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jit bull transpile posted:"Sismas" had some unfortunate homophones sadly. I didn't catch that until you pointed it out... "Cis-mas" is kinda  You'd hope someone involved would be trans-aware enough to catch that.
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Dec 10, 2018 18:10
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I figure he knows what he's doing and joking with it
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Dec 10, 2018 19:18
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"Did we all just have the same dream?" - Jasmine Masters, who was not in the dream sequence
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Dec 10, 2018 21:01
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Pellisworth posted:I didn't catch that until you pointed it out... "Cis-mas" is kinda Take it one step further and have mass instead of mas for unsettling catholic undertones 
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Dec 10, 2018 21:28
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Gelf posted:Take it one step further and have mass instead of mas for unsettling catholic undertones I get the point you're trying to make, but this isn't a show about religion or Catholic-related things. It is a show that's heavily about LGBTQ+ stuff, so "Sismas" sounding exactly like "Cis-mas" is a bit of an oops.
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Dec 10, 2018 21:35
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Pellisworth posted:You'd hope someone involved would be trans-aware enough to catch that.  They don't exactly have the shiniest track record on not-putting-their-feet-in-their-mouths w/r/t trans stuff, though it's been improving I guess. I think it's a stretch to say that they should have avoided "sis-mas" considering how often "sis" is used in the show, though. warez fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Dec 10, 2018 |
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Dec 10, 2018 22:38
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warez posted:
S2 reunion is the cringiest episode of the show bc of this wrt sonique, like I’m constantly amazed how awkward and gross this show is without a trace of malice in early seasons, like a weird uncle calling you queer and you know from context he’s being supportive but it just doesn’t sound like it
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Dec 10, 2018 23:18
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Fleta Mcgurn posted:Why the gently caress is this poo poo not called RuPaul's Slay Belles? iirc Ru already has a Christmas album named that from a couple years ago
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Dec 10, 2018 23:30
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Cis-mas: problematic Fish: well that's cause vaginas all smell am i rite fellas
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Dec 10, 2018 23:36
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Eej posted:Cis-mas: problematic There is a lot of older gay slang that is pretty problematic when you want to be trans inclusive. I usually just let it go because old gay dudes don't generally have bad intentions but as someone said above, rupaul has a rapsheet
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Dec 10, 2018 23:55
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Eej posted:Cis-mas: problematic The longer I watch the show the more distasteful fish is.
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Dec 11, 2018 00:35
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it's been lovely this whole time but ok I dunno, the general misogyny in the gay community is always gonna be gross but it's not exactly gonna go anywhere.
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Dec 11, 2018 00:45
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Im just saying, I don't know what makes gay misogyny different from transphobia cause I don't think we should give one a free pass over the other, maybe I'm just too idealistic Also finally got around to finishing Season 6, which was interrupted by marathoning The Expanse (very good) and aside from Laganja being a fragile human being and Darienne being a hatemonger that was a really good season even if it was far more the Bianca show more than Season 8 was the Bob show.
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Dec 11, 2018 01:24
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Eej posted:Im just saying, I don't know what makes gay misogyny different from transphobia cause I don't think we should give one a free pass over the other, maybe I'm just too idealistic I agree with you, but the reason I said fish is transphobic is because it specifically is short for "fishy" as in "that girl looks fishy she might be a man". It's a triple entendre. Truly a casserole of prejudice.
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Dec 11, 2018 02:06
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jit bull transpile posted:I agree with you, but the reason I said fish is transphobic is because it specifically is short for "fishy" as in "that girl looks fishy she might be a man". It's a triple entendre. Truly a casserole of prejudice. Pretty sure it's more tied to the misogynist trope of vaginas smelling like fish.
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Dec 11, 2018 02:29
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Carlton Banks Teller posted:Pretty sure it's more tied to the misogynist trope of vaginas smelling like fish. It's both. Was I unclear?
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Dec 11, 2018 03:13
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jit bull transpile posted:I agree with you, but the reason I said fish is transphobic is because it specifically is short for "fishy" as in "that girl looks fishy she might be a man". It's a triple entendre. Truly a casserole of prejudice. It "specifically" isn't short for that. That's not where it comes from.
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Dec 11, 2018 03:32
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Carlton Banks Teller posted:It "specifically" isn't short for that. That's not where it comes from. I have literally heard people referred to as fishy in that manner at real live drag shows
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Dec 11, 2018 04:00
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jit bull transpile posted:I have literally heard people referred to as fishy in that manner at real live drag shows I mean, I'm not surprised that people are bigots in ignorant and ahistorical ways, but the term's origins are specifically in anatomical misogyny.  Not gonna derail about it further though, so carry on.
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Dec 11, 2018 04:09
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You either die a Shero, or you live long enough to see yourself become problematic.
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Dec 11, 2018 04:25
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     Oh Vixen, as much as I want to love you you've made it p impossible since season 10 ended. Her little thing over Lady Gaga a while ago (she went on about A Star is Born being a republican movie/for Trump supporters or some poo poo and tried saying Gaga's never done anything for the LGBT community or other minorities and ???) was such a reach it hurt MY shoulders tbh, but this is just ... idk. Crass. Drag Manila all you want or w/e, but bringing Sahara into it was just dirty. Manila's response is all class w/ some shade at the end tho A+:    e: also Shangela responded to Jasmine's claims of her bein unprofessional af during the special https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uT6kZBAmns esperterra fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Dec 11, 2018 |
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Dec 11, 2018 06:27
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The best part of that is finding out that Holi-slay was filmed in August and Latrice got married in September so she had her "I can't, I'm married" line prepared for the future
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Dec 11, 2018 13:05
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esperterra posted:
Wowsers. Vixen is really off in another reality at this point. Everything is a slight in her eyes.
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Dec 11, 2018 18:38
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Ooookayyyyyyyy wowwwwwwww The Vixen was good TV, but I that's all I can say on their behalf. What a lovely, lovely way to act.
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Dec 11, 2018 18:41
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Yikes.
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Dec 11, 2018 20:51
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the escape goat posted:it's been lovely this whole time but ok I was just going for the double entendre honestly.
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Dec 11, 2018 21:30
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That just makes me love Manila even more tbh.
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Dec 11, 2018 21:47
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I mean, she spelled "Kevin Hart" wrong, for poo poo's sake.
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Dec 11, 2018 21:51
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To be contrarian for a minute, I grew up in a ghetto not that different from Vixens and I have diagnosed ptsd as a result. One of my symptoms is that I reflexively distrust the motivations of other people toward me. I get nice constructive criticism and I just want to melt down because it fees like they're coming after me. As some of you can likely tell sometimes I do better at catching myself than others. That I can manage at all is the result of a lot of therapy and if I didn't have access to that I might behave a lot like her All that said, obviously I'm not just gonna label someone with mental health condition over the internet. This is all more to say that I can understand and empathize with her reactions to poo poo even though I understand that they're bad reactions Basically she has my empathy but not necessarily sympathy.
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Dec 12, 2018 00:46
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Nah, I'm with you there. I don't ever want to lessen Vixen's anger toward the world, because I'm sure it's more than rightfully earned. I just think it's unfortunate how she expresses that anger more often than not, especially when she's (usually) making some pretty good points about race, etc. And she's young yet. I'm hoping she'll grow and learn a better way to use her words and her voice without it seeming like she's attacking people for very small slights. But I get her defensiveness, I really do. Honestly, my biggest issue with Vixen's activism in general is she often seems to be coming from a place of wanting to blame people for the colour of their own skin, which is kind of ironic, I guess. As earned as her hurt and anger is, I kind of draw a line at her defending people who've done wrong just because they're black, or lashing out at people who have done good but she perceives to be wrong just because they're not black, if that makes sense. Like her whole Lady Gaga thing was basically just her saying that because Gaga is white, and she has a lot of white fans (and because A Star is Born has country elements, thus republican/white) that she's worse than Beyonce and why aren't people championing Beyonce. Which is ridiculous b/c Beyonce is one of the most championed people on the planet lmao. But her whole point was basically 'who cares if Gaga has done good for the LGBT community or minority communities b/c she's white and has white fans'. Then a couple days later she turned around to try and backtrack it, and literally went 'lol i was just pretending to see how the sheep would react'. It's very much that thing she said on her season of basically living for white tears. I understand it-- I get why she feels that way. But I just don't think I can respect her approach any more. Race relations in general is a giant issue, especially in our community, and she's so often got the right idea but I feel like she just needs to learn to look a little deeper. Just because someone who isn't a PoC (and I don't mean Manila specifically here, b/c she's obvs mixed race lol) criticizes, say, Kevin Hart for lovely things he said in the past doesn't mean that they're racist or would ignore lovely things said by someone whose skin looks more like their own. If that makes any sense. idk I'm high.
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Dec 12, 2018 01:14
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I think you brought that up during S10 as well and its a really good point. It definitely made me reconsider her since I usually have a strong knee-jerk reaction to overly melodramatic and combative reality television personalities. In my mind that exchange just really sucks because I agree with her point about Kevin Hart. Homophobia sucks and is bad but as a bit of a comedian myself, I think it's an insult to both theart and the artist to take offensive statements at face value regardless of whether it's merely meant to be funny or reflective of something deeper about the person. Comedy is meant to be the anti-tone police so it's pretty drat bad to me if they want a good comedian, just not an offensive one. As far as racism goes, well poo poo. It's the Oscars. Who's surprised? I will of course be pissed if they pick a replacement along the lines of Tim Allen. The Sahara stuff though...that's just ugly. Even if we assume untreated ptsd, do you think Vixen's reaction to that quip was even as defensible as the devil's advocacy? That exchange went from reasonable to  really, really fast.
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Dec 12, 2018 01:18
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The thing with defending Kevin Hart is, unfortunately, as far as I understand it he's fairly recently refused to apologize for saying he'd be angry if his son ended up being gay. If this had been a situation where people dug up old tweets that had already been apologized for, or if he issued an apology after they came out, then I'd be on board with thinking #cancelling him is stupid. But he unfortunately doesn't seem to have changed his stance on it. And I don't even think he's homophobic. It's just a weird thing where he's fine with other people being gay as long as they aren't his children. Which, yeah, is homophobic in its own sense but I mean I don't think he believes all gay people should burn in hell or anything. It's a weird situation. e: the ugliest bit of the Sahara thing is her flat out saying 'I did it to hurt Manila, and if I hurt Manila I'm glad' which is just ... drat girl. bringing up someone's dead partner as a kneejerk reaction to feeling hurt/attacked is one thing, but then doubling down during your 'apology' to say you meant every word of it is hosed up
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Dec 12, 2018 01:22
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esperterra posted:And I don't even think he's homophobic. It's just a weird thing where he's fine with other people being gay as long as they aren't his children. Which, yeah, is homophobic in its own sense but I mean I don't think he believes all gay people should burn in hell or anything. It's a weird situation. People can be SO WEIRD when it comes to that kind of thing. My father is kind of a bigot (has soft spots for gay people he's worked with in the theatrical industry but otherwise makes a face about it) yet when I told him I'm bi he said "HELL YEAH I always wanted another daughter!" Blind spots will never make sense.
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Dec 12, 2018 01:32
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It's still a form of homophobia, tbh. My parents were OK with gay people in the abstract but the second I told them I was bi they suddenly had to confront that it's not just some random thing that happens to other people and will never interact with you; and it took them a long time to get over that. It's a lot easier to be okay with something if it's not impacting your life in any way. So him saying he's fine with gay people but he'd be pissed if his son was gay just tells me that he's not fine with gay people, he just thinks he is because he doesn't have to think about it.
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Dec 12, 2018 02:55
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curiousTerminal posted:So him saying he's fine with gay people but he'd be pissed if his son was gay just tells me that he's not fine with gay people, he just thinks he is because he doesn't have to think about it.
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Dec 12, 2018 03:07
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I don't think social justice for black people involves forgiving Kevin Hart for homophobic statements. More than one problem can exist at the same time. Being one type of oppressed isn't a get out of jail card for making GBS threads on a different oppressed group. Otherwise it would be impossible to, say, criticize the intense misogyny engrained in Tyler Perry's work without being racist and that's just silly. Black people are oppressed, Kevin Hart said inappropriate things, they're both true. What is a worthwhile conversation is whether the Oscars would have reacted to a white person having homophobic comments as harshly. I'd say no, but to me the answer is to hold white people more accountable, not the reverse. We're not talking about mandatory minimums for drugs here, we're talking about whether you should get to enjoy the privileges of celebrity while perpetuating a harmful culture. This is the exact kind of nuance that is lost on the Vixen because she views any comment about a person who is black as a racial assault.
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Dec 12, 2018 03:13
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Very nicely said! Go give Vixen some tips lmao
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Dec 12, 2018 03:14
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esperterra posted:Very nicely said! She won't listen, I'm a race traitor because my mom is white
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Dec 12, 2018 03:31
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The first 15 minutes of the premiere is up on VH1.
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Dec 12, 2018 05:04
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Must... resist...!!!
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Dec 12, 2018 05:07
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