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Veloxyll posted:Though I am not sure if it branches much. I was decent at space flying by then so I didn't really fail many missions if I remember right, the way WC4 handles branches is basically A or B pathways along one critical path, there's no winning track/losing track.
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Oct 15, 2018 20:26
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Psion posted:if I remember right, the way WC4 handles branches is basically A or B pathways along one critical path, there's no winning track/losing track. So far it seems like the moral choice system boils down to "be a dick/don't be a dick" with the only consequence to being a dick so far being more tedious missions.  Oh right, and I think we made Catscratch sad at one point, which was kind of funny.
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Oct 15, 2018 20:42
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I never actually beat WC4 myself, but someone I knew told me that if you picked the "stay on the Lexington"-branch of the game, at some point there's a mission where the Lexington is under attack and just explodes, you don't even get a mission to prevent it, game over. Of course, they may have been full of bullshit. On the other hand, considering the quality so far, I wouldn't doubt it.
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Oct 15, 2018 20:46
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PurpleXVI posted:I never actually beat WC4 myself, but someone I knew told me that if you picked the "stay on the Lexington"-branch of the game, at some point there's a mission where the Lexington is under attack and just explodes, you don't even get a mission to prevent it, game over. Close, the version I've heard from a few different places is that you just get stuck in a mission with endlessly respawning enemies.
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Oct 15, 2018 20:58
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Cythereal posted:Close, the version I've heard from a few different places is that you just get stuck in a mission with endlessly respawning enemies.
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Oct 15, 2018 21:02
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Psion posted:if I remember right, the way WC4 handles branches is basically A or B pathways along one critical path, there's no winning track/losing track. Essentially, yes. Depending on the choices you make after you've defected (since defection is a "BUT THOU MUST" choice--not defecting when you have the 2nd change to results in a never-ending run of Borderworld ships destroying the Lexington), you have one of two endings crop up. ....unless, that is, you blow it at the very end and get executed I don't think I'll be doing that (although you can never rule out stupid poo poo like that with me at the helm).
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Oct 16, 2018 04:30
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If a loss in WC3 sends the player to Alpha Centauri, the player gets to play two missions and then loses regardless. The invulnerable Dreadnought appears near Earth and game over. Prophecy was my first 3D accelerated game. I haven't played it in two decades, but I'd call it piss easy compared to this, up to the final act. In the Secret Missions I'd get blown up by my own carrier more than the enemy. But then I had a Sidewinder joystick.
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Oct 16, 2018 06:03
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RearmingStrafbomber posted:If a loss in WC3 sends the player to Alpha Centauri, the player gets to play two missions and then loses regardless. The invulnerable Dreadnought appears near Earth and game over. I'm sure having a joystick that is supported by the game helps. I have some generic gamepads that I might do better with, but I can't re-map my controls (I could do j2k, but I don't need more hassle--besides, my gently caress-ups are funny sometimes...........sometimes....) and I don't think I could get all the functions I would need onto the controller in an intelligent way. I do promise to save after every mission from now on, though. No need to see me screw things up THAT badly
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Oct 18, 2018 21:00
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Professor Duck posted:I do promise to save after every mission from now on, though. No need to see me screw things up THAT badly Lesson learned. And repeated. ...frequently.  It's hard to get back into the "save always, save often" mentality of 90s DOS games though. Speaking of lessons being learned and repeated, I bring you part 5! Just one this week but it's twice as long, because that's just sort of how it turned out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3sobwgJu-w
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Oct 21, 2018 01:11
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WCIV was actually my favorite. I loved the branching story and the ship design was neat, granted I liked Prophecy's designs more but they were still cool. That Banshee on the front cover really sold it for me.
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Oct 21, 2018 13:34
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Dragons are cool but unfortunately are made by space Nazis. I suppose that's in line with wunderwaffe stuff...
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Oct 21, 2018 18:31
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WC3’s Excalibur is the best use of all 12 polygons allowed in the render budget
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Oct 21, 2018 18:42
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RangerKarl posted:Dragons are cool but unfortunately are made by space Nazis. I suppose that's in line with wunderwaffe stuff... Really? Dragons are laaame. They're just generic american jet fighter fantasy in sapaaace.
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Oct 22, 2018 01:31
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Gridlocked posted:Really? Dragons are laaame. They're just generic american jet fighter fantasy in sapaaace. yeah, but this is wing commander, space fantasy jet fighters is why we're here
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Oct 22, 2018 09:10
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Honestly I kind of liked a lot of the WC1 and 2 designs more than 3 and onwards. They were a bit more fanciful, it felt like, and actually had some colours and designs besides brown and gray some of the time. EDIT: Also Jesus, I'm not sure if it's just because it's video and I'm not actively playing the game. But it feels kind of impossible to keep an overview of that mission. Do you even have any indicator of how banged-up the escort targets are before they suddenly go "BLAR, I AM EXPLODE"? At least Freespace gave you a health % marker on your HUD any time you had a mission-vital target. PurpleXVI fucked around with this message at 11:00 on Oct 22, 2018 |
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Oct 22, 2018 10:47
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PurpleXVI posted:EDIT: Also Jesus, I'm not sure if it's just because it's video and I'm not actively playing the game. But it feels kind of impossible to keep an overview of that mission. Do you even have any indicator of how banged-up the escort targets are before they suddenly go "BLAR, I AM EXPLODE"? At least Freespace gave you a health % marker on your HUD any time you had a mission-vital target. The manual says you can target friendly ships if you have Smart Targeting off (using Ctrl-S), but outside of that no. I suppose they never needed to have more than 7 ships in the same block at one time And speaking of stylo space jets, the Bearcat in this game is a pretty good looking bird! Too bad it's underutilized by the campaign due to plot reasons.
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Oct 22, 2018 13:19
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PurpleXVI posted:Honestly I kind of liked a lot of the WC1 and 2 designs more than 3 and onwards. They were a bit more fanciful, it felt like, and actually had some colours and designs besides brown and gray some of the time. perils of going to low-poly, low-res texture 3D over 2D sprites, I guess. It's true though, WC3/4 are ... not really that good looking as games go. I think 3 did a better job hiding it, too.
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Oct 22, 2018 18:06
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Wow, this thread took off when I wasn't looking! So, since we're getting into debates about ships, here's my list of favorites, from an aesthetic POV: 1.) Thunderbolt 2.) Banshee 3.) Arrow 4.) Dragon 5.) Excalibur 6.) Bearcat 7.) Hellcat 8.) Vindicator 9.) Avenger 10.) Longbow *see part 1's title* There's too much "plane in space" aesthetic. Hell, even Confed's cap ships look like aircraft carriers. I don't know if the designer's intent was to make the Border Worlds' ships look more "spare parts cobbled together" than a professional sheen. Since it's been forever since I've played, I easily enjoy flying the Banshee the best, even though its guns are woefully underpowered compared to almost anything else. PurpleXVI posted:Honestly I kind of liked a lot of the WC1 and 2 designs more than 3 and onwards. They were a bit more fanciful, it felt like, and actually had some colours and designs besides brown and gray some of the time. Like what's already been said, you're SUPPOSED to be able to cycle all targets (Except that it doesn't work the ONE TIME that you might need it) and get a readout on them. I suppose I could've communicated with them (maybe? I didn't try, so I don't know if I actually could've there) and asked their status. It's finished, though--sorry if it was painful to sit through. It was equally as painful to play the mission
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Oct 22, 2018 22:25
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That 'destroy the capship missiles' mission was glossed up and released as the Starlancer demo. For that reason, I never bought or played Starlancer.
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Oct 23, 2018 04:19
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RearmingStrafbomber posted:That 'destroy the capship missiles' mission was glossed up and released as the Starlancer demo. You made a very good decision. Starlancer was trash.
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Oct 23, 2018 04:57
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I got Starlancer for 1.99 at an EB Games before they went out of business I'm not sure who lost in the end, me or the store
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Oct 23, 2018 06:19
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I honestly liked some things about Starlancer, but God did I ever hate other things. I liked all of the out-of-mission fluff and details, like news on other crews, the general going of the war, etc. but fuuuuuuuck some of the missions. "Hey, you gotta fly circles around this giant space dildo that will one-shot you if you fly the wrong way for a second or linger for more than a tiny amount of time in the wrong place." I eventually got pissed off enough at the missions to just quit, and then later when I tried playing it again, it wouldn't run on my newer PC. Also the Freelancer follow-up felt like a bit of a gently caress you. "Congrats, you fought long and hard for these guys, but they lost anyway. Now on to the next game..."
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Oct 23, 2018 10:03
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Never did understand why the whole ion cannon end boss station was even designed like that. Did somebody in the dev team actually enjoy getting instafragged by a hitscan weapon aimed via aimbot?
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Oct 23, 2018 13:40
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Digital Anvil subcontracted out to Warthog; that studio put together some other space sim titles and they made the same bad choices. Couldn't tell you if it was "we need to add challenge, so let's add bullshit challenge" or if they actually thought it was compelling gameplay. It wasn't just the bullshit cannon though that was the most egregious display. generally I think treating mission design as 'puzzles' - that is, writing missions where you will get surprised with no way to recover other than restarting and knowing about it in advance is cheap in more ways than one, and they sure did that a lot Psion fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Oct 24, 2018 |
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Oct 24, 2018 20:12
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RangerKarl posted:Never did understand why the whole ion cannon end boss station was even designed like that. Did somebody in the dev team actually enjoy getting instafragged by a hitscan weapon aimed via aimbot? Based on the vast majority of action games that came out in the 90s: Yes! I think you're referring to Starlancer, but even in general it's kind of incredible how much of a nostalgia busting experience this has been so far. Anyway, a bit later than expected, a two part update! I was gonna do this in two parts over a few days, but... work really sucked this week, and here we are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nACO37Zo1w8 Side note: For real, screw that tractor beam garbage. While we were trying to get through this I Googled around a bit, and there were like a dozen posts about the stupid thing on GoG's forums alone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRVletFvUNE
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Oct 28, 2018 17:13
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Melek looks like he's been hitting the anime. I'm pretty sure he was a lot more menacing in WCIII, though having Tim Curry as your voice helps too.
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Oct 28, 2018 17:40
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Today, I wanted to show off the script for this game. There's the original treatment (which actually had 3 different parts instead of two--its an interesting alternative), and then the actual final script for the game. You can check those out here Also, some of these later missions have become....ridiculous. So I'm dropping the difficulty 'cause I suck and I'm sure people are sick of me doing the same mission over and over. it's not even funny anymore. Professor Duck fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Oct 29, 2018 |
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Oct 29, 2018 21:09
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Just getting caught up with the LP; Loving this game and the commentary so far! Back in 1996/97 my family got a Dell Pentium specced to the hilt so that it would be the -last- computer we'd ever have to buy. My older half-brother would come live with us in the summer, and I remember him bringing that massive red 6-CD binder, the keyboard function overlay, the Microsoft Sidewinder Pro Joystick with every button mapped out just so, and being just amazed at what was presented in front of me. I was 10 at the time, and my own gaming library was limited to shareware titles like Keen, Jazz Jackrabbit, whatever could be found in the $5 diskette bin at the book store. To say the likes of WC:IV and MechWarrior 2 Mercenaries on the family computer was earth shattering at the time is an understatement. He had played the previous games and would explain the backstory of the characters and the Kilrathi and the like, but in typical older brother fashion I was forbidden from ever touching his stuff. Long story short, this LP is quite the nostalgia trip. Also, Mark Hammill as the protag!? Plus Biff and a host of others! How in the world did younger me miss that?
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Nov 1, 2018 20:19
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Professor Duck posted:Today, I wanted to show off the script for this game. There's the original treatment (which actually had 3 different parts instead of two--its an interesting alternative), and then the actual final script for the game. You can check those out [url=www.wcnews.com/archives/wc4-scripts.shtml]here[/url the original treatment is hilarious to me since even then they had to reduce the scope to actually ship it, and it was Origin's most expensive game at the time, which sounds unfortunately familiar. Here's a direct quote from Roberts in Strike Commander's manual, released 1993, as a retrospective on a game they originally planned to launch in 1991. quote:In hindsight, knowing what a truly Herculean task Strike Commander turned into, the what's that quote? once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, but three times... Psion fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Nov 1, 2018 |
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Nov 1, 2018 21:10
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And Strike Commander wasn't even a particularly good flight sim, just kind of rad to dumb kid me who loved fighter planes and Wing Commander.
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Nov 1, 2018 23:34
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Professor Duck posted:
I don't blame you. I polished off WC3 recently and decided to reinstall WC4 after seeing this LP. Only just booted it up, and boy howdy are missiles fatal.
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Nov 3, 2018 06:42
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hoonigan_neil posted:Just getting caught up with the LP; Loving this game and the commentary so far! Glad you're enjoying my ineptitude In seriousness, though, I'm happy for that....and yeah, one of the big reasons I'm doing this is that nostalgia factor. I absolutely loved this game when I played it first, and I would boot it up from time to time until I got to a system that couldn't run it anymore (because backwards compatibility for this title is....bizarre). The other half is that I started watching an LP for Prophecy and got really pissed off that the guy playing it had no clue about the series leading up to that one. Stupid reason, yes, but a reason nonetheless.
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Nov 5, 2018 02:30
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RangerKarl posted:I don't blame you. I polished off WC3 recently and decided to reinstall WC4 after seeing this LP. Only just booted it up, and boy howdy are missiles fatal. A-yep. Its why I'm not passing many missions on the first go. Once you use up your decoys (or there's an enemy really close to you) you're toast on the first missile.
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Nov 5, 2018 02:31
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Professor Duck posted:A-yep. Its why I'm not passing many missions on the first go. Once you use up your decoys (or there's an enemy really close to you) you're toast on the first missile. Yeah they're pretty  nasty, especially in the missions we've been doing latel y. This one in particular was extra rough because they decided no shields and no nav would be a GREAT challenge. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7KXDhwGdyQ
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Nov 5, 2018 02:48
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Psion posted:the original treatment is hilarious to me since even then they had to reduce the scope to actually ship it, and it was Origin's most expensive game at the time, which sounds unfortunately familiar. Here's a direct quote from Roberts in Strike Commander's manual, released 1993, as a retrospective on a game they originally planned to launch in 1991. He's the Peter Molyneax of flight sims. I never took issue with Chris Roberts (since I liked all of the WC games) until the whole Star Citizen poo poo started. Then I looked more and yeah....he doesn't understand scope vs. development time.
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Nov 7, 2018 01:13
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I took issue with the Wing Commander movie because it was bad, but I take your point. It's one of those things where, in hindsight, all the clues were there the whole time but it didn't matter as much, because it never got as bad as it could have. now, well, uh, it kinda has.
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Nov 7, 2018 05:57
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What's kind of interesting about the WC games in hindsight to me anyway is I really have no idea who else worked on them apart from the actors and CR. The only person to really make a name for themselves from this series just sort of rode, and is riding, that train into the ground, but I dunno of any other big names. If anyone knows though I'm glad to be corrected. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxW_dH8l7fA Anyway! For real, when given the choice of "let Maniac get hurt", and "don't let Maniac get hurt", well... what choice is there? None, that's what.
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Nov 14, 2018 02:35
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For this update, I wanted to take a chance to show off some of the print advertising for WC IV. It's definitely a mixed bag of approaches, including a John Romero-Diakatana-esque move in the very first archived example. There are also some other publicity pictures/items here, including t-shirts, and even reels of film! You can check out the stuff here Otherwise, enjoy watching Maniac getting punched in the face
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Nov 14, 2018 22:05
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There is a bit of stuff that I could say about Wing Commander 4.
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Nov 16, 2018 10:35
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Bootcha posted:There is a bit of stuff that I could say about Wing Commander 4. "but I won't because"  just post bootcha just post!!! Psion fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Nov 16, 2018 |
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Nov 16, 2018 20:21
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