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Well, it didn't say that all dungeons have the immortality curse, it said that "most dungeons that attract adventurers in numbers" have the curse. And since the dungeons that attract the most adventurers are dungeons with active demons who are actively turning the area into a trap to lure in the greedy and ambitious, that's where the curse would come from. After all, it's a lot easier to build up a population of career dungeon-divers if even a fatal blunder doesn't stop novices from learning from their mistakes and giving it another go, and the dungeon will be more attractive for non-combat stuff (like gold-strippers or the gnome academics) if death is just a cost of doing business rather than a permanent goodnight. In other words, the big difference in dungeons isn't whether they're situated in natural or manmade areas, it's whether they're caused by a summoned demon or just a bit of natural magic leakage. Besides, the immortality forced upon the Golden Kingdom residents is clearly different from what's available to adventurers. It's not clear what's going on with them - they seemed to think they were still living in their physical bodies as long as they stayed in the village, but from what we've seen in Thistle's house, there appears to be something more complicated going on. But in any case, it's clearly something more than just holding in the souls, since their bodies are perfectly preserved too, something we know isn't available to adventurers.
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Feb 22, 2021 23:38
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It's nice that, after all the times it's been pointed out that Laius doesn't get along with people and they all think he's kinda weird and annoying, everyone still thinks Laius is basically a nice person.
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Oct 16, 2021 18:07
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Captain Invictus posted:they could just lie and say something like "at the heart of every dungeon is a demon who possesses a victim and devours their soul, turning them into the dungeon master. anyone who kills the dungeon master is at risk of having their soul consumed and their body turned into the next puppet for the demon." the faithful would fear for their soul itself and the unfaithful probably wouldn't want to gently caress with an otherworldly being that can easily kill them. they wouldn't need to mention the wish thing. The current method worked pretty well for them, they got all the way to the dungeon lord's home all by themselves. If they'd run into Thistle, who had sealed the demon and fought primarily by summoning and directing monsters, Mithrun probably would have won easily. Back up at the entrance of the dungeon, on the other hand, two problems have been pretty clearly established: 1) the wealth and prosperity that comes from the dungeon is so great that everyone's driven by greed and don't give a drat about the dangers 2) no one trusts the elves, and they suspected from the start that the elves are coming simply to steal away the dungeon's wealth for themselves, and that anything they say is a lie towards that end
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Oct 18, 2021 14:13
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Nebrilos posted:I'm a little surprised that the whole party immediately rejected the idea of a life-expectancy of 1000 years. Like, not even one of them was tempted? I know in many other works of fiction (and there are examples in history too), there are people who would make any sacrifice in the name of immortality. 1000 years might not be forever, but from the perspective of a human, (or especially a halfling, which only lives to age 40) it may as well be. Especially Chilchak, who has only another ~15 years or so, he really isn't tempted by the prospect? Chil just wants to reconcile with his wife and spend a comfortable retirement running a store, and he's a cynic who tends to distrust things anyway. He knows better than to think this wild scheme is actually going to work, and he's already seen the misery of people with an extra thousand years of life firsthand. Besides, we've already met a halfling cranky about old folks like Chil running halfling affairs on the island and dictating what folks can do. Imagine what a thousand-year gerontocracy would do to that social system. Senshi's all about the natural order of things, a fella who's smoothly integrated himself into the dungeon ecosystem. And he's been living a miserable, lonely, traumatized life anyway, which is why he's been hiding out in the dungeon all this time - he doesn't feel like he can return to society anymore. He's got little use for life extension. Besides, he distrusts the hell outta magic. It seems like the demons seek out people who have warped desires already. The more ridiculous and unrealistic the dream they're devoted to, the more they'll rely on the demon's power to make it happen. Marcille wanted this whole life extension thing from the start, that's why she was studying illegal ancient magic.
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Dec 16, 2021 15:58
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Nebrilos posted:How could the lion eat her fear, if demons can only eat desires? Was it that demons could only eat desires, or was it that demons thought only desires were delicious? And I think Mithrun's argument was more that having her desires granted wouldn't actually bring her satisfaction or happiness - the demon would immediately stoke her next desire, and then her next one, and she'd just keep pursuing even-more-impossible desires and working herself ever-harder to fulfill them. Even if the demon helped her fulfill a desire, she wouldn't be able to enjoy it. As a former dungeon lord himself, he knows better than anyone the mental state of someone enthralled by a demon, blinded by their own desires. Hell, we're already seeing a bit of that. When Mithrun confronted her, she talked about reviving Farlyn, but it's not like she's actually working on that revival right now. Instead, she's raising an army of monsters to storm the surface. And no wonder, since her goal to modify the lifespans of everyone on the planet is a far greater desire than either Mithrun or Thistle had; it's probably an unparalleled feast for the demon, compared to the tiny morsel of "revive my friend".
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Apr 15, 2022 23:12
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PringleCreamEgg posted:Great chapter. I can’t believe it, the winged lion legitimately isn’t evil. I mean it isn’t good either but it’s genuinely not something that has bad intentions. I wouldn't say that, necessarily. Certainly, the demon doesn't want to destroy the world. But it doesn't have any issue driving individuals to madness and ruin, and then killing them. To it, other sentient creatures are like pre-industrial livestock - to be raised and fed with care as the valuable resource they are, right up until it's time to slaughter them for food. As such, it doesn't really respect human agency or free will. And if someone is no longer of any use to it, the demon will happily kill them without a second thought. Look at how eager it was to kill Mithrun, even against Marcille's will. It ties into kind of an ongoing theme that "evil" is just a matter of getting caught up in selfishness, being unable to resist your greed, and forgetting to be considerate toward others as you satisfy those desires. As a result, an otherwise "good" person like Marcille can cause a lot of destruction by falling for their desires - especially when tempted by the infinite power of the demon.
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Sep 15, 2022 23:47
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incredible chapter waiting two months for the next one is gonna be an eternity
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Dec 17, 2022 02:34
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FAT BATMAN posted:I think the reason Laios can do this is the lord of dungeon only controls the dungeon’s beasts as long as he’s in the dungeon? The moment he stepped out, Laios was no longer spellbound? I don't think Laios was actually under the demon's control in the first place. I think he didn't turn into a human-eating monster, but rather a demon-eating monster: a monster capable of eating the excess mana of an out-of-control dungeon, and then gobbling up the dungeon lord and the physical incarnation of the demon.
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Dec 18, 2022 18:44
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Laios' sister is gonna be fine He certainly wants to save her, but if that was anywhere near being his deepest or greatest desire, then the demon wouldn't have been able to turn him into a monster so easily The guy's issues run deep, and part of that is a hefty dose of denial about what he really wants deep down
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Feb 16, 2023 19:52
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Scallop Eyes posted:The chance of her coming back to this amazing world she created with other characters( or ones we didn't get to see much, like Farlin), or through short stories is pretty big I think. It's the final mystery: just what the hell is going on in the deepest depths of Laios' messed-up subconscious? It's a tough one, because even Laios himself realized that his deepest desires were too ridiculous to seriously pursue, or even to admit to himself. "Becoming a monster" was one of them, of course. But the wish the demon granted for Laios contained more than just that.  Safety for his friends, the revival of Farlyn, and a life without loneliness for Marcille...our old pal the Winged Lion found quite a bit knocking around in his list of true desires.
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Mar 19, 2023 00:19
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i like how literally no one likes the island's current governor
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Jun 17, 2023 03:38
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Pureauthor posted:can't help noticing Laios seems rather unenthusiastic about the meal he's too busy worrying about how to keep Marcille around especially after seeing that the Winged Lion messed with her mind. why did he do that, and what else might he have taken?we've only got one chapter left to find out what the demon's final curse was about, after all
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Aug 13, 2023 20:48
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Bad Seafood posted:The only thing in the entire series that didn't land with me was the bit where Thistle kills the party and we get the little dish name pop-up for Laois' dead party members. I know it's a lighthearted series and knew they'd find a way to bring them back, but it kinda just detracted from the moment. I would've preferred Kui commit to the dread of the total party kill for at least one chapter. it was a fun play on the "eat or be eaten" thing after spending the entire adventure finding new ways to turn monsters into cuisine, they themselves become cuisine at the hands of monsters
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Sep 16, 2023 23:25
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who does Marcille's hair now?????
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Sep 24, 2023 03:54
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RoboCicero posted:This is actually the first thing I thought of when I heard that there was going to be an anime adaptation. I hope we get the farming golems in the first season, it should be around the corner, right? For all the complaining Marcille and Chilchuck do, they'd both been adventuring with the Thordens for a fair while already, and were too nice and responsible to give up on Laios no matter what kind of bullshit he got up to. Izutsumi had no real attachment to them or to their quest from the start, so they had to win her over to the point where she wouldn't just ditch them the moment they weren't worth sponging off anymore. She does end up gelling with the party quite a bit in her own way, but the way she keeps a sense of distance from them helps provide a different perspective on the party, both about the poo poo they get up to and the fact that they're actually pretty nice and considerate people despite all that.
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Jan 17, 2024 07:19
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panko posted:yeah but none of that comes through in chapter 1 Shuro doesn't exactly like Laios, trust Laios, or enjoy dealing with Laios. and it doesn't really seem like he particularly got along with any of the others besides Farlyn. seems like he mostly kept to himself, aside from Laios constantly wanting to hang out with him makes sense that he wouldn't stick around to give a proper farewell before running off to go grab a party he felt was far more competent, and also makes sense that he wouldn't offer to take Laios with him
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Feb 21, 2024 22:15
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Laios is the goodest boy and that's why everyone puts up with his poo poo
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Feb 22, 2024 18:16
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VideoWitch posted:I love that Izutsumi was the only remember to remember the poop detail  incredible callback
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Feb 23, 2024 17:29
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Teriyaki Koinku posted:What are the chances that the author was partly inspired by Dwarf Fortress? Digging too deep and greedily leading to demons flooding in from an extradimensional space to kill everyone and escape to wreak havoc on the surface sounds very dorfy to me. "digging too deep and greedily" leading to problems has been a fantasy trope for a very long time Dwarf Fortress draws pretty clear inspiration from similar events that happened in stories like Lord of the Rings
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Mar 15, 2024 19:01
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It's not that Senshi's flawless, it's that he doesn't get many opportunities to showcase his flaws. He's basically a worse version of Laios. It's just that his difficulties in dealing with people don't pop up very often because he fled society and lives alone as a dungeon hermit, and his decades of experience living Laios' dream means that he tends to be less impulsive about his monster obsession than Laios is. He's found ways to adapt to his flaws and avoid being dragged into trouble by them too often, but he's still plenty flawed.
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Apr 8, 2024 23:47
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MonsterEnvy posted:Well Senshi is not going obsessed with Monsters like Laios. He’s a chef who enjoys exotic ingredients like monsters. He knows a fair amount from experience, but has never dug deep on them like Laios has. If it was just that, he wouldn't have tried to ride the kelpie. He doesn't cook monsters because he likes exotic ingredients. He cooks monsters because he'd rather live a solitary self-sufficient life down in the dungeon with monsters than live out in society with other people. Somewhere along the line, he turned that into a genuine love for living off the land as part of the ecosystem, existing in harmony with monsters. But his original motivation was just a fixation on the dungeon, an inability to move beyond the traumas he experienced down there. He just couldn't bear to leave it behind. If there's a difference, it's that Laios developed his love for monsters long before he was dealing with them regularly, while Senshi started living among monsters first and only then started to develop affection toward them. They certainly have similar levels of social dysfunction: 
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Apr 9, 2024 05:21
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Marsupial Ape posted:I just finished Vol 5 of the manga, putting me exactly one episode ahead of the anime. At what point have you consumed and incorporated enough dungeon matter that the the cleaners would just revivify you if you died on a lower level? Rest assured that this question will in fact be answered, and probably not too long from where you are now either. If you can't wait, the answer is never, because digesting stuff causes it to lose whatever individual identity or nature it had before. The act of digesting Dungeon Stuff into Nutrients and Poop strips it of any magic or magical nature it might have, reducing it to normal everyday nutrients and poop, no matter what it might have been before.
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Apr 13, 2024 18:02
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Marsupial Ape posted:Naturally occurring dungeons appear to be actual examples of emergence. Several factors interact to create a system greater than the sum of its parts. A cave with the right conditions, some handy bats, and slime will start a primitive mana pump. If everything is just so...maybe you'll get glowy poo poo. Like young Falin's little dungeon. I have no idea if they have any kind of organizing mind. Would a big one develop some sort of primal genius loci? Would that boot strap into an epiphany demon like WL should it encounter a sentient being? Regardless, from context, it looks like these can collapse if they aren't getting enough traffic. As an aside, naturally occurring fission reactors are a thing. There's a pretty clear dividing line between natural dungeons and artificial dungeons. In general, Dungeon Meshi lays out three types of dungeon: 1) "Natural dungeon" basically just seems to mean "place that tends to gather a lot of mana, which tends to attract monsters, which disproportionately like that mana". By themselves, natural dungeons aren't especially special. They're mildly dangerous, due to the monsters they attract, but that's about it. 2) However, natural dungeons are perfect starting places for creating an artificial dungeon, in which mages and craftsmen harness that power for their own purposes. As part of doing so, they'll tend to change the place to more effectively trap and harness mana, meddle with the ecosystem to ensure a more reliable population of monsters to guard the dungeon, and so on. If these dungeons are set up well as self-sustaining ecosystems, they can endure long past the death of their creator. Moreover, these dungeons tend to end up with tons of valuable or powerful stuff inside, and many of them hold advanced artifacts leftover from when the dwarves and elves fought over them. That said, some amount of conflict with outsiders is usually expected and taken into account when setting up that ecosystem balance, so a dungeon that's left totally alone for too long will tend to become overpopulated and start spilling out monsters into the surroundings. It's not clear how common these actually are, as we don't get much of a look at other dungeons. But Marcille and Farlyn met for the first time in a dungeonmaking class, so I can't imagine that basic forms of this are all that rare. 3) There's also a third category, dungeons where a demon has been involved. It's not clear exactly what's going on here. Marcille's studies suggest that the ancients harnessed demons for infinite magic power, and that dungeons were where they did it. The Winged Lion himself suggests that dungeons were prisons created to restrain the demon's power, capturing it within specified areas and binding it to obedience. Whatever the exact sequence of events is here, these dungeons are much more dangerous. Not only do they contain plenty of mana in their depths, but they also contain a demon who will happily help a dungeon lord wield that power any way they like, regardless of the lord's own magical abilities. The powers granted to the dungeon lord make it relatively easy to set up an extremely powerful dungeon. However, the manipulations of the demon, who's raising the dungeon lord either as food or as a plot to escape, make these dungeons a massive threat to the world in the eyes of the long-lived races. Marsupial Ape posted:I think we are interpreting Winged Lion’s “individual hairs” metaphor. I see each ‘hair’ as an individual instance that is rooted in a greater whole. Heads of the hydra, if you will. Independent yet dependent. From this point of view, Laois destroyed this head’s appetite, but not the appetite of the others. It’s a metaphysical thought experiment. I’m blathering not so much as to be right but to explain my thought process. The ending's pretty clear that the elves, at least, believe that whatever Laios did changed the nature of all demons. The Canaries are disbanded, Mithrun has to find a new goal in life, and the elven queen says that demons won't be doing any more wish-granting.
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Apr 16, 2024 03:29
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Schwarzwald posted:I've only caught a handful of the post-story comics, what's the scoop? The page in question: 
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May 11, 2024 21:26
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