Gynovore posted:

So the banning process isn't automatic? It has to be ratified by a majority vote of the Council of Elders or something?

Jordan7hm posted:

One of the things that you saw in the last thread was Death Ray’s argument that by failing to engage people in conversation you lose out the chance to influence them. I think we can all agree that for Death Ray and guys like that this is a bad faith argument. Engaging them gives them credibility because they are actually in the conversation. They aren’t worth engaging.

Jordan7hm posted:

That said, and this is probably bigger than comics, I really want to figure out how to engage people in real life on stuff like this. The number of intelligent and genuinely good people I know who fall for poo poo like Jordan Peterson is really disheartening. I think these people do need to be engaged, if only to point them in the direction of good arguments to the contrary.

Wanderer posted:

The good news, such as it is, is that there are no smooth media operators behind a typical -gate. Gamergate in particular did a lot of damage, but most of its leaders have either vanished into clouds of failure or are in the process of doing so, and its two primary targets, Anita Sarkeesian and Zoe Quinn, got more successful. (I'm sure they'd prefer to have attained fame some other way, of course, but I still think it's funny; an entire international social-media organization that had a major goal in getting Sarkeesian to shut up and go away actually resulted in her addressing the United Nations.)

Lunatic Sledge posted:

TL;DR: some people are just ill informed and if you approach it carefully, and show them the things they haven't seen yet, there might be hope. Other people are nazis, gently caress dialogue, punch nazis. Or ban them. If people are just playing to rile up emotions or they're using poo poo to smokescreen their real intentions then they're not owed a microphone, a stage, or your time. slight edit: when I say don't have these arguments in public, I don't mean you should be afraid to just straight up disavow people regardless of time or place, I just mean if you're interested in having an actual conversation and genuinely debating the facts to try and sway them, don't let them turn it into a theatrical production. If you're just telling someone to gently caress off you can do that pretty much whenever feels right

Lunatic Sledge posted:

Pretty much this, yeah. It's hard to know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em--a lot of my family is a backwoods southern kind of lovely, and I spent many years of my life thinking I could just talk them out of it. They don't want to be talked out of it. They will not let me talk them out of it. In that situation, there is no use trying to talk someone out of it. It's needless stress and wasted effort. Some people just refuse to change, and a significant number of those people post on the internet.

Like, I get the sentiment, because it sucks to just throw your hands up and go "well I guess my mom's a loving racist forever" but you don't do yourself or anyone else any favors fighting an unwinnable battle. Save it for someone that wants to know better.

Lunatic Sledge posted:

I don't want to have to go back in time and explain to my younger self that David Duke has a god drat twitter account where he says the kind of thing you expect David Duke to say on twitter and nobody stops him. All these "ethics in _____" gimmicks are just smokescreens for old fashioned shittiness and I'm glad the comics industry is starting to call it for what it is. Too many people fell for previous -gates, nobody should be making that mistake again.

fritz posted:

I think the 'rpg horror stories' thread is long-since gassed and banned, but I think one lesson from it was maybe nobody wants to play with those jerks, but a whole lot of people do anyway.

Retro Futurist posted:

Yeah that’s my guess. This whole thing is pretty much win win for him; if he backs down, Waid once again bullied him and used his wealth and industry friends to do it, and Dickie is the brave underdog who did his best and anyways here’s the new indiegogo campaign please give Dickie more money to own the libs.

It’s possible he’s dumb enough to try and ride this out and actually does manage to ride this out long enough to ruin himself, but I’m betting that his plan was to drum up support and the success of Waid’s campaign is just going to galvanize the chuds on the other side.

rkajdi posted:

Oh yeah, he's that guy. I think he got angry at me for suggesting no platforming last time too. I forgot what his thing was, and the very odd art he just posted made my brain hurt a bit.

Skwirl posted:

I thought "trap" was slang for prostitute/hooking. Am I misremembering that amazing twitter thread that is being made into movie?

site posted:

If only they managed to actually do it

Captain Rufus posted:

Maher hates a lot of harmless stupid poo poo for idiotic reasons. And it seems things not aimed directly at adults being enjoyed by adults are one of his big rage ons. Like he seems legit mad at adults reading YA type books or anything online as its not REAL READING. Also he hates the current superhero movie trend because OMG CHILDISH. Also rages about milk but loves his weed not exactly seeing the hypocrisy there.

I listen to the podcast version of his show and he is seriously an old with many progressive views for his age. His Catholic upbringing clearly hosed him up bigtime and he bought into a lot of the late Boomer era bullshit about what adults are supposed to do as adults not seeing the disconnect with stuff he does that many folks his age would consider bad. Like most people it's clear he has WHAT I LIKE GOOD WHAT YOU LIKE BAD EVEN IF REALLY THE SAME THING.

He is no rightie by any measure outside of hard left loonie circlejerks like SA seems to be turning into. By "normal" US standards he is closer to a leftist boogeyman out to take your guns and let the browns in the nation to have gay anchor babies. (In reality he is a stereotypical liberal elitist more or less. Just one that will actually listen to other viewpoints outside of some of his stupid hang ups. And Trump tried or actually did sue him for mean words. Maher also gave a ton of money to the Obama campaign making him more politically effective than this entire forum more or less. How good that was given why the Orange Idiot is rumored to have run and if we want to count whatever 4chan did as political change through SA is a whole other thing.)

But it's not cool to rag on a dead old guy who helped create tons of stuff people love because you think adults and current culture in general should all be reading deep snooty books and watching oscarbait. Not cool at all.

Archyduke posted:

I don't know what kind of response you expect to this kind of thing, but perhaps you should reflect on every other time you've come into this thread and its predecessor, and why it plays out the same way each time.

Archyduchess posted:

X-O posted:

Even the smallest of Stan Lee’s creations will be remembered decades even after I die. Nobody will give a poo poo about anything Maher has ever done years before he’s gone. If they even care now.

Captain Rufus posted:

But I will be honest and say I came here to SA in the mid 00s because RPGnet was becoming annoyingly hard left

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

the problem is that "actually, no, queer people shouldn't be put to death" isn't what those people are hearing, because our messaging loving sucks.

the only leftists your average nerdo is likely to see outside of explicitly leftist spaces, because of the magic of algorithms and propaganda, are the legit unhinged ones saying things like "all the non-black people who died in 9/11 deserved it" and "people should be tortured to death in gulags for having TVs." because the right actively seeks that poo poo out and spams it everywhere as "proof" that the left are the real enemy, despite the nutty folks being generally a pretty tiny minority of the left. and then, because right-wingers really like masking themselves as "apolitical," social media algorithms spread that poo poo way, way wider than stuff that's explicitly noted as political content.

Viridiant posted:

I feel like ideologies like "Let the marketplace of ideas exist unrestricted" is ignoring basically the entire purpose, history and effectiveness of propaganda and advertising. Humans have become very good at marketing lies and while information becoming more accessible has changed this in some positive ways, it has also made harmful ideals easier to propagate.

A free marketplace of ideas would only be feasible in an environment where everyone was acting in good faith and that is not, has never been, and will never be the case.

Archyduchess posted:

Who is Dare and if that was a Death Ray chessmaster scheme what on earth was the point. I don't mind explaining the same thing to people ad nauseum, even if I suspect I'm rising to somebody's bait, because whatever, I'm used to it, but on his end, like, he wasn't even stirring the pot in a provocative way, he was just doing the same dance steps we've all surely seen a thousand times across the internet. Like, why bother.

Lurdiak posted:

That's a famous meme image in chan circles, it doesn't mean much other than they hang out on disgusting message boards.