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The executives hated Snyder's working cut. Having Whedon reshoot so much of it then isn't really surprising.McCloud posted:The red skies was most likely because of its connection to the crisis and Whedon is a hack who thought that would make a great addition to the film. Okay so wait, he put a personally significant song for him and his daughter over a sex scene?
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Aug 23, 2020 23:02
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His daughter would've been like 12 when Watchmen came out so its also possible they didnt form a connection around the song until she was older.
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Aug 23, 2020 23:28
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It might not have become significant until near her death... Or yeah what Ghosthotel said.
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Aug 23, 2020 23:28
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Aphrodite posted:Okay so wait, he put a personally significant song for him and his daughter over a sex scene? Yeah I find it difficult to believe a teenage girl enjoys Leonard Cohen. Maybe it has significance for Snyder in regards to his Daughter (that's also separate from the reasons he put it in Watchmen)but the idea that they share this significance is a tough one to get around. Doesn't really matter, it's a poor song choice for the trailer in my opinion.
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Aug 23, 2020 23:35
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Sgt. Politeness posted:Doesn't really matter, it's a poor song choice for the trailer in my opinion. Again, for a normal trailer, yeah. But this trailer is basically nothing but a victory lap for Zack Snyder and his fans. The trailer probably isn’t going to convince anyone who wasn’t already interested, it exists to build hype among those already in the know. The kind of people who, if they didn’t know the song was personal to Snyder, would at the very least recognize it from Watchmen.
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Aug 23, 2020 23:39
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Sgt. Politeness posted:Yeah I find it difficult to believe a teenage girl enjoys Leonard Cohen. Maybe it has significance for Snyder in regards to his Daughter (that's also separate from the reasons he put it in Watchmen)but the idea that they share this significance is a tough one to get around. Doesn't really matter, it's a poor song choice for the trailer in my opinion. I mean the songs been covered like 20 times it's not exactly out of the realm of possibility that she had heard it before
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Aug 23, 2020 23:44
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The idea that Whedon’s work on Justice League looks bad because it was rushed is a little difficult to swallow.
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Aug 23, 2020 23:52
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I can't ultimately blame WB for trying to course correct on Snyder's output considering, y'know, Snyder's output..but doing it this drastically, when the film was by all rights basically finished, was just a recipe for disaster in every level. Disney did comparable stuff with Star Wars and that got us Solo and The Rise of Skywalker.
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Aug 23, 2020 23:55
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Sgt. Politeness posted:Yeah I find it difficult to believe a teenage girl enjoys Leonard Cohen. Maybe it has significance for Snyder in regards to his Daughter (that's also separate from the reasons he put it in Watchmen)but the idea that they share this significance is a tough one to get around. Doesn't really matter, it's a poor song choice for the trailer in my opinion. I know many teenage girls who like Leonard Cohen, he's been perennially popular with artsy people for decades. He's one of like a dozen 20th century poets whose books you can regularly find on the shelves of chain bookstores, he's really well known by all sorts of people.
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Aug 24, 2020 00:15
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Sgt. Politeness posted:Yeah I find it difficult to believe a teenage girl enjoys Leonard Cohen. Maybe it has significance for Snyder in regards to his Daughter (that's also separate from the reasons he put it in Watchmen)but the idea that they share this significance is a tough one to get around. Doesn't really matter, it's a poor song choice for the trailer in my opinion. If you're all excited about this movie you'll just be taking all those hallelujahs seriously. So it's actually a super on the nose choice. "Hallelujah! The movie I wanted to make! I got to make it! You get to see it!" Like, I don't want to. I feel like Snyders skill is almost entirely in recreating iconic panels, and things like flow from one scene to the next are secondary at best. But this song makes sense.
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Aug 24, 2020 00:23
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theironjef posted:If you're all excited about this movie you'll just be taking all those hallelujahs seriously. So it's actually a super on the nose choice. "Hallelujah! The movie I wanted to make! I got to make it! You get to see it!" Hallelujah is a song that’s a really popular choice for people who just looked at the title and ignored literally every other part of the song. E:just remembered the pentatonix put it on their Christmas album and chuckled to myself.
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Aug 24, 2020 00:28
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Codependent Poster posted:Snyder's shots look a lot better for the most part. It's an extremely basic story that doesn't really have anything fundamentally wrong with it. Bad guy shows up and can only be defeated through teamwork. Some of the dumber plot beats may or may not be different. Like I wonder if the last motherbox is still grabbed off screen. Maybe it is! Maybe it isn't
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Aug 24, 2020 00:30
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The fact that I keep seeing people hyping up promo shots of what is very clearly some kind of successor scene to the Knightmare from BvS is... troubling at best, considering how that scene served no purpose whatsoever in the movie it was in. e: Maybe the reshoots change the entire structure and plot of the movie! I doubt it, but maybe they do, and that scene will be vital to it. But based on the movie I saw, my immediate impression is that they're shoving in an extra two hours of stuff that would have been cut even if Snyder had stayed with the project.
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Aug 24, 2020 00:35
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Hallelujah is a song that’s a really popular choice for people who just looked at the title and ignored literally every other part of the song. Yes, a song for people whose investment in it goes as deep as an obsession with exclusively outward appearance would allow. It's almost completely perfect. John Wick of Dogs posted:It's an extremely basic story that doesn't really have anything fundamentally wrong with it. Bad guy shows up and can only be defeated through teamwork. Some of the dumber plot beats may or may not be different. Like I wonder if the last motherbox is still grabbed off screen. Maybe it is! Maybe it isn't I'll be very curious to see two things, both motherbox related. Will parademons still pop to leave convenient motherbox-shaped splatters on nearby chimneys, and will there be a crude drawing of motherboxes on the wall in the room where Batman and Aquaman conveniently meet? theironjef fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Aug 24, 2020 |
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Aug 24, 2020 00:44
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https://twitter.com/Winter/status/1297621403722645504?s=20 Context: Winter said he was sick of hearing "Hallelujah" used in trailers.
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Aug 24, 2020 01:59
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Did they put a hit out on him or what
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Aug 24, 2020 02:07
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It just seems like one of those things where someone isn't really aware of all the nerd drama, and makes a light and innocuous joke about not liking a song unaware that they've lit a beacon for hundreds of turbo-nerds to descend upon them.
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Aug 24, 2020 02:13
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site posted:I mean the songs been covered like 20 times it's not exactly out of the realm of possibility that she had heard it before Yeah, the Jeff Buckley version which is artsy teen girl branching out into "real" music 101 How Wonderful! posted:I know many teenage girls who like Leonard Cohen, he's been perennially popular with artsy people for decades. He's one of like a dozen 20th century poets whose books you can regularly find on the shelves of chain bookstores, he's really well known by all sorts of people. Ok, well our high school experiences were vastly different then.
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Aug 24, 2020 02:13
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Arist posted:The fact that I keep seeing people hyping up promo shots of what is very clearly some kind of successor scene to the Knightmare from BvS is... troubling at best, considering how that scene served no purpose whatsoever in the movie it was in. The knightmare scene teases the invasion of apokalyps, serves as an ominous warning of what happens when the JL falls against Darkseid (which also works as a comic book reference) and also shows that Bruce feels like he's an impotent messiah fighting for humanity. Maybe if it was put in the credits as a stinger it would have gotten less poo poo
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Aug 24, 2020 02:14
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Davros1 posted:https://twitter.com/Winter/status/1297621403722645504?s=20 Where's that one guy to get super mad at the accusation of snyderbros being real
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Aug 24, 2020 02:18
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Snyderbros are the new KHive
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Aug 24, 2020 02:23
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Ya know, I've been really hesitant on the sequel to Wonder Woman, but that trailer was pretty good actually. Still do not care for Trevor, but that's fine. Gal is really great as Diana. Wig looks like she's going to bring a lot to Cheetah. I'm into it. Snyderbros, man. It's...it's just a guy that isn't a fan of a song in trailers. Not an affront to mankind.
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Aug 24, 2020 02:43
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Man, leave Bill S. Preston, Esq. alone. He’s not part of this. He’s a civilian.
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Aug 24, 2020 02:46
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McCloud posted:By "the expanded" parts, do you mean the two whole hours? I do think it is entirely possible that the addition of twice the runtime can significantly alter the quality of the story being told, yes If you're interested in that story, then absolutely. But if you think that doing the death of Superman in the midst of trying to establish a new Batman and making it the reason a Justice League forms was a total mistake, then it will not improve it. I get it, and I hope this is the better version of the thing everyone got for people who are excited about it. But I think the biggest problem with a lot of the online push behind the Snyder Cut is simply that there is a large and vocal contingency of fans (not all of them) who straight up think the reason audiences failed to connect with this saga was simply because the shots weren't epic enough. If you're making a movie for a fanbase, great. But those fans better turn the hell out and replace the general audience of adults and parents that got bored or felt really weird about watching people sob in slow motion about the superhero they remember pretending to be in the yard as a little kid. They didn't. I've been rewatching the DC movies in order, and I remembered being a lot more favorable to Man of Steel and BvS in theaters and on video, and thought the JL theatrical cut was fun even if it was goofy and cheap. I'm almost back up to Justice League, so it'll be interesting to see how a rewatch fares, but MoS and BvS all these years later were pretty miserable experiences at times, and having seen the "extended edition" of BvS, it made things clearer but no less loving stupid. That's what I'm expecting out of the snyder cut. They are just not operating on a tonal wavelength that is remotely compelling to me. Every time DC or Marvel, in any medium, start getting laughably self-serious instead of genuinely dark or gritty, I check out. But I'm excited to see more of the Cyborg story and a lot more Flash stuff. It'll be worth it for that if nothing else. And to see actors clearly not being forced to do unenergetic reshoots. Space_Butler fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Aug 24, 2020 |
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Aug 24, 2020 02:47
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I wonder if Miller still runs like a tool in the Snyder cut.
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Aug 24, 2020 02:49
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McCloud posted:Maybe if it was put in the credits as a stinger it would have gotten less poo poo Maybe if Bruce was nodding off and the Flashback happened, and some Temporal Speedforce Lightning hit him as Barry reached for him, triggering the vision? Something to clean up the sequencing.
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Aug 24, 2020 03:02
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Aphrodite posted:The character’s second most well known line? Yea, but in the context of that scene is pretty gross.
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Aug 24, 2020 03:09
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Sgt. Politeness posted:Yeah I find it difficult to believe a teenage girl enjoys Leonard Cohen. Maybe it has significance for Snyder in regards to his Daughter (that's also separate from the reasons he put it in Watchmen)but the idea that they share this significance is a tough one to get around. Doesn't really matter, it's a poor song choice for the trailer in my opinion. Are we really questioning a dude saying a song meant a lot to him and his deceased daughter?
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Aug 24, 2020 03:20
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Roth posted:Are we really questioning a dude saying a song meant a lot to him and his deceased daughter? 
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Aug 24, 2020 03:25
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I remember I didn't know the gently caress what was going on when I first watched it. Didn't know who the flying dudes were or what the symbol meant, and I didn't know that the guy in the portal screaming was meant to be the Flash. The dream sequence is never brought up again, the information that Batman gets from it "Lois is the key" has no effect on his actions going forward, and his fears about Superman have been communicated beforehand and the campy mad max riff just makes it funny. I guess if you're familiar with the Justice League comics, maybe it was cool, but I wasn't. It probably should of been at the end of credits, as it is seemingly just sequel set up.
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Aug 24, 2020 03:26
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Davros1 posted:https://twitter.com/Winter/status/1297621403722645504?s=20 I agree 💯 with Winters here. That song is so freaking ubiquitous that it would probably end up in a Quiznos commercial.
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Aug 24, 2020 03:31
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Karloff posted:I remember I didn't know the gently caress what was going on when I first watched it. Didn't know who the flying dudes were or what the symbol meant, and I didn't know that the guy in the portal screaming was meant to be the Flash. The dream sequence is never brought up again, the information that Batman gets from it "Lois is the key" has no effect on his actions going forward, and his fears about Superman have been communicated beforehand and the campy mad max riff just makes it funny. I guess if you're familiar with the Justice League comics, maybe it was cool, but I wasn't. Yeah, the whole thing felt like the “Martha!” sequence to me; something someone thought was cool, but shouldn’t have made it out of the first few drafts of the script.
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Aug 24, 2020 03:32
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The problem is really that the Knightmare is an incredibly long and involved sequence that simultaneously has nothing to do with anything, it's just Bruce Wayne having a bad dream. It's not actually indicative of any potential threat Superman poses to the world or even meaningfully founded in Bruce's fears about Superman (unless Superman has parademons now), and apparently it's supposed to represent Darkseid, not Superman, so the entire thing intentionally has nothing to do with the story of the movie you're actually watching. If it's supposed to be the impetus for escalating against Superman, it's an astoundingly flimsy motivation to hang that on. If it's indeed trying to depict Bruce's messiah complex, then you could have given the audience that in a much better and more economical way if the movie hasn't shown that already. It's a completely empty comics reference for its own sake, trying to evoke imagery but not actually doing the work to have it mean anything to the audience. And then to add insult to injury, the scene isn't even good separate from the rest of the film. There's a long take action scene in the middle that's just weightless, and because this sequence is a complete non-sequitur from the story there's no real conflict or investment to salvage from it. It's just a huge waste of time. Arist fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Aug 24, 2020 |
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Aug 24, 2020 03:36
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Sgt. Politeness posted:Yeah I find it difficult to believe a teenage girl enjoys Leonard Cohen. Maybe it has significance for Snyder in regards to his Daughter (that's also separate from the reasons he put it in Watchmen)but the idea that they share this significance is a tough one to get around. Doesn't really matter, it's a poor song choice for the trailer in my opinion. Dude, Cohen was HUUUUUGE in the mid to late 90s because of Pump Up the Volume. I was 14 when it hit and radio stations had Everybody Knows in constant rotation along with the cover by Concrete Blonde.
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Aug 24, 2020 04:14
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Sgt. Politeness posted:Warner Bros was in such a panic after Suicide Squad and Batman v. Superman only did good and not phenomenally which is insane to me. Big media companies love overreacting. See also: Disney's entire handling of Star Wars. e: whoops didn't realize there was another page where someone already mentioned this Blockhouse fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Aug 24, 2020 |
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Aug 24, 2020 04:19
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Roth posted:Are we really questioning a dude saying a song meant a lot to him and his deceased daughter? To his face/twitter? No. In this thread? Yeah. As said earlier the "Hallelujah" refrain is on the nose for the arrival of his much awaited biblical text, he's used the song before (wasn't First We Take Manhattan in the credits too), and it 100% sounds like a loving line. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to his personal family struggles (I really do) but that claim smells like PR bullshit to me. I also question anytime a politician is outraged, anytime an athlete or rapper gives thanks to God, and anytime an actor gives an acceptance speech. I'm cynical. Edit: Rhyno posted:Dude, Cohen was HUUUUUGE in the mid to late 90s because of Pump Up the Volume. I was 14 when it hit and radio stations had Everybody Knows in constant rotation along with the cover by Concrete Blonde. I remember hearing Concrete Blonde all the time, and Jeff Buckley. Leonard Cohen has only ever been "huge" on these forums, you're projecting you bunch a weirdos! Sgt. Politeness fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Aug 24, 2020 |
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Aug 24, 2020 04:23
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FilthyImp posted:Don't you realize teen girls are only into TikTok, Lil Yachty, and Billie Eilish? They can't possibly listen to Leonard Cohen and even if they did it would be the most shallow, stereotypical "artsy teen" thing ever Chill out, I don't think anything in the conversation so far warrants this kind of hostility. Anyway I think that no matter what you think about Snyder it's safe to say he has a pretty significant fondness for Leonard Cohen and I also think it's the most natural and nicest thing in the world when parents share music they love with their kids. This is a weird derail, just like every derail that involves his dead child, and I'd like to gently ask you all to drop it because I think bringing a dead child into the discussion is uncomfortable. How Wonderful! fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Aug 24, 2020 |
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Aug 24, 2020 04:24
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Sgt. Politeness posted:To his face/twitter? No. 
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Aug 24, 2020 04:32
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Sgt. Politeness posted:To his face/twitter? No. They literally had a day long tribute to Cohen on the radio when he died here. He's a literal musical legend and one if the most respected lyricists of all time.
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Aug 24, 2020 04:36
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How Wonderful! posted:Chill out, I don't think anything in the conversation so far warrants this kind of hostility. In any event, I was poking fun at the idea that teens don't have Spotify and can't routinely explore music outside of their perceived age-bracket. Hell, I grew up with Herb Alpert and a bunch of other 70s bands because of my mother's record collection. I was the weird kid listening to classic rock when Marilyn Manson was dropping new albums. And that's before the sum of all music ever was available in economic and convenient means.
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Aug 24, 2020 04:40
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