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VideoGameVet
May 14, 2005

It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion. It is by the juice of Java that pedaling acquires speed, the teeth acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion.

Bar Ran Dun posted:

Heard of a new thing on the radio. Apparently framing techniques are being used to greatly expand where it’s possible to do geothermal.

Times has an article on it: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/28/climate/geothermal-energy-projects.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

fracking. and it looks like it will work.

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Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




Thanks drat autocorrect. I’ve been trying to think of a downside and other than the fracking related ones I don’t see any. And I’d think those wouldn’t be as bad because they aren’t breaking rock to free hydrocarbons.

Electric Wrigglies
Feb 6, 2015

Interesting how much of the oil and gas industry experience is so transferable to low carbon energy.

For offshore wind farms, the blades and motor are the easy bit. It is the safe installation, maintenance and decommissioning of the installation itself that is the hard bit and O&G has been doing it for decades at this point. By some co-incidence, the North Sea is also super great for offshore wind, so some guys trained on oil rigs are going to finish their career on wind farms without ever moving out of Aberdeen.

Fracking is nearly entirely based upon O&G development.

Biofuel facilities are just a fancy oil refinery (although the hard bit with biofuels is scale and dependability of feedstock - marketing and standing up small scale vendors on a large scale is completely out of O&G skill set).

Super large capital raising and management is old hat for the oil majors. Nuclear a little bit easier community acceptance wise would attract capital (and capital management) that used to flow to large scale O&G projects. Likewise permitting, ESIA, community consultation etc is becoming more important as renewable projects start to get similar scrutiny as O&G/mineral exploitation projects have and there is a whole cottage industry around supplying those skills already to O&G.

As solar farms, wind farms etc grow in scale and complexity and with increasing requirement to execute projects on time, on budget and within scope, it is going to be more and more mineral exploitation project managers and firms that have the skills and supply chain institutional knowledge to deliver these projects like a cookie cutter that will pick up more of this work.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
You do wonder what the world would look like today if companies like Exxon Mobil had used their vast resources to pivot to nuclear and renewables instead of using them for climate change denial.

jeeves
May 27, 2001

Deranged Psychopathic
Butler Extraordinaire

Gort posted:

You do wonder what the world would look like today if companies like Exxon Mobil had used their vast resources to pivot to nuclear and renewables instead of using them for climate change denial.

You do wonder what the world would look like today if without human greed and the rich’s obsession with wealth hoarding? And of course without their wealth hoarding enforcement lackies of the current Republican Party and other authoritarian flunkies?

Tragicomic
Jun 6, 2011

by Modern Video Games

jeeves posted:

You do wonder what the world would look like today if without human greed and the rich’s obsession with wealth hoarding? And of course without their wealth hoarding enforcement lackies of the current Republican Party and other authoritarian flunkies?

Some solarpunk novels exploring this would be nice, yeah

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

jeeves posted:

You do wonder what the world would look like today if without human greed and the rich’s obsession with wealth hoarding? And of course without their wealth hoarding enforcement lackies of the current Republican Party and other authoritarian flunkies?

Yeah

imperiusdamian
Dec 8, 2021

jeeves posted:

You do wonder what the world would look like today if without human greed and the rich’s obsession with wealth hoarding? And of course without their wealth hoarding enforcement lackies of the current Republican Party and other authoritarian flunkies?

You mean the Dominionist Party?

VideoGameVet
May 14, 2005

It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion. It is by the juice of Java that pedaling acquires speed, the teeth acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion.
Extrapolations is as good of show about where we are heading with climate as any I have seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we0e-2okfKk

Brendan Rodgers
Jun 11, 2014




It's a decent show, it's too tame for what is actually happening, but it is also too radical for this thread. The India episode is the best.

VideoGameVet
May 14, 2005

It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion. It is by the juice of Java that pedaling acquires speed, the teeth acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion.

Brendan Rodgers posted:

It's a decent show, it's too tame for what is actually happening, but it is also too radical for this thread. The India episode is the best.

I liked the Miami Bat Mitzvah best but yeah, the India episode was great. The whale one bought tears to my eyes.

The biggest takeaway I got was that people will passively put up with gastly conditions as long as they happen over the spans of a decade or so. And yeah, the series is NOT a worse case scenerio … not even close, but it’s not optimistic either.

I have two more episodes to go.

slashtom
Jan 5, 2012
VeteranX

VideoGameVet posted:

Extrapolations is as good of show about where we are heading with climate as any I have seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we0e-2okfKk

Hope it gives some perspective to people..

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

"Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

slashtom posted:

Hope it gives some perspective to people..

The only perspective it'll give to the average Boomer is "ha ha, I'mma be dead by then." :smug:

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

cat botherer
Jan 6, 2022

I am interested in most phases of data processing.
The Amazon's dyin, Cloud:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/oct/18/drought-amazon-capital-climate-manaus-forest-fires-air-quality-rivers

Drought turns Amazonian capital into climate dystopia

quote:

A withering drought has turned the Amazonian capital of Manaus into a climate dystopia with the second worst air quality in the world and rivers at the lowest levels in 121 years.

The city of 1 million people, which is surrounded by a forest of trees, normally basks under blue skies. Tourists take pleasure boats to the nearby meeting of the Negro and Amazon (known locally as the Solimões) rivers, where dolphins can often be seen enjoying what are usually the most abundant freshwater resources in the world.

But an unusually dry season, worsened by an El Niño and human-driven global heating, has threatened the city’s self-image, the wellbeing of its residents and the survival prospects for the entire Amazon basin.

The forest capital has been enveloped in a murky brown haze reminiscent of China during its most polluted phase. The usually vibrant port has been pushed far out across the dried-up, rubbish-strewn mud flats.

A severe drought is triggering a lot of wildfires in the Amazon. Long-term, big parts of the Amazon are going to transition to savanna as we see more events like these. There's also kind of a hysteresis mechanism of forests regulating the local climate through evapotranspiration, which can be broken through droughts and wildfires.

Mr Lanternfly
Jun 26, 2023
Kinda wish the Amazon (and other protected lands) was patrolled by drones with those sword missiles. Illegally logging or poaching? Sword missile to the face.

davebo
Nov 15, 2006

Parallel lines do meet, but they do it incognito
College Slice
TIL "those" sword missles are the drone missles with blades that flip out before impact, and not just some cartoon/meme reference I hadn't heard of with a katana taped to a rocket.

Failed Imagineer
Sep 22, 2018

davebo posted:

TIL "those" sword missles are the drone missles with blades that flip out before impact, and not just some cartoon/meme reference I hadn't heard of with a katana taped to a rocket.

I thought they were just talking about Iain M Banks' knife missiles. Cool if they're real though, I hope one ends up barreling through the bedroom window of every single oil industry executive

Scrungus
Nov 21, 2022

Failed Imagineer posted:

I thought they were just talking about Iain M Banks' knife missiles. Cool if they're real though, I hope one ends up barreling through the bedroom window of every single oil industry executive

More likely they barrel through the window of everyone resisting the oil company executive :/

jeeves
May 27, 2001

Deranged Psychopathic
Butler Extraordinaire
West Antarctic ice shelf collapse now inevitable regardless of possible future climate change policy changes.

We all knew this was going to happen, but it is now a "eh future people problem" of 5 meter sea rise.

Fun fact: This NOAA projection tool maxes out at 3M.

jeeves fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Oct 24, 2023

Eason the Fifth
Apr 9, 2020
This is good news for the sea wall construction industry

Kaal
May 22, 2002

through thousands of posts in D&D over a decade, I now believe I know what I'm talking about. if I post forcefully and confidently, I can convince others that is true. no one sees through my facade.

Eason the Fifth posted:

This is good news for the sea wall construction industry

Also U-Haul

VideoGameVet
May 14, 2005

It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion. It is by the juice of Java that pedaling acquires speed, the teeth acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion.

Eason the Fifth posted:

This is good news for the sea wall construction industry

... and a test of the North Carolina law against sea level rise.

PhazonLink
Jul 17, 2010
i like how my mind went with flat earth logic first and BIG GLOBE making bank repairing the great ice wall.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

"Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

VideoGameVet posted:

... and a test of the North Carolina law against sea level rise.

I hear you can just whip water that doesn't do what you want. Results were less than stellar the last time it was tried, though.

VideoGameVet
May 14, 2005

It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion. It is by the juice of Java that pedaling acquires speed, the teeth acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion.
65 mph to 165 mph winds in TWELVE HOURS

Hurricane Otis slammed into Mexico’s Pacific coast this morning as a Category 5 storm with 165-mph winds, heavy rain, and dangerous storm surge. Forecasters were caught off guard by the storm’s rapid intensification: It formed on Sunday, grew to a Category 1 storm by Tuesday, and then “explosively intensified” over a few hours to become the strongest storm ever to hit this part of Mexico. Acapulco, home to more than 850,000 people, is directly in the storm’s path, but because the storm strengthened so quickly, residents have had little time to prepare. “A nightmare scenario is unfolding for southern Mexico,” says the National Hurricane Center. “There are no hurricanes on record even close to this intensity for this part of Mexico.” A study published last week found that climate change is causing storms to intensify very quickly.

https://twitter.com/burgwx/status/1716972676471021754?s=20

Goatse James Bond
Mar 28, 2010

If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

jeeves posted:

West Antarctic ice shelf collapse now inevitable regardless of possible future climate change policy changes.

We all knew this was going to happen, but it is now a "eh future people problem" of 5 meter sea rise.

Fun fact: This NOAA projection tool maxes out at 3M.

afaict the conclusion isn't quite as certain as you're putting it, as you read the article the scientists involved hedge a bit

still not good news in modeling

cat botherer
Jan 6, 2022

I am interested in most phases of data processing.

Google Jeb Bush posted:

afaict the conclusion isn't quite as certain as you're putting it, as you read the article the scientists involved hedge a bit

still not good news in modeling
The tl;dr with the West Antarctic Ice Sheet (WAIS) situation (that the article weirdly doesn't get into at all) is that the collapse is inevitable (glaciologists have semi-privately acknowledged that for like a decade), but nobody knows how fast it will go (like even within an order of magnitude).

WAIS is uniquely vulnerable to what's called the marine ice-sheet instability: Ice sheets are big domes that splooge out under their own weight. There's not much surface melting in Antarctica, so the vast majority of the snow that falls ultimately ends up in the ocean. Much of of WAIS's bed is below sea level, but the thickness of the ice above prevents flotation from occurring. At the margins in the Amundsen Sea and other places, the ice detaches at the "grounding line" at floats beyond there in the form of ice shelves. Near the grounding line, the bed is often made of flat sediment, and the ice is almost but not quite floating. The grounding line positions tend to stable, however, because the ice shoves up a sediment wedge (like a ridge) in front of it. That pushes back on the ice, slowing down calving and causing it to be thicker than it would otherwise would be. Thus, the grounding line is stable to small enough perturbations in ice flux towards the edge.

HOWEVER, if retreat from a stable grounding line and sediment wedge occurs, you lose the longitudinal (backwards) compression, causing faster calving. What's worse is that most of WAIS is on a reverse bed, where the bed (and water) gets deeper as you go back towards the center of the ice sheet. Thus, when the grounding line retreats, the ice at the new grounding line is necessarily thicker (because grounding line occurs at the point the ice starts to float, and the water is deeper). That means there is greater ice flux at the grounding line, accelerating ice loss. This continues, and accelerates, until the ice shelf "collapses." What controls how fast the acceleration can happen is not well-known at all. It's only known that it should be accelerating. It might take a thousand years, it might take 50 years or even less.

The good news is that collapse is inevitable no matter what we do. We could go into another glacial period tomorrow and it would still collapse. So just roll that coal baby.

VideoGameVet
May 14, 2005

It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion. It is by the juice of Java that pedaling acquires speed, the teeth acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion.
Cop28 president says there is ‘no science’ behind demands for phase-out of fossil fuels



The president of Cop28, Sultan Al Jaber, has claimed there is “no science” indicating that a phase-out of fossil fuels is needed to restrict global heating to 1.5C, the Guardian and the Centre for Climate Reporting can reveal.

Al Jaber also said a phase-out of fossil fuels would not allow sustainable development “unless you want to take the world back into caves”.

The comments were “incredibly concerning” and “verging on climate denial”, scientists said, and they were at odds with the position of the UN secretary general, António Guterres.

Al Jaber made the comments in ill-tempered responses to questions from Mary Robinson, the chair of the Elders group and a former UN special envoy for climate change, during a live online event on 21 November. As well as running Cop28 in Dubai, Al Jaber is also the chief executive of the United Arab Emirates’ state oil company, Adnoc, which many observers see as a serious conflict of interest.

yaffle
Sep 15, 2002

Flapdoodle

VideoGameVet posted:

Al Jaber is also the chief executive of the United Arab Emirates’ state oil company, Adnoc, which many observers see as a serious conflict of interest.

Huh, it's actually surprising how barefaced that is.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.
He has reportedly used his position to promote oil deals. It's looking like a really good call that Biden didn't attend.

GhostofJohnMuir
Aug 14, 2014

anime is not good
i heard some coverage in the leadup to this, and the implications of a petrostate kind of running it. seems like they're about what you would expect

Mid-Life Crisis
Jun 13, 2023

by Fluffdaddy
They really think we’re this stupid

Mega Comrade
Apr 22, 2004

Listen buddy, we all got problems!

Mid-Life Crisis posted:

They really think we’re this stupid

*Gestures around* we aren't?

America and Europe are having a sweeping resurgence of facism based on easily provable falsehoods. We are not a smart people.

bird food bathtub
Aug 9, 2003

College Slice

Mid-Life Crisis posted:

They really think we’re this stupid

It's more that they don't care if we are or not as it doesn't matter. Us knowing about it or not liking it is immaterial. The modern golden rule is still around, and they have the gold.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
Just came across this randomly on imgur. Seems... bad?

Femtosecond
Aug 2, 2003

Alberta's population is booming right now due to it having relatively affordable housing. That's a problem.

quote:


Alberta’s Brutal Water Reckoning
Scientists who studied the region’s arid past warned this drought was coming. Thirst for growth won out. A Tyee special report.
...
Groundwater levels in parts of Alberta have reached record lows. Wells in Rocky View County just outside of Calgary, for example, show steady declines and the lowest levels ever measured. Some 600,000 rural Albertans depend on groundwater.

Most of the province’s water reservoirs sit five metres below their normal waterlines, boat launch docks projecting over baked earth like monuments from a lost civilization.

The Oldman River Dam, a $500-million megaproject built for the irrigation industry, has become a desert of silt cut by a narrow canal of chocolate water. It sits at 30 per cent capacity. Normally it ranges from 60 to 80 per cent full.

St. Mary Reservoir normally was between 40 and 70 per cent full. Today, at 11 per cent capacity, it has become a ghost of a water body. The Spray Lakes Reservoir, high in Kananaskis country, reports 34 per cent of capacity.

Lake Diefenbaker, from which the people of Saskatchewan get 60 per cent of their drinking water, received only 28 per cent of normal inflow last year from heat-stricken Alberta, a plummet scientists called “unprecedented.”

...

Meanwhile Danielle Smith’s United Conservative Party government has appointed an advisory body with no known water experts. But it does include Ian Anderson, a promoter of the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion that will transport bitumen from the oilsands to the Port of Vancouver, criss-crossing many dwindling rivers, creeks and streams as it does.

...

No one sounded the alarm more persistently and urgently than the late David Schindler, one of the world’s great water ecologists.

Schindler never tired of reminding Albertans that their province has only 2.2 per cent of Canada’s renewable fresh water. Meanwhile its industries, government and residents behaved as though water came from ever-flowing taps instead of dwindling glaciers, rivers, aquifers and snowpacks.

There’s another ignored reality. Eighty per cent of Alberta’s water flows north while 80 per cent of the province’s growing population lives in the drier portion south of Edmonton.

...

The number of days that winter snow lingered on the ground had shortened. The mean depth of snowpacks had shrivelled in the last 100 years.

These dwindling snowpacks once provided water insurance for rivers in the months of May and June, noted Schindler and Donahue. But no more.

All these drying trends have been compounded by the arrival of more and more residents. The oilsands boom triggered a 15 to 20 per cent population surge between 1996 and 2001, which “rendered Alberta the most vulnerable of the western prairie provinces to water shortages,” wrote Schindler and Donahue.

At the time of their paper, Alberta boasted 3.4 million human water drinkers. Now the number tops 4.7 million, and Premier Smith has said she would like to see that population more than double.
...

The Tyee asked Bill Donahue about the famous paper and all it warned and prescribed. The independent water scientist and Alberta Environment’s former chief monitoring officer was blunt.

“We’re now 18 years after our PNAS paper made waves and Alberta’s in a worse position,” said the scientist, who now lives in British Columbia. “The irrigated acreage has expanded substantially, water-intensive oil and gas production has skyrocketed, mainly in the form of natural gas fracking and mined and in situ bitumen extraction, and climate change has continued to advance.

“Today’s Alberta government is completely incapable of managing something like climate change, drought and widespread water shortage because they only see environmental problems as political and ideological problems, as opposed to actual problems with potentially catastrophic real-world consequences.”

...

Jesus III
May 23, 2007
Canada doing a reverse Florida.

Celexi
Nov 25, 2006

Slava Ukraini!
just drink crude oil, it has water right?

MixMasterMalaria
Jul 26, 2007

Celexi posted:

just drink crude oil, it has water right?

But it has what plants crave.

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Eddy-Baby
Mar 8, 2006

₤₤LOADSA MONAY₤₤

quote:

The good news is that, in the face of these growing threats, resorts have been dramatically improving the efficiency of their snowmaking operations — a move they hope will help them outrun rising temperatures.

https://grist.org/culture/greener-snowmaking-is-helping-ski-resorts-weather-climate-change

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