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MonsterEnvy posted:Buy lives at the shop. They are really cheap. Good point. If I ever get to play this game, I'm going to abuse the holy hell out of that possibility. I'm playing a simultaneously great yet disappointing Mega Man fan game right now where extra lives are 15 screws a pop, but screw drops are much less generous than in 11. Even then, I top myself off whenever I can. Also, and I say this with absolutely no shame, if I ever get a copy of this game my first play-through will be on Newcomer or whatever the lowest level is called. I want to be able to enjoy the animation and new gameplay systems and pretty art in the most relaxed setting possible, and I can crank it up later if I really want to gently caress with myself.
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Oct 13, 2018 04:26
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| # ? May 16, 2024 01:49 |
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MonsterEnvy posted:Buy lives at the shop. They are really cheap. I would also recommend the upgrade that lets you move at full speed during Speed Gear.
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Oct 13, 2018 04:45
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Wait, are we dispensing tips or passively watching the clown car full of drunken midgets do donuts in a minefield?
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Oct 13, 2018 05:28
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Andrigaar posted:Wait, are we dispensing tips or passively watching the clown car full of drunken midgets do donuts in a minefield? If you vote to throw people into a minefield, it's kinda bad form to make fun of them for getting blown up.
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Oct 13, 2018 05:50
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I'm not mocking them, the thread just has a bunch of spoiler tags which led me to believe they wanted to run it blind for added entertainment value.
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Oct 13, 2018 05:55
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Andrigaar posted:I'm not mocking them, the thread just has a bunch of spoiler tags which led me to believe they wanted to run it blind for added entertainment value. The broad policy is that you're free to discuss a system or level we've encountered but not anything that we haven't. Discussing the store at this point is very close to that line, but I know it exists as it's mentioned in reviews and I've played prior games.
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Oct 13, 2018 11:19
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Well the Game over menu gives the option to visit Dr Lights Lab.
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Oct 15, 2018 02:06
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MonsterEnvy posted:Well the Game over menu gives the option to visit Dr Lights Lab. We all know from the Symphony of the Night LP that I'm illiterate.
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Oct 15, 2018 15:41
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Natural 20 posted:We all know from the Symphony of the Night LP that I'm illiterate. Well, it is a BLIND LP. 
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Oct 15, 2018 17:58
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 Episode 04 - I am so good at this game
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Oct 15, 2018 23:18
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Even when he's dead, Torch Man continues screwing you over from beyond the grave.
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Oct 15, 2018 23:56
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Well, took you some tries, but you did it! You beat the final boss! You won the game! I'm eager to see what's the next LP you have in store.
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Oct 16, 2018 00:23
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aaargh you had over 5000 screws and now you don't (okay you don't actually need them and it means it'll take you a bit longer to become overpowered, which is probably better for the LP anyway... still, ow, hit me right in the OCD) oh god you got the E-tank and got out alive, what the gently caress. I didn't think that was possible. I know you guys weren't in a good place to appreciate it after all that suffering (and frankly, neither was I the first couple of times), but I've actually come to quite like Torch Man as a boss. His attacks are all at least somewhat telegraphed, and aren't that bad to dodge once you learn them, but he's aggressive and reacts to you rather than having a fixed pattern. His attacks tend to cover a lot of space, but all have fairly straightforward counters (slide under the air kicks, jump the ground kicks, and so on). I don't actually know what causes him to do some of the trickier stuff (like the double air kick), or what gets him to do the ground kicks and change sides versus continuing to throw fists, but it seems to me like it depends on your position. It ends up being a pretty dynamic fight, and I think it can be a lot of fun when you're not under stress and terrified of having to replay the stage yet again. I don't know if I'd say he's my favourite robot master in this set, but he's definitely in my top three or so.
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Oct 16, 2018 00:23
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Mazel tov! And did I ignore the part of the video where they said they'd not use the shop at all?
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Oct 16, 2018 01:42
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Andrigaar posted:Mazel tov!
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Oct 16, 2018 03:02
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Jesus, that just looked horrible. That level is a laundry list of lovely game design.
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Oct 16, 2018 03:07
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pointlessone posted:Jesus, that just looked horrible. That level is a laundry list of lovely game design. None of it was lovely. You just have to know what to do. Proper use of Speed Gear makes it go by easily. Even without his weakness proper use of Power and Speed Gear make Torch Man much easier as well. As does usage of a future robot masters weapon.
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Oct 16, 2018 05:57
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Andrigaar posted:Molotov! FTFY
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Oct 16, 2018 07:46
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pointlessone posted:Jesus, that just looked horrible. That level is a laundry list of lovely game design. We'll talk about it later, but from a design perspective the level's actually okay. There's just another problem that makes it a lot worse.
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Oct 16, 2018 13:17
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Honestly,it's just badly telegraphed. Flashman Lasers or the Spike Drops are...kinda working better than this? I felt like the physics are kinda weird as well. Geometry apparently as well
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Oct 16, 2018 13:34
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As someone who played Hollow Knight that exact way (ie slamming my face into a boss until i figured out their patterns) I see your point, but I do think there's a level of technical skill you need to get to in order to deal with the harder bosses, and the same goes for the levels in this game, I think. Admittedly that also comes with practice and time spent in game, but I find the process of getting there satisfying, learning how to do things I wasn't able to before. Also I'm pretty sure you'd be able to kill those tank enemies by shooting the gopher(?) when it pops its head out.
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Oct 16, 2018 13:57
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You can kill them that way, but now you have to bait the head out and turn it into a skillshot for a game that some people complain has an input delay. Not suggested, but you're right that it's possible.
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Oct 16, 2018 14:16
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I think most platforming games are pretty much muscle memory and pattern memorization, the problem generally isn't with that. The problem generally is in pacing and difficulty curve, in that you need to have time to learn and perfect your mechanics seamlessly without it feeling frustrating or not fun. MegaMan generally fails to have a proper difficulty curve due to allowing open choice on the first stages and has an emphasis on punishing game design (deaths sending you back so many goddamn screens, stupid gotcha enemies that you have to know about in advance popping out of pits, blocking your path when chased by all-consuming screen eater stuff and so on) and probably that's why it feels so frustrating to play. It starts off generally requiring a high level of mechanical skill without first properly introducing you to it AND also adds stupid poo poo that you have to memorize for busywork. Since this is supposed to be more modern iteration of MM, unlike 9 and 10, I feel like these are kinks that could have been worked on more.
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Oct 16, 2018 18:35
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fractalairduct posted:Also I'm pretty sure you'd be able to kill those tank enemies by shooting the gopher(?) when it pops its head out. It's a potato. Jack-Off Lantern posted:Honestly,it's just badly telegraphed. Actually the firewalls are telegraphed. Before any firewall rooms you will see rising smoke just before it.
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Oct 16, 2018 18:44
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mortons stork posted:MegaMan generally fails to have a proper difficulty curve due to allowing open choice on the first stages and has an emphasis on punishing game design (deaths sending you back so many goddamn screens, stupid gotcha enemies that you have to know about in advance popping out of pits, blocking your path when chased by all-consuming screen eater stuff and so on) and probably that's why it feels so frustrating to play. It starts off generally requiring a high level of mechanical skill without first properly introducing you to it AND also adds stupid poo poo that you have to memorize for busywork. This is definitely a problem, yeah. The very structure of the game defies having a proper difficulty curve, honestly. Some entries in the series started trying to mitigate it a little with intro stages (most of the X games, but even some of the Classic entries had them), or by giving you access to a smaller subset of levels at first (MM7 and MM8 only offered you four levels at first, and Megaman & Bass had a weird 3-5 divide though it actually gated a specific one or two levels behind each of the first three). Even that doesn't really work, though, because a lot of the difficult-to-learn mechanics tend to be stage-specific gimmicks, and the intro stages tend to be trivial pushovers. It also doesn't help that they tend to implement a difficulty curve within each level to some degree - this comes through very clearly in the Torch Man stage actually. It's very clear that there's a lot of escalation between the three fire-wall sections, and the other sections too; when you combine this with the life system and the sparse checkpoints, it's definitely a recipe for frustration (and the common "dying right before the boss" frustration). It would be a lot less painful to play if they got rid of lives and added more checkpoints (which I praised Casual mode for doing): I can't help contrasting it with games like Celeste, for instance, which are almost entirely instant-death traps but also know that and place checkpoints everywhere so they don't waste the player's time. Megaman uses a lot of the same kind of gotchas as those games, but punishes you more when they inevitably get you. I also wonder if this game in particular wants you to try a stage, give up in frustration and try another until you find one you can get through more easily. I don't remember other Megaman games giving you the option to return to stage select from the game over screen...
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Oct 16, 2018 19:22
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MonsterEnvy posted:Actually the firewalls are telegraphed. Before any firewall rooms you will see rising smoke just before it. I honestly didn't notice this, cause there was a lot going on visually in the backgrounds
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Oct 16, 2018 19:31
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Explopyro posted:
Every single Megaman gave gives you the option to return to stage select. Also Lives are cheap.
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Oct 16, 2018 19:58
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MM11 "It's fine because-" commentary gives me flashbacks to people saying MM1 is the better than 2-3 on the basis of "Because you had to play it in one sitting, but who care's it's not actually that long anyways" People saying stuff like "But you can just grind a bunch of extra lives and E tanks!" are not defending how stretched the game can feel like they think they are without the benefit of muscle memory hindsight  That's for Megaman Legends so I can upgrade my sweet murder arms! Not "Eh just consumables your way through".On the bright side, overall the game is really cool. I beat MM9, bounced off 10. But 11's much more enjoyable and the only real "Issue" is the honest fact it can easily drive people to shout "Oh my god, why won't this stage END?" as demonstrated here on camera.
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Oct 16, 2018 20:05
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fractalairduct posted:As someone who played Hollow Knight that exact way (ie slamming my face into a boss until i figured out their patterns) I see your point, but I do think there's a level of technical skill you need to get to in order to deal with the harder bosses, and the same goes for the levels in this game, I think. Admittedly that also comes with practice and time spent in game, but I find the process of getting there satisfying, learning how to do things I wasn't able to before. I think so, but I think every time I've seen any of those things just knocking them back into a pit is much faster than killing them.
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Oct 16, 2018 21:20
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MonsterEnvy posted:Every single Megaman gave gives you the option to return to stage select. You're right. I'm a bit embarrassed, considering how many of these I've played, but I'm pretty sure this is the first one I actually considered using it in. 
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Oct 17, 2018 00:13
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MonsterEnvy posted:None of it was lovely. You just have to know what to do. Proper use of Speed Gear makes it go by easily. Even without his weakness proper use of Power and Speed Gear make Torch Man much easier as well. I don't mind hard games. I'm not good at them, but I don't mind them. Cuphead's run and gun levels are 100% better than that looked. There's just too many gimmicks in play. Instant kill auto scroll mazes with rubberbanding, nearly worthless checkpointing, inconsistent punishment for killing enemies (dark areas), horrible knockback, non respawning pickups, grinding for currency to use in the shop to buy lives... it just adds up to a lot of player unfriendly choices. Which is a shame, because it looks really good. The backgrounds are wonderful, every enemy is highly detailed and in universe themed (even the little firebomb things look in character), the fire effects are just great looking, but it's attached to gameplay that looked horribly unfun.
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Oct 17, 2018 03:56
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pointlessone posted:I don't mind hard games. I'm not good at them, but I don't mind them. Cuphead's run and gun levels are 100% better than that looked. The checkpointing was fine. The dark areas with the owls were hardly a bother. No need to grind for currency. The Maze was the only real thing of difficulty. And if you use speed gear properly it's not an issue. You can remove the Knockback with an item as well. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Oct 17, 2018 |
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Oct 17, 2018 06:47
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 Episode 05 - Might Have to Not Do This
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Oct 17, 2018 23:14
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In the Mega Man Zero series, if you struck the tops with the ice chip equipped, they would freeze. Maybe that is what Tea was thinking of?
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Oct 17, 2018 23:52
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Well, this level's certainly a lot more chill. Should be a nice opportunity to cool down after Torch Man.  I'm so sorry.Tundra Man's stage is my favourite to start with, after having done a couple of playthroughs. I also don't mind not having the no-slip shoes, I can feel the difference but it's not huge, and most of the tricky parts have wind anyway so you're already slipping a bit. I also think Tundra Man is the easiest boss in this set, especially buster-only, and his weapon's really good. I really like the auto-charge power up just as a quality-of-life thing, honestly. It doesn't really change your capabilities, but it means no more tedious button-holding and also helps ensure your fully-charged shots come out as soon as possible. Some people don't like it because of the charging sound effects though, which is fair enough. One good thing is that if you buy an upgrade and don't like what it does, you can turn it off in the pause menu whenever you want, so don't hesitate to buy stuff and experiment.
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Oct 18, 2018 01:46
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I don't think Mega Man ever reached Sonic levels of people all over distancing themselves from it. For all the weird installments or experiments (and even then we never reached anything equivalent to Shadow the Hedgehog levels of dumb or that Werehog thing), they still had the Mega Man Zero and ZX games going on, and 9 and 10 followed shortly after. There was never a 10+ year period where people were wondering what the hell happened to the old style of 2-D platform style games. If anything, people have complained that these games are too samey.
Shitenshi fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Oct 18, 2018 |
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Oct 18, 2018 02:01
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What a difference in levels. Ice and Wind combos can be annoying, but outside of the nasty jump that killed them, this level seemed fairly.. fair. Still knocking it out of the park on style, too.
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Oct 18, 2018 03:57
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Good job, Sniper Joe.
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Oct 18, 2018 04:46
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BlazeEmblem posted:In the Mega Man Zero series, if you struck the tops with the ice chip equipped, they would freeze. Maybe that is what Tea was thinking of? I don't think he's ever played MM Zero. Concrete shot turns them into blocks of concrete though.
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Oct 18, 2018 13:00
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Natural 20 posted:
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Oct 18, 2018 21:28
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