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How many more hours to the goal area at this speed?
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Dec 22, 2018 03:33
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Welp I'm where I wanted to be, now comes the die horribly part. Bratsk orders: no change.
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Dec 22, 2018 05:36
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Okay, I've had the promised clear-out of the orders sheet so everything is now labelled with the turn and the orders. Let's try to get full updates onto the sheet now, although I appreciate it's a busy time in the Christmas run up we've also got a long turn turnaround so this is a good time to do it.
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Dec 22, 2018 13:18
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SU-27s at Dolinsk-Sokol are to remain stood down as they have been since dusk. Pilots are hopefully getting a full night of sleep. That said next round I'm going to start issuing conditionals on the phantom strike.
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Dec 22, 2018 18:26
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Yeah, I think we need to workshop up a way of actually killing some Phantoms before they fire the missiles, then if we can't do that we need to work out a way to keep our fighters alive behind the convoy so that we can shoot down as many missiles as possible. The ASM-2 isn't a particularly tough target so that might actually work out better for us than trying to muscle through a big pile of F-15s and then the F-4EJ Kai's bullshit pair of jammers.
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Dec 22, 2018 19:13
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Is it possible to get a Bear to do a sonar sweep of the area around Iturp just to see if we can detect anything waiting in ambush or isn't that possible?
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Dec 23, 2018 00:24
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The current patrol area of the Bears includes the narrows and harbour of Iturup so they'll be sniffing around there a little, but as the subs close in and we approach decision point I'll narrow down the search area until, ideally, for the last hours of the scenario we have four to six Bears just looking at Iturup.
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Dec 23, 2018 11:01
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Orders No substantial changes, return the 'used' MiG-31s and Tu-142 for rearm. All other units hold in position. Report locations of all tanker aircraft, fuel states and rearm times.
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Dec 26, 2018 17:48
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Kashalot maintains current orders.
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Dec 26, 2018 19:23
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Russia 24   This number will vary widely depending on how often the convoy needs to regroup for proper positioning. See WW2 Convoy Rules.     Both MIG flights are refueling now.   MIG's are about to land.  That's Yelizovo. Two Bears are on station, the third is RTB. The on-station birds have 6 hours till bingo fuel.  Aphid has reached the patrol area and is now... patrolling.  MIG's have finished refueling and are back on patrol.  An IL78 took off as it was assigned to the fuel mission previously. I can let it continue onto mission or retcon it back to being at Yelizovo. I cleared the others still in queue.  Fairly quiet. Aphid is on patrol, Bears are covering the straits and the island north of Iturup. Convoy is moving at 17 kts, which may vary, etc. etc. Orders by Friday!
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Dec 27, 2018 01:54
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Can we get a picture of any enemy air assets we can see right now?
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Dec 27, 2018 02:17
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TheDemon posted:Can we get a picture of any enemy air assets we can see right now? Right now it's a single AEW over northeast Hokkaido.
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Dec 27, 2018 03:14
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Bratsk orders: Reduce patrol speed to 2kts if that's possible.
aphid_licker fucked around with this message at 10:00 on Dec 27, 2018 |
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Dec 27, 2018 05:28
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Since Russia has seen fit not to give the SU-27SM refueling probes, I can't really give any fancy contingent orders, I have 1.5h flight time if I'm on patrol with no chance of refueling so I can't launch early. So I won't have a battleplan until we detect the phantoms. SU-27 Orders: Sit tight, and please break for orders if we detect the F-4 Strike.
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Dec 28, 2018 07:37
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Russia 25 Lol.  Not much to change. Aphid is dropping down to 2 knots in his patrol area.  The only aircraft visible is the E-767 which is hanging over NE Hokkaido.  There's the details on Dandy's Helix.  Satellite passes show conflicting location on the 767. It's over northernish Hokkaido but there's not a very good fix.  Convoy is 93nm to Aphid. Beyond that it's another 30nm to Iturup. Both bears are 4 hrs to Bingo fuel. Habeas is 5 knots, max depth, and crawling. Trigger is -1050 ft and 35 kts. The Nurlat is like Thomas the Train. Chuffing along. Slowly.    Those are the current fuelers. The MIg's are going for gas. Alot. Probably every hour and a half. Orders by Sunday please!
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Dec 29, 2018 01:27
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I'd strongly recommend a bear patrol directly in front of the convoy, perhaps also to the forward sides. They will have a fix on it with the E-767 by now and that means any subs in the area are going to converge. We need direct cover starting now until the objective. e: ALSO the convoy is starting to outrun our CAP location. Need to seriously consider shifting it along with the AEW.
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Dec 29, 2018 02:05
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Where the gently caress is everyone. If I'm still alive when the convoy gets into range I'll turn on active or death blossom some BOL torps or something. e: Yooper the turn banner images have been amazing. aphid_licker fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Dec 29, 2018 |
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Dec 29, 2018 03:31
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Habeas if you're going to go slowly (and you are in perfect position to screen the convoy for this turn), I would suggest to immediately move to Just Above The Layer to maximize chances we find something along your route. Dandy, I already got this to you in Discord, but your helicopter has a 4h endurance time. You can likely launch it any time from now until the end of the scenario and it will be relevant. I would recommend ordering it up either this turn or at the start of next, keep in mind there's going to be an air battle and we're going to lose and everything up is going to die, so there's a deadline. SU-27s repeat last orders: No missions but request that upon detection of F-4s we pause for orders. TheDemon fucked around with this message at 06:44 on Dec 29, 2018 |
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Dec 29, 2018 06:39
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Yeli Air Group Orders Launch everything. Literally everything. Anything that is rearming should receive launch orders and missions so that it departs the second that it's ready. Move the currently up A-50 to directly above the convoy, with any and all MiG-31s on AAW Patrol around it and all tankers on a refuelling line slightly in front of it. Place the second A-50 100nmi behind the convoy and keep the radar off until enemy missiles of any type are spotted.  The current Tu-142s are to move to patrol area Orange. The next two Tu-142s up are to move to patrol area Green. Any subsequent Tu-142s are to move to patrol area Pink. Drop one torpedo from each aircraft in their patrol area every half an hour. All aircraft, once airborne, are to be rebased to Iturup to extend their loiter time. Engagement rules are Winchester++, come back with your shield or on it. Aircraft are to use all of their gun ammunition and then to be manually ordered to stay in the fight and attempt to soak missiles. All orders to do with withdrawal are cancelled. Advisories I'm pretty sure they're going to come for us the turn after next, spotting us in this next turn, but we have to be prepared for them coming this turn thanks to a lucky spot or some well judged conditional orders. We want to get the heli up immediately this turn before we're spotted so that it's not immediately obvious which of our ships is the Stereguschy. We also want to rearrange our escorts so that we have maximum protection from the South South East, they don't really have enough range to get fancy with us here and if they come from the ESE they'll run smack into the SA-20. EMCON is an interesting question, ideally we don't want them to know which of our ships are escorts and which are ferries before they launch their strike, but we need to have all escort radars going a good fifteen seconds before they need to shoot anything. Habeas, time to sober Soda Popinski up. I don't know how best to commit him but I'd rather he had conditional orders to enter the fray. All submariners, I want a full volley of rocket torpedoes into the Eagleswarm to split their targeting. Don't worry about actually reaching the Eagles with the rockets, just set them to Bearing Only and drop them into the sea 60nmi from them or something. Close enough for them to shoot at. Dandy, the Stereguschy can do the same with its Kh-35s but you'll need to time the firing for more like 100nmi away because your missiles are slow as hell. FrangibleCover fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Dec 30, 2018 |
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Dec 29, 2018 16:36
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EMCOM for the ships should definitely be prepared to go hot if we have missiles incoming, we have a good OECM on the Stereguschy and the corvette radars are quite good too. The OECM will give away which ship is the frigate but we're better off to use it than to not. Frang once all your A-50s are airborne you want to spread them out so we can't lose them all at once. Make sure you have a bear (or more) patrolling on the pacific side of Urup (the island before Iturup) as that is the route the convoy is going to pass, in addition to the straits before Iturup. I think you will get more efficient patrols if you segment off your areas into individual or paired patrol boxes, and make sure to exclude the landmass. If you saw the buoy distribution in Discord you'll note that your bears spend as much time overflying Urup as they do actually patrolling.
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Dec 29, 2018 21:07
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TheDemon posted:EMCOM for the ships should definitely be prepared to go hot if we have missiles incoming, we have a good OECM on the Stereguschy and the corvette radars are quite good too. The OECM will give away which ship is the frigate but we're better off to use it than to not. Yeah, once the fight actually starts we should light everything up. I'm just worried about lighting up too early and allowing the Japanese players to plot a course around our defences or concentrate the initial fire on our point defence ships. A more detailed map will come tomorrow for the Bear patrol zones, I've also remembered to put down where I want the other A-50 to go again.
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Dec 29, 2018 21:27
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I'm going to prepare the Helix for takeoff and have it do so next turn. In the event of incoming anti ship missiles I would like to do as suggested, and have the ships go bright and loud immediately. Until that time they are to maintain current EMCON. The convoy and escorts are to continue under a route that will maximize the cover from the S-300 battery.
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Dec 31, 2018 00:28
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Russia 26  'ere we go! Yelizovo is to launch basically everything. Existing birds will re-route over the convoy. 2nd AEW to hold 100 nm back. I've got all of these missions relative to the convoy so everything should follow. Also going to be dropping torpedos every 30 minutes in the patrol area. It's roughly 4-8 hours till the convoy makes the current waypoint.   First torpedo is out at 0611.  2nd torpedo at 0616.  Bogey detected south of Iturup. 275 kts, 10,000 ft. The 767 is about 50 nm west of it.  Both bears are in the straits. Torpedos have come up dry.  And then one of the torpedos detonates?  The unknown bogey is an Orion.  Plane train from Yelizovo.  The aircraft have all shifted and are in patrol routes. To the north the reinforcement wing is almost in place. The 2nd torpedo launch occured without issue. *But slightly late. Orders by Tuesday! Depending on what happens we may drop to 30 minute turns in the near future.
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Dec 31, 2018 03:07
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Well, they've got us bang to rights. Depending on exact timings they might even get two strikes off, in which case we lose. Let's see how it goes though. I think I might try sacrificing an A-50 on a run towards Chitose to give us maximum early warning.
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Dec 31, 2018 03:27
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3 hours ago we had 5-6 hours to arrival. They only have time for one strike. Although, their P-3s also carry AShMs, and as you can see there's one right out there in front. Don't sacrifice an A-50 just get everything pushed up far enough.
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Dec 31, 2018 03:31
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https://wiki.baloogancampaign.com/index.php/DataAircraft?ID=351 The lowdown: 4x 35nm ASM-1C Anti-Ship Missiles 100 passive buoys 40 active buoys 8x 4nm torpedoes 200nm surface search radar 30nm infrared 500nm ESM MAD Consider any areas under the P-3 to be swarming with active sonobuoys - avoid for all subs. Don't overly worry unless you're pretty close underneath, 5-10nm should be a safe distance. Air commanders consider the P-3 a secondary target after the F-4s.
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Dec 31, 2018 03:50
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A2A Strategy We expect the enemy to be counting on their F-4 Phantom strike, possibly accompanied by harpoons from their remaining submarines and possibly with trailing P-3C Orions. In order to execute this strike they will have to clear the skies. We expect this to be an all-in commitment, the success of which will be determined by how many F-15 Eagles they have to oppose our three SU-27 Flankers and eight MIG-31 Foxhounds. They can either attempt to sweep the skies first, then send in the phantoms, which is a slightly riskier plan but guarantees a good strike, or they can attempt to fly just ahead of the phantoms and send in the strike as they push us off, which likely means they'll get missiles off but is much messier. I propose this general plan: 1. Get an eagle count. This is crucial to determine exact WRA, and exactly how bad poo poo we are in. We think we can take 6 eagles, with an increasing degree of mess and uncertainty up to about 10-12+ eagles where we probably don't stand a chance, but nevertheless we need to put forth our best plan to defend the convoy. This isn't our first "hopeless" air battle this campaign. 2. Determine which of the two possible tactics the Japanese are on: are they going to clear the air first, then launch the strike, or are they going to try to shoot our fighters down as the phantom strike bears down? 3A. If there's eagles up but no phantoms our only option is to shoot them all down while preserving something to engage the phantoms. A1 - The foxhounds and support assets (A-50, fuel planes, 2 bears) withdraw at military speed as the eagles enter ~100nm, in a direction that places Iturup's air defenses between them and the eagles. As the battle develops maneuver so that the eagles do not enter engagement range of foxhounds and towards the convoy if possible. Absolutely do not allow to go offensive. A2 - As the eagles approach within ~60nm of the Iturup LZ we start BOLing loose missiles and rocket torps into them, hopefully to get them to waste missiles. A3 - Launch SU-27s and hit the eagles from the side, missions/WRA/doctrine to be determined by eagle count. Our Flankers are not expected to return. A4 - Cleanup with foxhounds if there are any eagles left. A5 - Engage the phantoms and orions with foxhounds/fulcrum as they show up. 3B. If there's both eagles and phantoms up our strategy should attempt to tie up the eagles, then put a flight into the phantoms while that's ongoing. B1 - The foxhounds and support assets split into two groups as the eagles enter ~100nm and withdraw in multiple directions, away from Dolinsk-Sokol - propose both north and east. B2 - As the enemy closes towards the Iturup LZ we start BOLing missiles and rocket torps into them, hopefully to get the eagles to waste missiles. B3 - If the eagles were drawn off by the foxhounds, SU-27s launch south or southwest and burn hard for the phantoms in a way that keeps them out of eagle range while foxhounds are committed to tie up the eagles for as long as possible. If the eagles stick close, SU-27s burn hard for the eagles, missions/WRA/doctrine to be determined by eagle count, and the foxhounds are ordered into the phantoms at max speed once the eagles are engaged by the flankers. B4 - Whichever group didn't engage the eagles, plus our last MiG, engages the phantoms. 4. We have another 4 (?) foxhounds readying, possibly less due to damage, launch them as soon as ready and salvage the situation if possible. If it's A, the hard part is all hard math - can we kill them before they can kill us. If it's B, the hard part is managing ranges - can we meaningfully engage the phantoms before they enter their 75nm missile range. We may have to move our patrols forward in order to pull this off. I'll work on details later but thoughts on the general battle plan? TheDemon fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Dec 31, 2018 |
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Dec 31, 2018 05:03
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Sounds good to me. Yooper, can we be assured of getting a pause to plan when we identify the enemy raid?
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Dec 31, 2018 13:35
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FrangibleCover posted:Sounds good to me. Yooper, can we be assured of getting a pause to plan when we identify the enemy raid? Once either side goes offensive/raid detected we'll go down to 30 minute turns. Depending on what's happening we may go to even shorter turns. To prevent issues I'm not going to micromanage combat aircraft. This holds for both sides. There's going to be too much going on for me to control everything on both sides and not gently caress it up.
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Dec 31, 2018 13:54
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Aye, well, that's probably the end for us then if we can't manually put the Foxhounds around the side. I wonder how trying to just shoot the missiles down with my Foxhounds would go.
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Dec 31, 2018 14:48
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FrangibleCover posted:Aye, well, that's probably the end for us then if we can't manually put the Foxhounds around the side. I wonder how trying to just shoot the missiles down with my Foxhounds would go. I believe only your heaters can target low enough to kill the ASM's and Harpoons. I'll have to check once I get home. ASM's-Harpoons are 30 ft ASL
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Dec 31, 2018 15:36
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FrangibleCover posted:Aye, well, that's probably the end for us then if we can't manually put the Foxhounds around the side. I wonder how trying to just shoot the missiles down with my Foxhounds would go. It doesn't go because you will get knocked down by the eagles. It's just another variation on "take eagles head on" that we've proved doesn't work over and over. Missile-shooting is only worth exploring if by the time we get the eagles out of the way we are too late to stop the phantoms from launching. e: And in those terms, the only weapons we have that can reliably engage 30ft missiles are our heaters, Adder B doesn't even. TheDemon fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Dec 31, 2018 |
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Dec 31, 2018 20:45
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Theater map as requested.
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Dec 31, 2018 21:55
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IMMEDIATE ORDERS for sign-off with all airbase commanders. As per the lengthy discussions on Discord. That means I need at least HabeasDorkus to sign off as theatre commander, or both Habeas and Frang. Also Frang I haven't done anything with your bears you'll need orders for them. REBASE all airborne assets to Iturup if not done already. Standing Orders: MANUALLY set all contacts originating from Japanese airspace as hostile as they appear. 1 MIG-29 "Soda Popinski" launch immediately with AAW Patrol mission including P-3 and E-767, mission box should include both targets plus a margin and edges fixed relative to targets (west edge points relative to E-767, east edge points relative to P-3), Winchester guns allowed, EMCON ACTIVE, WRA 2rnds all, if mission completes or if RTB instead add to foxhound patrol area below 8 airborne foxhounds + all readying foxhounds at Yeli to move to patrol area indicated on the map below, engagement outside this area is FORBIDDEN for now - Transit Throttle: Cruise - Fuel State RTB: No, units do not RTB - Weapon State, Pre-Planned: Winchester: Allow guns. - Weapon State RTB: No, units do not RTB Add all readying foxhounds at Yeli to the patrol, that way they'll be launched as they become ready (approx 0.5-1h?). Rebase them to Iturup once launched. Forward A-50 Mainstay and 2 forward refueling aircraft to move to point 50nm east from the north boundary of the foxhound patrol area, see map. As the fuel aircraft dry swap in a fuller tanker from the other support mission. - Transit Throttle: Military Second A-50 Mainstay and other refueling aircraft to be stationed at point indicated NE of Iturup / N of Urup, EMCON Active, withdraw NW at MILITARY if eagles come within 100nm. - Transit Throttle: Military  (ignore my points just use the ms paint boxes) CONDITIONALS: [1] IF eagles are detected flying towards our foxhounds, when the frontmost eagle is 100nm from the patrol area, make the point boundaries of the patrol area and the support point FIXED RELATIVE TO the rearmost eagle flying towards our foxhounds, and change the AAW mission to "Transit Throttle: MILITARY". If eagles go afterburner, change it to "Transit Throttle: Afterburner". IF we get eagles before our aircraft reach the patrol area still fix the patrol area to the eagles at 100nm, if they're detected too close move the points east first before fixing so that the area is 100nm from them. [2] IF the points move due to eagle movement/detection, launch the SU-27s with the following mission. IF nothing causes the points to move launch upon detection of the phantoms. AAW Patrol - 3x SU-27 - Area should encompass all detected eagles - Flight Size: SINGLE AIRCRAFT - Transit Speed: Military Doctrine: - Engage Ambiguous Targets: Optimistic - Fuel State RTB: No, units do not RTB - Weapon State, Pre-Planned: Winchester: Allow guns. - Weapon State RTB: No, units do not RTB WRA: - AA-12 Adder B: --- 4th Gen: Divide 18 by number of eagles detected, round down (for example, 8 eagles would be 18/3=2 rnds), to a max of 3 rnds --- 3rd Gen: 1 rnd --- Air Contact - Unknown Type: use the same setting as 4th gen --- Aircraft - Unspecified: 1 rnd --- All other: Do not use weapon. - AA-11 Archer: --- All aircraft: 2 rnds --- All guided weapon: 1 rnd EMCON: - Passive until within 80nm or if we lose AEW. Within 80nm or if we lose AEW, active. [3] Once SU-27 are both shooting and being shot at all Foxhounds including readying assets at Yeli are to engage AAW Patrol encompassing all enemy air assets. Doctrine: - Transit Throttle: Afterburner - Engage Ambiguous Targets: Optimistic - Fuel State RTB: No, units do not RTB - Weapon State, Pre-Planned: Winchester: Allow guns. - Weapon State RTB: No, units do not RTB WRA: - AA-9 Amos: --- 4th Gen: If there are phantoms in the air, Do not use weapon. If there are no phantoms, "Use all weapons" --- 3rd Gen: Divide number of remaining AA-9s by number of phantoms, round down (example: 8 phantoms, 6 foxhounds with 4 each is 24/8 = 3 rnds) --- Aircraft - Unspecified: 2 rnds --- Air Contact - Unknown Type: use the same setting as 3rd gen --- All other aircraft: Do not use weapon --- All guided weapon: Do not use weapon - AA-11 Archer: --- 4th Gen: If there are phantoms in the air, Do not use weapon. If there are no phantoms, 2 rnds. --- 3rd Gen: 2 rnds --- Aircraft - Unspecified: 2 rnds --- All other aircraft: Do not use weapon --- All guided weapon: 1 rnd EMCON: - Active [4] In the unlikely scenario that the phantoms go up with no eagles just slam them with a foxhound patrol mission as per [3] and launch the SU-27s boxing all enemy aircraft as per [2]. TheDemon fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Jan 2, 2019 |
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Jan 1, 2019 00:08
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You have my new years eve scrawl of approval.
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Jan 1, 2019 01:39
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Official signoff, Bear orders to follow tomorrow. Or today technically, whatever.
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Jan 1, 2019 02:01
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Bookkeeping: Dandy - EMCON activation if you see missiles, potential helicopter use, determine if you want to BOL harpoonskis into the eagles although chances are good they won't enter range THP - determine how to approach iturup, determine if you want to BOL torps into the eagles which could help a bit or could expose your position Habeas - the convoy will be passing you soon, course/speed adjustments pretty much. will need to start considering active pings idk Aphid - you're good actually
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Jan 1, 2019 06:01
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Bratsk ordersaphid_licker posted:
Alright, these are my previous orders, minus the now-irrelevant bits about moving to where I am now, plus conditionals for Operation Oh God Phantoms Everywhere (point 3).
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Jan 1, 2019 14:22
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Bear Orders All aircraft except Tu-142s to follow orders as laid out by TheDemon Tu-142s to continue on current tasking. If the timed torpedo attack will result in dropping a torpedo within 10nmi of a friendly submarine that doesn't belong to Aphid, don't drop that torpedo. In the event of Conditional [1] occurring, withdraw all Tu-142s to the second support point and cease torpedo attacks. If Harpoons are spotted, or if any missiles are identified coming from a direction that Phantoms have not been detected in then two Tu-142s are to be detached to hunt in a 10x10nmi box around the origin of the missiles if they were spotted when launched or else a 20x60nmi rectangle on a reverse bearing from the point where the missile was detected. E: Changed per advice FrangibleCover fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Jan 1, 2019 |
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Jan 1, 2019 15:24
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| # ? May 9, 2024 08:57 |
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FrangibleCover posted:Tu-142s to continue on current tasking. If the timed torpedo attack will result in dropping a torpedo within 10nmi of a friendly submarine, don't drop that torpedo.
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Jan 1, 2019 16:35
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