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Victory Position posted:you don't really have to, as they aren't really Christian in any form or function, just aesthetic and lip service White right wing evangelicals are the largest religious block in this country. Faith motivates them far more than your average urban Unitarian
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Dec 7, 2018 18:30
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Where is the incentive to fix the world when we've already been told that the world won't be fixed until Jesus comes back?
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Dec 7, 2018 18:33
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Dreddout posted:White right wing evangelicals are the largest religious block in this country. Faith motivates them far more than your average urban Unitarian I am not sure they can actually be considered a faith community as much as white nationalists with boring sundays
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Dec 7, 2018 18:35
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General Dog posted:Where is the incentive to fix the world when we've already been told that the world won't be fixed until Jesus comes back? this is some sola fide bullshit
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Dec 7, 2018 18:36
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Dreddout posted:White right wing evangelicals are the largest religious block in this country. Faith motivates them far more than your average urban Unitarian I ought to be more specific not Christian in the form or function that we'd recognize as being recognizably Christian (charity, forgiveness, compassion), but are united around the like forms and congregate within like functions that are visibly Christian (churches, services, scripture) you're drat right about faith being their sword, shield, and soil though; I mean poo poo, there are folks that go their entire lives without leaving that bubble and it's all the easier, what with poo poo like the New Apostolic's charge of "conquering the Seven Hills" through media conglomeration and social isolation
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Dec 7, 2018 18:36
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i went to a catholic high school with 1 mandatory religion class per semester, but one of the courses assigned a book that was like, well actually the "kingdom of heaven" jesus was going on about had nothing to do with afterlife and was just his rules for a socialist utopia
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Dec 7, 2018 18:38
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StashAugustine posted:this is some sola fide bullshit Yes Protestantism is the largest form of Christianity in America To the average religious American, Jesus is an imaginary friend who already agrees with you on everything. Since you're relationship with God is entirely personal no one else can convince you what "real" christianity is. Trying to get evangelicals to embrace liberation theology is like trying to debate Ben Shapiro into being a leftist
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Dec 7, 2018 18:39
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Lol dude okay you obviously don't have anything but online experience with these communities but there are so many christians who are aware of the commands to be good people and to help their neighbors so to speak but they feel trapped because the rhetoric they hear repeatedly tells them that there is a war going on for the souls of unborn babies and for the heteronormative nuclear family and so they vote a certain way purely for the faith they hold twisted by indoctrination and this is obvious when you get many of them to talk candidly about their beliefs. If those faithful heard a sincerely Christian message that advocated from the left, so many people would go for it. They're right wing because their pastors tell them thats what good christians do. Change the pastor, change the pastor's message, the congregations follow. Christian socialism could mobilize previously unreachable people for the left but the problems are dealing with people who think it's impossible and would likely reject their New brethren anyway for not being leftist enough or whatever.
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Dec 7, 2018 18:46
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if "religion is the opiate of the masses" maybe it's better to treat the masses as targets for potential rehabilitation than label them all as degenerate lost causes
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Dec 7, 2018 18:48
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basic hitler posted:Lol dude okay you obviously don't have anything but online experience with these communities but there are so many christians who are aware of the commands to be good people and to help their neighbors so to speak but they feel trapped because the rhetoric they hear repeatedly tells them that there is a war going on for the souls of unborn babies and for the heteronormative nuclear family and so they vote a certain way purely for the faith they hold twisted by indoctrination and this is obvious when you get many of them to talk candidly about their beliefs. How do you square this with the decline of the more liberal, mainline denominations arriving much faster (in terms of membership) than the Evangelical church? The market has already rejected liberal theology.
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Dec 7, 2018 18:48
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basic hitler posted:Lol dude okay you obviously don't have anything but online experience with these communities but there are so many christians who are aware of the commands to be good people and to help their neighbors so to speak but they feel trapped because the rhetoric they hear repeatedly tells them that there is a war going on for the souls of unborn babies and for the heteronormative nuclear family and so they vote a certain way purely for the faith they hold twisted by indoctrination and this is obvious when you get many of them to talk candidly about their beliefs. Dreddout sort of blew past the Baptists, Methodists, and Presbyters and got straight to the heart of the matter in that the largest religious population in the US consists of nondenominational Evangelicals who go to a specific house of worship staffed by a specific person of faith peddling their specific variant of Christianity
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Dec 7, 2018 18:54
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General Dog posted:How do you square this with the decline of the more liberal, mainline denominations arriving much faster (in terms of membership) than the Evangelical church? The market has already rejected liberal theology. Liberal churches tend to eschew fiery or showy rhetoric. Evangelical churches do everything they can to leave an impressoon during worships and sermons The decline of liberal doctrine in faith is largely the failure of the older denominations to keep up with engagement. The way non denominational/evangelical churches are run is basically as a in weekly entertainment show with intense propaganda and every psycholpgical trick the pastor can think of with the barest bones sprinkling of christian theology. Its super dishonest as they use it but there's no reason the left can't appropriate the techniques to their own better, more honest, and more true to Christianity itself message.
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Dec 7, 2018 18:54
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More to the point I think a lot of liberal churches are perceived (and not entirely wrongly) as just shallow self affirmation, which is still better that self affirmation plus racial and sexual hatred
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Dec 7, 2018 19:16
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I dont see why we should believe faith is essential to a moral argument If someone is only convinced something is ethical because god says so they are already a morally crippled person.
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Dec 7, 2018 19:27
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Plank Walker posted:if "religion is the opiate of the masses" maybe it's better to treat the masses as targets for potential rehabilitation than label them all as degenerate lost causes and that is why they should be encouraged to drop their superstitious garbage and replace it with marxist science which is infinitely superior in every way, including spiritually you don’t treat an alcoholic with even more alcohol that’s nonsense
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Dec 7, 2018 19:27
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General Dog posted:Where is the incentive to fix the world when we've already been told that the world won't be fixed until Jesus comes back? most people clean their houses before guests arrive
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Dec 7, 2018 19:29
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Mel Mudkiper posted:when has there ever been a time when faith hasn't been subservient to power before constantine got to it and Christianity was anti-Roman as gently caress
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Dec 7, 2018 19:41
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basic hitler posted:If someone made a party or coalition built on advancing socialism with a christian core you'd probably have the start of a serious left wing revolution in the united states and probably start making serious loving headway in places liberals write off as lost causes for non-klansmen but seriously if someone comes along who can preach and live it, Christian socialism is a potential key to pushing America left but sadly the extant left can't seemingly do anything but try to one up each other with contempt and sick burns for faith and faithful. also Damnation on netflix is pretty dope and yeah i agree
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Dec 7, 2018 19:42
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General Dog posted:The market has already rejected liberal theology. ya ya if by the market you mean US funded death squads doing genocide in South America
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Dec 7, 2018 19:45
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Moridin920 posted:before constantine got to it and Christianity was anti-Roman as gently caress That was way after Paul normalized and defanged it though
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Dec 7, 2018 19:46
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If you're rejecting Paul, you're rejecting Christianity; if it was something different before Paul got to it, it's long gone.
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Dec 7, 2018 20:00
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whatever gently caress Paul then too it's not like that poo poo hasn't been changed before let's trump up a new "prophet" and unify all the Abrahamic religions like in that Arthur C Clarke novel and then unfuck our poo poo before Poseidon does it for us Sweep aside all the bullshit and look at the text and base a leftist message on that. Rural Americans don't know the finer points of theology anyway. They're not going to bust out St. Augustine quotes or some poo poo.
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Dec 7, 2018 20:01
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General Dog posted:If you're rejecting Paul, you're rejecting Christianity; Hell yeah
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Dec 7, 2018 20:04
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Dreddout posted:Yes Protestantism is the largest form of Christianity in America THIS IS WHAT SOLA SCRIPTURA GOT US!
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Dec 7, 2018 20:05
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It's just what poo poo tons of capitalist propaganda have got us tbh
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Dec 7, 2018 20:06
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KiteAuraan posted:THIS IS WHAT SOLA SCRIPTURA GOT US! Protestants have the ethical consistency of loving children while Catholics just are loving children
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Dec 7, 2018 20:07
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Moridin920 posted:also Damnation on netflix is pretty dope and yeah i agree rip this good show, cancelled for reasons that are extremely obvious to anyone who watches it
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Dec 7, 2018 20:08
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Tastykake posted:rip this good show, cancelled for reasons that are extremely obvious to anyone who watches it yeah I'm loving amazed it even aired to be honest 97% liked this show on Google and 90% audience score on RT lol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penny_auction_(foreclosure) quote:A penny auction is a collective effort by a farmer’s neighbors to help the farmer keep the farm after it has been foreclosed. It was practiced during the Great Depression in the United States. The neighbors would gather in large numbers at the auction of the farm and bid very low prices on the farm and its contents while intimidating other bidders. In the end, the bank that owned the farm would get whatever was bid and the neighbors would return the farm and its contents to the farmer.[1] 
Moridin920 has issued a correction as of 20:10 on Dec 7, 2018 |
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Dec 7, 2018 20:08
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General Dog posted:If you're rejecting Paul, you're rejecting Christianity; if it was something different before Paul got to it, it's long gone. This absolutist poo poo is dumb as gently caress and only makes sense if you believe in biblical infallibility. Jesus and Paul are at odds more often than they're as one and if a Christian says they'd rather listen to their savior over someone who wrote a couple of letters then that doesn't strip them of their faith. More people should be critical of the value of the epistles and revelation tbh
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Dec 7, 2018 20:43
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Dreddout posted:White right wing evangelicals are the largest religious block in this country. Faith motivates them far more than your average urban Unitarian Racism is what motivates right wing "evangelicals"
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Dec 8, 2018 01:14
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Ok but they aren't just born weirdo racists dude the racism is part of the narrative they are sold by capitalists as to why they aren't doing better themselves or as to why people are hosed up in this supposedly rich country. There is no victory that involves writing off vast swathes of the population as shittier people and thus fundamentally unsalvageable.
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Dec 8, 2018 01:18
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General Dog posted:Where is the incentive to fix the world when we've already been told that the world won't be fixed until Jesus comes back? There is no incentive to fix the world; there is incentive to rectify your life and your actions, as a caretaker of your own soul. If your charitable actions make the world a better place, great. If you are charitable and righteous but you live in an unrighteous society, you are not held responsible for their actions. Maybe you should've been a prophet though.
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Dec 8, 2018 03:24
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basic hitler posted:Lol dude okay you obviously don't have anything but online experience with these communities but there are so many christians who are aware of the commands to be good people and to help their neighbors so to speak but they feel trapped because the rhetoric they hear repeatedly tells them that there is a war going on for the souls of unborn babies and for the heteronormative nuclear family and so they vote a certain way purely for the faith they hold twisted by indoctrination and this is obvious when you get many of them to talk candidly about their beliefs. Pastors preaching liberalism and left-wing politics in the pulpit has already been tried and done. The congregations of the episcopals and the UCC are dwindling, they are in a seemingly unstoppable death spiral. Methodists are close behind, along with leftist Lutherans.
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Dec 8, 2018 03:26
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Essentially organized religion is inherently reactionary and has to be dragged kicking and screaming into a new paradigm. See the modern history of the Catholic church failing to weasle it's way out of capitalism with distributism. People who are personally religious but don't attend church regularly are the majority of Americans and they don't need to be motivated with religious arguments, when material arguments exist. America is becoming less religious overtime it didn't work for William Jennings Bryan back when religiousity was much higher, so why do you think it would work now? basic hitler posted:Liberal churches tend to eschew fiery or showy rhetoric. Evangelical churches do everything they can to leave an impressoon during worships and sermons Liberal churches are also attended almost exclusively by geriatrics today Things were different in the 60's when the black community only had churches as a place to organize. Nowadays church attendence is on a death spiral. http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/attendance-at-religious-services/ The churches of america are simply not where people are at anymore. Trying to organize around a dying institution is pure romanticism. Moreover the people most sympathetic to Leftism are the ones attending church the least. Why focus on a declining reactionary demographic when you have fertile soil for a stronger base? Also stop acting like "honesty" matters in religion, at the highest practical level there is no "real" Christianity of any sort. For every passage you can point to of Jesus being a crypto communist I can point to five that say slavery is a okay. At the material level it's been a form of societal control since Nicea. Dr Pepper posted:Racism is what motivates right wing "evangelicals"
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Dec 8, 2018 03:48
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basic hitler posted:This absolutist poo poo is dumb as gently caress and only makes sense if you believe in biblical infallibility. Jesus and Paul are at odds more often than they're as one and if a Christian says they'd rather listen to their savior over someone who wrote a couple of letters then that doesn't strip them of their faith. Hey, a buncha guys in AD 1000 got together and decided that poo poo is canon, so it's as canon to the Bible as Jedi Rocks is canon to Star Wars.
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Dec 8, 2018 04:10
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Christianity is insanely capitalistic. It's got slaves and everything. It's super easy to get a religious exemption card too so you don't have to pay sales tax on food.
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Dec 8, 2018 04:16
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john hosed it up at the end. having the crazy woman-hating dude write the last chapters was a mistake.
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Dec 8, 2018 04:17
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Christianity is not compatible with a leftist society and must be abolished.
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Dec 8, 2018 04:28
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General Dog posted:People asked Jesus if it was moral to pay their taxes to Rome since Rome did so many immoral things and he pretty much said, yeah earthly institutions pretty much are what they are, give to them what they're asking of you and give to me what I'm asking of you. that passage gets misread a lot. it was explicitly a trap question and so his answer is ambiguous. 'you should pay caesar back in his own coin'
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Dec 8, 2018 05:43
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capitalism is incompatible with all spiritual traditions hth
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Dec 8, 2018 05:45
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