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Wednesday can't come soon enough.
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Apr 15, 2024 07:22
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Because he wants them to attempt to kill him. Given one of Sheev's main endgames was declaring the Jedi to be traitors, having them torn from all the power structures of the Republic, isolated and killed. Having a bunch of them walk into his goddamn office and try to kill must have seemed like loving christmas.
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Apr 15, 2024 08:55
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We're on monday, it will be here soon.
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Apr 15, 2024 08:55
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LinkesAuge posted:In fantasy this "chaos is a ladder" approach is pretty popular for "schemers" but there is a reason why this isn't true in real life politics because in reality these "bombs" have the chance to blow up in your face. So it's a rather popular trope to use but in actual practise you see real schemers do the opposite, ie reduce chaos which means to eliminate random chances/events that could work against them because anything could further the plans of your rivals/opponents just as much but there will always be more of them than the single individual you are so just betting on chance is unwise. In Palpatine's case though, one of his central goals is destabilizing the Republic, so basically any action he takes in that area is, at worst, a continuation of status quo. If we look at TPM for example, he's so completely isolated from the action that even if the Trade Federation's just army burns up in the atmosphere, all he's lost is time, really, and he knows that he'll get another chance down the road. Megillah Gorilla posted:Given one of Sheev's main endgames was declaring the Jedi to be traitors, having them torn from all the power structures of the Republic, isolated and killed. Having a bunch of them walk into his goddamn office and try to kill must have seemed like loving christmas. It does play exactly into his hands (I love the bit in the novelization where the edited recording of this encounter gets played as evidence of the Jedis' betrayal in the Senate) but also, Sheev spends so much time tossing bouncy balls onto the pavement that he just lives for the chance to go ham on somebody. There's that Maul arc in CW where he clowns on Maul and Savage, and especially the brain chip arc where I'm 99% sure he reveals to Fives that he's the secret manipulator of the entire war because he's kind of bored and thinks it'd be funny.
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Apr 15, 2024 10:58
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Oh yeah, Sheev is a complete drama elemental. He's a high school drama club and he's all the members. He's a Tumblrite starting poo poo with slash fic writers. e: just found out that Sheeve is a word. It's a wheel with a groove in the rim, like you find in a pulley. Thanks google 
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Apr 15, 2024 11:37
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Oh yeah, Sheev is a complete drama elemental. He's a high school drama club and he's all the members. He's a Tumblrite starting poo poo with slash fic writers. That explains all the pulley discs on all the imperial uniforms
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Apr 15, 2024 12:43
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Rochallor posted:because he's kind of bored and thinks it'd be funny. And the Zilla Beast episodes. He's completely indulging himself in evil and it's almost kind of endearing.
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Apr 15, 2024 13:02
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What a week, eh Palpatine? It's Monday, Vader.
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Apr 15, 2024 20:29
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Given one of Sheev's main endgames was declaring the Jedi to be traitors, having them torn from all the power structures of the Republic, isolated and killed. Having a bunch of them walk into his goddamn office and try to kill must have seemed like loving christmas. It's more than that, because he doesn't want to make the Jedi look like traitors. The Jedi ARE traitors to the Republic as it actually exists. There's a fundamental contradiction between 'being a Jedi' and 'being a Republican' that had all along been quietly sidestepped until Sheev drew attention to it. Let's looks specifically at what is going on in the conflict with Windu: Mace Windu is heading over to arrest Palpatine and, like, put him in jail and stuff. That's the plan he sets out to enact. Then, upon witnessing Palpatine's psychic abilities, Windu suddenly declares Palpatine too dangerous to be left alive. The plan changes, and in a way that kinda makes sense. Windu is shocked, scared, whatever. He's suddenly confronted with the stakes: their ancient enemy is going to control the government. We gotta act now!!! But Windu simultaneously does something extremely curious: he admits that the entire Republic legal system is a fraud. The Republic system is one where the rich can usually escape consequences, and people like the Chancellor are effectively above the law. (Note that even Newt Gunray isn't, like, executed after doing an ethnic cleansing in Episode 1. He gets to go wander off and chill on Geonosis.) Palpatine busting out the cool sword moves doesn't prove that the courts are broken. Windu already knew. This is an important thing that fans often overlook, because of all the flashy lightning and stuff. Palpatine's control over the courts is not a result of psychic powers. Like, he never appears to "mind-trick" anybody. No, Palpatine's power is exactly the same as Valorum's: he is a conduit between the obscenely rich and the legal system they wish to influence. The Empire is necessarily supported by a large proportion of those rich. But, nonetheless, Windu still walked into the room with the intention of arresting Palpatine. He still acted as though the system worked. And this is because, up until the sword fight, the 'corruption' had been kept 'tolerable' - because it was not yet in a style that Windu considered dangerous. It used to benefit 'the good guys' - people like Valorum, or even Gunray - and now it benefits a spooky Satan who doesn't like him! And, so Windu abandons both the Jedi code and the Republican form of democracy, to assassinate the elected leader and illegally impose Jedi rule until the 'corruption' is eliminated. In this way, Windu behaves as a Sith. Palpatine is right. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Apr 15, 2024 |
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Apr 15, 2024 21:19
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i dont disagree per se, but one thing that gets overlooked a lot is that Windu was going to bring Palpatine in to stand trial in the Senate, i.e. an impeachment, rather than in the courts.
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Apr 15, 2024 23:41
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:i dont disagree per se, but one thing that gets overlooked a lot is that Windu was going to bring Palpatine in to stand trial in the Senate, i.e. an impeachment, rather than in the courts. He's too dangerous to bring in alive! He controls the senate and the courts!!
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Apr 16, 2024 00:41
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if you have the chance to kill Hitler, you kill Hitler. Windu knew that.
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Apr 16, 2024 03:34
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twistedmentat posted:if you have the chance to kill Hitler, you kill Hitler. Windu knew that. Palpatine isn't a Hitler figure, though. He's a Satan figure. That's why Windu wasn't able to kill him. We do have a couple Hitler-y figures in Star Wars, but these are like Tarkin and Jabba. They're just big, stupid assholes. Palpatine is different. Like, one thing that always goes unexamined is this: why can't Vader just murk Palpatine? At the end of Episode 6, Vader just picks him up and tosses him into a hole using his robo-arms. There aren't even any psychic powers involved. Couldn't Vader have done that at any time? The answer's already there in Episode 6, but Windu's fate helps clarify it: Palpatine is only ever made stronger by his opponents' sinful behaviour - their ideological failings. I'd even go so far as to say this is the primary source of his power. However well-intentioned he may have been, Windu's ultimate goal is identical to Dooku's: to impose a Jedi rule that would do little about the actual injustice in the Galaxy. They're not going to free the slaves, and so they only strengthen Palpatine's position as this ultimate cynic. Here's a fun question I don't believe anyone's ever asked before: is the Rebel Alliance a kind of 'controlled opposition'? Palpatine's M.O. in the Clone Wars was, as we all know, to play the two sides against each other and see what happens. It didn't ultimately matter which side won. So, when we get to Episode 6, isn't it clear that Palpatine still doesn't care? 'Kill Vader,' he implies, 'and victory is yours.' If Luke chooses to kill this suffering dude (who turns out to be literally God), the Rebel Alliance survives, all the rebels are spared, Luke becomes second-in-command of the galaxy, etc. All his dreams can come true. Luke can only actually 'win' by forsaking The Jedi, The Alliance, Leia, Anakin, and even himself. He destroys it all, as a pure "gently caress you" - and this ethical decision to fail is what, paradoxically, weakens Palpatine enough for Vader to intervene.
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Apr 16, 2024 06:32
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:- and this ethical decision to fail is what, paradoxically, weakens Palpatine enough for Vader to intervene. Turns chair around and sits on it backwards, and you know who else failed and paradoxically inverted the highest and the lowest. That’s a problem for your interpretation. Luke makes the Christ choice, not Vader / Anakin. Luke’s choice not to fight his father is the redemptive act. Luke’s the savior.
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Apr 16, 2024 07:02
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Palpatine isn't a Hitler figure, though. He's a Satan figure. That's why Windu wasn't able to kill him. We do have a couple Hitler-y figures in Star Wars, but these are like Tarkin and Jabba. They're just big, stupid assholes. Palpatine is different. You type beautifully for someone with a hamster running around in their head.
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Apr 16, 2024 07:10
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Here's a fun question I don't believe anyone's ever asked before: is the Rebel Alliance a kind of 'controlled opposition'? Palpatine's M.O. in the Clone Wars was, as we all know, to play the two sides against each other and see what happens. It didn't ultimately matter which side won. So, when we get to Episode 6, isn't it clear that Palpatine still doesn't care? 'Kill Vader,' he implies, 'and victory is yours.' If Luke chooses to kill this suffering dude (who turns out to be literally God), the Rebel Alliance survives, all the rebels are spared, Luke becomes second-in-command of the galaxy, etc. All his dreams can come true. Not canonically (yet), but that is a premise in the v Force Unleashed games.
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Apr 16, 2024 10:58
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Bar Ran Dun posted:Turns chair around and sits on it backwards, and you know who else failed and paradoxically inverted the highest and the lowest. Well, no, because: 1) Luke doesn’t die. 2) Luke isn’t God. Vader’s intervention and self-sacrifice is crucial. Palpatine isn’t just going to wither and die in the face of Luke’s newfound ethical pacifism. Luke’s self-sacrifice is like Padme’s, two decades earlier. He just gives up. “So be it, Jedi.” Vader shows that action is necessary for egalitarianism to happen. The ‘inversion of highest and lowest’, or whatever you want to call it, occurs when God is shown to be this suffering slime with the robo-arms. Vader is an inhuman slave, more droid than man, part of that underclass - and then dead. “Ecce homo!” SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Apr 16, 2024 |
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Apr 16, 2024 16:11
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I do enjoy the take that the end of ROTJ is about how peaceful protest and self-sacrifice has no pragmatic value to a cause beyond possibly inspiring the actual pragmatic violence needed to defeat evil. I think this is a pretty important message when we've been told for generations by evil people that the only valid protest is peaceful.
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Apr 16, 2024 17:22
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Baronjutter posted:I do enjoy the take that the end of ROTJ is about how peaceful protest and self-sacrifice has no pragmatic value to a cause beyond possibly inspiring the actual pragmatic violence needed to defeat evil. I think this is a pretty important message when we've been told for generations by evil people that the only valid protest is peaceful. Pretty much; Luke reaches the apotheosis of being a Jedi by tossing away his sword, as Windu failed to do, but "being a Jedi" isn't what the galaxy needs. I'm not sure how pragmatic this is, though. Pragmatic violence is when Luke & the gang blow up Jabba's operation. And, like, yeah, Jabba is a real piece of poo poo who does human trafficking and stuff, so who cares if he dies? Jedi good! But Luke isn't there to free the slaves but just to free Han. And, notably, both he and Leia offer to pay Jabba, allowing Jabba's operation to persist in a mutually-beneficial arrangement. "You can either profit by this, or be destroyed." This is pretty much exactly how the prequel-era Jedis behave in Episode 1. They're not going to stop the corporate entities like the Trade Federation from amassing resources to the point that they control entire solar systems. They're just going to ensure that they do so for the Republic, without going against Republic interests.
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Apr 16, 2024 18:13
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Pretty much; Luke reaches the apotheosis of being a Jedi by tossing away his sword, as Windu failed to do, but "being a Jedi" isn't what the galaxy needs. Yeah this is a good point too. They aren't interested in fixing the systemic issues that let people like Jabba thrive and have slave empires, they aren't interested in even helping Jabba's direct victims, they're only here to rescue Han who has value because he's a main character. But then again, you really do have to pick your battles when you're trying to save an entire galaxy.
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Apr 16, 2024 19:29
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:If Palpatine knows they’re alive, because magic, why is Leia allowed to work as a diplomat (and an Alliance spy)? Why was Obiwan able to successfully hide with Luke on Tatooine? If Palpatine has effective omniscience, allowing him to remotely view inside these secret rebel bases, why doesn’t he use it except in this one instance where he’s just being mean to Vader? Did he purposefully keep them alive for some reason? What are the limits of this ability? And why is he so invested in Anakin’s family??? SuperMechagodzilla posted:Here's a fun question I don't believe anyone's ever asked before: is the Rebel Alliance a kind of 'controlled opposition'? All kidding aside, I can't agree with this. Luke pretty clearly loathes Jabba and is set on killing him. But he makes sure to provoke Jabba into giving him an excuse, because that's the Jedi way. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Apr 16, 2024 |
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Apr 16, 2024 19:57
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Baronjutter posted:I think this is a pretty important message when we've been told for generations by evil people that the only valid protest is peaceful. Pickup a copy of Moral Man and Immoral Society. It’s very much is the opposite of what most folks think it is.
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Apr 16, 2024 20:54
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Halloween Jack posted:All kidding aside, I can't agree with this. Luke pretty clearly loathes Jabba and is set on killing him. But he makes sure to provoke Jabba into giving him an excuse, because that's the Jedi way. Is it clear? Like, let’s do another of those thought experiments, and assume Jabba responds like “ok, sure. I like money, and I see which way the wind is blowing here. It’s a deal: You give me money, I give you Han, and y’all just stay out of Hutt Space.” What happens then? Do they just shoot him? Do they just shoot Jabba in his loving face?! No; that’s not ‘the Jedi way’. With both Watto and Gunray, the Jedi go into the situation fully intending to negotiate, and just use their psychic powers (or the blunt threat of extralegal violence) to tip the scale. “I have word that the chancellor's ambassadors are with you now, and that you have been commanded to reach a settlement.” A settlement! Now, I don’t fully disagree with you; the fact that Luke “gives” Jabba the droids (with his sword inside) shows what his main game is. And Leia’s plan is a straightforward prison break, where she only resorts to bribery after being caught. But still, the formal choice between profit and death is a false binary, isn’t it? Why not “release all your prisoners, all your slaves, or be destroyed?” Why is paying this gangster their go-to ‘reasonable’ offer, even if it’s one meant to be refused? Ideology! Halloween Jack posted:
Well, that brings us back to the topic that spawned all this: what’s up with Anakin’s ghost? Like, what the gently caress is going on with Anakin’s ghost? That leads us to the broader question of how does Disney interpret Star Wars? - and the answer, in the the case of the ST, is that it doesn’t. The ST as a whole is totally agnostic as to whether Vader or Luke is ‘the chosen one’, culminating in that weird mess with Ben Solo and Rey - representing those two sides of the debate - being a ‘Force Dyad’ but not really, swapping lives back and forth. Rey dies (but not really) and then Ben dies (but not really???), leading to the implication that they’ve merged and Rey is now a ‘Force Monad’. Or not?
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Apr 17, 2024 00:26
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https://twitter.com/culturecrave/status/1780325881665491386?s=46 Bless this man
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Apr 17, 2024 00:34
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Halloween Jack posted:Sith values include wearing uniforms, building warships, and hiding maps with contrived puzzles. And that's why the bad guys are always cooler. Aesthetics is of supreme importance to evil characters Not just Star Wars either. Sauron instructed his subordinates to only steal black horses from Rohan. For branding, of course. This is, and I can't stress this enough, explicitly stated in The Two Towers.
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Apr 17, 2024 04:16
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I still think of Palpatine's plan with the Empire was to turn the entire galaxy in a Dark Side energy pump. The misery of the citizens, the gleeful sadism of his officers, the complete lack of safety railing: too drink that misery milkshake. Why do you think the labor prison in Andor was so completely dehumanizing: to make the Death Star just a little 'sharper'.
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Apr 17, 2024 04:25
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Vader can’t overcome or defeat Palpatine by killing him becauae he hates him: that’s the Sith way and the essence of the Dark Side. Killing your master and replacing him doesn’t end anything, it completes the process through which you come to embody that which you hate. That’s why it takes Luke shouting “Father” as he’s getting Force Lightninged to death to empower Vader. He wanted to kill Palpatine to replace him, which requires surviving; now, he wants to save Luke, the son he loves, by killing Palpatine, and his survival doesn’t matter at all. He’s still a shattered husk afterwards, unable to tell Luke that he loves him or that he loves Leia, but he communicates that without saying it. Rose expresses the same idea in TLJ: fighting to save what you love matters because fighting out of hate makes you into what you fight. Kylo Ren becoming “the new boss” illustrates that point; arguably, Ren is less secure after offing Snoke because he is clearly not ready to be the Sith Master. Andor, of course, rejects the framework around all of this that insists on seeing the struggle in terms of Jedi va Sith and Light vs Dark. It’s a point that TLJ makes only half-heartedly: people across the galaxy suffer while the wealthy few profit from that suffering, and neither Jedi nor Sith seem much concerned with changing that. Indeed, the old Jedi order is about containing and controlling any threats to the Republic; using Jedi powers to win a slave is acceptable but using them to end slavery is unthinkable. Extract these privileged few from the equation, and the struggle is clear; the supposed compromises of rebellion fall apart when, in the microcosm of a prison break, we see direct evidence that dismantling “order” even at the costs of violence and death leads somewhere worthwhile.
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Apr 17, 2024 05:20
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Only three more episodes of The Bad Batch left.
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Apr 17, 2024 06:14
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At least we have The Acolyte and Tales of the Empire to look forward to this year
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Apr 17, 2024 06:38
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Narsham posted:Andor, of course, rejects the framework around all of this that insists on seeing the struggle in terms of Jedi va Sith and Light vs Dark. Andor doesn’t reject that framework. It rejects the naïveté. There is still a framing of characters who are for only themselves, and characters who are for others. The light characters are not naive but use the self will of dark characters. Compare Luthen’s monologue: “I’m condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them. I burn my decency for someone else’s future.” To: “The preservation of a democratic civilization requires the wisdom of the serpent and the harmlessness of the dove. The children of light must be armed with the wisdom of the children of darkness but remain free from their malice. They must know the power of self-interest human society without giving it moral justification. They must have this wisdom in order they may beguile, deflect, harness and restrain self-interest, individual and collective, for sake of the community.” In other words Andor is still very much framed in light and dark, but in realist way rather than a naive idealist way.
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Apr 17, 2024 06:43
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And it’s not implicit it explicitly still frames in terms of light and darkness “There is a wound that won't heal at the center of the galaxy. There is a darkness reaching like rust into everything around us. We let it grow, and now it's here. It's here and it's not visiting anymore. It wants to stay. The Empire is a disease that thrives in darkness”
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Apr 17, 2024 07:04
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Narsham posted:Vader can’t overcome or defeat Palpatine by killing him becauae he hates him: that’s the Sith way and the essence of the Dark Side. Killing your master and replacing him doesn’t end anything, it completes the process through which you come to embody that which you hate. Obscurantism! In the specific context of the film's events, Rose is making a callback to her sister's death at the start of the film - seemingly unaware that the sister died to save her. Rose clearly believes her sister made the wrong choice and died full of hate, but that sister is last seen clutching the "BFF" pendant she shares with Rose. So, did this character act out of love or hate, and were her actions consequently good or bad? How do we distinguish the two? Zooming out a bit, it actually doesn't matter. Whether loving or hateful (or both, or neither) General Leia refers to Rose's sister as a 'dead hero with no leader' - and that's really the crux of it. 'Saving what you love' means defending your team, adhering to leadership's overall goals, not going rogue. The sister was bad because she disobeyed a direct order from Leia, leader of the Resistance. People tend to overlook that first part of the Rose quote: ''That's how [the Resistance is] gonna win [against the First Order]. Not fighting what we hate. Saving what we love.'' In the full context of the ST, the Resistance is a rather bad, dubious organization that Palpatine secretly created as a means for him to take over the Galaxy (while disguised as Rey). It's bad if the Resistance wins - and lucky that they seemingly don't. (The Exegolians are all killed at the end, but the Galaxy-spanning First Order is seemingly fine.) So, how does Rose's philosophy map back onto the Luke/Vader thing? It doesn't!
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Apr 17, 2024 07:33
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Vinylshadow posted:At least we have The Acolyte and Tales of the Empire to look forward to this year Is he taking a poo poo?
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Apr 17, 2024 11:05
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Is he taking a poo poo? It's clearly a wookie taking a dookie.
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Apr 17, 2024 11:11
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Is he taking a poo poo? he’s making Star Wars
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Apr 17, 2024 12:53
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Next season of Obi Wan is 'in the can'.
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Apr 17, 2024 13:13
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Today’s Bad Batch: ONE WAY OUT
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Apr 17, 2024 14:10
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Just two more to go now. As I said before, I’m hoping the very last episode is roughly as long as the very first one (or at the very least, longer than the average episode) I assume the confrontation with Ventress from the trailer is probably going to happen right near the end (though what she’s doing there I’m still not sure). I also wouldn’t be surprised if this season ultimately winds up spilling into whatever the next major animated (or live action if they decide to pull another Ahsoka for some reason) project is. Larryb fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Apr 17, 2024 |
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Apr 17, 2024 14:16
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Just went 'gently caress it' this week and downloaded the episode - clear as a bell. So, for some reason what I get streamed is dark as balls, but  are perfectly watchable. Gonna get the rest of the season now so I can actually watch it properly.Thanks Disney.
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Apr 17, 2024 15:55
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Disney's streaming is loving bad sometimes esp with HDR content. I watched at work via Firefox and I don't think it was HD at all. This was maximum tension throughout. Bra-loving-vo. drat.
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Apr 17, 2024 18:34
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