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panascope posted:How’d they shrink it down to 1/100000000 size? lol
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Oct 11, 2018 01:03
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Atlas Hugged posted:Mantic actually has been pretty decent about fulfilling Kickstarter orders. They're not perfect and apparently some are handled better than others, but they're very good at communicating when there's an issue and very rarely is this issue internal. Getting product manufactured in China is a total shitshow, but the fact is that Mantic will always deliver, eventually. Vanguard is supposed to deliver early in fact. The Star Saga Second Wave is a year late and when last communication in August was that it was finally going to be coming out mid- late-September on the last day of September they announce 'Oh, by the way there was trouble with the printed materials for this so you won't get your stuff until end of October.' Warpath/Warzone was also a fulfillment poo poo show with it taking like a year and a half extra to get all of the vehicles out due to production issues and switching manufacturers two or three times. And in the case of both items that Kickstarter backers pledged for has hit retail months ahead of time of receiving it themselves.
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Oct 11, 2018 01:10
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darnon posted:The Star Saga Second Wave is a year late and when last communication in August was that it was finally going to be coming out mid- late-September on the last day of September they announce 'Oh, by the way there was trouble with the printed materials for this so you won't get your stuff until end of October.' Warpath/Firefight had serious delays, but the communication never stopped. But again, not their fault. I would much rather Mantic have a delay than receive a poorly produced product. Also, I 100% got my Asterian vehicle before it hit retail. Maybe they've had a different crew in charge of Star Saga. I wasn't in on that one so I can't speak to it. It's very unfortunate that they're having problems, but at least having only a single bungled Kickstarter is still better than basically every other company. After all, none of their Kickstarters have ever put them out of business. Black_Nexus posted:The real issue is that people get all their stuff through kickstarters for cheap, so stores have no reason to carry it Yeah, this is the actual problem. I'd be happy to keep expanding my forces organically to try out new things, but there's no scene and there's no scene because the FLGS doesn't stock them. I know I'm not the only person with models; I don't understand these people who go in on Kickstarters and just have the kits fill up their homes and never see any action. But hey some people just like collecting boxes I guess.
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Oct 11, 2018 01:34
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How are the Mantic dropships versus, say, a Valkyrie or an Arvus? Most of the reviews I’ve seen are dishonestly continuing in the fantasy that Mantic is a games company rather than a modeling company that produces 40k and AoS proxies. I legitimately don’t really get why, even. From what I’ve heard, Mantic has stepped their quality up in a big way with the re-tooling of their Not-Guard so why not just release good models and sell them to people? Why continue in the farce that people are “reading playboy for the articles”, especially when you give away your rules for free? 
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Oct 11, 2018 03:00
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Schadenboner posted:Most of the reviews I’ve seen are dishonestly continuing in the fantasy that Mantic is a games company rather than a dwarves company
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Oct 11, 2018 03:06
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Ilor posted:Which kinds of molds? Because CB doesn't do stuff in plastic. They're spin-casting metal minis from rubber molds, old-school. There's a place that does that for historical minis near here and they have literally thousands of different molds for minis in several scales crossing multiple historical eras. Why isn't SKU reduction a thing for them? SKU reduction is absolutely a thing for them. That is why they have moved to more consolidated started boxes with minis only available there and not separately, and way, way less blisters than previously. SKU reduction is a big deal for getting your stuff carried in retail stores. This was a big wall Privateer Press hit, and a reason why new games have such trouble getting traction. If I can only stock 30 different items your company produces based on the shelf space I am allocating your game, and you make 50 different things, 40 percent of your items will never sell at my store outside the odd special order. And if you release 10 more items this year I will have to liquidate other stock to make physical room (either from other game lines or yours depending on sales) or choose to only carry half your product line. If you have less SKUs, say 20, I can stock more copies of the starter kits or things that sell well. And if you add 5 more kits I can still carry your whole line without having to cut products.
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Oct 11, 2018 04:20
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Remember, everyone at one point was imitating GW and everyone pictures GW stores of the 90s with wall upon wall of boxed sets and blister packs. This all came out of the fact that these ranges have their origins in roleplaying games and you only ever have the need to buy a few models at a time. It never really made sense to sell Warhammer figures in packs of 2 or 3 but it took GW years to modernize how figures were sold. Now everyone else is just playing catch-up. I don't know that this applies to CB and Infinity since I don't think it uses units of 5-30, but other skirmish games, like Deadzone, absolutely prefer to sell things by the unit or by variety pack. This can be annoying for the consumer since it means they have to buy more models than they want or need, but it keeps it simpler for stores to stock and order. Schadenboner posted:How are the Mantic dropships versus, say, a Valkyrie or an Arvus? At the end of the day, Mantic is a company and they absolutely do not give a flying gently caress what you do with their models after you've handed over your money. However, I gather that the people who run the company are legitimately enthusiastic about designing games and even if they started off with the ethos of making cheaper Warhammer models for homebrew Warhammer, it's evolved beyond that. The fluff is getting incrementally better, the rules are legit good (except for the Dwarves getting undue favoritism), and there's enough variety in games available to attract a wide range of players who have differing budgets and desires. The big problem is that they're still just seen as the cheap knockoff GW who does everything through Kickstarter, and they don't build great relationships with brick and mortar stores so their penetration is really hit and miss. If I played nothing but Kings of War and Warpath universe games, I'd have 99% of my gaming itches scratched. But GW is still the biggest game in town and it's really, really hard to get people to try something different. Most people genuinely do not care that the rules GW write are adequate at best. The appeal is putting spacemans on the table and having a laugh with their friends. That's it. So I get that I'm the exception that wants to play a genuinely better game. The most success I've had though is with people who did GW stuff when they were younger and are coming back to miniatures later in life. They take one look at the pricetags and model counts, realize they are unlikely to do more than assemble the models, and decide that Mantic is a better fit for their needs.
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Oct 11, 2018 05:08
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Lord_Hambrose posted:SKU Reduction
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Oct 11, 2018 05:16
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Ilor posted:OK, that makes sense. I was looking at it from an internal/production perspective, but from an external/retail perspective I can absolutely see how it's an important change. Thanks for the explanation. I believe the retail side is the majority of the push behind it. Look at something like GW's SKU for DeathGuard. Everything is in a gorgeous display box, blisters are the devil, only special characters sold solo, etc.
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Oct 11, 2018 05:31
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All GW haters from the last thread please line up to kiss the ring and beg forgiveness.
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Oct 11, 2018 06:47
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Also does anyone still play Star Wars Legion or did they get sick of there only being like 4 units for two armies? How could that not be fun?!?
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Oct 11, 2018 06:48
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Hustlin Floh posted:All GW haters from the last thread please line up to kiss the ring and beg forgiveness. They definitely improved their image, they improved community outreach, and they did their best to repair a garbage product and convince people that it's actually ok. Credit where credit is due.
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Oct 11, 2018 06:51
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GW has improved but GW fans have not
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Oct 11, 2018 07:03
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Hustlin Floh posted:Also does anyone still play Star Wars Legion or did they get sick of there only being like 4 units for two armies? How could that not be fun?!?
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Oct 11, 2018 08:07
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Flipswitch posted:It's an Ffg game so it's already dead. Same as that rune wars poo poo They’ve already got four more properties lined up to replace them, staffed by as many people.
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Oct 11, 2018 08:15
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Atlas Hugged posted:Remember, everyone at one point was imitating GW and everyone pictures GW stores of the 90s with wall upon wall of boxed sets and blister packs. This all came out of the fact that these ranges have their origins in roleplaying games and you only ever have the need to buy a few models at a time. It never really made sense to sell Warhammer figures in packs of 2 or 3 but it took GW years to modernize how figures were sold. Now everyone else is just playing catch-up. With CB repacks of this year it depends, some are great value (like Zeroes, which you want a lot of in most Nomads lists), and some are just taxing - like Spetsnaz box, where only one of 3 models sees widespread play (the machinegun one) and when the old single blisters will be gone, new players will essentially pay thrice for an essential model.  And there are also repacks of good sculpt + bad old sculpt which are disappointing for people who expected a resculpt of a model. 
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Oct 11, 2018 08:53
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Hustlin Floh posted:All GW haters from the last thread please line up to kiss the ring and beg forgiveness. all companies are bad you should never be a fan of a company you weirdo
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Oct 11, 2018 09:46
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Lets get some new names in here. Relic Knights was a DoA game from Soda Pop Minis/Ninja Division. Asthetic was Animu as gently caress and fluctuated from good to terrible cringe. There's a second edition in that terrible 'we're really at fuffillment guys' phase of Kickstarter backing, as was demonstrated with models that could not be bought, and no demos at Gencon 2018. You could buy the pocket manual instead. Rules are available for free online, along with cards for each faction. The Other Side is a pending release from Wyrd; yet another Kickstarter in 'almost there!' phase. Had tournaments at Gencon 2018, demo games, and sculpts, but nothing to buy. Rules and cards have been released to backers, and there's been evidence suggesting the retail pricing will be closer to kickstarter than was originally presented. Wild West Exodus is currently the Flagship game from Warcradle Studios, which I believe is the 3rd time it's changed hands. They also own the rights to the entire Spartan Game's range, which has produced some gloriously bonkers fluff. Game is full release, sculpts are resin or plastic (hard sprues, no PP terrible plastics) and rules are free online, as are cards. They had demos and even a tournament at Gencon 2018; and you could buy things from the line! I just wish I could figure out where the hell the fluff is supposed to be stored. And since I'm still salty about it; Guild Ball is Blood Bowl if we used International football instead of American football, and everyone was some variation on human. Except for the wooden robots. And the animal pets. Also that bear. High quality sculpts, free rules online, but regularly changing team rosters and the dissolution of an entire faction makes fantasy fútbol a hard sell. Anyone else seen any heartbreakers out there?
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Oct 11, 2018 10:02
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Which faction ate it in GB? I’ve hardly followed it since Season 1, as I wasn’t to keen on buying a rulebook every year for a game I hardly got to play - we recently tried finishing a friends 3-model starter set only to find the blisters gone and he has to buy a 6-model starter.
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Oct 11, 2018 10:14
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Union is... weird now. So, they started as a merc faction that could do their own team to allow a lot of flexibility with the other teams. Then they were beaten up by the church and they can't play out of the Union, except for the ones who jumped ship, who _might_ be legal options if you're using their earlier rules? It's wonky. I suspect if you were on a team, that version is still viable; as we have seen a few jump ship (Brisket, Honor, Decimate, Minx, Hemlocke...) but it's a subject that gets confused easily.
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Oct 11, 2018 10:32
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The Other Side is apparently shipping imminently and retail preorders are ramping up ship soon as well from what I gather. I was tempted by the kickstarter but didn't go for it as it looked expensive, I didn't feel like they were offering much incentive to pay upfront rather than just wait for retail. And I'm not big on mass battle stuff these days either, I paint too drat slowly to churn out 28mm armies. Malifaux looks to be heading into Dropzone Commander territory; as soon as a new edition is announced interest in playing the current edition dries up all of a sudden, even if the new edition is still 6 months plus away. Speaking of, Hawk/TTcombat are vaguely promoting the 'Battle for Earth' combined book to expand Dropfleet and take Dropzone into 2nd edition. Only nobody can say with confidence when it is coming out so the whole scene feels like someone pressed the pause button. But there is still a slow trickle of releases like the Dreadnoughts so it's not terrible.
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Oct 11, 2018 11:07
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Zalabar posted:Anyone else seen any heartbreakers out there? Did Dust ever actually happen? That was a dramatic shitshow from the get-go.
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Oct 11, 2018 12:09
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Battlefront remains the GW of historicals Also Warlord, like a lot of GW-adjacent companies, remains stuck on "big detailed minis > gameplay" and are releasing a torpedo boat game in 1/300, when they should be doing it in 1/700. 28mm is good for RPGs and small skirmish games, like where GW started, but companies need to grow out of using it for modern large scale wargames and move to a superior 15mm, 10mm, or 6mm scale. You can still have really nice minis at that scale, but the gameplay is so much more immersive, as opposed to tanks with a firing range 3 times longer than their hull length. Hawk definitely had the right idea with DZC at 10. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 12:23 on Oct 11, 2018 |
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Oct 11, 2018 12:15
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I'm trying really hard to like Dropfleet but man do they make it tough to buy.
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Oct 11, 2018 12:27
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I think there might be a degree of perception problems with smaller scales. People tend to see 15mm/10mm/6mm as exclusively for incredibly dry, slow old-man historical games.
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Oct 11, 2018 12:27
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Ugleb posted:Malifaux looks to be heading into Dropzone Commander territory; as soon as a new edition is announced interest in playing the current edition dries up all of a sudden, even if the new edition is still 6 months plus away. Malifaux had a few things going before it that started skewing the playerbase, mostly the impression that the aesthetic was changing to a more cartoon-y, exaggerated style. There was a preview of two people dressed up in a horse costume, for instance. And the recent Nightmare set for Gencon did what MLP jokes tend to. Oh, and Nicodem's brief period as an unstoppable engine of card draw zombie fun, and Sandeep as the correct Arcanist answer to games. I think Aaron left, too.
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Oct 11, 2018 12:27
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Gyro Zeppeli posted:I think there might be a degree of perception problems with smaller scales. People tend to see 15mm/10mm/6mm as exclusively for incredibly dry, slow old-man historical games. That is a problem, i agree. 28mm is where everyone tends to start though. It's the first kind of mini you see and in vast quantities. They hold a great visual appeal and the artists they get to paint them up just make them fantastic. Once you start getting smaller, the first thing to go is detail and coming from that starting point, you tend to turn your nose up at it. Unfairly but you do. I love what the guys in charge of DZC and DFC are doing with their range and hopefully, they'll change that perception, over time.
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Oct 11, 2018 12:49
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Hustlin Floh posted:Also does anyone still play Star Wars Legion or did they get sick of there only being like 4 units for two armies? How could that not be fun?!? It's doing decently well locally, we just finished a four week league and expect to hold a tournament within the month. Having said that, I kind of wish I hadn't bothered; I like the general rules and I love the way that characters interact with their command cards, but the units themselves are just brutally tedious. They all desperately need some kind of PP/Wyrd style, 'every unit does something different and exciting' approach, and no, Nimble does not count. Also, no one has posted in the official Legion thread for literally 40+ days now. 
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Oct 11, 2018 12:56
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Gyro Zeppeli posted:incredibly dry, slow old-man historical games. Don't talk about your mother like that.
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Oct 11, 2018 13:05
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Zalabar posted:Union is... weird now. So, they started as a merc faction that could do their own team to allow a lot of flexibility with the other teams. Then they were beaten up by the church and they can't play out of the Union, except for the ones who jumped ship, who _might_ be legal options if you're using their earlier rules? It's wonky. Absolutely loved the hell out of Guild Ball and tried to keep the flame alive here after the one store that stocked it/ran events shuttered. Then all this poo poo happened and it was a struggle to keep up, tradgame companies really have a problem with sacrificing fluff legibility and gamefeel to the almighty metaplot. (Funnily enough, that was something GW handled pretty well with the big fluff shift in 40k. Buncha people died in Gathering Storm/Warzone Fenris but they're still in the most current codexes, freely able to be used). Really feel like the church should have been made into its own team, with characters jumping ship to them or getting dual-teamed with them. Keep the Union as it was, with Rage dead if thats what they wanted to ultimately achieve.
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Oct 11, 2018 13:07
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Moola posted:all companies are bad StuG Jeebus posted:It's doing decently well locally, we just finished a four week league and expect to hold a tournament within the month. Having said that, I kind of wish I hadn't bothered; I like the general rules and I love the way that characters interact with their command cards, but the units themselves are just brutally tedious. They all desperately need some kind of PP/Wyrd style, 'every unit does something different and exciting' approach, and no, Nimble does not count.
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Oct 11, 2018 13:10
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Warhammer and 40k always included characters who had died in the editions I played. That was one thing I thought they were really smart about.
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Oct 11, 2018 13:10
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Atlas Hugged posted:Warhammer and 40k always included characters who had died in the editions I played. That was one thing I thought they were really smart about. Narratively, warp storms and other magic poo poo can explain away anything which makes it simple enough to continue any model line. I’m eagerly awaiting them re-killing Eldrad.
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Oct 11, 2018 13:19
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SteelMentor posted:Really feel like the church should have been made into its own team, with characters jumping ship to them or getting dual-teamed with them. Keep the Union as it was, with Rage dead if thats what they wanted to ultimately achieve. Ok yeah killing character models off and removing them is just lame to me.
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Oct 11, 2018 13:34
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ijyt posted:Ok yeah killing character models off and removing them is just lame to me. Eh? Everything is still playable, even the dead guys. The original Union team is still playable, you just can't mercenary them into other Guilds that have their minor Guild roster available.
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Oct 11, 2018 13:39
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LeSquide posted:Eh? Everything is still playable, even the dead guys. Theres models no longer available on the steamforged store and also I was talking in general.
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Oct 11, 2018 14:12
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I think another big draw for 28mm is that a lot of people already own tons of terrain for it. I’ve been looking to get into Chain of Command, and as much as I want to play it at a smaller scale, I don’t feel like replacing the several thousands of dollars of terrain I already have, just to swap to a more interesting scale.
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Oct 11, 2018 14:21
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Chill la Chill posted:Yeah this was a thing I saw happen at the end of the old x wing thread going into the new edition. Defend the company, everyone who didn’t like the new edition was a whiny baby. it never stops weirding me out when I see it console wars, superhero movies, you'll always find a group of people who see big corporations as their friends
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Oct 11, 2018 14:25
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Broken Record Talk posted:I think another big draw for 28mm is that a lot of people already own tons of terrain for it. I’ve been looking to get into Chain of Command, and as much as I want to play it at a smaller scale, I don’t feel like replacing the several thousands of dollars of terrain I already have, just to swap to a more interesting scale. go on...
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Oct 11, 2018 14:26
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Moola posted:go on... 
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Oct 11, 2018 14:41
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