective not objective that the objective criteria must stand up to scrutiny or it's pretending your opinion is infallible logic and the One True Way. Nope.
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Nov 11, 2018 21:20
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You aren't FatherDog kid, stop trying to be.
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Nov 11, 2018 21:20
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Lid posted:You aren't FatherDog kid, stop trying to be. There's no real need to say more when someone is so completely and utterly wrong. Being on the Hall of Fame ballot does not mean they fit all of the criteria for induction. You really have no clue what you are talking about if pointing out which criteria a wrestler meets is the long winded mumbo jumbo you decided to post.
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Nov 11, 2018 21:22
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How do you become voter What qualifies you to vote
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Nov 11, 2018 21:27
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Please engage then rather than being smug and dismissive, or can we discuss for example halls of fame use voters and by your definition and exacting requirements a voter pool is inherently wrong compared to yourself and your opinions. You understand the Hall but you can't seem to understand what a voter, opinion, or difference of views means without flipping out and acting like someone is insulting you for disagreeing with you even when I outright said you are right in your own definitions. If you don't want to do that congratulations you're just being a thin skinned rear end in a top hat.
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Nov 11, 2018 21:28
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Lid posted:Please engage then rather than being smug and dismissive, or can we discuss for example halls of fame use voters and by your definition and exacting requirements a voter pool is inherently wrong compared to yourself and your opinions. You understand the Hall but you can't seem to understand what a voter, opinion, or difference of views means without flipping out and acting like someone is insulting you for disagreeing with you even when I outright said you are right in your own definitions. If you don't want to do that congratulations you're just being a thin skinned rear end in a top hat. I did, by talking about how Nakamura better meets the criteria for entry than Sting. You decided to take my post about a very specific comparison between two members of the Hall of Fame and claim it was something else entirely. You've provided absolutely nothing in favor of whatever your position is and keep trying to claim my posts are something other than they were. You took someone disagreeing with your opinion and completely melted down with claims they are trying to claim their opinions as objective truth and know more about the Hall of Fame than the voting pool. Smoking Crow posted:How do you become voter By Dave sending you a ballot. Qualifications are being a wrestler, journalist or historian. The voting pool is pretty huge now so it's easier to get a ballot than years past but those are the basic qualifications. But in the end it comes down to Dave deciding you need a ballot, but there are other people involved in the process. MassRafTer fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 21:32
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Is it literally someone asks Dave to make you a voter That's how Alfredo Esparza became a voter, Kurt Brown asked Dave
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Nov 11, 2018 21:38
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Smoking Crow posted:Is it literally someone asks Dave to make you a voter People will ask him, I'm sure Fumi Saito recommended a bunch of Japanese writers who have ballots now as well.
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Nov 11, 2018 21:42
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I literally said you are right on your criteria of what defines Nakamura v Sting as Nakamura being more deserving. It's you who has been saying nonsense and mumbo jumbo and now melt down that my opinion is wrong. What I said about voting pools, and you can't grasp this, is that your metric getting into the hall is an exact science and thus can be applied evenly and objectively to all applicants to find the correct answer (or more appropriately who shouldn't be in). This all started because I had the gall to think when I see Nakamura on a week to week basis "this isn't a Hall of Famer with a Hall of Fame career currently" as in such a view is a sin against nature. It boggles me personally because, and I'm not faulting you for not knowing this, NJPW Nakamura was my favourite wrestler in the world and I adore him but my whatever you term mumbo jumbo is means I don't see what you see. Hell it could be that he went in at 35 and isn't even 40 yet and something I consider is age to be very important to halls and he's simply too young.
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Nov 11, 2018 21:43
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Lid posted:I literally said you are right on your criteria of what defines Nakamura v Sting as Nakamura being more deserving. It's you who has been saying nonsense and mumbo jumbo and now melt down that my opinion is wrong. What I said about voting pools, and you can't grasp this, is that your metric getting into the hall is an exact science and thus can be applied evenly and objectively to all applicants to find the correct answer (or more appropriately who shouldn't be in). This all started because I had the gall to think when I see Nakamura on a week to week basis "this isn't a Hall of Famer with a Hall of Fame career currently" as in such a view is a sin against nature. It boggles me personally because, and I'm not faulting you for not knowing this, NJPW Nakamura was my favourite wrestler in the world and I adore him but my whatever you term mumbo jumbo is means I don't see what you see. Hell it could be that he went in at 35 and isn't even 40 yet and something I consider is age to be very important to halls and he's simply too young. That's why 35 is the age for entry so people can be voted on when they are at their peak instead of after their peak. Many wrestlers enter prime drawing years after 35 but others are physically destroyed or seen as "too old" by the most powerful man in the industry who sees 35 as pretty much the cut off when it is time to start looking for a new "The Guy."
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Nov 11, 2018 21:49
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Does the newsletter HOF have a historical committee for guys who are really old? Like guys from the 50s, 60s and 70s who are off the ballot but still deserve in
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Nov 11, 2018 21:54
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Smoking Crow posted:Does the newsletter HOF have a historical committee for guys who are really old? Like guys from the 50s, 60s and 70s who are off the ballot but still deserve in There is a historical category and theoretically a voter pool for that stuff as well, but someone who is theoretically unqualified can opt in to various categories. Pre TV era you have to have a historian present your case to Dave and others. That's how guys like Henri Deglane have been inducted in recent years. Might be someone like that this year which would likely be based on Karl Stern's research. I forget who, Boston AWA guy.
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Nov 11, 2018 21:58
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I think thats really important because there are guys who dropped from the ballot because their category was bloated with guys who should already be in so the votes were split (Blue Panther) and guys whose style is dead so they people don't understand how great their work was in context (Volk Han). Both shoulf be in historical
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Nov 11, 2018 22:06
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Smoking Crow posted:I think thats really important because there are guys who dropped from the ballot because their category was bloated with guys who should already be in so the votes were split (Blue Panther) and guys whose style is dead so they people don't understand how great their work was in context (Volk Han). Both shoulf be in historical It's why Dave makes a case for Tamura whose style like Volk Han's doesn't exist anymore. Also Hall of Famers hanging on and having non Hall of Fame years at the end of a career has happened in sports before and will happen again. It doesn't take away from them being a hall of famer
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Nov 11, 2018 22:18
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I haven't seen that much of tamura how does his work compare to han's
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Nov 11, 2018 23:03
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Wrestling Observer Daily Update posted:The 2018 Hall of Fame issue will be out in six days. There will be seven new members that were voted into the Hall of Fame by a panel of reporters, current and former wrestlers and others in the business as well as historians. The issue will breakdown the voting in detail. Less than a week away!
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Dec 14, 2018 07:58
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God, I really hope Kenny got in just for the arguments it'll cause.
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Dec 14, 2018 10:18
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Put Lex Luger and the Steiners (as a tag team) in, imo.
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Dec 14, 2018 15:35
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