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So not being too cognizant of sub warfare, is there an advantage depending on how you are vis a vis the layer, like below or above? In aerial combat the higher attacker has the advantage, but how does that translate to subs, if at all? I ask because it seems like the Russians are all above the layer while most of Japan's subs are below. Also that SEAD mission was glorious, and so deliciously Russian
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Oct 21, 2018 02:06
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I dunno, suicide planes seems more like a Japanese thing to me. 
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Oct 21, 2018 02:08
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Vodka Drunkski RE: Submarines and the layer: After playing CMANO for awhile I looked around a bunch for some good tactics and I couldn't really find anything. In general, if you are on the other side of the layer from someone, you will have a harder time hearing them. Many subs and ships have towed sonars that can drop below the layer even when they are above. There are some more complicated effects as well. Above the layer can be kind of a sound channel where sound can travel, and there are weird sound effects below the layer where sound can go deep, travel a long distance, and come back up (convergence zones). This can result in sound traveling very long distances, but only if you are in the right zone to hear it. You can also travel at decent speed deep without cavitating, which lets you cover ground in relative silence. How this translates to actual tactics I don't really know. The CMANO sub missions I have played in their Northern Inferno DLC basically made it seem totally random if I was detected by surface forces or not. In most sub games I have played you, as the US, had a technological advantage, and that ended up being more important. I would love to learn some real-world tactics, but maybe they are classified or something.
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Oct 21, 2018 02:38
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The layer is definitely a thing, but if you're going fast, or changing depths alot, then a careful sub will hear you. You can also drop to a different depth and try to lose a pursuer. At shallow depths you cavitate at a lower speed where at full depth you can go full out without cavitating. It's one aspect of CMANO I know the least about, but find it to be very interesting if difficult to understand. Some scenarios can be frustrating when it's just "suddenly dead".
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Oct 21, 2018 02:55
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 Japanese reaction.
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Oct 21, 2018 20:18
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That is actually a perfectly rational response. 
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Oct 21, 2018 23:15
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If this wasn't blaring over the comnet when that MiG was making its gun-run, the Russians shouldn't even consider getting that pilot back/giving them a funeral.
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Oct 22, 2018 03:01
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Let`s take a look at the real life locations of today`s attacks. 1. The 28th Aircraft Control and Warning Squadron in Abashiri 航空自衛隊 第28警戒隊 This Radar site is located on a mountain with only forest and the base support buildings surrounding it.  2. The 18th Aircraft Control and Warning Squadron in Wakkani 航空自衛隊第18警戒隊 A costal site. Many homes would be exposed to any rounds that may have missed their target.  3. The 26th Aircraft Control and Warning Squadron in Nemuro 航空自衛隊第26警戒隊 While the main radar is farther away from any homes there is still risk to civilians.  Only the radar in Abashiri is located in a remote location. The chance of collateral damage at the other two sites is higher as there are private home and business surrounding the base. The Japanese Government could easily use this provocative action as cover/justification for any counter attacks they have planned. Any base personal or civilians that may have been killed could help drum up international support. ScottyJSno fucked around with this message at 11:17 on Oct 26, 2018 |
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Oct 26, 2018 08:19
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Russians should go balls-out on Japan's radar control planes. If they lose both those and the ground based radar, then they've lost the fight.
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Oct 26, 2018 14:24
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The Sukhois of Dreamland
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Oct 26, 2018 18:37
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pthighs posted:The Sukhois of Dreamland  I'm personally wondering if it's even possible for the Russians to throw so many aircraft at the Japanese that some of them make it past the AAM-4s. The downside being, of course, that once the Russians lose air superiority the Japanese can surge their P-3s and F-4s unopposed, and that'll be the ballgame. Relatedly though, I'm deeply unsure about the Japanese plan to use their SAG in what's essentially a suicide run. Once the ships start shooting the Russians will just launch a dozen supersonic vampires and that'll be that. Not only that, but the SAG contains a sizable portion of the Japanese side's Harpoons, and probably shouldn't just be cavalierly thrown away.
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Oct 26, 2018 20:05
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This had some really great dramatic moments right from the start! Yooper, you may want to throw a link back to this thread at the top of the threads for each side. I haven't quite caught up on the Strike Commander thread and stumbled into the Japanese side first. Also, anyone who showed up new to this thread and wants to see how CMANO runs in real-time (and also read a fantastic LP), check out some of the videos in Yooper's Strike Command LP. It'll give a good feel for the game (and also why most of it can be condensed down to screenshots).
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Oct 29, 2018 13:52
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Thanks for the reminder! I've added the links to the OP.
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Oct 29, 2018 14:38
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I suppose one thing that surprises me the most is that no one in the threads has quoted 'Hunt for Red October' so far given ASW and the Russian Navy.
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Oct 30, 2018 10:25
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A lot of this is going to come down to whether or not that Japanese sub can get a firing solution.
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Oct 30, 2018 16:14
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Just found this in PYF and found it quite apropos:
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Oct 30, 2018 16:33
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Russians just got a bloody nose.
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Oct 31, 2018 00:19
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Okay so first, what in the world were the Russians hoping to do by sprinting a goddamned Kilo?  That is precisely the opposite of how you're supposed to use them.Anyway, it sure looks like the Japanese should have two more possible submarine kills coming up, on top of that MiG-29 they just splashed. If one of them happens to be that Yasen, that would be a major coup for the Japanese side.
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Oct 31, 2018 00:47
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It was a pretty tense round. I don't run with Gods Eye View on (can see both sides) so unless it's a zone I'm zoomed in on I get genuinely surprised. I did not expect the Kilo right next to Oscar. It running out of batteries happened much quicker than I expected too.
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Oct 31, 2018 01:29
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So is it possible for the Japanese Self Defense Fleet to get a firing solution on the Akula and if they can are they at a good angle to do so? Also I imagine that somewhere on Okinawa or wherever the nearest Pacific SOSUS receiving station is from the Cold War a bunch of USN crewmen are watching with beer and popcorn. wedgekree fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Oct 31, 2018 |
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Oct 31, 2018 02:35
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wedgekree posted:Also I imagine that somewhere on Okinawa or wherever the nearest Pacific SOSUS receiving station is from the Cold War a bunch of USN crewmen are watching with beer and popcorn. Further to the south in Japan there's probably a docked Aegis cruiser with a betting pool in the CIC.
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Oct 31, 2018 02:47
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Cythereal posted:Further to the south in Japan there's probably a docked Aegis cruiser with a betting pool in the CIC. That probaly has better radar/sonar coverage of the engagement than both sides have of their own deployments. But with worse alcohol.
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Oct 31, 2018 02:50
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wedgekree posted:That probaly has better radar/sonar coverage of the engagement than both sides have of their own deployments. But with worse alcohol. Assuming they have satellite uplinks? Absolutely.
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Oct 31, 2018 04:27
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Zeroisanumber posted:Assuming they have satellite uplinks? Absolutely. This is the Americans we're talking about. I'm presuming the CIA has satellites purely devoted to downloading anime.
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Oct 31, 2018 05:25
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I’m not quite skilled enough to know for absolutely certain, but it seems like the Russians are handling the latest revelations in the submarine clash somewhat more proactively than the Japanese. Opinions?
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Nov 2, 2018 13:00
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Agreed. The Russians got a shock and are reacting well to it. Japan may get lucky and kill the Yasen but they do need to be lucky, and not fall for the torpedo gambit the Russians are setting up.
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Nov 2, 2018 13:27
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I must have missed something reading the Russian thread because I still don't know why they sent a sub at cavitation speed.
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Nov 2, 2018 17:36
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CannonFodder posted:I must have missed something reading the Russian thread because I still don't know why they sent a sub at cavitation speed. The commander of the sub had the idea of cavitating to draw attention and then going silent and changing course, but I think he severely underestimated the "if they can find you you're dead" aspect of modern submarine warfare.
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Nov 2, 2018 21:24
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They seem to be trying it again with this bearing shot, presumably hoping a Japanese sub will break stealth to evade and then their other ASW assets can take it out.
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Nov 2, 2018 22:40
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The Russians are adapting and changing their plan in response to things. It remains to be seen if the Japanese will - they got a couple of breaks and took advantage of some bad Russian tactics. Now we see if the tide will turn and how it goes!
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Nov 3, 2018 04:44
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RIP, Yasen. The Japanese have plenty of reason to be happy about that lucky break. The bearing shot might have worked better if people had time to respond..
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Nov 3, 2018 04:46
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Thaaaat was a nasty hit for the Russians. Two turns of unlucky breaks and they're a lot more vulnerable.
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Nov 3, 2018 05:15
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I think the Russian players were being too clever for their own good. Or just not understanding mechanics too well.
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Nov 3, 2018 05:16
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They would have had a guaranteed kill on that SSK had they fired more torpedos. The Yasen would have still died though. The biggest mistake the Russians made was going fast. Anything over 5 knots is detectable and over 8 knots is asking for trouble. The only time you can get away with it is the new USN subs, and even then it's risky. If they can leverage the Bears they'll have a big advantage.
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Nov 3, 2018 12:39
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Hang in there, Yooper.
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Nov 5, 2018 03:58
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I think your avatar is some sort of cursed idol, like the Brady Bunch Hawai'ian special.
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Nov 5, 2018 20:19
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pthighs posted:I think your avatar is some sort of cursed idol, like the Brady Bunch Hawai'ian special. https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-first-jack-o-lanterns-were-monstrosities-carved-fro-1644966990
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Nov 5, 2018 21:27
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Oh my god that torpedo kill was some good poo poo. 
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Nov 5, 2018 21:32
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I was worried about Russian thread morale, but they seem to be holding up.
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Nov 5, 2018 22:37
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Same. But they had a big coup by knocking out the radars on Turn 1 so I don't feel too bad.
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Nov 5, 2018 22:41
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