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Eddy-Baby posted:https://grist.org/culture/greener-snowmaking-is-helping-ski-resorts-weather-climate-change As the air quality gets progressively shittier at sea level, it wouldn't surprise me if higher-altitude resorts don't start charging a "clean air fee" to go along with destination/resort fees. And, of course, staff will have said fees deducted from their paychecks, because No Free Clean Air For Proles. 
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Feb 21, 2024 08:15
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Celexi posted:just drink crude oil, it has water right?
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Feb 21, 2024 14:13
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first person in us arrested for smuggling greenhouse gassesquote:The unusual contraband is sold on Craigslist and Facebook for hundreds of dollars: canisters of a banned refrigerant, for use in outdated refrigerators and air-conditioners, that is also a potent planet-warming gas. a drop in the bucket, but it offers a glimmer of hope for the dream of un one world government hunter killer drones swooping down and vaporizing scum who use incandescent light bulbs GhostofJohnMuir fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Mar 6, 2024 |
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Mar 6, 2024 21:29
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a quiet place, except the aliens are attracted to light from incandescent light bulbs
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Mar 6, 2024 22:18
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:first person in us arrested for smuggling greenhouse gasses Counterfeit refrigerant and refrigerant snuggling is a pretty big deal. Kids call it “bomb reefers” https://ozone.unep.org/system/files/documents/Issue_Paper_UNEP_ROAP_May_2012.pdf
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Mar 6, 2024 22:45
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Adam Conover has a good interview with a data researcher talking about climate change pessimism. She has a book out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP3L1bmwxjQ
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Mar 27, 2024 20:01
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oh word (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 28, 2024 00:25
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What does one even do with a canister of cfcs?
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Mar 28, 2024 00:45
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Boris Galerkin posted:What does one even do with a canister of cfcs? own the libs
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Mar 28, 2024 02:25
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Boris Galerkin posted:What does one even do with a canister of cfcs? Sell them to international shipping companies with reefer equipment that still uses them.
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Mar 28, 2024 02:29
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"Climate change isn't the end of the world", says woman who is lucky enough not to have died due to climate change.
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Mar 28, 2024 12:18
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The point is valid. The world isn't going to end, it's just going to get very poo poo for a lot of people. Some people act like if we can't prevent 2c then no point doing anything, it's a very counter productive form of doomarism that just helps accelerate the problem. Mega Comrade fucked around with this message at 12:44 on Mar 28, 2024 |
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Mar 28, 2024 12:34
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Mega Comrade posted:The point is valid. The world isn't going to end, it's just going to get very poo poo for a lot of people. Speaking of doomerism though, there's a new Climate Town video on natural gas and how the leakages are loving us. It's not a new discovery and I've been aware of it, but it's a good summary of the issue https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2oL4SFwkkw
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Mar 28, 2024 15:00
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Climate town I don't think has ever covered something I wasn't at least somewhat informed on but the format is excellent for sharing. None of my friends want to read scientific studies but they will watch a 30 minute video with jokes in it.
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Mar 28, 2024 15:54
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Nobody is saying "give up," but most all anti-"doomer" stuff I see is concern-trolling when people call out how *bad* this problem is, and how little has been done about it. We are very much on a trajectory towards near-total collapse of the biosphere and our advanced industrial civilization. That's not doomerism, that's reality. There is hope, but it takes far more drastic action than we have done or is in the pipeline. It doesn't benefit the cause to minimize the problem.
cat botherer fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Mar 28, 2024 |
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Mar 28, 2024 15:59
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Mega Comrade posted:The point is valid. The world isn't going to end, it's just going to get very poo poo for a lot of people. 2.5C is widely regarded as the "hard limit" basically. At that point, the climate breaks down catastrophically and we all get hosed. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/oct/26/current-emissions-pledges-will-lead-to-catastrophic-climate-breakdown-says-un Johan Rockström, one of the world's leading climate scientists, puts it this way: “A 2.5°C global mean surface temperature rise is a disaster. It’s something that humanity has absolutely no evidence that we can cope with. There would be a 10-metre sea level rise. There would be a collapse of all the big biomes of planet Earth – the rainforest, many of the temperate forests, abrupt thawing of permafrost, and the complete collapse of marine biology. Over 1/3rd of the planet around the equatorial regions will be unhabitable because you will pass the threshold of health, which is around 30°C. It’s only some parts of the Sahara Desert today that has that kind of average temperature.” We've breached 1.5C this year - whether temporarily or permanently remains to be seen - so we're well on our way to this 2.5C threshold.
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Mar 28, 2024 16:07
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Some people are definitely saying "give up", mostly in a form to allow the individual person to not have to take on even the slightest of inconveniences to themselves for the betterment of the environment. Usually in the form of some larger thing they can't effect making up a larger percentage of the causes. ie "Well what's the point in me changing my diet/car/lifestyle when industry makes up 20%, we are still doomed"
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Mar 28, 2024 16:15
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Mega Comrade posted:Some people are definitely saying "give up", mostly in a form to allow the individual person to not have to take on even the slightest of inconveniences to themselves for the betterment of the environment. Usually in the form of some larger thing they can't effect making up a larger percentage of the causes. Are those "some people" in the thread with us right now?
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Mar 28, 2024 16:17
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It seems like thanks to COVID almost every single person older than myself that personally know if (I'm early 40s) have stopped caring about climate change all together because the plague inconvenienced them enough that they can't be bothered to make any other changes.
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Mar 28, 2024 16:21
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Mega Comrade posted:Some people are definitely saying "give up", mostly in a form to allow the individual person to not have to take on even the slightest of inconveniences to themselves for the betterment of the environment. Usually in the form of some larger thing they can't effect making up a larger percentage of the causes. It is more accurate to say that there is no point in changing their lifestyle when 90% of the people around them are unwilling to do the same. Without legislative action to curtail behaviors on a societal level, individual choices are in fact literally meaningless.
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Mar 28, 2024 16:21
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Professor Beetus posted:It is more accurate to say that there is no point in changing their lifestyle when 90% of the people around them are unwilling to do the same. Without legislative action to curtail behaviors on a societal level, individual choices are in fact literally meaningless. The few tiny postive changes we have made have all been down to individual choices. We can argue how useful EVs are but their surge in popularity wasn't from the government seeking it but from public demand. Same with meat free alternative foods. Saying it's meaningless is just false and a form of doomarism.
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Mar 28, 2024 16:27
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:Are those "some people" in the thread with us right now? I'm willing to bet there is a large number of people in this thread who have never once written to their government representative. Despite probably knowing how very small organised groups like the NRA hold huge power in government by just doing that. The idea that individual actions are meaningless just causes more inaction. There is no collective action without individual action. Mega Comrade fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Mar 28, 2024 |
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Mar 28, 2024 16:40
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cat botherer posted:Nobody is saying "give up," but most all anti-"doomer" stuff I see is concern-trolling when people call out how *bad* this problem is, and how little has been done about it. We are very much on a trajectory towards near-total collapse of the biosphere and our advanced industrial civilization. That's not doomerism, that's reality. There is hope, but it takes far more drastic action than we have done or is in the pipeline. It doesn't benefit the cause to minimize the problem. The interviewee isn't doing any of that.
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Mar 28, 2024 17:47
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Mega Comrade posted:The few tiny postive changes we have made have all been down to individual choices. How do you think those things became popular? Do you think a large number of people just woke up one day and said "hell yeah I'm gonna save the environment with my own personal choices?" No, they were driven by advertising and government actually has played a huge role because there are laws targeting the elimination of ICE vehicles as well as substantial government subsidies for car companies to do so. Car companies are getting ahead of the curve by providing more electric vehicle options and attempting to grab market share in the EV industry before it's too late and they're left behind. That also ignores that bigger and less efficient vehicles also seem to be having a surge in popularity which suggests that yes, more government intervention is needed to push those people into choosing EVs of simply stop giving them the option with more regulation. Wrt meat alternatives, people have been making the choice to go vegan for all kinds of reasons, not simply environmental ones. Animal cruelty and personal health are also major considerations for that market. These things are adjacent to seeing more and more options for "cruelty free" products and free range eggs and what have you e: and this is not even touching the point that neither of those things you mentioned are directly impacting the quality of people's lives. Part of the reason these "individual choices" are growing in popularity is that the development of them has advanced to the point where adopting an EV or eating plant based meat substitutes is not impacting their quality of life or inconveniencing them in any way. When things are needed that will impact quality of life or change status quo, you aren't going to see much individual adoption and change will need to be forced from the top down with legislation and regulation. Professor Beetus fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Mar 28, 2024 |
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Mar 28, 2024 18:09
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Mega Comrade posted:I'm willing to bet there is a large number of people in this thread who have never once written to their government representative. This is incredibly patronizing. "Things aren't getting better so I can only assume my fellow goons are not voting hard enough" is not the amazing slam dunk you think it is.
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Mar 28, 2024 18:15
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Cold on a Cob posted:This is incredibly patronizing. "Things aren't getting better so I can only assume my fellow goons are not voting hard enough" is not the amazing slam dunk you think it is. Statically most peoples only interaction with democracy is voting once every 4 years, and even then it's what? 60-65%. The people who do more is probably tiny. So unless goons are some sort of massive outlier then most of them have never contacted their representative. Yet we see organised groups that do do that hold huge power. Why is raising that point patronising?
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Mar 28, 2024 18:28
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Mega Comrade posted:I'm willing to bet there is a large number of people in this thread who have never once written to their government representative. Despite probably knowing how very small organised groups like the NRA hold huge power in government by just doing that. Not to kick a guy while he's buried under a well-earned dogpile, but are you really asserting that the NRA's successes are due to their letter writing? Volume of stamps consumed is the most salient difference between them and...uh, let's say the Sierra Club, I guess?
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Mar 28, 2024 18:30
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 The NRA hold power far in excess of their spending. Which I think is somewhat down to their increadibly efficient grassroot efforts.
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Mar 28, 2024 18:42
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Mega Comrade posted:Statically most peoples only interaction with democracy is voting once every 4 years, and even then it's what? 60-65%. The people who do more is probably tiny. You're making bad faith assertions about posters in a thread specifically geared towards this issue. My good faith stance would be to assume they are MORE engaged than the average with respect to climate change.
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Mar 28, 2024 18:44
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Mega Comrade posted:
I don't think I would claim that their success is 100% down to the dollar amount they spend on lobbying, but I also don't really see how that chart is supposed to support your point. Are you suggesting that if events brought the interests of the NRA into direct conflict with the interests of Exxon Mobil, it's the NRA who would prevail in that conflict? That's not the way I would place my bets, personally, but I don't know of any real test cases.
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Mar 28, 2024 18:56
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Looking at the direct cash spent on lobbying isn't the whole picture. The gun industry spends a lot on political and political adjacent advertising.
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Mar 28, 2024 19:00
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Mega Comrade posted:
Nice to see a well-researched post!
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Mar 28, 2024 19:29
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Cold on a Cob posted:You're making bad faith assertions about posters in a thread specifically geared towards this issue. My good faith stance would be to assume they are MORE engaged than the average with respect to climate change. You're probably right and its my own breed of doomerism over the inaction of society getting the better of me.
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Mar 28, 2024 19:36
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Mega Comrade posted:The point is valid. The world isn't going to end, it's just going to get very poo poo for a lot of people. Mega Comrade posted:I'm willing to bet there is a large number of people in this thread who have never once written to their government representative. Despite probably knowing how very small organised groups like the NRA hold huge power in government by just doing that. VOTE (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 29, 2024 00:42
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What if the answer requires some sort of fatalism? I'll admit I typically enjoy Adam Conover. His whole thing AFAIK is "guess what? common knowledge and status quo is bullshit orchestrated by capital/industry, sometimes with government collaboration." His body language through the interview told a story different than a text transcript would. It was a great example. It highlighted something. The stuff that woman said was somebody working within what we have to address this. And it came across laughable. This is dead, and despite us continuing and relying on it, it should be dead. Most of her solutions seemed to land as dead with the host as they did with the audience, despite "thats great I love it, next!" I do think there's something to be said for not giving up. Only fighting when you know you'll win is what bullies do. But we have to adjust what fighting looks like.
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Mar 29, 2024 02:44
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Jaxyon posted:The interviewee isn't doing any of that. Here's my more nuanced view. Without hope, it's stupid to worry about climate change. Fortunately, there is hope. It's an objective fact that if we decarbonize and more generally work towards un-loving the environment (or at least not accelerate the loving-up rate), we can avoid the worst effects of climate change and general biosphere collapse (rising temperature itself is far from the only critical threat we're facing). Nonetheless, humanity has not yet taken actions that could credibly could avoid this dreadful outcome. It's the Platonic ideal of the tragedy of the commons - occurring at individual, group, local, and national levels. From that, what should we do? Noble lies tend to backfire. I think it's better to make the message the actual unvarnished truth. Acting like our current token half-measures are anywhere near sufficient is false hope, and does not encourage the action that needs to be done. There's hope, but it absolutely relies on entirely remaking our system of production and consumption. This is fundamentally impossible in our current political system. It's a political-economic problem, requiring a political-economic solution (gay communism). The Overton window needs to be shifted so that people support radical action. I think this is less impossible than it sounds. Housing shortages, income inequality, enshittification, etc., are already making people disaffected with the current late capitalist system. Therein lies a massive potential for synergy. Things like affordable dense housing, public transit, more greenspace, sustainable agriculture, and shorter workweeks all would go a long way themselves towards mitigating biosphere collapse. They are also things that would make people's lives better. More free time and less social atomization would allow people to find joy through pro-social pursuits, as opposed to wealth accumulation and fetishization of commodities. Ultimately, this could lead to significant second-order effects on climate change. cat botherer fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Mar 29, 2024 |
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Mar 29, 2024 14:05
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https://x.com/LeonSimons8/status/1775363939192172779?s=20
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Apr 3, 2024 07:11
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I was reading this article and was very surprised to find out that the EU's per-capita GHG emissions currently seem to be lower than Brazil and Indonesia? https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/05/17/fact-check-is-europe-the-only-part-of-the-world-that-has-reduced-its-greenhouse-gas-emissi
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Apr 19, 2024 20:39
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khwarezm posted:I was reading this article and was very surprised to find out that the EU's per-capita GHG emissions currently seem to be lower than Brazil and Indonesia?
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Apr 19, 2024 20:55
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cat botherer posted:My guess is that Brazil and Indonesia, being major fossil fuel producers, have high methane outputs. Methane leakage has only begun to be taken seriously fairly recently. Seems to be it looking at some of the data I can find: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_greenhouse_gas_emissions] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-ghg-emissions Europe broadly has shifted to the middle of the pack on a worldwide scale, with the worst polluter being Ireland (god I am so loving embarrassed) where I think a lot of that comes from our over-reliance on agriculture and particularly cattle, and just generally lovely, inefficient infrastructure. Farmers here are too powerful and extremely resistant to policies trying to make a dent on our emissions. I'm always surprised by how well southern Europe does by these measures, as well as France and Britain, I suppose those nuclear plants helped a lot for the former. Meanwhile, Jesus Christ, what in god's name happened in Mongolia? Has there been a massive fossil fuel boom there recently? I know that's a big part of the reason Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan are also so bad but I haven't heard much about it happening in Mongolia.
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Apr 19, 2024 21:02
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