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Ghost Leviathan posted:There's just an entire loving thing about how this ridiculous scheme went down that I'm sure you can have a field day with. Its more that you can tell a great deal about a person/authority figure by how the most vulnerable are treated. In the particular case of pour forums that is transpeople. To be sure its not my gender identity that necessarily put me on PPJ's radar- but my general anti-authoritarinism in combination with my willingness to step on the toes of the privileged. However, my overall identity made it very easy to PPJ to silence/harass me without it raising too much of a direct fuss+ it made it easy for well-intentioned people to misunderstand or overlook what was happening. Still laughing my rear end off at PPJ's extremely bad opsec- holy poo poo he never put any real thought into covering his tracks.
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Jan 8, 2020 22:54
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I am really heartened by recent developments in Trumpland and am more optimistic about the future than I have been in quite some time- Trumpism will remain an ongoing problem but Trump himself has deteriorated to the point that there isn't even enough mushbrain left for him to be a proper Narcissist. Ordinarily the chance to have the entire nation hang on his every word (in the wake of Iran's Missile attack) would have been irresistible- but Trump is too far gone to make a public appearance that late at night. In fact, based on Trumps performance at yesterdays press conference it seems pretty clear to me that it takes a considerable dose of freshly insuffulated uppers to get Trump coherent enough to read off a teleprompter: https://twitter.com/DrGJackBrown/status/969459702244376576 In terms of unwinding Trumps Narrativist base the ideal scenario would be for Trumps behavior to become so erratic that "Narrative Cohesion" breaks down in the right wing echo chamber. From this perspective Trump deteriorating under dementia+ his inner circle now being so high-Compaction that even Mike Lee wants to cut off their warmongering is basically America getting luckier than she deserves to be at the moment. So things are looking fantastic on that front, but enough posting about this threads topic and instead let me be a petty bitch and wax on indulgently about the Party Plane Jones situation. Its hard to know where to begin, but first off I am so happy/amused that this all came out largely because the body politic of C-SPAM flatly refused to go along with the "negative peace" that PPJ was trying to enforce*. (So so so much of this conflict played out along the lines of criticism that leftists usually level at centrists.) I think it really speaks to the differences between D&D and C-SPAm that even though this drama originally started in D&D (when PPJ probated a transwoman for lightly criticizing a mod)- in D&D everyone simply shrugged their shoulders and went on with things after the admin side to drop it. (Whereas C-SPAM started throwing molotovs until they got heard) I obviously didn't like PPJ because I thought he was a powertripping dick with a clear ideological bias- and while the Nazi discord thing is hilarious its not really all that surprising. Nazi's fetishize authority and Centrists tend to want to be in power much more than they have any coherent ideology- and PPJ is hardly the first shitlib to go fash. *when the government sucks the only moral choice is to become intentionally ungovernable I think its worth mentioning that although PPJ punished everyone who dared challenge leftist orthodoxy or the status quo- he definitely punished transposters more harshly than others. (In particular he would ignore dogpiles of certain posters and then probate the target of said dogpile) Now that I know he was chatting with Nazi's while all this was going on it makes a great deal of sense- it also explains why was steadily becoming more authoritarian/detached from the community over time. All that said I'm really quite pissed about PPJ taking advantage of KM- I can't see why people expect her to have seen through PPJ and/or not publicly defended a person she thought was secretly a hero protecting her. Everything KM did I can fuly undertand from her perspective and most any activist who becomes the kind of target KM has been is vulnerable to being exploited. (Even with the level of experience with manipulators and online spyops that I have I don't think I would have seen PPJ coming if I were in KM's shoes.)
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Jan 9, 2020 21:35
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Honestly? I like that we're clearing house somewhat and I gladly offer my probe list for considering other mods acting similar to ppj. Except cash crab. Protect our ratcoon. Here's hoping fyad stays dead
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Jan 10, 2020 00:52
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So I was gonna write up a giant effortpost about the source of the culture war between C-SPAM and the forums admins, and then I checked my QCS thread and discovered that someone else has taken the time to make my entire case for me: https://twitter.com/JanePrester/status/1215789999108452353?s=19
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Jan 11, 2020 01:22
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link to thread about lowtax and nazis?
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Jan 11, 2020 03:00
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Prude posted:As some may notice, I’m Prude from WTT (BMW), also seen in some of the existing screenshots related to the PPJ affair. Great work on “nailing” me, by the way, with all that data Jeffrey of YOSPOS and Koalas March must have received from that “operation” - I suppose I was just a little too difficult to locate under this same exact name.
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Jan 11, 2020 03:29
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Dang, did anyone get screenshots of that post? Already two of the images are dead. Edited because honestly people can see the racist and transphobic slurs for themselves, no need for me to repeat them. atomicgeek has issued a correction as of 07:33 on Jan 11, 2020 |
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Jan 11, 2020 07:31
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W E W what a turn this came to be. And yet as I read I go “wait this is like 100% Lowtax behavior why am I surprised?”
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Jan 11, 2020 07:44
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I wouldn’t trust a nazi. His only purpose in doing anything is to make the forums collapse. If forum rules enforcement ends up protecting nazis and driving good people away, maybe we should leave. But ask yourself why a nazi would share this information and whose ends your behavior serves. If lowtax were a nazi, why would nazis hate this place?
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Jan 11, 2020 20:16
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From what I’m reading it’s from a discord that Lowtax Nuked a long times ago for being nazi infested. Also good on that nazi being permabanned.
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Jan 11, 2020 21:24
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:I wouldn’t trust a nazi. His only purpose in doing anything is to make the forums collapse. If forum rules enforcement ends up protecting nazis and driving good people away, maybe we should leave. But ask yourself why a nazi would share this information and whose ends your behavior serves. If lowtax were a nazi, why would nazis hate this place? I owe some clarification here- I don't think Lowtax is a closet Nazi. I do however think he is so naive/out-of-touch with the modern internet that he is easily manipulated by Nazi's, and that lovebombing him is enough to get him to change forums policy. I guess my main criticism is that Lowtax doesn't understand the community that his livelihood depends upon, and that his main interest in this community is achieving a negative peace. This approach has filtered down to the actions of many of the mods- they are less interested in understanding this community than they are in simply getting everyone to quiet down. Many of the recent changes have amounted to little more than fiddling with punishments- supermods and 18 hour probations. Those logs display a level of disconnection that is a pretty good metaphor for the current predicament in the forums- the people at the top don't understand how to spot people arguing in bad-faith. (This has been reflected in the way probations have been handed out in the new QCS). Prester Jane has issued a correction as of 21:45 on Jan 11, 2020 |
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Jan 11, 2020 21:42
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Am I wrong I'm thinking that a lot of it is manipulating the idea that you need to please both sides and that both sides are equally valid?
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Jan 11, 2020 23:35
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Prester Jane posted:Still laughing my rear end off at PPJ's extremely bad opsec- holy poo poo he never put any real thought into covering his tracks. I would like to quote a part of PPJ’s now-infamous OP to hammer home how incredibly loving stupid PPJ was in the hopes that nothing ever happens like this again: quote:Finally another goon and I got tired of this. We messaged Lowtax and said, "hey can you like, uh, just delete the gaming garbage discord and remake it if you're going to use it going forward for streams or patreon or anything going forward. as it is it's complete dogshit full of posts and posters you really would not be associated with any sort of donation drive (the only people posting comments on it are people who were permabanned from SA as it is)" Without wanting to come across as defending Lowtax and all of his recent actions, Lowtax’s initial impulse here (ban all the Nazis) was 100% the correct decision and PPJ told Lowtax “no, don’t do that” and proposed the solution that led to user personal information being compromised as well as all of the resulting fallout. Even if one is still somehow giving PPJ's events the benefit of the doubt, what in the absolute gently caress is the thinking behind this kind of decision? I honestly can’t comprehend it.
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Jan 11, 2020 23:40
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There’s an element of heroism in the notion, that doing some complicated spy poo poo is better than just sweeping up all the trash. But that’s pointless and dangerous for reasons obvious in how things turned out. GDN, like it’s some secret society or something.
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Jan 12, 2020 00:06
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WampaLord posted:Lowtax “no, don’t do that” and proposed the solution that led to user personal information being compromised as well as all of the resulting fallout. I really don't wanna derail this thread more than needed, but you're seeing only the end result without any of the context. I was a moderator on a discord with PPJ during those events. Everything described in the bit you're worried about was discussed at great length in moderator chat. I won't speak for anyone else or discuss the contents of the conversations, but I was heavily, heavily in favor of centralized nazi banning. None of this poo poo happened in a vacuum, and PPJ was not the only person acting or making decisions. I can only assume that this information wasn't included in his post because he didn't want to drag us into the drama. I say this based on his public behavior and statements in that discord after the drama started. I stepped down as moderator there a few months ago. Given what I know, I find it hard to believe that PPJ is a nazi or that his moderator actions are influenced by any bias against trans people. I'm not saying he didn't have it out for Prester Jane, just that I don't think that bigotry is the driver. McGlockenshire has issued a correction as of 05:04 on Jan 14, 2020 |
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Jan 14, 2020 04:50
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McGlockenshire posted:I really don't wanna derail this thread more than needed, but you're seeing only the end result without any of the context. which of the nazi discords are you in, let's play another game of idiot, apologist or just another nazi wearing the red armband of "well actually"-ing trans people. My bet is #3 given the vagaries.
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Jan 14, 2020 05:30
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McGlockenshire posted:I really don't wanna derail this thread more than needed, but you're seeing only the end result without any of the context. "actually our creepy and incompetent spy-op that completely backfired was good and cool and I was in on it from the start"
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Jan 14, 2020 05:31
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McGlockenshire posted:I really don't wanna derail this thread more than needed, but you're seeing only the end result without any of the context. Sorry, none of this changes my complaint. I still think PPJs decision was incredibly misguided at best and y'all should have questioned the guy saying "No, don't ban the Nazis" a lot more.
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Jan 14, 2020 05:35
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McGlockenshire posted:I really don't wanna derail this thread more than needed, but you're seeing only the end result without any of the context. oh poo poo, the authoritarians are coming from inside the thread
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Jan 14, 2020 05:40
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T-man posted:which of the nazi discords are you in, let's play another game of idiot, apologist or just another nazi wearing the red armband of "well actually"-ing trans people. My bet is #3 given the vagaries. The CSPAM discord. I knew that not mentioning the discord name was gonna come back and bite me in the rear end. Every single one of the mods there is anti-nazi and there's a history of anti-creep bans that ended up spreading drama here (psst, we banned adamere a loooong time ago for the same reason he was banned here), so anyone telling you dumb poo poo about that crew has an agenda. 90% of that dumb drama comes from one user also, who happened to also be why I quit, so idk whatever. Believe me or don't, but everyone that I knew that was involved in discussing this was doing so in good faith. 420 Gank Mid posted:"actually our creepy and incompetent spy-op that completely backfired was good and cool yeah, that only unironically, for real. deplatforming works, even at the individual account on an individual server level. e: WampaLord posted:y'all should have questioned the guy saying "No, don't ban the Nazis" a lot more. the line of thinking was "why just ban some nazis now when we can ban even more nazis later?" also as far as I know most of them were banned manually and relatively swiftly. hell, the "ban even more nazis later" part never happened after the API keys got compromised anyway. McGlockenshire has issued a correction as of 05:49 on Jan 14, 2020 |
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Jan 14, 2020 05:43
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A lot of the nazis were already banned on this site too, the list was for GDN bans
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Jan 14, 2020 05:50
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McGlockenshire posted:the line of thinking was "why just ban some nazis now when we can ban even more nazis later?"  I hope you all at least realize that that line of thinking was wrong going forward.
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Jan 14, 2020 05:52
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since it’s been reported, if PJ wants to discuss how Lowtax or the forums fits into her sociopolitical theories and what have you itt I don’t plan to stop her, but a) this is not QCS and b) if Lowtax sees you talking poo poo about him I can’t protect you from the consequences. consider this your cautionary post.
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Jan 14, 2020 13:46
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McGlockenshire posted:I really don't wanna derail this thread more than needed, but you're seeing only the end result without any of the context. Every time an insider comes out on this story important the details change- particularly whether or not other people were involved in the spying or how aware other mods were of PPJ's clandestine activities. I appreciate what you are trying to do here McGlockenshire but at this point I just don't believe anything I hear about the PPJ situation anymore because its obvious that most people talking about it are knowingly obfuscating important details. Lightning Knight posted:since it’s been reported, if PJ wants to discuss how Lowtax or the forums fits into her sociopolitical theories and what have you itt I don’t plan to stop her, but a) this is not QCS and b) if Lowtax sees you talking poo poo about him I can’t protect you from the consequences. consider this your cautionary post. At this point my continuing participation in this community is starting to become something of a moral question (not the only poster that feels this way) and so my attitude st this point is "I takes my chances and I gets what I gets". That said, the heart of the ongoing forums culture war imo is the result of an incompatability between two different worldviews resulting from different lived experiences- on one side you have people who have generally lived in relatively stable social environments (and thus prefer a "negative peace" status quo) and on the other side you have those who believe that the status quo must be continuously and constantly reinvented, and that this disruption should be intentionally conducted in pursuit of an agenda.
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Jan 14, 2020 19:30
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Prester Jane posted:At this point my continuing participation in this community is starting to become something of a moral question (not the only poster that feels this way) and so my attitude st this point is "I takes my chances and I gets what I gets". That's your choice, but putting yourself in smaller social circles so you don't have to interact with the wrong sort of people doesn't seem like a great long-term solution either. Self-segregation is ultimately still segregation. Negative peace allows for progress, slow progress but still progress, segregation does not. Maybe just take a couple months off, let things blow over and settle down before you make an irrevocable decision to burn bridges? Winter is awful, things might look better in the spring. SA is miles more progressive than it was 10 years ago, be a shame to risk a permaban now and lock yourself out of whatever SA becomes tomorrow.
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Jan 14, 2020 20:07
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Just jumping in to say that I've been lurking here since the late 00's and honestly, I just remember it being 90% 'ironic' bigotry you had to sift through for anything funny or good. This place has changed massively and opting out permanently just seems like giving up and letting the Nazis win when the situation is better than ever before; the worst outcome would be decorum worshipping centrists being the only people left. PJ your threads and perspective are really interesting and it would be a shame to see them disappear from here.
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Jan 14, 2020 20:52
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I mean, the mass bans and probations have kind of helped that along, Slaavy
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Jan 14, 2020 22:35
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LK, people keep getting banned and threads keep getting locked for discussing any of this in QCS. Threads for this keep getting locked & gassed in CSPAM. Where should this be discussed? yeah, PJ, that’s basically where I’m at. i mean, poo poo, if the mods & their KF buddies will go after Wampa and Nichael, lastgirl, benghazi, all the other good posters who’ve been systematically hosed over one by one, everyone and anyone will get hosed if they speak out, so why care? gently caress it, punishment is inevitable. Facebook Aunt posted:That's your choice, but putting yourself in smaller social circles so you don't have to interact with the wrong sort of people doesn't seem like a great long-term solution either. Self-segregation is ultimately still segregation. Negative peace allows for progress, slow progress but still progress, segregation does not. lmao jesus, literally “just wait around and the rising tide of fascists will go away, somehow, smell the flowers  ”the_centrist.jpg
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Jan 14, 2020 22:52
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Facebook Aunt posted:That's your choice, but putting yourself in smaller social circles so you don't have to interact with the wrong sort of people doesn't seem like a great long-term solution either. Self-segregation is ultimately still segregation. Negative peace allows for progress, slow progress but still progress, segregation does not. lol nah Prester Jane posted:Every time an insider comes out on this story important the details change- particularly whether or not other people were involved in the spying or how aware other mods were of PPJ's clandestine activities. I appreciate what you are trying to do here McGlockenshire but at this point I just don't believe anything I hear about the PPJ situation anymore because its obvious that most people talking about it are knowingly obfuscating important details. PJ I hope you continue to contribute here, you've done more to improve SA than the entirety of FYAD and most of the admins (even excluding the pedos and nazis in the latter category, no point in doing so for the first)
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Jan 14, 2020 23:07
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Facebook Aunt posted:Negative peace allows for progress no by definition it does not
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Jan 15, 2020 00:54
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T-man posted:lol nah  Edit: I wouldn't be surprised if we get another cycle of shitstorms that forces out more shittiness either. StratGoatCom has issued a correction as of 01:50 on Jan 15, 2020 |
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Jan 15, 2020 01:46
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Also IMO at this point I want text logs from or confirmed by multiple otherwise unaffiliated participants before I believe anything, we need at least more than a murky and shifting je ne sais quoi given thus far.
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Jan 15, 2020 06:34
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If it's like the previous bits of this shitshow, we'll find out, sooner or later. Probably when it catches on fire and the mods  around about it again.
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Jan 16, 2020 21:09
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I just had the strangest idea. I recall hearing at some point about some experiment with a simulated gene pool. The critters in it were just made to do prisoner's dilemma over and over. They calculated the best risk/reward action based on their reading of the broader population. Cooperators emerged and took over the gene pool, because cooperators got the lowest prison sentences. But then without fail some cheaters also emerged. Too many cheaters in the gene pool would erode trust, so the system would always settle into a healthy baseline of just a few. I always interpreted this finding as my own freak theory for why sociopathic personality disorder might exist. Most people are hard-wired to cooperate, but some people have an aberration that makes them unable to feel the full range of emotions (such as when hurting someone else). Even though they understand perfectly well how goodwill works in others, instead of it instilling a moral code, their tendency is to use that understanding to take advantage and manipulate. Their own cooperative skills are re-purposed into ganging up on cooperators. In other words maybe it's not a defect but a recessive trait that can activate itself in a gene pool at random -- or whenever deemed advantageous based on the current read of the population. Okay, so that's probably a common hypothesis. Here's the stranger one that just occurred to me: What if there's other players that emerge in a typical human gene pool besides those two groups (sociopaths and not)? What about the critters from the simulation who develop distrust and stop cooperating and kick out the sociopaths when their number grows too large? Who are they? Well, they're people who can recognize patterns in behavior exceptionally well. People who can spot a bad faith actor not from any one act (all of which are tailored to mislead) but from an extended pattern of actions that more cooperative people can't pick up on. Schizophrenics have a pattern recognition system that works too well -- like it's on overdrive. What if it's not a mistake of genetics, but a defense mechanism? Schizophrenics are usually the ones shouting about the CIA secretly loving us over even when the farthest left folks otherwise aren't, and they're technically right. They're looking for patterns even when there are none to be found. But sometimes there *are* patterns to be found that the liberal majority naturally cannot pick up on. At those times, do schizophrenics align with leftists? And at all other times I suppose, schizophrenics are dysfunctional -- when there are no insidious patterns to spot, their minds work on overdrive to drive them crazy and waste their energy on things that aren't real. We see the effect of psychopaths/sociopaths on politics -- fascist leaders, mobsters, spooks, trolls and so on tend to have the disorder -- they tend to have similar personalities, they find each other, they form teams to manipulate the larger crowd into getting what they want. That's the right wing part. What if the left wing complement of this phenomenon is schizophrenia? Are paranoid and partial schizoid types like me driving politics leftward to counteract how psychopaths are driving it rightward? I have no idea how to test this. Just a hypothesis out of the blue from someone fascinated by the effects of pathological psychology on world events. Happy Thread has issued a correction as of 09:41 on Jan 17, 2020 |
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Jan 17, 2020 08:40
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Dumb Lowtax posted:Schizophrenics have a pattern recognition system that works too well -- like it's on overdrive. What if it's not a mistake of genetics, but a defense mechanism? Schizophrenics are usually the ones shouting about the CIA secretly loving us over even when the farthest left folks otherwise aren't, and they're technically right. They're looking for patterns even when there are none to be found. But sometimes there *are* patterns to be found that the liberal majority naturally cannot pick up on. At those times, do schizophrenics align with leftists? they identify government conspiracies because that's the organization that they've associated with 'power, reach, and motivation to do conspiracies'. they could just as easily say 'the masons', 'the church', 'the literary world trying to suppress this author', etc if they have some lingering connection which says 'that group is bad because of the information i possess'. it's a function of how they interacted with the world and where they saw relative power. quote:And at all other times I suppose, schizophrenics are dysfunctional -- when there are no insidious patterns to spot, their minds work on overdrive to drive them crazy and waste their energy on things that aren't real. it's not even 'no insidious patterns', it's 'their separation from reality tries to focus on specific things to the exclusion of everything else'. it'd be like taking every possible precaution against a tiger attack while in a grizzly bear habitat. quote:We see the effect of sociopaths on politics -- fascist leaders, mobsters, spooks, trolls and so on tend to have the disorder -- they tend to have similar personalities, they find each other, they form teams to manipulate the larger crowd into getting what they want. That's the right wing part. What if the left wing complement of this phenomenon is schizophrenia? Are paranoid and partial schizoid types like me driving politics leftward to counteract how psychopaths are driving it rightward? mental illness knows no political spectrum. there's plenty of right-wing/authoritarian schizophrenics who do conservative things according to what they perceive as god, as i'm sure that there's plenty of left-leaning/egalitarian sociopaths who would want a more equitable society just to use it to their advantage. a person's politics can be shaped by and potentially even controlled by their mental disorder, but that's still a function of their internal politics and monologue. it's not going to steer them in a direction they would be completely against going in the first place, though that raises the philosophical question of "if your political beliefs are amplified to unhealthy levels based on your mental illness, could you even be considered on that political spectrum?" edit: obviously, none of this is meant to disparage anyone with schizophrenia. redneck nazgul has issued a correction as of 09:31 on Jan 17, 2020 |
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Jan 17, 2020 09:18
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Dumb Lowtax posted:I just had the strangest idea. I think that your stranger hypothesis would be fine if you replaced schizophrenics with people who have paranoid personalities. The kinds of illnesses that inhibit one's capacity to function in society pretty much have to be unlucky combinations of traits that are useful outside such combinations for them to have survived evolution. For every ill person, you will probably find a healthy person who has whatever perks are associated with the illness. Of course health is also relative, the cutoff point for when something is a disorder depends on what the existing social relations require of people. It's also useful to think about antisocial personality tendencies without worrying about the cutoff point for the personality disorder. Even regarding people with antisocial personality disorder, it's not that they can't participate in a shared morality, it's that they find it natural to empathetically dissociate from others, so they won't intuitively, by themselves, develop the kind of morality where you're supposed to treat different people the same way. But it's not terribly hard to produce an analogous kind of selective empathetic dissociation in a lot of people who are not considered damaged in any way. It's not even confirmed when the kinds of people who you name as sociopaths were sociopaths all along, and when their roles cultivated them to experience their environment in a sociopathic manner. I'm in the camp who hypothesizes that our social organization produces sociopaths by cultivating less extreme antisocial traits in people rather than simply finding them and utilizing them as they exist. The idea about inherent political leanings based on personality is utterly wrong though. For example, sociopathy is a universally heroic trait in violent times, all sides love sociopaths and raise them up their ranks. If you find some kind of military leader that was produced organically in some basically progressive rebellion, the chances they got there through simple sociopathic tendencies are massive. Actually the more I study socially progressive history, the more convinced I become that PJ's narrativists also find an organic role in movements, and that they initially enter the social positions they do based on straight-up merit. Doing the hard and thankless work of organizing people and cultivating others to do it is just something they would seem to excel at in the right conditions. And they participate in keeping the sociopaths honest by force-feeding them a moral role that they need to assume or at least perform convincingly. It's actually important, sociopathic organic leaders without a morality forced on them will turn on a dime and sell out their movement when personally bribed with a good enough deal.
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Jan 17, 2020 09:49
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Dumb Lowtax posted:I just had the strangest idea. Did you read The Quantum Thief perchance? I've been mulling something very similar. I have a little text file on my desktop titled "insane musings" (is this ableist/being lovely? I can change it but I've only recently become aware that some people might find it lovely) full of various one sentence references to my highdeas and one of them is labeled "Cooperationism vs competitionism". At first I was thinking in terms of an un/selfish axis, but I think that may be overly reductive. Dumb Lowtax posted:Okay, so that's probably a common hypothesis. Here's the stranger one that just occurred to me:. Agreed on that first point. RN addressed a lot of the issues with this, but I just want to say that a left/right spectrum, or any 1 or 2 axis representation of human beliefs, is again entirely too reductive. This is where things like "horse shoe theory" and "fish hook theory" come from, people who are closer together on axes that aren't properly represented. The prisoners dilemma is a pretty good thought game, but being a game it fails to reflect the full range of complexity of betrayals and cooperations humans experience or the Lensman Arms Race style benefits that competition can create.
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Jan 17, 2020 14:32
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Psychopathy is a matter of degree and not a binary. There are degrees of psychopathy that are prosocial, like people who are driven to lead. It’s not possible to be a good leader if you’re not at least a little arrogant and don’t believe that you’re the best person for the job (because logically it’s not possible to know that with any certainty). It becomes a disease when people end up too far along the spectrum to function.
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Jan 17, 2020 15:11
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There’s also the fact that we live in a society that rewards psychopathy and encourages people to behave as psychopaths from an early age. If we had a different social order, who’s to say most psychopaths wouldn’t just go along to get along?
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Jan 17, 2020 15:13
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Oh yeah I don't mean to say that I actually believe any personality disorder to be determined at birth. Just about all non-reflex behaviors are understood to be *both* genetic and environmental. Otherwise childhood abuse wouldn't be a predictor for so many things. Further, it implies they might be reversible. I think the larger point still stands. Those gene pool sims aim to be kind of abstract, so they wouldn't really care at what age a tendency comes out. As long as the behavior eventually emerges, and does so in response to pressure from the rest of the population's demographics. Within a population, some so-called "disorders" might serve a hidden function or advantage. e: Split the post, and rolled over onto the next page 
Happy Thread has issued a correction as of 10:25 on Jan 19, 2020 |
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Jan 19, 2020 10:08
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