Three Vermlings in a trenchcoat - Let's Play Gloomhaven, together!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > Three Vermlings in a trenchcoat - Let's Play Gloomhaven, together!

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dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Zulily Zoetrope posted:

I like The Torch Thieves, as someone suggested.

Mindthief:
Name: Nourishing Peaches, after the rat in Terry Pratchett's The Amazing Maurice and his Educated Rodents
PQ: The Fall of Man. I dunno when we'll get around to the Lingering Swamp, but this is a fun quest. Also both of these classes can be unlocked by reputation, Eclipse at -10 and Sunburst at 10 (it's in the rulebook!), so if we've already decided to be villains or heroes, the Mindthief should pick the opposite PQ.

Cragheart:
Name: Sergeant Detritus, also from Terry Pratchett, and a name I find very fitting for the class
PQ: Goliath Toppler; we already have three ways to unlock the Sunburst class on the table, so we'll probably find a way.

Brute:
Name: Gompers; I can't think of any prominent goats in Pratchett, but the Inox are goat people and thus should have goat names.
PQ: Zealot of the Blood God is a really fun PQ which promotes a playstyle that's very much against the mindset of a lot of GH players, and I think the Brute is the best candidate for it in this party, so it'd be a shame not to take it.

City Event:
It'd be fun to play an evil party, but our Mindthief is potentially working towards the Eclipse class already. So, Option A.

I agree with everything here, and came to it all via the same logic. So yeah, what they said.

(Names are fine too)

# ¿ Dec 20, 2018 13:47

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 09:54

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

I agree with Piell's item suggestions, if I have a say. The Brute's Hide Armor can wait until after he gets his first perk.

Road event - I have not encountered this one. Save the puppy! Everyone loves puppies!

Cragheart Advice - yes focus on ranged attacks. Backup Ammo is one of the best L1/X cards in the game, and it combos beautifully with both Forceful Storm and Massive Boulder.

# ¿ Dec 21, 2018 15:47

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Zurai posted:

Please, please bring The Mind's Weakness. All of your other cards pretty much assume you're getting that +2 damage.

I have read a houserule idea that's basically... Increase all the Mindthief's melee attack values by 1, and reduce Mind's Weakness to a +1 bonus.

But I am guessing we don't want to try out houserules in this let's play.

# ¿ Dec 21, 2018 15:49

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Fat Samurai posted:

I understand the intent of having the session end as soon as the objective is accomplished, but giving incentives to the players to "game" the enemies this way is one of the few problems I have with Gloomhaven. We usually just eyeball the last couple of turns unless it's down to the wire (or a chest, because those are nice surprises).

Not saying that the players shouldn't try to hoover every last coin and milk every last enemy, of course, just general whining about the game and it's mechanics.

I kinda like it this way - it's a nice 'victory lap' when you completely demolish a scenario, and it's a good sign that you may want to up the difficulty on the next one.

# ¿ Jan 2, 2019 20:16

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Reik posted:

Iron Helmet or Minor Healing Potion? Iron Helmet will help prevent damage spikes, but I think a Minor Healing Potion will provide more benefit on average.

He already has a stamina potion, so a second potion will have to wait until Level 3.

# ¿ Jan 3, 2019 16:09

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Yeah, an iron helm was among my new Sun Class's first purchases.

For anyone who takes a bunch of attacks, it's priceless.

My cragheart had it, and it saved my bacon a few times. But for a ranged build cragheart, eagle eye is probably better if you're using Backup Ammo. You shouldn't get attacked as much as a front-liner, you have the HP for a stray crit once in a while, and an Advantaged 4-target Forceful Storm is just wonderful.

# ¿ Jan 3, 2019 16:33

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Speaking of - if it's the clockwork dungeon, I won't want to spoil myself and will have to sit out from the thread until it's over. This is fine - it's inevitable at some point - but I'm still trying to avoid spoilers.

# ¿ Jan 4, 2019 06:57

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

It's still 2 blessings.

# ¿ Jan 4, 2019 15:28

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

I never, ever eat berries.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2019 17:20

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Battle goals are designed so you usually have to be a bit (or a lot) selfish. Open that poo poo up, dude!

# ¿ Jan 8, 2019 01:24

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Zurai posted:

Yeah, playing tower defense with the Cragheart can be pretty fun.

That was every scenario once I hit 4th level.

It trivialized several dungeons which would have otherwise been pretty brutal. Particularly a path of adventures involving a certain retirement goal.

# ¿ Jan 8, 2019 17:27

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

I loved my Cragheart. By level 8, however, I was still mostly firing off Attack 3's, which wasn't keeping up so well with the enemies we were encountering. The true damage and obstacle manipulation, however, were phenomenal.

There's a certain enemy coming up with flying, crazy shields, strong ranged attacks, and a ranged retaliate, and I single-handedly killed most of them through true damage because they just don't have many hp.

I wish I could have seen the level 9 card in action, but when it's time to go... Or enhanced more cards.

# ¿ Jan 15, 2019 19:20

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Zurai posted:

Good point about the lack of high damage single target attacks, I meant to mention that but forgot. I'll edit it into my post.

Yeah it's a weird one, because Craggy doesn't start out behind the curve. If anything, they're way above it, at first - particularly with splashes like Massive Boulder and the invaluable Backup Ammo. Eventually you can get some higher-damage attacks, but they're mostly melee loss cards like Cataclysm or that Level 8 one. The lag started to get really noticeable as I got to 6th or 7th level, when I noticed that Crater and Massive Boulder were still the two best Ranged attacks I had in my deck.

(And I couldn't enhance them because Craggy does not collect money too well, and I needed every penny for my retirement.)

Don't get me wrong, I was still laying down obstacles like a boss, but 2 true damage at a time isn't very much, except against high shield/low hp baddies.

# ¿ Jan 15, 2019 21:15

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Narsham posted:

Depending on how large the group is, picking up a shield can be useful if only to lower the odds of having to lose a card to damage. There are some other viable options for the hand slot but they are all spoilers.

The best insurance against needing to lose a card to damage is, IMO, the Iron Helm.

It's an extremely good, if unsexy, item. The Brute should get one when he can, and it may not be dumb for a mindthief.

# ¿ Jan 24, 2019 19:15

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Dude, we came super close to losing it. My Cragheart was the last one standing.

# ¿ Jan 26, 2019 23:01

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Yeah, anyone on the front lines and expecting to take regular hits should really get the iron helm. It's so good for the price, and like a little insurance policy.

# ¿ Feb 9, 2019 18:18

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Having just played a Cragheart, I took Sentient Growth. I kept it in my deck for a good long time until... Well, until all the numbers were too small. The initiative sucks but that's Craggy for you.

I think it's a good choice here. The top is great with melee allies, and it looks like Rocky is going to need to lean into its support sub-role with the friends it has.

# ¿ Feb 19, 2019 16:39

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Zulily Zoetrope posted:

I'm not sure that's right, at least as I'm reading it. The splash attack doesn't trigger retaliate because it isn't attack, but this reading would also apply to attacks like Dirt Tornado (AoE from a targeted hex) and Explosive Punch (AoE from an adjacent obstacle), both of which would trigger retaliate if Rocky is adjacent to the target.

For any AoE Attack, it's still YOU making the attack. There's nothing at the center of a Dirt Tornado making any attacks, and the exploded rock isn't attacking anyone, itself.

# ¿ Feb 21, 2019 19:31

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Omobono posted:

If I understood correctly, if

1) you draw a modifier card against a target AND
2) you're within retaliation range (after pushes or pulls) AND
3) the target survives the attack

then retaliation damage happens. Did I miss some edge case or does that cover everything?

Except for Summons. Summons draw from your modifier deck, but eat the retaliate, themselves.

# ¿ Feb 21, 2019 22:10

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Unless we're going for a negative reputation campaign - and it's been shaky! - I don't think -1 reputation for a whole 6 gold was even remotely worth it.

# ¿ Mar 12, 2019 15:17

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Wow, those hand/discard sizes are looking pretty dire.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2019 18:52

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Oh I missed that part!

(I have not been paying much attention, sorry.)

# ¿ Apr 8, 2019 19:31

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Narsham posted:

5 cards total at endgame? Looks pretty good to me. If you're playing a 9-card character and have more cards than that at the end of the scenario, you're probably not pulling your weight.

Yeah, that was my bad for not paying attention to how close it was to the end.

# ¿ Apr 9, 2019 01:51

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Don't rush to retire Rocky before he gets really awesome!

Besides that, to hell with Scenario 81.

# ¿ Apr 10, 2019 16:38

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Omobono posted:

Earth demons look like nothing special but the wind demons.
Are those attacks melee or do they get to do that BS at their default range? I see no actual range on the attack card so I want to say melee.

If air is available (timely skewer there) do they attack twice or is that a boost on the attack 2/3 line?

I've forgot, what was the objective here? Murder everything or something more involved?

Wind demons are ... okay. They aren't as bad as fire demons, but they are fast, flying, and annoying. If air is available, they just upgrade their attack pattern to the 6-hex one. (And in case you're wondering, all of them get the boost; it's not just the first one who acts.) And yeah, it's melee; you can tell by the grey hex, which is a "you are here" indicator. It's a signal you should get out of fireball formation if possible.

Earth Demons ramp up fairly fast. At this level, they are just big, dumb, slow-moving bags of HP that can deliver a solid wallop. They're probably the least-scary demons, though. I dunno, Ice may be easier at this level for most characters.

# ¿ Apr 26, 2019 20:38

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Some Numbers posted:

WAIT.

Are you saying that a single charged Air will let BOTH Wind Demons get the boosted attack?

Yeah any time a group of monsters does some kind of fuckery with elements, you do it once and all enemies of that type get the benefit.

If there's a weird situation where, say, two different groups wanted Dark or something, only the first group to eat it gets the benefit unless (lucky you) it gets created again in the meantime.

(Other important note: Demons do a thing where they consume "any element" to create their favorite. The players get to decide which one gets eaten. And yes, you can say they consume the same element they will create.)

# ¿ Apr 26, 2019 22:43

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Can't Bullwinkle eat the air with Skewer before then?

# ¿ Apr 26, 2019 23:00

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Elephant Ambush posted:

Those were my last 2 cards and I was planning on long resting next turn.

Edit: wait poo poo I think you're right. But I can't guarantee I will go before them next turn.

Am I completely misunderstanding? It has up there that you're going at 35 with Skewer and whatever else on this turn. TIG even asked if you wanted to go at 35 or 60whatever

I am not playing and I admit I am bad at reading this format of gameplay so I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding.

dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Apr 26, 2019

# ¿ Apr 26, 2019 23:10

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Rocky should have gotten 4xp that round, right?

# ¿ Apr 27, 2019 16:16

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Zurai posted:

OK. I'm going to throw a temper tantrum for some experience up here and start looting the room one coin at a time because the Cragheart does not have good Loot cards.

Yeah, my first character was a Craggy. His retirement goal was have 200 gold. Now I was not a total spendthrift - I bought blessings fairly regularly - but it nevertheless took me until Level 8.

# ¿ Apr 29, 2019 14:26

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Zurai posted:

Excellent. I'll end up at 12 then. Good thing I didn't have the "earn 13 or more XP this scenario" battle goal! I always struggle with that one. That's one of those which I'm not sure some classes can even really do. EDIT: Cragheart definitely can, I could have easily gotten to 14 if those Cultists had gone before me and summoned their skeletons, but there are other classes who just don't have a lot of great XP options by design.

Cragheart can get halfway there on Forceful Storm and Backup Ammo alone.

# ¿ Apr 29, 2019 20:06

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Some Numbers posted:

I guess we can just skip the chest.

No, no, go ahead, open it

# ¿ Apr 30, 2019 14:00

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Zack Ater posted:

Gotta show off everything for the LP, right?

Everything will be fine, don't listen to these guys, Some Numbers. You should open it.

# ¿ Apr 30, 2019 15:14

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Elephant Ambush posted:

You know what? Screw it. I'll open it after I kill the elite demon.

stop being so greedy and let other people get the chest, you monster

# ¿ Apr 30, 2019 16:31

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

it is a perfectly safe and normal chest containing wondrous treasure why is everyone being so weird about it

# ¿ Apr 30, 2019 16:45

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Zurai posted:

Cragheart is kinda sad for enhancements since you can't enhance initiative or true damage, and enhancing AOE abilities is extremely expensive. Usually you're best off adding movement to the bottom of some of his cards.

Alternatives to Cursenado:

* +1 Move on the bottom of Rumbling Advance can reap dividends.
* Bless/Strengthen on the bottom of Sentient Growth is awesome for your pals
* The bottom of L3 Blunt Force can take a Strengthen Self enhancement, which is fantastic since it effectively lasts two rounds, that way. (And I grew really disenchanted with its competitor, Clear the Way, in general; it was a neat and thematic trick, but it was almost always disappointing in practice due to how difficult it was to usefully position the obstacle afterwards.)
* Either a +1 or (preferably) Wound on top of Massive Boulder is awesome. You keep the card your whole career, so enhance that dude.

dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 21:02 on May 7, 2019

# ¿ May 7, 2019 20:59

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Rocky Card: Look, CtW owns, thematically; it's the kind of thing you want a Cragheart to do. For those reasons, it's what I took when I played a Cragheart. But if I played another Crag, I would not take it again, because in 3+ player, the positioning requirements are awful. It also - the worst crime - sucks up charges of Backup Ammunition for no benefit. For every scenario it was fun, it sucked for two or three other ones. And even when it was fun, it was rarely effective.

OTOH, Blunt Force has a good initiative (cragheart fast!), a situational top loss, and a bottom which is basically "Move 2, get 1 xp" until you can enhance it with Strengthen at which point it owns bones.

Rocky: Blunt Force

# ¿ May 8, 2019 14:47

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Reik posted:

Our bottom actions are pretty garbage with Rocky compared to our solid top actions, so I'd value Blunt Force and Sentient Growth higher due to them have good non-loss bottom actions. Since our three strong range attacks are slow, Blunt Force is probably the better option. Also, Retaliate isn't something you want to plan around since monster draw is unpredictable, but a free Retaliate 1 isn't bad.

Oh yeah, Sentient Growth is still out there too. That's also a good choice. I think Blunt Force has the better upside (better initiative on a slow class, the free XP, and the long-game bonus of adding Strengthen to the bottom) but SG is a good card, too.

# ¿ May 8, 2019 15:46

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Zurai posted:

Clear the Way has middling initiative (actually towards the better end for Craghearts), a high quality top which is our strongest currently available non-loss AOE attack and which also provides utility and a setup to our strongest (but loss) AOE in Explosive Punch, and a bottom which will mostly be used as a default move 2 if at all but has situational upside unlike Blunt Force's bottom.

I mean, it's only a good setup for Explosive Punch until next level, when you get a much better setup for it.

I am only speaking of my own experiences running a Cragheart, and that's that I routinely found CtW disappointing, to the point where it left my deck around Level 6 or so, and was just about always my first lost card on a long rest. The positioning requirements were just not workable in a lot of scenarios - you need to start next to an obstacle, then find a completely empty hex that doesn't block off areas, and then you need enemies to all be standing around that empty spot. And it's only an attack 2 or 3, when Rock Slide is dealing 2 straight. (And since your initiative is really bad, it's very hard to plan around; the odds are good some of the monsters will move before you get a chance to throw that rock.) Even if it didn't just eat a charge of Backup Ammo, it didn't work that well.

Maybe it'd be better on 3 than it was for me with 4 players. But my ultimate verdict was that it's not a great card.

(Besides, bringing along fast cards that just move 2 is kind of a Cragheart sub-theme

)

e: Don't get me wrong, when CtW works, it's hilarious and thematically awesome. So I do get it. I held onto it for sentimental reasons long after it stopped being useful.

dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 16:12 on May 8, 2019

# ¿ May 8, 2019 16:09

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 09:54

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Good initiative is also extremely helpful for AoE attacks. And it's always better to kill an enemy before it gets to do whatever stuff it was going to do, even at range. (Especially at higher levels when debuffs become a lot more frequent.)

I think a Cragheart would probably take a Move 2/Attack 2 with 0 initiative in a heartbeat. After all, many haul around Unstable Upheaval, and it's just at 13! (In fairness, UU at least has a nice top loss for end of scenario.) Later on, I snagged Meteor for a similar purpose, even though its top is hugely situational.

Getting 2 in an AoE is fine enough, but that's also kind of the default state for as long as Backup Ammo lasts. Getting the obstacle in a useful spot is definitely the dream, but again, I just found Rock Slide to be more reliable and useful, filling a similar niche.

Fair point re: moving obstacles, tho.

With the party comp, I'm actually thinking more and more about Sentient Growth, too, given how the bottom is a quick poison clear, and the top is good when you have melee allies. I still think I'd go Blunt Force with the plan of enhancing it, tho.

# ¿ May 8, 2019 16:56

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