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im so fuckin excited for Falintaur to show up in the anime god its so close
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Apr 12, 2024 13:13
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Teriyaki Koinku posted:I know Japan sometimes has those pop-up themed cafes, so it'd be the easiest money-maker ever to throw up a Dungeon Meshi cafe. Here is how to make treasure insects. After that it's just sugar, bit of salt and liquor and mint! Mix under heat and water and then swing it around in your local graveyard.
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Apr 13, 2024 01:05
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I just finished Vol 5 of the manga, putting me exactly one episode ahead of the anime. At what point have you consumed and incorporated enough dungeon matter that the the cleaners would just revivify you if you died on a lower level? I still refuse believe there is no Persephone or Orpheus like consequence for eating Underworld food. Senshi’s got to be like Swamp Thing on the inside. I am invested in the worldbuilding!
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Apr 13, 2024 17:17
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Marsupial Ape posted:I just finished Vol 5 of the manga, putting me exactly one episode ahead of the anime. At what point have you consumed and incorporated enough dungeon matter that the the cleaners would just revivify you if you died on a lower level? There doesn't appear to be any point at which this happens, actually. quote:I am invested in the worldbuilding! That's great! Enjoy the manga. You're in for a real treat. Then go and consume all the extras like the Adventurer's Guide and Ryoko Kui's random sketches and tweets.
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Apr 13, 2024 17:33
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Hypothetically. I’m just saying…their intestines may be lined with cleaners at this point. If large parts of the dungeon are basically coral constructs, and you can eat the ‘bricks’, then you can use dungeon-mass itself for resurrection spell stock material. The more answers I get, the more questions I have.
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Apr 13, 2024 17:42
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Marsupial Ape posted:I just finished Vol 5 of the manga, putting me exactly one episode ahead of the anime. At what point have you consumed and incorporated enough dungeon matter that the the cleaners would just revivify you if you died on a lower level? Rest assured that this question will in fact be answered, and probably not too long from where you are now either. If you can't wait, the answer is never, because digesting stuff causes it to lose whatever individual identity or nature it had before. The act of digesting Dungeon Stuff into Nutrients and Poop strips it of any magic or magical nature it might have, reducing it to normal everyday nutrients and poop, no matter what it might have been before.
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Apr 13, 2024 18:02
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Vizuyos posted:Rest assured that this question will in fact be answered, and probably not too long from where you are now either. Additionally, the only way to *go Dungeon* is to have your soul magically linked to the dungeon via ~dark arts~ like Marcelle did to Falin.
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Apr 13, 2024 18:14
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Thanks. I will read ahead and double back to your spoiler.
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Apr 13, 2024 18:16
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Everything under the spoilers should be covered by the end of Chapter 52 fyi
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Apr 13, 2024 19:38
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well, if you want to discuss the anime without spoilers i think there just might be a thread for that.
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Apr 13, 2024 21:28
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Terrifying Effigies posted:Everything under the spoilers should be covered by the end of Chapter 52 fyi Thanks. I just started volume 7. Still digesting Vol 6. Interesting how much affinity Laois has with dogs. I'm thinking specifically the leaping dog motiff often associated with Hectate. Wonder if that goes anywhere. Maizuru is a very fun expression of the swan maiden. I'm picking up what Ryoko Kui is putting, down, I think.
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Apr 13, 2024 21:35
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Marsupial Ape posted:Maizuru is a very fun expression of the swan maiden. 
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Apr 14, 2024 08:08
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Can Of Worms posted:Just realized her name is a double pun since all of Shuro's retainers use flowers as nicknames, and Maizuru's name also contains the word for crane. The "skyfish" familiar that Marcille made is an actual modern cryptid. What a loving esoteric flex. You have no idea how impressed I am, right now.
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Apr 14, 2024 16:40
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Marsupial Ape posted:The "skyfish" familiar that Marcille made is an actual modern cryptid. What a loving esoteric flex. And of course, compare that with her Couatl.
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Apr 14, 2024 16:44
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Schwarzwald posted:And of course, compare that with her Couatl. Just did. If the coutl had a pair of ram horns or bull horns, then I’d know exactly what sources Kiu may have drawn from. The coutl is, of course, a creature from New World mythology, but the winged snake has been associated with feminine divinity back into Old World Neolithic cave paintings. Horned snakes, as well, which is why I mention it. Just started the 3rd to last volume. Conjecture Senshi ends up being the final Dungeon Lord because he has no desire other than to live a simple hermetic life. He would simply go back to his basecamp and continue on for eternity as a Green Man. The Winged Lion would lose its mind.
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Apr 14, 2024 17:22
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...I meant that both her rod and her couatl were winged snakes.
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Apr 15, 2024 03:56
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Schwarzwald posted:...I meant that both her rod and her couatl were winged snakes. Exactly! Marsupial Ape fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Apr 15, 2024 |
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Apr 15, 2024 04:08
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Her rod and coatl bring all the boys to the yard.
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Apr 15, 2024 04:27
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don Jaime posted:Her rod and coatl bring all the boys to the yard. A natural ambush tactic, really. I'm all caught up. What is the group hive mind consensus on long, wikipedia link laden articles? I have things to say about emergently complex systems and paperclip apocalypses, but, unlike Laois, I know nobody really gives a poo poo. This is a really good narrative and the author obviously has a head full of esoteric bullshit and knows how to implement it. Needs more good flying ladies, though. Ninja Swan Princess doesn't count.
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Apr 15, 2024 05:05
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Marsupial Ape posted:The "skyfish" familiar that Marcille made is an actual modern cryptid. What a loving esoteric flex. IIRC Rods/Skyfish ended up catching on in japanese pop culture (if you look at that article's pop culture section you'll see that it's all japanese media, some of which being pretty mainstream), so it probably wouldn't be as deep of a cut to the pov of japanese audiences as it would western ones.
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Apr 15, 2024 05:13
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Digamma-F-Wau posted:IIRC Rods/Skyfish ended up catching on in japanese pop culture (if you look at that article's pop culture section you'll see that it's all japanese media, some of which being pretty mainstream), so it probably wouldn't be as deep of a cut to the pov of japanese audiences as it would western ones. Finger guns!
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Apr 15, 2024 05:20
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See also, the Flatwoods Monster, which probably has more notable references in Japanese pop culture than American. Japan has always loved a good monster.
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Apr 15, 2024 05:22
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Snooze Cruise posted:See also, the Flatwoods Monster, which probably has more notable references in Japanese pop culture than American. Don't you talk to me about American cryptids and UFOs. I am from west Kentucky space goblin country. My dungeon is Fresno Nightcrawlers all the way down.
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Apr 15, 2024 05:27
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ryoko kui please write a story with fresno nightcrawlers, send tweet
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Apr 15, 2024 05:29
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Snooze Cruise posted:ryoko kui please write a story with fresno nightcrawlers, send tweet I have to tell her about 1960s UFO contactee culture. She has to know.
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Apr 15, 2024 05:39
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Marsupial Ape posted:A natural ambush tactic, really. Speak! I, for one, give a poo poo about emergent complex systems and the dangers of paperclip maximizers. 
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Apr 15, 2024 05:50
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Marsupial Ape posted:A natural ambush tactic, really. Unlike with Laios, we can just skip over if it's dull. Deploy it, please.
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Apr 15, 2024 06:28
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Marsupial Ape posted:A natural ambush tactic, really. I think a lot of people already have unstated intuitions in place on how the Winged Lion and much of its history is also a very plausible depiction/metaphor of an apocalyptic paperclip/"utility"-maximising superintelligence like what might emerge in our own future (if the AI-spooked techbrosphere is to be taken at all seriously) -- assuming that's what you were getting at -- but do share your own thoughts!
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Apr 15, 2024 06:57
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DrSunshine posted:Speak! I, for one, give a poo poo about emergent complex systems and the dangers of paperclip maximizers. First. I have to explain Kui's worldbuilding in regards to magic as I understand it from what she has revealed in text, as I understand it. 'Magic' appears to just another intrinsic component of the natural order. Laois says "like magic or air" in regards to the epiphany that is the Winged Lion, but I think it is closer to gravity or magnetism. There's a whole host of defunct field theories from the pre-Socratics up to 'quantum mechanics' you can use to hand wave that. I think were meant to believe that it's zero point energy. The difference from other laws of nature, though, is that it seems to interact with conscious thought. Specifically desire. I see an immediate chick and egg problem, but let's assume that life needs magic and magic, being reactive to need, boot straps into awareness, if not consciousness. Anyway, all life requires mana, which appears to be metabolized magic. Mana is basically sugar. Mandrakes are mana "sugar beats", if you will. They 'photosynthesize' the magic field into "magic carbs". I'm supposing that the itty-bitty spirits represent some sort of blue-green algae or krill withing the mana ecosystem. Utilizing mana, which is magic laundered via the life cycle, represents immanent witchy stuff. Sucking magic directly from the 'infinity dimension' is trancesndent Lovecraftian stuff. Sky gods are bad for your health, imho. Naturally occurring dungeons appear to be actual examples of emergence. Several factors interact to create a system greater than the sum of its parts. A cave with the right conditions, some handy bats, and slime will start a primitive mana pump. If everything is just so...maybe you'll get glowy poo poo. Like young Falin's little dungeon. I have no idea if they have any kind of organizing mind. Would a big one develop some sort of primal genius loci? Would that boot strap into an epiphany demon like WL should it encounter a sentient being? Regardless, from context, it looks like these can collapse if they aren't getting enough traffic. As an aside, naturally occurring fission reactors are a thing. Again, from context, it appears that dungeons can self-propagate in artificial structures and ruins. Again, dark space with the right humidity. Bats making GBS threads in a forgotten tomb full of standing water and slimes, etc. I want to know if the awakened dungeon would some how pick up the 'theme' of the structure it manifests in. Like, would the Etruscan Tomb of the Bulls just start adding more chambers with weird AI art wall reliefs? Does the dungeon think its the guy in the tomb? The Winged Lion and, I'm guessing, all similar demons trapped in war-era dungeons are emergent systems that have boot strapped into the equivalent of a Chinese Room. It is a completely artificial and mutable being with possibly no self awareness. It exists to interact with humans for optimal persuasion and manipulation of humans. An empty palanquin on the back of an elephant that figured out how to become an rampant AI. I need to know if the Cleaners are naturally occurring like slimes or if they are purpose built conservators by Dungeon Lords.
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Apr 15, 2024 07:15
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The issue is the WL predates not just the ancient civilization but the split between different races. In fact it is implied every race is the result of a group wish that successfully utilized the WL. Also the defeat of the WL caused all dungeon lords in the world to lose power, proving the WL was telling the truth that there is only one dungeon demon, and all of them are just aspects of it. That's why the elves start a big therapy group for former dungeon lords after the end of the WL.
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Apr 15, 2024 07:33
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To be exact the WL is not even the proper Demon but another aspect. He's just the one we see the most so he became the face. The WL appears to be sticking around to observe things even if it lost it's hunger.
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Apr 15, 2024 08:07
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The Winged Lion/Demon loves and is fascinated by humanity. The same way Laios loves and is fascinated by monsters. Including chowing down the moment he gets something out of it, and sometimes when he doesn't.
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Apr 15, 2024 09:19
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Marsupial Ape posted:First. I have to explain Kui's worldbuilding in regards to magic as I understand it from what she has revealed in text, as I understand it. 'Magic' appears to just another intrinsic component of the natural order. Laois says "like magic or air" in regards to the epiphany that is the Winged Lion, but I think it is closer to gravity or magnetism. There's a whole host of defunct field theories from the pre-Socratics up to 'quantum mechanics' you can use to hand wave that. I think were meant to believe that it's zero point energy. The difference from other laws of nature, though, is that it seems to interact with conscious thought. Specifically desire. I see an immediate chick and egg problem, but let's assume that life needs magic and magic, being reactive to need, boot straps into awareness, if not consciousness. Anyway, all life requires mana, which appears to be metabolized magic. Mana is basically sugar. Mandrakes are mana "sugar beats", if you will. They 'photosynthesize' the magic field into "magic carbs". I'm supposing that the itty-bitty spirits represent some sort of blue-green algae or krill withing the mana ecosystem. Utilizing mana, which is magic laundered via the life cycle, represents immanent witchy stuff. Sucking magic directly from the 'infinity dimension' is trancesndent Lovecraftian stuff. Sky gods are bad for your health, imho. There’s one part you got wrong/missed that is important to clarify: There’s no “other Demons”. They’re all the same Demon for all intents and purposes. The Demon is the personality of Mana itself. By devouring its appetite, Laios functionally gave Mana a new personality. How will that work out? We dunno yet! It’s functionally unprecedented.
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Apr 15, 2024 11:43
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if the new paradigm turns out to be Bad, Actually, laios can just eat it again
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Apr 15, 2024 19:06
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Apr 15, 2024 20:45
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The real tragedy is that she's only 50 and might live to be 1000. With the elven age of maturity being 80 and the unpredictable way that half-elves grow, she might be an unstable mess for many many decades to come.
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Apr 15, 2024 21:05
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they made the elven equivalent of a 13 year old going through her emo phase dungeon master
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Apr 15, 2024 23:25
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Captain Oblivious posted:There’s one part you got wrong/missed that is important to clarify: There’s no “other Demons”. They’re all the same Demon for all intents and purposes. The Demon is the personality of Mana itself. By devouring its appetite, Laios functionally gave Mana a new personality. I think we are interpreting Winged Lion’s “individual hairs” metaphor. I see each ‘hair’ as an individual instance that is rooted in a greater whole. Heads of the hydra, if you will. Independent yet dependent. From this point of view, Laois destroyed this head’s appetite, but not the appetite of the others. It’s a metaphysical thought experiment. I’m blathering not so much as to be right but to explain my thought process. It only registered a little while ago, but the Winged Lion is straight up doing a Rapture. The Korean Horror Sky Arms threw me, but getting caught up into the sky is getting caught up into the sky. That’s a Rapturin’! Kui evokes a lot of poo poo with her imagery. It’s fun to take apart.
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Apr 16, 2024 00:36
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Issue with that thesis is that as mentioned above all dungeons and dungeon masters were affected simultaneously.
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Apr 16, 2024 03:08
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Marsupial Ape posted:Naturally occurring dungeons appear to be actual examples of emergence. Several factors interact to create a system greater than the sum of its parts. A cave with the right conditions, some handy bats, and slime will start a primitive mana pump. If everything is just so...maybe you'll get glowy poo poo. Like young Falin's little dungeon. I have no idea if they have any kind of organizing mind. Would a big one develop some sort of primal genius loci? Would that boot strap into an epiphany demon like WL should it encounter a sentient being? Regardless, from context, it looks like these can collapse if they aren't getting enough traffic. As an aside, naturally occurring fission reactors are a thing. There's a pretty clear dividing line between natural dungeons and artificial dungeons. In general, Dungeon Meshi lays out three types of dungeon: 1) "Natural dungeon" basically just seems to mean "place that tends to gather a lot of mana, which tends to attract monsters, which disproportionately like that mana". By themselves, natural dungeons aren't especially special. They're mildly dangerous, due to the monsters they attract, but that's about it. 2) However, natural dungeons are perfect starting places for creating an artificial dungeon, in which mages and craftsmen harness that power for their own purposes. As part of doing so, they'll tend to change the place to more effectively trap and harness mana, meddle with the ecosystem to ensure a more reliable population of monsters to guard the dungeon, and so on. If these dungeons are set up well as self-sustaining ecosystems, they can endure long past the death of their creator. Moreover, these dungeons tend to end up with tons of valuable or powerful stuff inside, and many of them hold advanced artifacts leftover from when the dwarves and elves fought over them. That said, some amount of conflict with outsiders is usually expected and taken into account when setting up that ecosystem balance, so a dungeon that's left totally alone for too long will tend to become overpopulated and start spilling out monsters into the surroundings. It's not clear how common these actually are, as we don't get much of a look at other dungeons. But Marcille and Farlyn met for the first time in a dungeonmaking class, so I can't imagine that basic forms of this are all that rare. 3) There's also a third category, dungeons where a demon has been involved. It's not clear exactly what's going on here. Marcille's studies suggest that the ancients harnessed demons for infinite magic power, and that dungeons were where they did it. The Winged Lion himself suggests that dungeons were prisons created to restrain the demon's power, capturing it within specified areas and binding it to obedience. Whatever the exact sequence of events is here, these dungeons are much more dangerous. Not only do they contain plenty of mana in their depths, but they also contain a demon who will happily help a dungeon lord wield that power any way they like, regardless of the lord's own magical abilities. The powers granted to the dungeon lord make it relatively easy to set up an extremely powerful dungeon. However, the manipulations of the demon, who's raising the dungeon lord either as food or as a plot to escape, make these dungeons a massive threat to the world in the eyes of the long-lived races. Marsupial Ape posted:I think we are interpreting Winged Lion’s “individual hairs” metaphor. I see each ‘hair’ as an individual instance that is rooted in a greater whole. Heads of the hydra, if you will. Independent yet dependent. From this point of view, Laois destroyed this head’s appetite, but not the appetite of the others. It’s a metaphysical thought experiment. I’m blathering not so much as to be right but to explain my thought process. The ending's pretty clear that the elves, at least, believe that whatever Laios did changed the nature of all demons. The Canaries are disbanded, Mithrun has to find a new goal in life, and the elven queen says that demons won't be doing any more wish-granting.
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Apr 16, 2024 03:29
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