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wedgekree posted:Also I imagine that somewhere on Okinawa or wherever the nearest Pacific SOSUS receiving station is from the Cold War a bunch of USN crewmen are watching with beer and popcorn. Further to the south in Japan there's probably a docked Aegis cruiser with a betting pool in the CIC.
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Oct 31, 2018 02:47
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I think the Russian players were being too clever for their own good. Or just not understanding mechanics too well.
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Nov 3, 2018 05:16
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Though their number of subs is diminishing steadily...
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Nov 15, 2018 04:16
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I'm not familiar with this game so I can't speak for that, but it might be interesting to drop an uninvolved third party into the war zone without telling anyone - say a civilian ship accidentally blundering into the area or a third nation's submarine gathering intel, to add some potential for things getting ugly in the fog of war and potentially setting up another scenario.
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Nov 16, 2018 17:21
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Notahippie posted:Oh, good idea. A Chinese seems like the best bet in this scenario - they would be very interested in what's going on, but not likely to share information that they had a sub in the area with either country involved. I like this idea. Introduce, say, a Song or Han snooping in the middle of the battle that both sides detect simultaneously. I don't think a Chinese submarine gathering intelligence would occur to the players on either side as a possibility, and regardless of the outcome of this scenario if someone sinks a modern Chinese fast attack sub during all this fracas it could make things very interesting indeed.
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Nov 16, 2018 21:00
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Hav posted:You’ve got some basic areas in your sea. Near the surface, the water is warmed by the sun and isn’t under as much pressure. Around two hundred feet down, light ceases to warm it, and it starts to get colder and more pressurized. Adding to this, there are ways to detect submarines besides sound. What let the Bear pick up and kill the latest sub was the Bear's MAD - Magnetic Anomaly Detector. The technology is complicated and MADs have a lot of uses in civilian geological and oceanographic research, but for these purposes, at heart it boils down to putting a giant magnet in a plane and waiting for it to detect something big and ferrous underneath the plane - like a submarine.
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Nov 27, 2018 01:42
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Yooper posted:I've read of some ambiguity in the depth of the MAD sensors. Some sources claim 1500 ft, others 1,000, and one limited it to 200 ft. So I'm not sure what is valid so I'm deferring to the game to know more than I. I don't think the Bears passive buoys can pick up the Japanese subs unless they are cavitating. I think the MAD depth is mostly due to the real stats being classified for obvious reasons.
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Nov 30, 2018 00:23
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Oh dear. Looks to me like the Russians have a golden opportunity to smash the Japanese fleet and they sure intend to take it.
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Nov 30, 2018 06:18
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Notahippie posted:There's a definite chance that the JSDF is about to get proper hosed and it'll be interesting to see whether they get out of it or not. They did not. Eight missiles per ship was probably overkill, but that's almost three hundred more dead Japanese sailors in very visible fashion - not like their submarines steadily disappearing. The American aegis cruiser inevitably down around Yokohama is probably reading that early chapter of Red Storm Rising over the intercom.
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Dec 2, 2018 04:03
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wedgekree posted:I think that threads can be locked to folks? I think the Russian players have been better at figuring out what works and what doesn't. They made some mistakes that cost them unnecessary losses, but they've learned from those mistakes. The Japanese are just kinda plowing ahead with their previous plan and shrugging at their losses, including their whole surface force.
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Dec 3, 2018 05:52
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ScottyJSno posted:What else could the surface force have done? In my mind the Japanese surface forced was doomed to die or do nothing. The Japanese didn't/don't have the air power to properly screen them. After that air engagement, I'd have held the surface force back as a reserve or into an ambush position against possible convoy routes with shelter from the terrain. Russia took numerically more losses in the air exchange, but they had the planes to lose and it didn't seriously hurt their strategy. The Japanese really couldn't afford the air losses they suffered, and I don't think the Japanese players appreciate how that damaged their grasp of the battlefield. The Japanese players just seem concerned with trying to kill whatever they can see while the Russians have a plan in mind.
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Dec 3, 2018 21:44
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The Japanese have figured out the Russian plan. Going to be interesting to see if the Russians can pull this off.
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Dec 17, 2018 02:31
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This was always going to be a tough mission for the Russians. I don't think there was ever a realistic chance of getting the convoy in undetected, so unless the Russians held back the convoy and dedicated themselves to defanging Japan first, a pucker moment like this was bound to happen.
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Jan 1, 2019 01:59
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A nail-biter finish. Great work to everyone on both sides, and especially to Yooper for doing all this!
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Jan 16, 2019 02:34
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habeasdorkus posted:I am 100% up for a goon v goon rematch in a Yooper generated scenario where we can get up to hijinks like actual maskirovka and using what's actually on the field of play (like, the planes at Iturup were located at the old mid-cold war airbase instead of the much newer one, and I didn't have the option of starting two of my MiGs at the Kunashir airport for an even faster attack on the eastern radar stations. One of my suggestions earlier in the thread was both of y'all picking up a Chinese SSN lurking in the area without being told there's someone else in the area and waiting to see if either side would attack the Chinese. Still, I don't blame Yooper for trying to keep things simple on the first outing. I felt before and still now that this is a very rough scenario for the Russians, but it's a first stab at running a scenario like this in this format, so some jankiness is only to be expected.
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Jan 16, 2019 15:24
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Plek posted:I didn't mean to disparage anyone's decisions or imply that success was undeserved. Positioning is important; but the bears effectively mean a hint of sub is a dead sub. And that might be the point, as was said they're kind of a hard counter. I'm actually a little curious about the MAD itself now. Generally that kind of sensor would only resolve a hit close to directly above a target unless working in tandem with another, but it may be a kind of SAR or maybe its picking up the magnetic 'noise' generated by the sub's systems. Which is again kind of what I meant by bullshit - BS the same way those Indian pilots were probably thinking the Chinese late gen fighters were as they basically tore apart India's air force in Yooper's other game. I think this is more down to the balance of forces. Bears can be countered, but not by subs. Different units have different strengths and weaknesses, and they need to be used together for best effect. As an observer who was reading both threads, I thought the Russians integrated their air and naval operations much better than the Japanese. They had a coordinated plan for what they were doing, and used all of their assets towards that end bar some blatant mistakes with their subs early on. They also seemed to be a lot more willing to adapt and change things up depending on what worked and what didn't. The Japanese side, from what I read, was just plowing ahead with their plan and idea of how things would go. I think that's what made the difference more than planes or subs, the Russians were just plain better lead - and still almost lost it because of how vulnerable their objective was.
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Jan 18, 2019 20:22
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Plek posted:Oh yes, the Russians definitely seemed to have a more, uh, measured approach after their initial gun run. It looks like Japan needed to rely on it's navy to really stop the convoy judging by how many of its missiles were intercepted. Torpedos still seem to be civil shipping's bane. I'm kind of surprised there isn't a low flying torpedo drone or something in anyone's arsenal. Torpedoes are big, heavy, complicated weapons that are hard to arm and use. They're a lot more difficult to use, especially from a drone. The best bet for torpedo-armed drones are submarine drones, not aerial.
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Jan 18, 2019 20:34
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